Thai editorial: Chinese barbarians at the boarding gate

[AleG]

I have taught in China and I would like to offer this insight.

Because of the one child policy, we see today a situation that should have been envisaged but was not.

When the Chinese family have a child they will pray for a son to carry on the family name but these days they are not so disappointed if it is a daughter. Either way we see what has become the " Little Emperor" syndrome.

The child is spoiled rotten by the parents and being an only child has never learned how to share of the need to consider others.A parallel can be drawn in the west where young males are raised without a father figure and learn the viciousness of the mother without the counsel of the father. That's why in a brawl there is no longer a knock you down/ pick you up philosophy anymore. Now it is kill first.

If you go to a restaurant in China, many times the children from other tables will come and take food from your table without even thinking to ask.

"young males are raised without a father figure and learn the viciousness of the mother without the counsel of the father."

What the...?

[Tomtomtom69]

It's a cultural thing they mill around and hoard up on the door/gate. What's surprising is the Thai editors referring to the Chinese as "barbarians" in the headline. The Chinese should object fervently to this discriminatory characterization by Thais.

Nah...let the Chinese speak for themselves. Here on ThaiVisa there are too many westerners trying to be spokespersons for what they see are ethnic minorities (when it fact westerners are the ethnic minorities in Asia) based on the concept of western style political correctness.

However, one should realise that political correctness is a fairly alien concept in China and even Thailand. If Chinese people had a problem with this headline they would speak up for themselves but the fact is they rightfully know the difference between barbarian Chinese travellers such as the ones mentioned here and ordinary Chinese travellers and don't let political correctness spoil the world.

Besides, there are enough problems with territorial disputes between China and Japan, China and it's neighbors in the South China Sea and perceived US interference in Chinese domestic matters such as Tibet, Xinjiang (human rights) and other issues - China doesn't need to step on the whole US style political correctness bandwagon. Fortunately, it hasn't and as long as it doesn't become a US style multicultural country with a large percentage of minorities from different parts of the world, perhaps it never will. However, time will tell what kind of society China wants to become.

[Mudlover]

I have taught in China and I would like to offer this insight.

Because of the one child policy, we see today a situation that should have been envisaged but was not.

When the Chinese family have a child they will pray for a son to carry on the family name but these days they are not so disappointed if it is a daughter. Either way we see what has become the " Little Emperor" syndrome.

The child is spoiled rotten by the parents and being an only child has never learned how to share of the need to consider others.A parallel can be drawn in the west where young males are raised without a father figure and learn the viciousness of the mother without the counsel of the father. That's why in a brawl there is no longer a knock you down/ pick you up philosophy anymore. Now it is kill first.

If you go to a restaurant in China, many times the children from other tables will come and take food from your table without even thinking to ask.

Wow. The viciousness of the mother? Misogynistic as well as racist.

The vast majority of my encounters with Chinese people, in China and around the world, have been positive. I have generally found them pleasant and courteous.

Scalding a flight attendant is extreme behaviour, and it is surprising that charges of assault weren't brought against the culprit in Thailand, but barbarism can be found in the behaviour of people of all nations. I've probably been guilty myself in my youth. Never scalded anyone, though.

[lil fluffy clouds]

It's clear that thailand would not punish them, prefering to send them back to the Head Principle.....

Edited December 18, 2014 by lil fluffy clouds

[Tomtomtom69]

^^

You can't really do that with an injury in case you need to back your words up...

Well it's not about getting into a physical fight. i highly doubt most Chinese, even the ones exhibiting provocative behavior would have the guts to get into a fight over something so small, particularly in a foreign country. They wouldn't. The guy was wrong to step on this poster's foot, but he acted like a jerk in the aftermath by not apologizing although I doubt he actually aggravated the situation and felt he was insulted or anything - it was probably a case of mumbling that the poster didn't understand.

Even with a broken foot, I would have used my crutch to tell him to go away or there would be trouble. Of course since I speak Chinese that would be easier for me than for the poster in question who presumably doesn't speak Chinese, but to act like a doormat and let this a**hole just get away with what he did is not on. He became embarrassed after the intervention of the policeman but an apology would have been in order.

