mamborobert Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 All this talk of corruption...... I am so pleased to see that no TV member initiates an on site fine payment to the BIB after being pulled over for no helmet or license etc. When it becomes a practicality that is enabled or initiated then obviously its not corruption right? As far as the Op is concerned, if you are doing everything legit, and what the other person is manifestly not AND affecting your income that would benefit your family then to me all best are off. You are being affected, you are an involved party, the opinion of TV members should have no sway as we are not involved and not (directly) affected. Your obligations are to your family. Clearly you are concerned about what others think, what is right and have some morals and ethics as this situation you are in causes you a dilemma. But for me every baht that someone takes that should have legitimately and lawfully come to me is taking a baht from the future of my family. As others have said though...CYA. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivinLOS Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Clearly you are concerned about what others think, what is right and have some morals and ethics as this situation you are in causes you a dilemma. But for me every baht that someone takes that should have legitimately and lawfully come to me is taking a baht from the future of my family. As others have said though...CYA. But what is legitimately and lawfully.. To use my example of a bike tour company above.. How many are using a Thai tour guide as non Thais are illegal ?? How many make sure the tourists arriving all have 1 year international drivers permits ?? How many bend the licensing laws, rules as they see fit.. But then feel bent out when someone else sees a different set of rules to bend. The fact is this isnt Switzerland.. None of us came here because we thought it was a well run orderly society governed by strict and impartial applications of the law. If we come here because of the excitement and freewheeling nature of the east, is it not then a little churlish to be bent out of shape by the freewheeling nature of the businesses your competing against ?? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat999 Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Well said mamborobert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mania Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 (edited) If just asking for opinions mine would have to be Let it go You said this is business and the law is being broken . I think you know that if you made a list of all such law breaking occurrences here that affect you directly or even indirectly you would have a task that will last your lifetime. Lets say you go ahead with this...You make your report They visit this "offender" who thru what ever usual gifting system then remains in business? Whats next? Sorry I do not mean to say I promote wrongdoings but after a few years here I will say I accept things are not as I think they should be/similar to where I came from.... but things are the way they are period....In our "Temp" status here we are not the keepers of justice here. Not much more than observers really But good luck to you in what ever you decide. I think a truly good business will succeed even if others have cheated & cheating does not always guarantee success Edited December 21, 2014 by mania 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beetlejuice Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 yes it is directly affecting my business and others , nothing to do with jealousy ... i have no fear of consequences , the person i mention is laughing at the law.... ... i am not the type to go running to authorities at the drop of a hat , however this has gone on far too long and needs to be halted. If you are running a squeaky clean legal business here in Thailand, following the correct procedures under Thai law and have all the documentation to back this up and someone else is running a business illegally that is as you allege, affecting your business and livelihood, then the best method to deal with this is to hire the services of a reputable lawyer to warn the guy off and contact the appropriate authorities if the guy does not heed the warnings and cease and desist his illegal business activities. As I said; in order to proceed you have to be strictly above board yourself, otherwise you may bring a lot of trouble and unwanted attentions upon your self and own activities here. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headgame Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 This is easy. Just consider this person to be a legitimate competitor and operate your business accordingly. The best way to deal with any competitor. Many will say stand up for your rights but the law of unintended consequences will almost always strike you down. This "illegal" competitor will fade away in time Ora TH person will out them. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddhaMind Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 i find many of the answers confusing , i hear farangs constantly complain of how bad the laws are here , how the govt should do this , or do that , back home we do it this way blah blah blah ....how can we criticize the Thai people when we do not lead by example ? And I find that your arrogance makes complete sense, in light of the fact that you... 1. ...like to call foreigners "farang." 2. ...think you need to "lead by example," when that example is a snitch 3. ...think you know someone is "laughing at the law." 4. ...feel "confused" over people offering less emotional/dramatic action. 5. ...have "no fear of consequences" 6. ...reference the all powerful "food off my plate" and affecting "my children's future" lines. Shall I continue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RED21 Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 (edited) Live and let live... Edited December 21, 2014 by RED21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdmtdm Posted December 21, 2014 Author Share Posted December 21, 2014 i find many of the answers confusing , i hear farangs constantly complain of how bad the laws are here , how the govt should do this , or do that , back home we do it this way blah blah blah ....how can we criticize the Thai people when we do not lead by example ? And I find that your arrogance makes complete sense, in light of the fact that you... 1. ...like to call foreigners "farang." 2. ...think you need to "lead by example," when that example is a snitch 3. ...think you know someone is "laughing at the law." 4. ...feel "confused" over people offering less emotional/dramatic action. 