Farang Prince Dies In Thai Jail

[Maestro]

It also reported that the family had paid bail of US$6,000 (€4,667) and then a second payment of €5,000 (US$6,430), without securing his release.

I filed that under “false newspaper reports”.

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Maestro

[ColPyat]

He became ill on Aug. 5 and (after an unspecified amount of time) a prison doctor found that his blood sugar level was very high due to diabetes and sent him for treatment at the prison hospital, the Thai Foreign Ministry said.

Von Hohenlohe's condition was deemed serious and he was sent for immediate treatment (after four hours) at Nonthawej hospital. The Foreign Ministry said his heart stopped beating and he could not be resuscitated. He was pronounced dead at 2:15 a.m. on Aug. 8.

An autopsy performed at Siriraj Hospital in Bangkok found that von Hohenlohe had died because organs in his body had failed from an infection in the bloodstream related to a lung infection, and ketone buildup from diabetes, the ministry said in a statement.

as stated.. the more information that comes out slowly, the more suspicions...

as well as...the more details we learn, the greater the doubt regarding medical competency...

and also..courts misdeeds mentioned again...

all in all, the black and blue mark around Thailand's eye grows....

sad...

Ahh, yes, when the statement released does not confirm your suspicions, you just follow the old line of not letting the truth spoil a good story and making facts up in line with your argumentation. Did i not post that the official statement is going to disappoint you?

You forgot to mentione in your comments the most important quote:

An autopsy performed at Siriraj Hospital in Bangkok found that von Hohenlohe had died because organs in his body had failed from an infection in the bloodstream related to a lung infection, and ketone buildup from diabetes, the ministry said in a statement.

which does confirm my earlier statement of the cause of death.

You still spread the rumour of the timelag between him falling sick and being treated. I can explain you how this rumour came along: this statement brought in one of the Italian newspapers was based on the interview with the family. At that point of time the family knew very little of what happened, and has misunderstood the timeframe from when he was found sick in his cell, brough to the prison hospital, and then after about 4 hours was transferred to the Nonthavej Hospital.

This misunderstanding was though cleared up immediately, as soon as access was granted to the Prison Hospital. Unfortunately though this misunderstanding still appears to feed the fanatsies of people who have an appearant need to see a conspiracy where there is none.

He was treated immediately, in the Prison Hospital. You state your suspicions about the competence of the doctors in the Prison Hospital (which is slander), and you have stated that the prison hospital is not a modern facility.

You are wrong in both points. The Prison Hospital is a very modern facility, as can anyone who has ever been allowed behind the walls can confirm. You might also ask for one of their brochures, in which there are pictures and explanations about their facilities.

The doctors and nursing staff have done what they could, have administered the correct measures after having made the proper tests. And have sent him to a better facility when no improvement happened, in due time.

I am getting very tired and bored with this debate. I have tried my best to communicate realities here, i hope that at least some here have been able to draw some benefit out of my postings.

Edited September 3, 2006 by ColPyat

[sriracha john]

He became ill on Aug. 5 and (after an unspecified amount of time) a prison doctor found that his blood sugar level was very high due to diabetes and sent him for treatment at the prison hospital, the Thai Foreign Ministry said.

Von Hohenlohe's condition was deemed serious and he was sent for immediate treatment (after four hours) at Nonthawej hospital. The Foreign Ministry said his heart stopped beating and he could not be resuscitated. He was pronounced dead at 2:15 a.m. on Aug. 8.

An autopsy performed at Siriraj Hospital in Bangkok found that von Hohenlohe had died because organs in his body had failed from an infection in the bloodstream related to a lung infection, and ketone buildup from diabetes, the ministry said in a statement.

as stated.. the more information that comes out slowly, the more suspicions...

as well as...the more details we learn, the greater the doubt regarding medical competency...

and also..courts misdeeds mentioned again...

all in all, the black and blue mark around Thailand's eye grows....

sad...

Ahh, yes, when the statement released does not confirm your suspicions, you just follow the old line of not letting the truth spoil a good story and making facts up in line with your argumentation. Did i not post that the official statement is going to disappoint you?

