Why the name change from siam to thailand and why thai land?

[AYJAYDEE]

It is as others have said Siam means Siamese people, the Bangkok and Central Thais.

Thailand encapsulates all the other ethnic races in the Country.

Anyone can be Thai but anyone cannot be Siamese.

they can be thai inhabitants or citizens but not necessarily ethnic thais.

[ATF]

It is as others have said Siam means Siamese people, the Bangkok and Central Thais.

Thailand encapsulates all the other ethnic races in the Country.

Anyone can be Thai but anyone cannot be Siamese.

they can be thai inhabitants or citizens but not necessarily ethnic thais.

Exactly same thing with foreigners calling themselves British. The are not ethnically British but they have a British passport.

[Neeranam]

Thai doesn't mean free - well it does but not in the Thai in thailand - can't explain as can't write Tai on this forum.

[AYJAYDEE]

It is as others have said Siam means Siamese people, the Bangkok and Central Thais.

Thailand encapsulates all the other ethnic races in the Country.

Anyone can be Thai but anyone cannot be Siamese.

they can be thai inhabitants or citizens but not necessarily ethnic thais.

Exactly same thing with foreigners calling themselves British. The are not ethnically British but they have a British passport.

british isnt an ethnicity

[jpinx]

I always thought Thailand was a reference to "South Land"

[ebonykap]

I always thought Thailand was a reference to "South Land"

South in Thai phonetics - dtai, not tai

[ATF]

It is as others have said Siam means Siamese people, the Bangkok and Central Thais.

Thailand encapsulates all the other ethnic races in the Country.

Anyone can be Thai but anyone cannot be Siamese.

they can be thai inhabitants or citizens but not necessarily ethnic thais.

Exactly same thing with foreigners calling themselves British. The are not ethnically British but they have a British passport.

british isnt an ethnicity

Correct. British is a mixture of the different British races but now means anyone with British citizenship.

[vogie]

Many foreigners see the UK as a FREE land

[mgjackson69]

Because not all the people of Siam were Siamese, e.g., Isaan, Lanna, etc. Changing the name to Thailand would create a sense of national unity.

Actually, the change to Thailand made it intentionally less inclusive. Siam could incorporate all ethnic groups whereas Thailand makes it the land of the Thais only. It was creating national unity military style and it was a civilian government that changed it back to Siam before the military intervened again.

That is my understanding also, as it was a way to 'elevate' the Tai people, vs Khmen/Lao/etc.

After the previous coup (2006), there was a minor movement to revert the name of the country back to Siam.

Edited December 20, 2014 by mgjackson69

[khunPer]

Siam was a misunderstanding from when the first Europeans, Portuguese, came to Thailand and asked the elite (Chinese group of people from whom the Kings were elected), from where they came; Xian the said, and the Portuguese wrote it as “Siam” (A History of Thailand, Cambridge University Press, page 8).

The elite people are “Tai”, not to mess with the word thai, the name of the country was (and is again) “Muengnua Thai” (Thai Country), where mueang means city-state, i.e. Country of Free City-states. Timeline is back at Sukhothai period, so late Medival, around 1300; the capital was moved to Ayutthaya in 1351 (same book, page 5-6).

[micmichd]

The majority people in Turkey are actually Kurds, and they are not allowed to speak Kurdish in Turkey.

[Mudcrab]

Siam is derived from the sanskrit Syam which means ' brown people/race'' (or something along those lines)

I suspect this is a folk etymology.

The Sanskrit śyāma does mean black or blackish. However, the initial consonant, ś, is a palatal fricative. The corresponding Thai letter is therefore ศ, so if Siam were derived from the Sanskrit śyāma one would expect it to be spelled ศยาม and not สยาม with the dental fricative ส.

Ah I see...the Land of the Friccing Dentists.

No wonder people come from all over for teeth work.

[thhMan]

Freedom from law.. common sense.. etc...

At least that what it seems like at times...

[bangon04]

"There is another country that does espouse values such as freedom like America yet they don't call their country free land which sounds rather corny to be honest"

maybe the OP has never sat through the dirge which passes for the US national anthem... but if he did, he might hear the "corny" line - "land of the free" In fact it is often a high note of the song....

Edited December 20, 2014 by bangon04

[DoctorB]

One of the amusing ironies of geography is that when a country adopts politically correct terms into its name it is usually to cover up the fact that it tends to the opposite.

