girlx has posted some really bad experiences with thai men berries which makes her less than objective when it come to them.

Last time I was at the beach I saw a very strange ensemble of people... First I saw a 40-something yo blonde European woman hanging out with a stunningly attractive young Thai boy- probably 19-20 yo- who obviously wasn't worrying about the sun on his skin- I had to force myself not to stare openly. Suddenly, she was joined by a couple of 20-something yo young gay men whom I am sure that I knew from Silom Soi 4 from some time ago. That really confused me for a moment- however, finally a 40-something yo gay European man joined the group.

Later, the Europeans and the straight "beach boy" went swimming. The two gay guys were keeping themselves covered up and protecting their skin.

Now, the guys from Soi 4 were not bad guys- I had known of them indirectly through other people who dated them. However, I'm pretty sure they were looking for fun and an easy meal ticket, and I'm sure the young Thai straight man was as well. It didn't seem to me (considering there were TWO gay guys with the foreigner) that any of them were under any particular illusions regarding "love" or anything like that.

It seems to me that if you're dating pesons whose main contact with foreigners is in the context of tourism and holiday, you should expect transience to be more likely than permanence. If you fall in love and get your heart broken easily, these probably aren't the right group of people to be playing around with.

"Steven"

I read through the whole of the other topic tbefore reading this one and after reading your first posting in this thread, in my opinion there's not much chance of the relationship developing. Years ago I met a guy who was basically a beach boy and he had a girlfriend in bangkok. he was open about it and I wasn't the first he'd been with but supposedly was the first he really fell for. I don't doubt that he had strong feelings for me as they really did seem to be in the air (or he was a good actor!) but when he wanted to visit me at the same time as visiting his girlfriend in bangkok there was no way was going for that. It was in my 'wild' days so I wasn't looking for a relationship anyhow and I didn't even fancy him all that much so it was easy to make the decision. Something I didn't really think about at the time and maybe you're not thinking of either is what about the girlfriend - while your relationship with this guy might be open, is hers? If it's not, then think of the hurt she might suffer when she finds out about you? If they planned to marry and it's her parents got in the way (which is possible as I've seen it happen before) then they must have been in love with each other and could very well still be.

Thanks for the reply. I am still as confused as ever, but definitely more grounded then when I walked off the plane. If I were smart I'd probably end all communication with him, but he's still calling me and telling me how much he misses me and loves me and all that...which is kind of hard to resist. I am sure when the school year starts and I am busy as all hel_l, this will probably drop off a bit, or maybe all together. But I can't lie, a part of me is like how could you let go of a connection like that...it's not that different that what you described above. And its not just him, but our whole little family of friends that I'd like to see again....but then going back is where i'd really risk my heart I suppose. I do think about the girlfriend, and that situation you mentioned about him trying to visit it you at the same time, could very well happen to me, and you are right, that is just ridiculous. I do think about her and feel bad, but I guess it is easier to feel bad for myself. I for one just wish she knew about me, and then I would be a lot more at peace about the whole thing--because that is how a real open relationship works. The more I feel like a mistress the more I resent the whole situation...it's just so hard for me to get the balls to break ties, because then I will be the one with the what ifs...

What ifs

ok, here is what I experienced a few years back, before I came to my senses

I was living in China and vacationned here for 2 1/2-3 months every year. I met a beach guy, it was fun, we went around Thailand together, I saw places I wouldn't have seen on my own, it was great.

He told me he loved me. He was up-front (I thought) that before he met me he was in love with another woman but she had gone back home and that now they were just friends, even though they still talked on the phone once in a while.

But we talked all the time, almost every day, he missed me, I missed him, I was working and very busy so this relationship was fine. We were together every few months whenever I had holiday time.

Finally, I decide to move to Thailand, he was all for it and we planned what we would do.

However, the other girl came back, the very day I went back home to prepare for my move. He told her he didn't love me. I came back just a few weeks later and I got the news. Poor him, he said he was so confused, he didn't know what to do. Anguish. He chose her.

I was upset, got over it, and now live in Paradise.

In the meantime, the other girl waited for him as they planned for him to join her in her country. But he didn't show to get his visa as she had organized, he even stopped calling her. She found me (internet world is a small place) and emailed me as she was worried about him, she assumed he was back with me. She tought it was unlike him to end contact because he had integrity.

He was not with me, I hadn't seen him in over 8 months but I knew he had found his latest conquest who was funding him to open a clothes store.