The statement is incomplete. It doesn't specify any timeframes, I only added what had been printed in the press elsewhere and what you have told us. In no way does it NOT confirm my suspicions. My disappointment with the official statement is that it is incomplete and unspecific.

You forgot to mentione in your comments the most important quote:

An autopsy performed at Siriraj Hospital in Bangkok found that von Hohenlohe had died because organs in his body had failed from an infection in the bloodstream related to a lung infection, and ketone buildup from diabetes, the ministry said in a statement.

which does confirm my earlier statement of the cause of death.

Cause of death has never really been at issue as far I'm concerned. My concerns have centered on how he came to die, not what he died from.

You still spread the rumour of the timelag between him falling sick and being treated. I can explain you how this rumour came along: this statement brought in one of the Italian newspapers was based on the interview with the family. At that point of time the family knew very little of what happened, and has misunderstood the timeframe from when he was found sick in his cell, brough to the prison hospital, and then after about 4 hours was transferred to the Nonthavej Hospital.

This misunderstanding was though cleared up immediately, as soon as access was granted to the Prison Hospital. Unfortunately though this misunderstanding still appears to feed the fanatsies of people who have an appearant need to see a conspiracy where there is none.

Do you know how to stop a rumor? It's by clearly stating a fact. They never said how long he was left untreated before being brought to medical attention. How long was it? I've asked before and never received a specific answer. I'm not spreading rumors, I'm going by news reports that until NOW have gone uncontested by any official statements. I'm also not fantasizing about any conspiracy. Until the official statement, not yours btw, becomes much more specific, the wrong-doings of those in control of the situation will be suspect....also, you shouldn't talk to me in such a flaming manner, otherwise this might have to be reported to a mod.

He was treated immediately, in the Prison Hospital. You state your suspicions about the competence of the doctors in the Prison Hospital (which is slander), and you have stated that the prison hospital is not a modern facility.

You need to look up the defiinition of slander as voicing suspicions and doubts about someone or something's competency based upon available information is not slander. btw, accusing me of slander is further flaming. I'm surprised that someone as sensitive as you are to others what you have said was flaming you in separate threads could be so brutal.

You are wrong in both points. The Prison Hospital is a very modern facility, as can anyone who has ever been allowed behind the walls can confirm. You might also ask for one of their brochures, in which there are pictures and explanations about their facilities.

The doctors and nursing staff have done what they could, have administered the correct measures after having made the proper tests. And have sent him to a better facility when no improvement happened, in due time.

I am getting very tired and bored with this debate. I have tried my best to communicate realities here, i hope that at least some here have been able to draw some benefit out of my postings.

Your communications actually have generated more concerns regarding the timeline of events. That, coupled with the very general, undetailed official statement, raises more doubts and creates more questions. That, actually, is a good thing as it highlights how this whole situation surrounding the Prince's death has developed. What has been missing since Day 1 is transparency and openness.

[ColPyat]

Your communications actually have generated more concerns regarding the timeline of events. That, coupled with the very general, undetailed official statement, raises more doubts and creates more questions. That, actually, is a good thing as it highlights how this whole situation surrounding the Prince's death has developed. What has been missing since Day 1 is transparency and openness.

Whatever.

What i have posted here is most likely as factual, detailed, transparant and open as you will ever get to hear, or read about the circumstances of the death of the Prince.

That leaves you no other option than learning to live with it as one of the mysteries that will never be solved (in your mind).

As far as i am concerned, there are only a few minor details left to be found out.

And i would be interested to know if the responsible judge will get shafted, which i don't think, nor do i think that i would be able to find out if that would be the case.

[jdinasia]

[sriracha john]

Notwithstanding your "spokesman" role, I seriously doubt if we have heard the last regarding the Prince's death. He was too important and too much has been made of it already to compeletely sweep it under the rug at this point.

The stonewalling of information by the government only inspires others to dig further. I, for one, am hopeful that more specified details will come out. The family and the general public both deserve that.

[ColPyat]

Notwithstanding your "spokesman" role, I seriously doubt if we have heard the last regarding the Prince's death. He was too important and too much has been made of it already to compeletely sweep it under the rug at this point.

The stonewalling of information by the government only inspires others to dig further. I, for one, am hopeful that more specified details will come out. The family and the general public both deserve that.