In other words, you have to be assertive, not aggressive. I can understand you wouldn't want to offend a local but another foreigner, who cares? But of course my point is you simply stand up for your rights, don't be trodden on but certainly DON'T get into an altercation if it's at all possible, but rather, you just want to let everyone know you are not going to get walked all over.

While I would never ever get into a fight with anyone and I never have, my view is as a guest of the country you are in you should act respectfully towards the locals, first and foremost. When it comes to interactions with other foreigners, you don't want to draw negative attention to yourself either but at the end of the day, if another foreigner ruins your day then it won't have anything to do with the locals and they will almost certainly be sympathetic to your cause.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Tomtomtom69

[lil fluffy clouds]

Why do the Chinese get so excited,i remember on a Cathy pacific flight from HK to Bangkok,they released their seatbelts and where jumping towards the overhead luggage compartments,Omg,this took place about 500 feet in the air before landing,"what's the rush"?

That's the effect of being locked up for a good period of time....

Edited December 18, 2014 by lil fluffy clouds

[davidmann]

let dog out of cage thats been there for long time ,sure he will go mad ,give dog freedom he will never go mad

[aussiesteve63]

It's just been reported on oz news service that a Chinese gentleman on an internal flight in china

Opened the emergency door to get some fresh air

[kkerry]

To even think of ordering hot noodles so you can throw boiling water into the face of a lowly flight attendant... those China people can really think outside the box. Got to give them that.

My reading of all this was they already had their own cup of instant noodles, ordered some hot water so they could eat them while the plane was still climbing, and when they were charged for the water, everything kicked off from there.

[baboon]

It's just been reported on oz news service that a Chinese gentleman on an internal flight in china

Opened the emergency door to get some fresh air

I was under the impression it is impossible to open an aircraft door in flight?

Edited December 18, 2014 by baboon

[Tomtomtom69]

It's clear that thailand would not punish them, prefering to send them back to the Head Principle.....

Thailand doesn't know how to punish people for such actions. It's a Thai thing and only a Thai thing. Pay a fine and be let off the hook and everyone "saves face". In nearly every other country, punishment would be accorded to the law after the individuals were taken to court. Having said that, while I think the Chinese involved in the incident on board the Air Asia flight to Nanjing was despicable and should have been punished by the Thais, the penalty in most countries for such actions would likely involve something like a 6-12 month prison sentence (maybe even less) or perhaps a suspended sentence plus a fine, and being banned from travelling on Air Asia for a period of time, perhaps even life. In extreme cases a no-fly rule would apply, meaning no flying on any airline anywhere in the world, for life. Their behavior was despicable but more desperate than really threatening. Of course everyone else on board, especially the cabin crew and most passengers would have felt their lives were in danger, but in all likelihood the threats to blow up the plane and for the lady to kill herself were empty threats, simply used to draw attention to themselves. While I don't in any way condone their behavior, I think having a breakdown or something like they had is no reason to send them to jail for say 10 years - that would be too much. That's cause they didn't actually do anything other than mildly assault a flight attendant, were disruptive and their threats were likely just hot air. YES they did threaten the safety of the aircraft by being disruptive, but since their actions do NOT constitute a terrorist incident, but rather the actions of some crazed individuals who overreacted, the punishment accorded to them needs to be considered relative to their actions. As I said, the punishments outlined above would most likely be more than enough to make them realise they were WAY out of line.

The difference here was that the Thais, rather than take them to court and decide on a punishment there, decided to extract a random, possibly larger sum of money out of them than would have been demanded from court, and then decided it would be OK to let them fly out of another Air Asia flight the next day, stupidly thinking that it would be safe to place the next flight in jeopardy so soon after the initial incident. Apparently nothing happened on that subsequent flight, but it shows that the Thais don't know how to handle law enforcement procedures when it comes to in-flight incidents.

[aussiesteve63]

From what I can gather it was taxiing as the escape slide was deployed

Edited December 18, 2014 by aussiesteve63

[masuk]

Why do the Chinese get so excited,i remember on a Cathy pacific flight from HK to Bangkok,they released their seatbelts and where jumping towards the overhead luggage compartments,Omg,this took place about 500 feet in the air before landing,"what's the rush"?