Thus if a country call itself "The Popular Democratic Republic of X" its rulers will be usually be neither popular nor democratic and the country better named as "The Hated Dictatorship of X".

A good example is The Peoples Republic of China; it may be a republic and mostly Chinese but the people count for little; its government is for the benefit of a tiny Party elite. Likewise the unlamented former German Democratic Republic had one of the most repressive regimes of the 20th century.

Thus the name Thailand (Land of the Free) is entirely appropriate for a country that since the abolition of the absolute monarchy has had more military dictatorships than democratically elected governments. Incidentally, I have spoken to a number of Thais who have said they would be only too happy for a return to the historic name Siam.

Edited December 20, 2014 by DoctorB

[nisakiman]

Many foreigners see the UK as a FREE land

Unfortunately many foreigners would be wrong. Britain (or to be more accurate, the political elite in UK) have turned what was a relatively free country into what is fast approaching a totalitarian state. Whereas a few decades ago one was only constrained by what was specifically forbidden in law, it is now becoming a situation where you can only do (or say) what is specifically allowed. There is no longer any democratic accountability. Laws are rammed through without any public consultation - single-issue lobby groups, bureaucrats and quangos dictate what becomes law, regardless of what the demos might feel about it.

One of the amusing ironies of geography is that when a country adopts politically correct terms into its name it is usually to cover up the fact that it tends to the opposite.

A good example of this is a country which was formed about the same time as Siam became Thailand, when the British relinquished India and it split into India and Pakistan.

Pakistan means 'land of the pure'....

[aTomsLife]

I have spoken to a number of Thais who have said they would be only too happy for a return to the historic name Siam.

I've heard the same, from central Thais that is.

The "Thais" you've spoken to wouldn't happen to all be historically Siamese, too, would they?

[dotpoom]

Whenever a poser like this comes up I ask my good lady. So I just asked her what does the Thai word "thai" mean...I got the usual answer...Mi-loo. I asked her what is the Thai word for "free" or "freedom"...she rattled off something that was a million miles from the word "thai". I come across this a lot. I could ask 20 Thai people what a certain word means and get 20 different answers. I also sometimes ask Thai people what a word I hear regularly in use means...and a lot of the time i get "Mi-loo" again. Kinda puzzles me how people use a word a lot of the time and don't actually know what it means. One I have been trying to find a meaning for is "Na"....as in "Na-Krap". I have never met a Thai person who can tell me what the "Na" means even though is used a million times a day by many people?

[aTomsLife]

Whenever a poser like this comes up I ask my good lady. So I just asked her what does the Thai word "thai" mean...I got the usual answer...Mi-loo. I asked her what is the Thai word for "free" or "freedom"...she rattled off something that was a million miles from the word "thai". I come across this a lot. I could ask 20 Thai people what a certain word means and get 20 different answers. I also sometimes ask Thai people what a word I hear regularly in use means...and a lot of the time i get "Mi-loo" again. Kinda puzzles me how people use a word a lot of the time and don't actually know what it means. One I have been trying to find a meaning for is "Na"....as in "Na-Krap". I have never met a Thai person who can tell me what the "Na" means even though is used a million times a day by many people?

Maybe they just don't know how to describe what you're asking in English.

"Na" is just a polite particle, to soften a statement that might otherwise sound harsh, or simply to show deference to the listener. It has no translatable meaning.

[ATF]

Whenever a poser like this comes up I ask my good lady. So I just asked her what does the Thai word "thai" mean...I got the usual answer...Mi-loo. I asked her what is the Thai word for "free" or "freedom"...she rattled off something that was a million miles from the word "thai". I come across this a lot. I could ask 20 Thai people what a certain word means and get 20 different answers. I also sometimes ask Thai people what a word I hear regularly in use means...and a lot of the time i get "Mi-loo" again. Kinda puzzles me how people use a word a lot of the time and don't actually know what it means. One I have been trying to find a meaning for is "Na"....as in "Na-Krap". I have never met a Thai person who can tell me what the "Na" means even though is used a million times a day by many people?

Thailand means freeland but this is a highly debated topic so don't be serious about it.

Issarapharp means free as in emancipated. Na doesn't have a meaning it's just polite to add it.

[HerbalEd]

What a bore. Who the <deleted> are you to judge what the people of Thailand choose to call their country. Do you realize how smug and judgmental you sound?

BTW, you can't translate Thai ... and most other languages ... literally into English. Thus the translation is more like "land of the free."

