Liability - Who Should Pay for a Broken Lock

[louse1953]

Put his rent up.

[konying]

If the lock was just broken than landlord pays, however if the key broke inside the lock, tenant pays.

Locks sell for 99-599, 99 being for toilet lock.

Reasonably ok lock is 299. Locksmith would charge 250-300.

If this happened after hours, 99.9% sure tenant was drunk to break the key.

Very important to remember, tenant can not do any work without owners approval, even more so when/if tenant expects landlord to pay.

Bottom line OP, tenant pays the full costs.

1. Damage caused by tenant

2. No prior approval sought before work being done

Edited December 16, 2014 by konying

[ttthailand]

Why did the key break ? Was the door or old lock not installed or adjusted correctly? Are you 100% sure the key and lock was operating correctly when you handed over the keys ?

I hate it when a landlord tries to charge you because old warn out things break or need replaced.

I had a guy charge me for a washing machine repair and I (my gf) only used it once and discovered at that time it was broken. My recent landlord tried to charge me for a wooden bathroom door that was bubbling due to moisture damage. I reported it when I first noticed and she blamed it on me before knowing all the facts. Comes to find out the bottom of the door was never sealed and was only plywood so water could get into the wood. Other units had exact same problem. Poor door selection and poor install was not my fault.

Renters sometimes cause damage but landlords are to blame in most cases when items fail. When you try to cut corners and put in cheap Chinese junk it is going to fail and it is your own fault not the renters. Also, why should a renter pay for a light if it fails after a week if moving in.

I also love it when they look at the walls after 3 years and want to charge you for reprinting as the paint has faded or has some finger prints, morons !!! Maintenance is something these people never think about.

I expect the unit to be 100% when I move into it. If it is not it is not my fault if something fails.

[Sviss Geez]

So 1400 Baht would be quite expensive then?

Perhaps someone fitted the new lock for him and there is a tradesman's fee in there and he didn't fit the cheapest (most ineffective) lock on the market?

[konying]

So 1400 Baht would be quite expensive then?

Perhaps someone fitted the new lock for him and there is a tradesman's fee in there and he didn't fit the cheapest (most ineffective) lock on the market?

Or you do not have a single clue on prices ??

[snowgard]

In my 12 years old house are only cheap locks for 180 baht/piece. Works still well and never changed. And never a key was broken in 12 years.

Cheap or expensive, they all easy open.

Kick the door or: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xmy8otagsXc

[thailand49]

Being a license Realtor and managing a large apartment building for 25 years but in the States and owning a apartment unit with my Thai wife which I do all the maintenance for her this is my opinion.

The message and for you to think about for the future is something called " wear and tear " here in Thailand products even the expensive ones are not made the way they are made for the U.S..the cheapest door lock I can buy at a Home depot is better in quality than nearly anything I buy here in Thailand and that goes for the keys! No matter how cheap in the States there is a thing called " Quality control " it does not exist here try getting a refund here!

I have replaced a number of doors locks here a number? and found how cheap they are made by the manufacturer cutting corners by using less metal in the products and even the screws? they strip very easy! and that being said they cut corner to save money knowing no one is checking and how many actually ask for refunds or can even get one. It is a numbers game!

So that being said you can assume your tenant is the blame? It take 5 minutes to get a new lock and 5 minutes to change one! If the lock jams or got stuck anyone of us including yourself wanting to get into your place depending on the time would and might put a little force to the key and if the key is made in Thailand or even a hairline crack it breaks. Would you like being called in the middle of the night for something like this?

If he is a good tenant and do not have a history of stuff breaking in the unit all the time I would just pay the bill or replace it yourself and call it a day! Done this many times accidents does happen and if you nic pick the tenant picks back? is it worth loosing a good tenant put yourself in his place and you will know right away the answer unless you never rented? A month vacancy take a year to regroup the lost? Replace the lock and the old one and see if you can remove the broken key with a snub nose. If you get the key out and have a replacement you might be able to find out why the key broke off! Don't just blame it on the tenant!

I have replaced a number of locks for my Thai tenants and after examining the unit it is made of poor quality many of the latches are hollow so closing the door after a hundred times or so the latch cracks and stick!

You sound like a typical boss,there is no such thing as a 5 minute job.Unless the chippy lives next door,but he still has to get his tools,have a coffee and ciggy and get to the job.

You are right but I'm not chippy? I do not drink coffee or smoke ciggy? I always keep a spare just as I keep a spare of everything that normally breaks, switches, plugs, plumbing parts, etc...all you need is a screw driver, Such maybe not 5 minutes ( I was joking ) but take a metal drill bit and stick it right into the key slot and that will break all the working parts of the handle. Now take a screw driver and remove the latch, take the key pin and stick it into the tiny slot to remove the handle, remove the screws and pull the entire lock off, take new lockset and reverse what you did. Pack up and leave if you smoke and drink coffee do it after replace lock first for your tenant! That is something called customer service!