It's not only the Chinese who do this. I've been on flights where Asian passengers are up and about as the plane is hurtling towards the airport. The passengers' only thoughts were to be first at the door. Not thinking of what a sudden stop from 200 or 300 km/h might do to them.

[lil fluffy clouds]

The downside of low cost travel,low intelligence travellers

So you think being rich means your intelligent & poor equals low intelligence ? Get real. Just the sort of comment one expects dickheads to make.

I think, but I cant be sure, that he may be refering to the fact that when airfares were pricey, only more dedicated people would be willing to fork out the cost. Now it seems to me that many people travel for more superficial reasons and often just because they can....

[Donnie Brasco]

China is simply survival of the fittest. No more, no less. There's no reason why, these days, it has to be, but that's what China is - for the Chinese. As foreigners, we're often very privileged in China. For instance, I can say that I've experience unparalleled high service levels - I doubt something many Chinese could say. I've also experienced being treated as one of the mass; and I can say who consistently does that - older people.

The self-same older people who are so, so often an embarrassment to their children, but, nonetheless, have brought them up; and are bringing up their grandchildren (as both parents work). You have to feel sorry for older people, having lived through the Cultural Revolution, Long March, etc, but that doesn't make day to day survival of their behaviour particularly easy. They are selfishness personified - it was necessary to survival - and are passing that on inter-generationally. They, often, create the Little Emperor more than the parents; and certainly, if you have their behaviour and a Tiger Mum - watch out for that little eight year old (who may well expect, as his parents may well expect, that at school his backside is wiped by teacher - true example).

Not many know, but Chinese regard those, including traditionally, outside their family and guanxi system as ghosts. They have some slight notion that they're there"ish", perhaps something of a nuisance, and certainly no obligations to them.

If you think the Chinese are bad, try them at home - and, remember, I was privileged. Even some of those older people were fascinated by the idea of a foreigner coming all the way to China and helping. I particularly found that from old men, some of whom would even offer me their bus seat. Old women, another story. Fearsome. If someone elbowed you, kneed you on the bus, you didn't have to look to know it would be an old woman. Ghastly people, who still believe they have to fight every inch of the way for their family, with that thought infiltrating every aspect of their lives. Family justifies everything, even if the event has nothing to do with family.

Anyway, quite a lot of older people have money or have children who have - children who, increasingly, disfavour the Chinese stay at home approach to holidays. They want to travel. They often take parents with them. Sometimes, it's the other way around, if it's the parents who have the money. There's still, though, a fearfulness about travel and certainly a worry about making your own travel arrangements (and, sometimes, it's difficult in terms of visas) - which brings us to the fiendish Chinese tour group, composed mostly of older people, often of women (as more adventurous than men) and sometimes with their daughters. Unbelievable bad behaviour. I've been staying in Chinese hotels for many, many years, but to stay in a Chinese hotel in recent years, seems always to involve arguments over behaviour. The first thing is that the group opens all doors to create a communal area. People occupy the corridor, people shout across from room to room, televsions blare out. Reception is carnage as they check in.

That said, even couples can be bad news at reception, as the male wishes to assert his (new) status in front of partner. Queue? What queue? Push, shove, jostle. Just like the supermarket, in fact. Of course, within bounds you take it, have to. But, I do have a strong sense of boundaries. That can lead to open confrontation, or at least giving as good as you get - and I'm supposed to be innocently shopping or enjoying my holiday.

Now it's these self-same people, except with a little more money, who form the tour groups going abroad. So, if that person felt entitled in that Chinese hotel, how entitled do they feel in this foreign one? What we need to understand , though, is that the rise of the sense of entitlement, notice entitlement with no sense of obligation (as was traditionally the case with those who have money, status), is a global phenomenon this century. That Thai new money, scribbling on the Great Wall, speaks the same language - I'll do exactly what I want, I'm entitled to - as that new Chinese money. And Westerners are, also, not above bad behaviour, either, though things are particularly accented in Asia, through the suddenness of economic development, just how quickly many people arrive with way more money than they could ever have guessed. Culture had no time to adapt - all that happened was the worst characteristics of what was already there were accentuated.