What ifs.

My story is not unusual as I have heard similar stories since then.

yes, but finish the story Gisele. Tell us about your non-beach boy that you ended up marrying instead of the loser who strung you along. Seems to me the beach boy did you the biggest favor of your life

yes, as sbk says, the beach boy led me to where I live now. When we visited his hometown I really loved the place. I found a lecturing position at the university. I met my husband while I was on my way to visit sbk a few years ago. We have been together ever since the first day we met. We have 2 teenage children (his wife passed away when the youngest child was 1 month old) we have a frog farm, and we are planning on building our house on beach land we own near our farm, the architect is refining the plans right now. I have found my paradise.

Gisele!!

How nice to read a nice "happy ever after" story!!

that is a good story gisele

that is a good story gisele

The strange thing is that the "other girl" who found me on the net and I actually became friends.

It's like we share some kinship, like belonging to a weird "got taken in by the beach boy" club. We once joked that there must be a whole lot of other women out there who could join our group, and we should put his picture on the net to warn his future targets.

Didn't pursue this because really, life is too short to bother about such things.

Forgive and forget, learn from it, move on.

She and I still email, she even came to visit me and my family a few times. She is great.

I totally understood that she is a farang which is why I couldn't beleive that she thinks that Thai men choose foreign women for free sex and money, instead of a 'gorgeous Thai' - implying that there are no gorgeous foreign women.

not what i was implying at all, don't put words in my mouth. it's just that the majority of guys who move to the beach and start dating farangs are not doing so because the farangs are more gorgeous (though in some cases they are), but because they can't get a thai woman as easily as they can a farang. ask them! they always say no thai woman would have them because they are too poor and uneducated. foreigners are not always so discriminating. they spend their money freely on them, and don't require gold and sinsot and an upstanding job etc. (mostly because they don't plan a serious future with them). also thai guys have to wait a long time to get with a nice thai woman, and when they do they are expected to get married. whereas most foreign girls jump into bed with them in a matter of meetings with no strings attached.

girlx has posted some really bad experiences with thai men berries which makes her less than objective when it come to them.

really? i have only had one bad experience with one thai man and i haven't posted about that for awhile. it's just that when you imply that some thai men are less than perfect on here you suddenly become branded a racist stereotyper, no matter how much diplomacy you use. there are some uncomfortable facts about thai mens' perspective and behavior (lack of monogamy- phew does the truth hurt!) which are ingrained into them since birth. there is nothing wrong with pointing out these cultural differences and giving people who might not be aware of them a head's up. it is simply because we come from a very different perspective that we get offended by it. if we looked at things realistically and took into account the history behind cultural aspects (for example, prior to October 1, 1935, polygamy was freely practiced in Thailand), we might understand where they are coming from better.

here is an interesting article to exemplify:

Thailand and Polygamy

Edited August 22, 200619 yr by girlx

Agreed, but you seem to harp on it so that this tends to negate your message because you end up sounding like a broken record.

I have never said there weren't Thai men like this, in fact, I believe I have said that many are. BUT I also point out that there are decent ones and they aren't all taken. This, you seem to do so grudgingly.

As for the idea that beach/bar boys can't get a decent thai woman because they are poor, well, I beg to differ. I know plenty of poor Thai men who have had no difficulties at all in finding a decent Thai woman. I think the bar boys have a hard time finding a decent woman because they have such a poor reputation (ie violence, promiscuity, drug use etc). I think the easy lifestyle of a beach/bar boy attracts a certain type of guy. And that type of guy is the kind that won't find it easy to get a decent woman, money or no.

Frankly, the only successful relationships I have known between a farang woman and a Thai man have not been with bar boys come to the island to make money, but with locals who have homes here and are a part of the local community.

actually i don't harp on it, but i get lots of negative comments from other people out of nowhere and i feel the need to defend myself. a lot of times when i post something, it is taken as my bashing a certain group. however, my intention is not to bash but to examine realistically the situation. i am very interested in foreign-thai relationships and the cultural differences inherent in them. it is funny to watch westerners get so offended by matter of fact statements which are accepted as a matter of course by easterners. i feel like a lot of the women on here are fairly idealistic, and are determinedly blind to certain traits which are rampant in thailand. why else do people get so riled up over statements such as "the average thai man is not monogamous"? there are plenty of statistics all over the web to back this statement up. so why can we not have a discussion about it and the potential pitfalls of a relationship with a thai if you are coming from a western perspective, without all this emotional backlash? if i qualify a generalization as a generalization, then honest debate should be no problem. again, i have never used the word "all" in summation of any group of people.