You won't have heard the last, i know that for a fact.

But as much as you would like to - you will not hear any new and revolutionary revelations either - what you are going to hear will not differ much from what you have read already. Simply because there is nothing to find out along the line you suggest.

Only one exception would be if Pramuan and the opposition are going to use and distort the case as part of their own agenda. Which i doubt though as there are far more important issues they can dig themselves into.

Face it - regarding national and international importance - this case is yesterday's news, that concerning all interested parties has been sufficiently solved.

[lung]

It also reported that the family had paid bail of US$6,000 (€4,667) and then a second payment of €5,000 (US$6,430), without securing his release.

I filed that under “false newspaper reports”.

--------------

Maestro

r u shure ??

for a half mill baht things can happen quickly.

i listen they give him some "extra"...

but... who know's

Edited September 3, 2006 by lung

[sriracha john]

Notwithstanding your assurances, I guess we'll just have to wait and see how things develop. Hopefully, specifics on the timeline will be compiled, verified, and released.... otherwise it just becomes another unexamined and unexplained death in Thailand, further eroding the credibility of the government.

If there's nothing to hide, it stands to reason that the details should be released.

I wasn't aware that the Prince's family, who I would certainly classify as "an interested party" had accepted the half-sheet-long "official statement" as meaning that the case was sufficient solved.

[A_Traveller]

Looking at the postings herein, and in other similar threads, it seems clear to me that most post more in sorrow and disappointment, rather than anger. I respectfully suggest those who comment upon them to note this.

Firstly, whilst the bench may be questioned about why the Prince was placed in custody during 'investigation' I find it difficult to understand why they should be held responsible for the standard of care of the individual whilst being held as they instructed.

The bail claim, which is sourced back to a report from, I think, an Italian newspaper is at the very least troubling, if it is in error then one would expect a forceful rebuttal of such by the authorities.

Moving on to the AP report, which it is assumed is based upon a formal authoritative press release endeavours to describe the events leading to the tragic demise of the Prince. In doing so however, it raises further questions and creates some confusion.

The statement says that the Prince died because organs in his body had failed from an infection in the bloodstream related to a lung infection, and ketone build-up from diabetes, and earlier that he fell ill on August 5.

One cannot but note the order of the causes, which places the pulmonary infection led organ failure as the primary and the kerone build-up as a secondary.

To be fair here, I can see a set of circumstances which could lead to this unfortunate nexus of events

a} the Prince's energy consumption was too low for a period of time {he was supposed to be at a 'health resort' immediately prior to his incarceration}

b} that a side effect of this could be to increase his risk of infection {air borne whilst on remand?}

c} the combination of the infection, the stress of the situation, and the apparently undiagnosed diabetic condition lead to a deterioration of the Prince's health during his period in custody.

d} this deterioration was untreated until it reached a stage where it became effectively life threatening and indeed ultimately terminal

Now I am, to the best of my knowledge, not a diabetic, so my understanding of the kerone build-up and its associated symptoms is based upon research. I would welcome anyone who is subject to this condition, or suitably medically qualified, to correct any errors or omissions that their maybe herein.

My understanding is that the production of kerone is caused by the breakdown of body fat being utilised for energy. This is somewhat an oversimplification but for this discussion conveys the key elements. In other words if a person is not getting sufficient energy by intake the body uses stored energy, both from fat and muscle. Provided the body is functioning normally these toxins are removed by natural processes, however, an individual with diabetes [Types ?] may be unable to deal with the kerone so produced, without medication.

Symptoms of this poisonous build up include nausea and vomiting, leading to a loss of water from the body, stomach pains, as well as, deep and rapid breathing. This process is called Ketoacidosis which usually starts slowly and builds up. Additional indicators include flushing of the face, dry skin and mouth, a fruity breath odour, with a a rapid and weak pulse combined with low blood pressure.

All this, remember, relating to the secondary, according to the release, cause of death.

Now I cannot say how long the primary and secondary symptoms would display themselves before the condition reached a tipping point where the chances of recovery are being reduced effectively exponentially. However, it would seem odd to me if this set of symptoms only manifested themselves in the last few hours. Again I must restate I'm not a clinician so if this paragraph is clinically in error then it should be elided without prejudice.