Note that Chinese couples, even the odd single (though not to Japanese proportions) travelling abroad can, simply, be the most delightful, pleasant, self-effacing of people you will ever meet. In fact, I worry for them. Their naivety, lack of life, never mind travel experience, puts them in a weak position. In fact, generally, including at home, where Chinese can be very critical of foreigners, they also seem to trust them way too much.

So the overall conclusion? New money from whatever nation can be terrifying. Any tourist destination should profile the tourists it's trying to attract, way beyond just nationality. So, maybe, Chinese weddings in Thailand, brilliant, but tour groups, wowa. Chinese tour groups, notoriously, spend nothing, anyway.

Thank you for an articulate thorough comment.

I am SOOOO forking bored with these 144 character brainf@rtz and pathetically UNFUNNY tweets from the "brevity (false content, propaganda, ignorance notwithstanding) is the soul of wit" crowd that I no longer pay much attention to them.

And we can add the "pot-kettle" and the "hosted on your own petard" brevities to this list of inanities.

Opinion with out content is just hot air.

I realize it is unrealistic to expect actual information from every commentator, but, hey, thank you again for an informative post.

[mojorison]

It might be useful to distinguish between nouveau riche mainland Chinese and ordinary Taiwanese and Hong Kong citizens.

I have seen appalling behavior from mainland Chinese tourists. I was apprehensive about the behavior I might see on my recent visit to Taiwan.

Without exception, I found the Taiwanese to be friendly and helpful. Strangers in the train station helped me carry my bags up the stairs. A passerby walked nearly a kilometer out of his way to help me find my guesthouse. People queued politely at ticket windows.

Not all Chinese are ruthless monsters of selfishness.

Hong Kong Chinese hate the mainland Chinese... they refer to them as "locusts".

[davejonesbkk]

apologies if these have already been posted

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/1663201/chinese-man-opens-planes-emergency-door-fresh-air-take

http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/664647/women-brawl-over-noisy-baby-hong-kong-bound-flight

and thats just from the last few days!

[lostmebike]

The state-run China Daily said in an editorial that the passengers had tarnished the image of the Chinese people

What image?

[tonbridgebrit]

Don't want to sour relations and turn Thai against Chinese , or they'll never get the Tracks built

The indigenous Thais might start turning against the Chinese who are already here.

Thaksin, Porntip (the forensics woman with the crazy hair) and Abhisit are actually Chinese already in Thailand. And so is the bulk of Thailand's mega-rich.

[tonbridgebrit]

It might be useful to distinguish between nouveau riche mainland Chinese and ordinary Taiwanese and Hong Kong citizens.

I have seen appalling behavior from mainland Chinese tourists. I was apprehensive about the behavior I might see on my recent visit to Taiwan.

Without exception, I found the Taiwanese to be friendly and helpful. Strangers in the train station helped me carry my bags up the stairs. A passerby walked nearly a kilometer out of his way to help me find my guesthouse. People queued politely at ticket windows.

Not all Chinese are ruthless monsters of selfishness.

Hong Kong Chinese hate the mainland Chinese... they refer to them as "locusts".

Those Hong Kong Chinese are a bit odd in their thinking. Yes, some of them don't like the mainland Chinese turning up in Hong Kong.

However, people forget a few points. Loads of Hong Kong men go to China, marry a Chinese woman from China, and then take the woman back to Hong Kong. Basically, maybe Hong Kong people and the Hong Kong government should stop or discourage Hong Kong men taking mainland-Chinese women into Hong Kong.

And also, yes, some Hong Kong people feel that the vast number of visitors from China causes over-crowding and congestion problems. But lets get real, retailers do lots of bussines with main-land visitors. Lots of local retailers will be up in arms if the visitors where to be restricted and reduced in numbers.

[harryfrompattaya]

I have to commend them for at least trying to do something against it.