as for beach boys, my point aligns pretty closely with yours SBK. the average beach boy's intentions are not good, it is the nature of their lifestyle- not much different fromt he bar girls. so to generalize, i would not recommend someone getting involved with one without a lot of honest examination of the situation first. however, just as not all thai men beat their women, not all beach boys have bad intentions. some of them have an honest ambition to better themselves and their lives by working. some of them refuse to be supported by farang girls and make valid attempts at long term relationships. some of them are honest and kind and ambitious. just not most of them. as everywhere, you have to kiss a lot of frogs to find a prince.

but the same goes with supposedly upstanding locals- a lot of the locals i have met on koh phangan are scum. they have killed people, do way too many drugs, womanize and have this sense of superiority over any "outsiders", follow no laws whatsoever. i don't think maybe you see so much of it from where you are SBK, since you don't tend to go to parties or hang out in the younger groups. i won't name names here but there definitely IS a large family of mafia running the underbelly of this island. i would not trust most locals here any more than i would the average beach boy. there are of course exceptions. there is another large family in ban tai who is very involved in the community, religion, and politics of the island. their intentions are overall pretty good. but even they have ripped off a few of my foreign friends on dodgy land deals. so again, there are good and bad people everywhere, in all classes. my intention is just to point out certain cultural or anthropological patterns which differ from ours in the west and discuss them honestly. i don't mean to personally offend anyone, but i am not going to look only through rose colored glasses either.

girlx, you post such negative opinions of thai men that I figured that your experiences went beyond one man, so apologies, wow, he must have done a number on you then.

But you really don't do yourself or your argument any favours but making statments like this;

i don't mean to personally offend anyone, but i am not going to look only through rose colored glasses either.

Is this suggesting that we are?

it is funny to watch westerners get so offended by matter of fact statements which are accepted as a matter of course by easterners. i feel like a lot of the women on here are fairly idealistic, and are determinedly blind to certain traits which are rampant in thailand

Who are these "easteners"? We haven't been raised in this society so don't accept what "easteners" may find acceptable. We can afford to be idealistic & you know what, so far, it's all working out. I expect a certain level of decency & I get it, I don't "settle" for anything & my life & the people (thai or not) are good Maybe thats because I don't do thai style, I do my style. The people in my life are the exact type of people I want in it. As I have said many many times, good & bad are everywhere you just have to weed the bad out.

But actually, no one disputes (or has) that there are some <deleted> out there & we have often said that too but from your posts it sounds like they are all only thai & those of us who know decent men WILL defend them as an objective person knows, men of any nationality can be a cheater, beater, drinker or ######, but that many many more of them aren't, so how's that for the truth hurting.

You do seem determined though to not accept that some of us have found good thai men (after a few not so good but isn't that going to happen in any country anyway?) so we will defend the good ones.

but i get lots of negative comments from other people out of nowhere and i feel the need to defend myself. a lot of times when i post something,

You can have any opinion you want but IMO, you do sound like a bigot or rascist with some of the comments you make but by making these comments you can't get upset when others jump on you for them. If you cna't stand the heat, don't post.

for example, prior to October 1, 1935

It aint 1935 anymore & if you meet a man who still hold these outdated opinions then empower yourself girlx & get rid of him. Simple really.

actually i don't harp on it, but i get lots of negative comments from other people out of nowhere and i feel the need to defend myself. a lot of times when i post something, it is taken as my bashing a certain group. however, my intention is not to bash but to examine realistically the situation. i am very interested in foreign-thai relationships and the cultural differences inherent in them. it is funny to watch westerners get so offended by matter of fact statements which are accepted as a matter of course by easterners. i feel like a lot of the women on here are fairly idealistic, and are determinedly blind to certain traits which are rampant in thailand. why else do people get so riled up over statements such as "the average thai man is not monogamous"? there are plenty of statistics all over the web to back this statement up. so why can we not have a discussion about it and the potential pitfalls of a relationship with a thai if you are coming from a western perspective, without all this emotional backlash? if i qualify a generalization as a generalization, then honest debate should be no problem. again, i have never used the word "all" in summation of any group of people.