It is to be hoped that a clearer picture will emerge sooner rather than later, so that this unfortunate case can be more fully understood.

Regards

[lukamar]

1:-The statement says that the Prince died because organs in his body had failed from an infection in the bloodstream related to a lung infection, and ketone build-up from diabetes, and earlier that he fell ill on August 5.

2:-One cannot but note the order of the causes, which places the pulmonary infection led organ failure as the primary and the kerone build-up as a secondary.

3:-Symptoms of this poisonous build up include nausea and vomiting, leading to a loss of water from the body, stomach pains, as well as, deep and rapid breathing. This process is called Ketoacidosis

4:-Now I cannot say how long the primary and secondary symptoms would display themselves before the condition reached a tipping point where the chances of recovery are being reduced effectively exponentially. However, it would seem odd to me if this set of symptoms only manifested themselves in the last few hours.

1:- Organ failure is the number one cause of death, usually brought on by another cause. IE:- you don't die of cancer, you die of organ failure brought on by complications of your cancer.

2:- Septic shock is the more life threatening of the two conditions. The diabetes/acidosis can be handled quite easily under normal conditions, this may not have been the case here with other contributing and probably worsening health factors.

3:- Most symptoms of septic shock mirror those of diabetic shock and visa versa. The diabetic shock was probably discovered first and treated quite rapidly. Probably a CBC, Complete Blood Count, would have been done, if they had the facilities to do it in the prison hospital or the specimen would have been sent out to a lab. They would have received the results sometime after that, a 1/2 hour to ????, depending on where they were done. If in an outside lab the results would have been phoned to the prison. Once the results were received from the lab he was probably put on high dose antibiotics, Cefazolin as I previously stated because of it's strength and wide range coverage. Only then he would have been prepped for transfer because the prison probably does not have the diagnostic equipment to treat an severe infection problem. We know that it turned out to be a lung infection but you have to be fair to the treating physician on duty as he would not have known even a part of what we know now. It's always easy to look back at a problem or death and pick it apart, especially when you are not the one that had to figure out the mystery in the first place. That's why hospital M&M committees are always held behind closed doors.

4:- The onset of both conditions can be very rapid and often abrupt.

[Maestro]

The bail claim, which is sourced back to a report from, I think, an Italian newspaper is at the very least troubling, if it is in error then one would expect a forceful rebuttal of such by the authorities.

I think it is expecting too much that Thai authorities should rebut an erroneous report in an Italian newspaper, or that they should even read Italian newspapers.

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Maestro

[meemiathai]

3:- Most symptoms of septic shock mirror those of diabetic shock and visa versa. The diabetic shock was probably discovered first and treated quite rapidly. Probably a CBC, Complete Blood Count, would have been done, if they had the facilities to do it in the prison hospital or the specimen would have been sent out to a lab. They would have received the results sometime after that, a 1/2 hour to ????, depending on where they were done. If in an outside lab the results would have been phoned to the prison. Once the results were received from the lab he was probably put on high dose antibiotics, Cefazolin as I previously stated because of it's strength and wide range coverage. Only then he would have been prepped for transfer because the prison probably does not have the diagnostic equipment to treat an severe infection problem. We know that it turned out to be a lung infection but you have to be fair to the treating physician on duty as he would not have known even a part of what we know now. It's always easy to look back at a problem or death and pick it apart, especially when you are not the one that had to figure out the mystery in the first place. That's why hospital M&M committees are always held behind closed doors.

SEE!!!!!

And this is exactly what is happening here every bloody time there has been a problem!

So many people saying they should've done this they should've done that....

We wouldn't have needed any firemen in this world if things in reality were as simple as that!

Accidents would never have occurred!

[sriracha john]

Actually, we have absolutely no idea what treatment was done and when it was done. We've only been provided with rough timetables that, on their own, are suspect and leads to questions of comptency.

What we DO know, is the final outcome of these actions, and that was the Prince died.

Doctors do make mistakes... and people die... and ideally, those doctors are removed from their profession. Were mistakes made in this case? We don't know yet as we have yet to discover what they specifically did.

If they did no wrong, the best defense against any suspicions are an open and honest disclosure of what they did, not what we think they did.