Also, if you'd bother to do some research, you'd know that Thailand is the only country in South & SE Asia that was never colonized by a European power. That sounds like "land of the free" to me.

[aTomsLife]

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it means land of the free AND land of the thai people. makes perfect sense as it is the land of thai people AND it has remained free from colonialism.

Isn't thai = free? Therefore why would siam be changed to thailand aka freeland? Ok free from colnialism. That's right after all during that period surround countries were colonized so i suppose the country was called free land to show how it's free from wester colonialism am i correct?

What a bore. Who the f___ are you to judge what the people of Thailand choose to call their country. Do you realize how smug and judgmental you sound?

BTW, you can't translate Thai ... and most other languages ... literally into English. Thus the translation is more like "land of the free."

Also, if you'd bother to do some research, you'd know that Thailand is the only country in South & SE Asia that was never colonized by a European power. That sounds like "land of the free" to me.

Hey H.Ed, if you'd bothered to do some research--as in read down to a whopping post #4--you'd have seen that the OP acknowledged the point you (re)introduced into the discussion.

Still, all in all, 50 posts before someone came in slinging mud--that's rather excellent for TV.

[ATF]

Thailand has never been colonized but it has been occupied by the Japanese, British and Americans.

[aTomsLife]

Thailand has never been colonized but it has been occupied by the Japanese, British and Americans.

Isn't that apples and oranges, though?

[ATF]

Thailand has never been colonized but it has been occupied by the Japanese, British and Americans.

Isn't that apples and oranges, though?

It means that Thailand lost sovereign control of the Country during WWII but the foreign powers never had enough time to impose their laws, culture and control of the people. Even though this period occupation was limited to mainly Bangkok and the surrounding areas, the whole Country was never under full occupation.

[Gentmartin]

and why

Siamese cat ?

Siamese twins ?

or Siamese fighting fish ????

The name "siamese twins' is no longer used , its now co joined twins, but anyway..the reason they were called Siamese Twins is because of a famous pair of err Siamese Twins....have a read :-)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chang_and_Eng_Bunker

As for Siamese cat....errr im going to guess, as i cant be arsed googling, that its a cat from thailand area ??.....

Siamese fighting fish, were first named when scientists noticed the males got very jealous and angry when another male flirted with their fish girlfriend and often used weapons and guns to inflict harm upon each other....despite these fish originating from the River Aire in Yorkshire , England, it was decided they should be called Siamese fighting fish :-)

[HerbalEd]

british isnt an ethnicity

Exactly same thing with foreigners calling themselves British. The are not ethnically British but they have a British passport.

Correct. British is a mixture of the different British races but now means anyone with British citizenship.

How can there be "different" British races? If there were a British race ... which there is not ... then they'd all be the same race.

Everyone knows that England is "the land of the Eng." 555

[aTomsLife]

Thailand has never been colonized but it has been occupied by the Japanese, British and Americans.

Isn't that apples and oranges, though?

It means that Thailand lost sovereign control of the Country during WWII but the foreign powers never had enough time to impose their laws, culture and control of the people. Even though this period occupation was limited to mainly Bangkok and the surrounding areas, the whole Country was never under full occupation.

Of the three countries you mentioned, it's only clear that Japan had the intention to colonize. I don't know about England. As for the U.S., we were never officially at war with Thailand and only came to help rid them of the Japanese.

Anyway, not trying to play the part of scholar here. Everything I know on the topic can pretty much be found on Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Thai_Movement

As an aside, the Free Thai Movement certainly explains the U.S.'s favored relations with Thailand when compared to other western powers.

[HerbalEd]

Siam was a misunderstanding from when the first Europeans, Portuguese, came to Thailand and asked the elite (Chinese group of people from whom the Kings were elected), from where they came; Xian the said, and the Portuguese wrote it as “Siam” (A History of Thailand, Cambridge University Press, page 8).

The elite people are “Tai”, not to mess with the word thai, the name of the country was (and is again) “Muengnua Thai” (Thai Country), where mueang means city-state, i.e. Country of Free City-states. Timeline is back at Sukhothai period, so late Medival, around 1300; the capital was moved to Ayutthaya in 1351 (same book, page 5-6).

The "Kings were elected"??

[Chao Lao Beach]

On a related note, look up the fascinating fascist origins of the national noodle dish of Thailand: Pad Thai.

Not finding anything, care to share a link to what ever you are referring to please ?