5. ...have "no fear of consequences" 6. ...reference the all powerful "food off my plate" and affecting "my children's future" lines. Shall I continue? sure keep going if it makes you feel better ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdmtdm Posted December 21, 2014 Author Share Posted December 21, 2014 i have many options available , having considered them all i guess it gets back to protecting the best interest of my family ..... i can end the problem swiftly ,however the fallout for this individual will be life changing .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherOneAmerican Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Don't be a hater unless it effects you personally. If they are doing wrong karma will catch up to them. yes i believe in karma and def no hate involved ,,,, this is business and the law is being broken . Nobody cares about any laws in Thailand, not even the Thai police. (Unless they can make some money out of it) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beetlejuice Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 i have many options available , having considered them all i guess it gets back to protecting the best interest of my family ..... i can end the problem swiftly ,however the fallout for this individual will be life changing .... What do you mean by this exactly? Are you actually legally running a company yourself? If not than you have no clout of cause for complaint if you do not practice what you preach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briggsy Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 I am familiar with the situation. The farang teachers have a communal marker pen fund. One teacher (let's call him "Bad Boy") has been shafting (= rorting) the fund by expropriating a higher proportion of marker pens for "his company" than would be considered fair and reasonable. cdmtmdmcemd is on to him and has been tailing him and logging his marker pen use. cdmtemdmm now wishes to call in the police on the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdmtdm Posted December 21, 2014 Author Share Posted December 21, 2014 i have many options available , having considered them all i guess it gets back to protecting the best interest of my family ..... i can end the problem swiftly ,however the fallout for this individual will be life changing .... What do you mean by this exactly? Are you actually legally running a company yourself? If not than you have no clout of cause for complaint if you do not practice what you preach. yes of course i am, that is my beef , the other individual is not and its damaging legit companies . as for the part you dont understand , i can do it legally involving lawyers and govt officials or i can do it the Thai way ...however i also have a heart and feel for the huge problem this will cause for the offender .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinneil Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Live and let live. Life is too short.Not many TV members can say that they have never bent the law even a little bit if they situation arose. He who is without sin cast the first stone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uptheos Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Live and let live. Life is too short.Not many TV members can say that they have never bent the law even a little bit if they situation arose. He who is without sin cast the first stone. I would imagine most have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMHomeboy78 Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 I am familiar with the situation. The farang teachers have a communal marker pen fund. One teacher (let's call him "Bad Boy") has been shafting (= rorting) the fund by expropriating a higher proportion of marker pens for "his company" than would be considered fair and reasonable. cdmtmdmcemd is on to him and has been tailing him and logging his marker pen use. cdmtemdmm now wishes to call in the police on the matter. It sounds like a tempest in a teapot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMHomeboy78 Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 i find many of the answers confusing , i hear farangs constantly complain of how bad the laws are here , how the govt should do this , or do that , back home we do it this way blah blah blah ....how can we criticize the Thai people when we do not lead by example ? And I find that your arrogance makes complete sense, in light of the fact that you... 1. ...like to call foreigners "farang." 2. ...think you need to "lead by example," when that example is a snitch 3. ...think you know someone is "laughing at the law." 4. ...feel "confused" over people offering less emotional/dramatic action. 5. ...have "no fear of consequences" 6. ...reference the all powerful "food off my plate" and affecting "my children's future" lines. Shall I continue? I'm not challenging your post as a whole, but allow me to take issue with one point... The term 'farang' when used alone is not derogatory. It comes from the Farsi word 'farangi'; introduced by the Persians who were established at King Narai's Ayudhya court in the 17th century. It was derived from 'Frank' during the Crusades, and became their word for Europeans in general. Thus the Siamese acquired it. The etymology is unambiguous and easy to access. It has never been used as an insult in the historical sources that refer to it. Misunderstanding its meaning could lead to offence taken where none is intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FolkGuitar Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 i have many options available , having considered them all i guess it gets back to protecting the best interest of my family ..... i can end the problem swiftly ,however the fallout for this individual will be life changing .... Can you afford to out-bid him when he pays 20,000 baht to the 'right people' to put YOU out of business? Or do you suppose that ratting him out is going to make him you new best friend? Do you imagine he's going to take your action sitting down, regardless of who is right or wrong? I doubt what ever his infraction may be, it's not going to cause the police to haul him off to jail without due process. He'll have time to do what ever he feels is needed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beetlejuice Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 i have many options available , having considered them all i guess it gets back to protecting the best interest of my family ..... i can end the problem swiftly ,however the fallout for this individual will be life changing .... What do you mean by this exactly? Are you actually legally running a company yourself? If not than you have no clout of cause for complaint if you do not practice what you