[lukamar]

Actually, we have absolutely no idea what treatment was done and when it was done. We've only been provided with rough timetables that, on their own, are suspect and leads to questions of comptency.

If you knew anything about standard medical treatment, you already know that the diabetes was treated first, as it is the easiest to diagnose and the infection, probably with Cefazolin, was treated secondarily. Competency was probably never an issue or he would not have survived to be transfered.

What we DO know, is the final outcome of these actions, and that was the Prince died.

You are totally incorrect. He died from organ failure brought on by complications of an acute infection, septic shock, not the outcome of an action taken to save his life.

Doctors do make mistakes... and people die... and ideally, those doctors are removed from their profession. Were mistakes made in this case? We don't know yet as we have yet to discover what they specifically did.

You really have a thorn up your butt about the medical profession. What happened to you that makes you so skeptical of their proficiency? This was a case of multiple life threatening traumas, something not dwelled on in medical school or short student ER rotations. A good ER specialist would be hard pressed to get this guy stable. This doctor may have had other things to do than sit back and sip on his coffee, chase the nursing staff and look after the prince. Possibly the prince was triaged behind others, who were deemed more able to survive, and they don't want that brought out or the hospital may have been full, who knows, we don't. You are just too quick on the trigger to shoot the attending physician. Your comments have been slanderous and libelous throughout this thread, it would be interesting if the Doctor in question read this and sued you, and I'll bet his lawyer wouldn't be incompetent..

If they did no wrong, the best defense against any suspicions are an open and honest disclosure of what they did, not what we think they did.

John it's Thailand. Things take time, if they get done at all.

Edited September 4, 2006 by lukamar

[sriracha john]

Actually, we have absolutely no idea what treatment was done and when it was done. We've only been provided with rough timetables that, on their own, are suspect and leads to questions of comptency.

If you knew anything about standard medical treatment, you already know that the diabetes was treated first, as it is the easiest to diagnose and the infection, probably with Cefazolin, was treated secondarily. Competency was probably never an issue or he would not have survived to be transfered.

Without his medical records, we have no idea what problem was diagnosed first, second, or third and when they were determined. We don't know what treatments he was given and when they were given. Therefore, we don't know whether competency is an issue or not.

What we DO know, is the final outcome of these actions, and that was the Prince died.

You are totally incorrect. He died from organ failure brought on by complications of an acute infection, septic shock, not the outcome of an action taken to save his life.

Again, without full disclosure, we don't know what and when actions were taken and whether or not a different course of actions would have affected the outcome.

Doctors do make mistakes... and people die... and ideally, those doctors are removed from their profession. Were mistakes made in this case? We don't know yet as we have yet to discover what they specifically did.

You really have a thorn up your butt about the medical profession. What happened to you that makes you so skeptical of their proficiency? This was a case of multiple life threatening traumas, something not dwelled on in medical school or short student ER rotations. A good ER specialist would be hard pressed to get this guy stable. This doctor may have had other things to do than sit back and sip on his coffee, chase the nursing staff and look after the prince. Possibly the prince was triaged behind others, who were deemed more able to survive, and they don't want that brought out or the hospital may have been full, who knows, we don't. You are just too quick on the trigger to shoot the attending physician. Your comments have been slanderous and libelous throughout this thread, it would be interesting if the Doctor in question read this and sued you, and I'll bet his lawyer wouldn't be incompetent..

I have no problems with the medical profession; it's one I'm intimately familiar with. What makes me skeptical is the hidden nature of this case and the lack of disclosure. If the timelines that we have been given are accurate, I question whether a more expedient manner of transferring him to a tertiary care facility would have made a difference in saving his life. Those questions inevitably occur in situations whenever a patient is transferred and the end result is death. Nothing slanderous/libelous about those routine questions and any reputable medical professional with nothing to hide would welcome them. If, as you theorize, the doctor was too preoccupied with other patients or over-whelmed with other tasks, then that should be looked at as well as it indicates a serious lack of professional care with such inadequate staffing.