You have to take what you get America has no problem with high spending high educated Chinese tourist America just gets the higher Class. While Thailand get a class if you can believe lower than the sex-pats in the Great City of Pattaya

[Morakot]

Nothing good will be said in this thread......let me get some popcorn and work on my meditation......

Have you tried these fortune cookies?

[annabel]

I have to commend them for at least trying to do something against it.

+1 ... some people closer to home could learn some lessons from this.

I agree it is nice for the Authorities to try and do something. But if it is anything like they did for the Beijing Olympics, getting the people to learn and queue, then it will not last long. The Chinese people went right back to their normal ways after the Olympic games, pushing in queues and really behaving without any manners and decorum.

I would make them do some training beforehand on queuing along with some of the middle eastern tourists. For the Thai Tourism Authority, I would start redefining what a quality tourist is.

Just about the same behavior in India and Bangladesh and so on......

[ultimate weapon]

Thai tourist behavior in China:

http://www.samuitimes.com/outrage-thai-tourists-vandalising-great-wall-china/

It's ok for thais to deface chinese tourist monuments but not the opposite.

[A1Str8]

Good. Punish the Chinese sh1t out of them.

[KhnomKhnom]

Nothing good will be said in this thread......let me get some popcorn and work on my meditation......

You could copy and paste your statement for all Thaivisa comments.

[Thian]

Yesterday i landed on Don Muang and tried to walk to the immigration. There were loads of chinese groups everywhere and running around like drunk teenagers. It was impossible to avoid them so i decided to just walk my way no matter what.

After 3 seconds a chinese lady run hard into my shoulder, she got hurt and was angry with me. I hoped she learned her lesson.

Those chinese have no idea how to behave in public and show no respect at all for other travellers.

Also they tried to push me away at the immigration but also that didn't happen. I pushed them back and told them to behave like everybody else in the queue.

What a great idea to invite all those chinese "Quality Tourists", the 7-11 can sell them loads of noodlesoup!!

[adrock212]

I think that those assuming that the one child policy and the "little emperors syndrome" is to blame for apparent Chinese selfishness are missing the fact that the policy was only first introduced in 1979. Therefore all these "selfish" Chinese would be 35 and under. Having travelled to China a number of times I found it to be the older generations i.e 45 and older, that were the most pushy and inconsiderate, particularly in queues. In fact the younger Chinese seemed quite polite and helpful. Most tour groups to Thailand that I have seen are of an older age so I don't see the correlation with the one child policy to be honest.

[Thian]

It is really fun to observe those chinese tourists.

One day i was in a plane full of chinese grouptourists. When dinner was served i asked for another portion which i got. The chinese noticed that and then they all asked for another portion untill all food was finished. Some of them didn't get a 2nd serving and got really angry from that.

But the plane got delayed for take-off because those chinese didn't want to sit down with their seatbelts on.

Also while boarding they were running around like idiots so it took a long time before all passengers had seated.

The older chinese lady's have all painted hair which has been outgrown for weeks. They walk cripple but still wear the sexy tiger-blouse

In Malaysia i didn't see any chinese tourist at all, that's great so we can go there for our own holiday. They can have Thailand and all it's scams and over the top prices.

[chooka]

Why do the Chinese get so excited,i remember on a Cathy pacific flight from HK to Bangkok,they released their seatbelts and where jumping towards the overhead luggage compartments,Omg,this took place about 500 feet in the air before landing,"what's the rush"?

They need to be first and fear being overtaken by others. It is a direct result of the Chinese "win every encounter" philosophy.

Not only the first to get off but they rush and push to be the first on. We were travelling from chiangmai to Bangkok and when boarding a group knocked my 6 yr old over in the isle and just proceeded to step over him, no sorry or is he ok. When I bent down to pick him up I also was nearly knocked over as the remaining group tried to clamber over the top of me. The Thai airways cabin staff were good and and held them up for a moment whilst I picked up our child. The cabin staff copped a bit of a abuse from the Chinese who were pointing to thier friends ahead of them in Isle. I guess they thought they would lose each other on the plane or the flight would leave without them. They got off the plane in the same manner as they got on except no children were hurt in the stampede to get off. My grandfather is Chinese and never known him to act this way. Edited December 19, 2014 by chooka