preach. yes of course i am, that is my beef , the other individual is not and its damaging legit companies . as for the part you dont understand , i can do it legally involving lawyers and govt officials or i can do it the Thai way ...however i also have a heart and feel for the huge problem this will cause for the offender .... Have you heard the old saying; there is no love in business? Charity and loyalty begins at home, sometimes pity can be a form of weakness in certain circumstances. Doing it the Thai way as you describe is not an option, your options are to put this guy out of business the right way, which is the legal way or continue on as the long and suffering and let this guy encroach on your livelihood. These are your options as no one can tell you what to do, it`s now up to you at your own discretion. Wishing you success however way you deal with this situation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangmai Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 (edited) Have a lawyer write him a registered letter in English. 1000 THB....There is a good law school here (actually 2), and plenty of lawyers. That would probably be the best choice in the US, too, but the Lawyer would cost you 7-9000 thb. Edited December 21, 2014 by bangmai 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyL Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 i have many options available , having considered them all i guess it gets back to protecting the best interest of my family ..... i can end the problem swiftly ,however the fallout for this individual will be life changing .... You sound very sure of yourself. Yes, the fallout could be very life changing, but not in ways you expect. I'd suggest you tread very lightly. Yes, it's good to protect your family, but be very careful, esp. if you plan to stay in this area after you've done whatever it is you're planning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat999 Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Live and let live... At what line do you stop this attitude? Harming your business, harming your family, harming your community, or does it need to be something stronger like murder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat999 Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Business is business. Do whatever it takes to take this guy out of the market with the smallest possible risk to your family. If he gets screwed badly you will of gifted him a life lesson which he needed. Maybe there is a way to do it anonymously? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post WinnieTheKhwai Posted December 21, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted December 21, 2014 Can someone wake me up when it becomes clear what the offense actually is? Thanks! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdmtdm Posted December 21, 2014 Author Share Posted December 21, 2014 Can someone wake me up when it becomes clear what the offense actually is? Thanks! running an unregistered business , advt good for sale that are unavailable , no work permit, false address , promoting the business as a reg company .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinnieTheKhwai Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 (edited) ^ And you're in the same type of business, yet customers prefer doing business with him for whatever reason? Anyway, assuming his business is doing well then those things aren't too hard to arrange. It even makes sense to go try a business informally first, and once he knows it's actually working it makes sense to do all the paperwork. This 'offender' can easily get things legal when challenged. Reading the topic title I thought you found a sex offender or something who could be (and should be) put away. This reads more than an administrative hassle than anything else. As you know, registering a company isn't terribly difficult to do, nor is it expensive. So I think your efforts are better spent working at your own business, and making sure it's better and more attractive than what he's doing. Edited December 22, 2014 by WinnieTheKhwai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FolkGuitar Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Can someone wake me up when it becomes clear what the offense actually is? Thanks! running an unregistered business , advt good for sale that are unavailable , no work permit, false address , promoting the business as a reg company .... So basically, he's your competition and you want the government to remove it. I understand. That's much easier than building a better mouse trap. You've spent a lot of money to register your business and get your work permit, and you're upset that he didn't. I can understand you better now.... The law WILL eventually catch up with him. It always does, in the long run these days. Perhaps not so much in the past, but times have changed. But even if it does, most likely all that will happen will be a hefty fine. This is a civil violation, not a violent act. The odds are good that, so long as his visa status is correct, and he can afford to pay the fine, he won't even be deported nor jailed. (When was the last time you read about a foreigner being deported?) ... and then he's going to nail your ass to the wall. And continue hammering until you decide that perhaps you made a mistake, and living in Thailand is no longer your best option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante99 Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Can someone wake me up when it becomes clear what the offense actually is? Thanks! running an unregistered business , advt good for sale that are unavailable , no work permit, false address , promoting the business as a reg company .... Have you had a lawyer review the laws, confirm his acts and contact all the relevant government offices to verify that those accusations are true? Most of what you accuse him of are minor administrative issues which the government is unlikely to bother about. Proving that a person is "working" without a work permit is not always easy particularly if it is an online business which it sounds like. Is it? If those are his transgressions and you are having difficult competing because of them, as Whinnie suggested, improvement of your business is the best answer because if he had all his paperwork correct he would still be kicking your butt. What does he need, 50,000 Baht to get his paperwork then you are toast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sappersrest Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Does the original poster live in Chiang Mai or Phuket, if it is the latter perhaps the topic should be moved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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