I'm certainly not expecting this prison hospital to have all the latest equipment and be staffed with highly skilled physicians. The whole point is do they recognize any shortcomings in any of the chain of events that occurred? Did they do a serious review? We don't know. It certainly seems like they are more interested in obfuscation and non-disclosure. Unfortunately, with that atmosphere of concealment, the events are bound to repeat themselves with the same results.

If they did no wrong, the best defense against any suspicions are an open and honest disclosure of what they did, not what we think they did.

John it's Thailand. Things take time, if they get done at all.

Yes, that part is very true. We waited nearly an entire month just to get a brief and inadequate synopsis of events in the form of a short press release.

Edited September 4, 2006 by sriracha john

[lukamar]

1:- Without his medical records, we have no idea what problem was diagnosed first, second, or third and when they were determined. We don't know what treatments he was given and when they were given. Therefore, we don't know whether competency is an issue or not.

2:- I have no problems with the medical profession; it's one I'm intimately familiar with.

1:- You don't need his medical records, you just need to know common procedures, just like the ABC's of a comatose patient, Airway - Breathing - Circulation, before anything else is checked you check those. Hospitals and the medical professionals run on procedures. Diabetic coma is easy to diagnose and treat quickly, Septicemia is not as there are hundreds of underlying causes, some needing surgical intervention.

The diabetic problem would have been found and treated very quickly and the infection found and treated at a later time. If the acidosis was severe, and it was, Insulin replacement would have been given along with fluids and electrolytes, to replace those lost in urination and vomiting, via IV, and only then would the cause of the condition, the underlying infection, be identified and treated.

You keep looking for something that is not there. You cannot shoot the practitioner because the prince was in ill health, 50 and overweight by all reports. Even if the Doctor used extraordinary means to keep the prince alive the outcome probably would have been the same. If he collapsed in a hotel room the maid would have found him dead the next day. Probably being in prison kept him alive for a longer period than would have been the case elsewhere. Would we even be having this prolonged discussion if the headline read, "Prince found dead in his hotel room of diabetic shock", I think not.

2:- BTW:- You are NOT intimately familiar with common medical practices _ See #1 above _ or you would know what I'm talking about, and you do not.

If you want to continue your thinking that a graduate from the Dr.Jekyll School of Medicine works at the prison hospital then go ahead. I can't be bothered trying to explain very common medical practices to you or anyone else that does not want to listen. Anyway you are "intimately familiar" and I shouldn't have to explain this first year stuff to you, should I.... LOL

[sriracha john]

1:- Without his medical records, we have no idea what problem was diagnosed first, second, or third and when they were determined. We don't know what treatments he was given and when they were given. Therefore, we don't know whether competency is an issue or not.

2:- I have no problems with the medical profession; it's one I'm intimately familiar with.

1:- You don't need his medical records, you just need to know common procedures, just like the ABC's of a comatose patient, Airway - Breathing - Circulation, before anything else is checked you check those. Hospitals and the medical professionals run on procedures. Diabetic coma is easy to diagnose and treat quickly, Septicemia is not as there are hundreds of underlying causes, some needing surgical intervention.

*sigh*... we'll try once more for you to see things in an unobstructed manner. Yes, hospitals and medical professionals run on procedures. Have you ever been involved in a situation or heard of one whereby those procedures weren't followed or done so in an improper manner or strayed from in one way or another? Or did every single medical case you've known followed these standard procedures right down the line.... THAT'S why without medical records or specific answers to specific questions, we don't know WHAT they did.

The diabetic problem would have been found and treated very quickly and the infection found and treated at a later time. If the acidosis was severe, and it was, Insulin replacement would have been given along with fluids and electrolytes, to replace those lost in urination and vomiting, via IV, and only then would the cause of the condition, the underlying infection, be identified and treated.

Ordinarily, yes. Do you know for a fact those procedures were done and done in a timely manner??

You keep looking for something that is not there. You cannot shoot the practitioner because the prince was in ill health, 50 and overweight by all reports. Even if the Doctor used extraordinary means to keep the prince alive the outcome probably would have been the same. If he collapsed in a hotel room the maid would have found him dead the next day. Probably being in prison kept him alive for a longer period than would have been the case elsewhere. Would we even be having this prolonged discussion if the headline read, "Prince found dead in his hotel room of diabetic shock", I think not.