Edited December 17, 2014 by thailand49

[Xircal]

Keys, particularly house keys, don't just "break off in the lock" without giving some warning like the lock getting stiff.

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you there. I've noticed in the past that in Thailand at least, the quality of the metal used to create house keys is way too soft with the part inserted into the lock breaking off suddenly when turned leaving that section irretrievably stuck inside the lock.

It happened to me once when I came back to an apartment I'd rented and discovered that the keycard wouldn't work. I subsequently inserted the key only to have that snap off when I turned it.

[AlexRRR]

I had to replace a lock on my rental property back in the USA $ 115 for the lock man to come out. a bunch of B.S.

Obviously you used an illegil imigrant and chinese lock.

[bino]

Whenever I move into a new condo, one of the first things I do is change the locks to good quality ones that I have purchased myself. I like the satisfaction and peace of mind that comes with knowing that I have the only set of keys to my home. No previous tenant or nosy landlord is going to be walking into my place without my knowledge. I put the original locks and keys in a bag and re-fit them when I go.

[AlexRRR]

The OWNER is responsible no question about it, things like this do happen doesnt matter if the tennant was carless the key should have been able to handle it, or is it differant that the land lord is a farang?

[Mr Somtam]

Whenever I move into a new condo, one of the first things I do is change the locks to good quality ones that I have purchased myself. I like the satisfaction and peace of mind that comes with knowing that I have the only set of keys to my home. No previous tenant or nosy landlord is going to be walking into my place without my knowledge. I put the original locks and keys in a bag and re-fit them when I go.

Thanks for the tip, really clever, will remember this.

But where do you buy good quality locks, they all look crappy to me at global house/home mart etc. Etc.

[mikebike]

Whenever I move into a new condo, one of the first things I do is change the locks to good quality ones that I have purchased myself. I like the satisfaction and peace of mind that comes with knowing that I have the only set of keys to my home. No previous tenant or nosy landlord is going to be walking into my place without my knowledge. I put the original locks and keys in a bag and re-fit them when I go.

Thanks for the tip, really clever, will remember this.

But where do you buy good quality locks, they all look crappy to me at global house/home mart etc. Etc.

http://www.directtoshop.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/en/directtoshop/home-improvements/yale-ca5807us32d-ss-entrance-knob-p249455

http://www.lazada.co.th/veco-digital-lock-finger-printpasswordmachanical-key-pr-6u2-model-sliver-450321.html

[Gumballl]

If the renter is forced to pay the bill, then when the lease is up, it is quite possible that the renter will take the good lock with him (out of spite or other practical reason), and replace it with the one with the key stuck in it.

The landlord, who has already stated that there is no security deposit attached to the rental agreement, would in the end have to pay for a replacement lock.

I cannot believe the landlord is a 'cheap charlie', but he sure portrays himself as one. Advice to the landlord... next time take care of repairs yourself; don't leave it up to the renter.

[Masud Ali]

Well That clearly depends upon your agreement.And you stated that they are liable for any damages.So it might be their duty to change the lock or repair it.But its your property, tenants does not care about it, so you need to reapir the lock.If they wanted to do so they have done it but they have not this is a clear indication that they are not going to pay for the reapirs.So get a locksmith and pay hm and get your lock repaired.

[blackcab]

You asked for advice from someone who is in the real estate world. I oversee the management of apartment buidlings in Bangkok.

In this situation the tenant pays, including the cost of providing spare keys for the landlord - unless they can prove the key broke through fair wear and tear (bringing us the lock would help - it's fairly easy to see if a key has been abused).

1,400b is at least double the real cost of supplying and fitting the lock - however I wouldn't be surprised if the price was doubled for a foreigner.

[rocketboybkk]

Tenant pays, end of

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[manarak]

My opinion only!

Keys, particularly house keys, don't just "break off in the lock" without giving some warning like the lock getting stiff. The tenant should have noticed and either lubricated the lock or contacted you as the landlord to come and rectify (that would be at your cost).

But since he didn't inform you and then broke the lock, IMHO it's his problem.

If he's a good tenant then perhaps in this case a 50/50 deal would be the way to go?

depends.

I have a lock that always has been a bit hard, and a little Thai girl of 1m49 and 38 Kg managed to break the key in the lock, so I can guarantee breaking the key doesn't take a lot of force.

I would say it's up to the landlord to provide sturdy locks and sturdy keys - I know I could never break the key of my house in Switzerland without using a tool.

Most US-style lockable doorknobs they sell in Thailand are pure crap.