I'm looking for something that most definitely is a possibility. As you weren't there, have not seen any of the medical records, I'm amazed at all these conclusions you have come to in that this and that was done for the Prince and done so in a timely manner and done so without error. Your hypothetical has nothing whatsoever to do with what we are discussing. He could have been struck down dead by a tuk-tuk on a walkabout, but that, too, has nothing to do with his dying in the hospital.

2:- BTW:- You are NOT intimately familiar with common medical practices _ See #1 above _ or you would know what I'm talking about, and you do not.

hahahahahaha... careful now, you don't want to be "slandering" and "libelling" me...

I know what's what.. and that's precisely why I'm raising these red flags. Something is very possibly amiss and the authorities' silence just raises these red flags even higher.

If you want to continue your thinking that a graduate from the Dr.Jekyll School of Medicine works at the prison hospital then go ahead. I can't be bothered trying to explain very common medical practices to you or anyone else that does not want to listen.

It's probably best if you did stop. You don't know what they did. You merely state what medical professionals typically do. They are two very different situations. You're wasting your time trying to explain "very common" medical procedures to myself as I know them already, and that's why I'm concerned about this issue in this particular case.

Anyway you are "intimately familiar" and I shouldn't have to explain this first year stuff to you, should I....

No, you don't. I know what should have been done as well. That's not the question. The question is did they do it???????

Edited September 5, 2006 by sriracha john

[lukamar]

hahahahahaha... careful now, you don't want to be "slandering" and "libelling" me...

I know what's what.. and that's precisely why I'm raising these red flags. Something is very possibly amiss and the authorities' silence just raises these red flags even higher.

If you can prove to me and the courts that you have the qualifications then it could be slander, maybe, but you haven't shown anything other than general medical knowledge, that anyone could find with 5 minutes searching Goggle, or the understanding of the basic procedures and timing that would have been normally carried out in a case like this one. If you were indeed in the medical profession then you would know that situations like this are always in flux and trying to put a time on trauma procedures is pointless, it's done when it's done, unless you have a tee time in which case your surgical assistant can close.

I was not there but neither were you. You should explain to us all, in your best medicaleze, what procedures and drugs you would have carried out and used and in what order with the time each one of those procedures would take, from the time he was delivered to the prison hospital until he went through the ER doors at the private one, so that we can better understand your time theory. Don't dance around and change the subject waving flags to distract us. Just give us the goods, your best medical opinion. I'd hold my breath waiting on this, but I'd turn cyanotic. (blue for the medically challenged)

If you are so worried about and think you have important information why don't you go to the police and lay a malpractice complaint. Rather than complaining and theorizing about malpractice by the attending physician and bantering on here about a time-line no one has any idea about but you, do something proactive and complain to the authorities, if you have the qualifications and you think something is amiss, that's the right thing to do, but you won't, you will just be back here with no explanation, just more flag waving with no substance to back it up.

[sriracha john]

hahahahahaha... careful now, you don't want to be "slandering" and "libelling" me...

I know what's what.. and that's precisely why I'm raising these red flags. Something is very possibly amiss and the authorities' silence just raises these red flags even higher.

If you can prove to me and the courts that you have the qualifications then it could be slander, maybe, but you haven't shown anything other than general medical knowledge, that anyone could find with 5 minutes searching Goggle, or the understanding of the basic procedures and timing that would have been normally carried out in a case like this one. If you were indeed in the medical profession then you would know that situations like this are always in flux and trying to put a time on trauma procedures is pointless, it's done when it's done, unless you have a tee time in which case your surgical assistant can close.

I was not there but neither were you. You should explain to us all, in your best medicaleze, what procedures and drugs you would have carried out and used and in what order with the time each one of those procedures would take, from the time he was delivered to the prison hospital until he went through the ER doors at the private one, so that we can better understand your time theory. Don't dance around and change the subject waving flags to distract us. Just give us the goods, your best medical opinion. I'd hold my breath waiting on this, but I'd turn cyanotic. (blue for the medically challenged)

If you are so worried about and think you have important information why don't you go to the police and lay a malpractice complaint. Rather than complaining and theorizing about malpractice by the attending physician and bantering on here about a time-line no one has any idea about but you, do something proactive and complain to the authorities, if you have the qualifications and you think something is amiss, that's the right thing to do, but you won't, you will just be back here with no explanation, just more flag waving with no substance to back it up.

I'm glad you were able to get all that off your chest...

sadly, however, it's completely meaningless and pointless.

We'll all just have to wait for the next update from the authorities next month... or never.

Edited September 5, 2006 by sriracha john

[lukamar]

I'm glad you were able to get all that off your chest...

sadly, however, it's completely meaningless and pointless.

We'll all just have to wait for the next update from the authorities next month... or never.

So we can take it that.... You DO NOT have a professional opinion, nor can you come up with a knowledge base to support your time line conspiracy theory of clinical ineptitude but we did notice you got in some smoke and mirrors before the dancing and flag waving began.

[sriracha john]

I'm glad you were able to get all that off your chest...

sadly, however, it's completely meaningless and pointless.

We'll all just have to wait for the next update from the authorities next month... or never.

So we can take it that.... You DO NOT have a professional opinion, nor can you come up with a knowledge base to support your time line conspiracy theory of clinical ineptitude but we did notice you got in some smoke and mirrors before the dancing and flag waving began.

No, we can't take as that at all... it's just pointless to explain what standard, typical protocol procedures are. That's not what the issue is.

The issue, just to clarify for hopefully the last time, is whether or not those standard, typical protocols were followed. To that issue, you don't know the answer, but are guessing they were followed properly and precisely. I have my suspicions they weren't and, yes am "guessing", that they contributed to his death. Is your guess any more valid than mine? Not in the least.

Are we clear? I hope so... I'd hate to think I'm keeping you up late over there.

Edited September 5, 2006 by sriracha john

[architect2006]

I have followed with great interest the discussion about the Prince’s death on this forum. Since we are talking so much about the timeframe I think we should discuss also the fact HOW MUCH time has passed BEFORE the Prince got any attention at all. I mean how long had he lain on his prison cell’s floor BEFORE somebody informed the guards and so on? I remember having read that first everybody thought he might be just “asleep”! This fact as well would be something directly related to his unfortunate death!

[Jai Dee]

Gentlemen... please behave.

[sriracha john]

I have followed with great interest the discussion about the Prince’s death on this forum. Since we are talking so much about the timeframe I think we should discuss also the fact HOW MUCH time has passed BEFORE the Prince got any attention at all. I mean how long had he lain on his prison cell’s floor BEFORE somebody informed the guards and so on? I remember having read that first everybody thought he might be just “asleep”! This fact as well would be something directly related to his unfortunate death!

Absolutely it would, architect, and the delay is a concern I voiced earlier. It's gone unanswered because it is yet another unknown, but it would definitely have an impact on whether he survived or not.

Welcome to the discussion.

[sriracha john]

Second autopsy for Cristoph Hohenlohe

Forensic scientists have carried out a second autopsy on Cristoph Hohenlohe, who died in mysterious circumstances in Thailand recently.

The family, well known in Marbella [spain], presented a denuncia to the courts in the town calling for an investigation into the circumstances of the death, and the new autopsy came on the orders of the Marbella judge.

It’s thought it was carried out some two weeks ago.

typicallyspanish.com

Fri, 08 Sep 2006, 08:27

[lukamar]

Forensic scientists have carried out a second autopsy on Cristoph Hohenlohe, who died in mysterious circumstances in Thailand recently.

What were the results of the autopsy? Different than the one in Thailand?

The circumstances of the princes death are only mysterious to those who don't know the facts in the case.

I'll state this quite categorically now...

"The doctors at the prison hospital and those at Nonthavej Hospital did everything humanly possible to save the princes life. There was no breach of medical protocol and they all acted in a timely manner until 2:15am on Aug 8. when he was non responsive to continued resuscitation attempts and died."

Marbella, Spain is where the family has lived for some time and they have immense power there, of course the court would find in their favor, that's not surprising in the least.

Edited September 8, 2006 by lukamar

[Jai Dee]

As there have been no new developments on this subject, and the latest offerings in this thread contain speculation and unconfirmed (or confidential) sources, I'm putting this subject to bed.

The thread will be re-opened should new developments be announced.

/Closed.