as for beach boys, my point aligns pretty closely with yours SBK. the average beach boy's intentions are not good, it is the nature of their lifestyle- not much different fromt he bar girls. so to generalize, i would not recommend someone getting involved with one without a lot of honest examination of the situation first. however, just as not all thai men beat their women, not all beach boys have bad intentions. some of them have an honest ambition to better themselves and their lives by working. some of them refuse to be supported by farang girls and make valid attempts at long term relationships. some of them are honest and kind and ambitious. just not most of them. as everywhere, you have to kiss a lot of frogs to find a prince.

but the same goes with supposedly upstanding locals- a lot of the locals i have met on koh phangan are scum. they have killed people, do way too many drugs, womanize and have this sense of superiority over any "outsiders", follow no laws whatsoever. i don't think maybe you see so much of it from where you are SBK, since you don't tend to go to parties or hang out in the younger groups. i won't name names here but there definitely IS a large family of mafia running the underbelly of this island. i would not trust most locals here any more than i would the average beach boy. there are of course exceptions. there is another large family in ban tai who is very involved in the community, religion, and politics of the island. their intentions are overall pretty good. but even they have ripped off a few of my foreign friends on dodgy land deals. so again, there are good and bad people everywhere, in all classes. my intention is just to point out certain cultural or anthropological patterns which differ from ours in the west and discuss them honestly. i don't mean to personally offend anyone, but i am not going to look only through rose colored glasses either.

girlx, I know alot of scum farang too, drugs womanizing etc. I avoid those too. I think, when the only people you associate with are the ones who are in the tourist industry you get a skewed idea of what people are like. Like I've always said, those Thais that seek you out are the ones who want something from you. If they are saying "my friend" they are most assuredly not your friend. The vast majority of the local people on this island are not scum, do not do drugs and do not kill people.

And hey, if you want to name names PM me --I'll be happy to pass the name onto my husband and get his feedback.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand, which is not girlx, nor her experiences on Koh Phangan outside the beach boy scene but the general perception of beach boys, which is, frankly, low.

Another thing to point out with alot of these guys is something girlx has already mentioned. Is the fact that alot of these guys quite literally have girls on holidays throwing themselves at the men. I think any guy who has this kind of constant barrage of easy sex and short holiday romances would have a very difficult time actually settling down after awhile.

see boo, you are getting defensive again. you missed all my points entirely, and there is no need to post them again as anyone can scroll up and re-read.

SBK, you are right, there are a lot of scummy foreigners, especially on koh phangan. but you seem very entrenched in the idea that locals are blameless and good, when i know for sure many are not. my point is, others generalize as much as i might on here. my generalizations piss people off because they hit close to home.

No, my point is you do the same to Koh P people that you do to thai men, harp on the negative while seeming to negate the idea that positive exists.

LOL girlx, I think you missed my points too. But maybe our opinion that you are too negative & quite probably a bigot hits too close to home too IF you are so interested in thai/farang relationships then ask yourself why you are only interested in the things that go wrong instead of the things that go right. But again, your opinion is your opinion but please stop playing the victim & claiming everyone picks on you when we disagree with your posts.

Edited August 22, 200619 yr by Boo

my generalizations piss people off because they hit close to home.

No they P*** people off because they come across as breathtakingly arrogant, maybe you don't intend them to but they do. Recently you told a memeber of this forum that you doubt her husband of 17 years is faithful to her, ok you've apologised for that but to make an assumption like that is completely out of order.

I've told my story on here before. I've been with my partner 10years , married 7. And just to prove the exception to the rule he was a beach boy although he moved to BKK, so we could be together for good, 5 months into our relationship. We have kids, one is severley disabled. Our whole lives have been affected by the sometimes 24 hour care our son needs. It's not easy and statistically many couples with disabled kids end up divorcing. Statistically the odds are stacked against us. We're still together and still in love.

The time and energy my husband has spent helping our son to be the best he can become, to achieve the small steps he does, when you watch that, that's what love is all about and he makes sure our other kids don't miss out too. That's nothing to do with nationality, thats to do with being a truly good human being. Sure he's not perfect but who is? I know I'm not

There's no window of time where either of us could fit in an affair. No violence, no drugs, no gambling in our relationship. At times I've been the breadwinner at others he's been the breadwinner.

Your comments don't piss me off because they hit close to home they piss me off because in my case they don't resemble anything like the man I'm married to.

Recently you told a memeber of this forum that you doubt her husband of 17 years is faithful to her, ok you've apologised for that but to make an assumption like that is completely out of order.

i would say that based on my knowledge and experience of thailand thus far, it is not out of order to be suspicious. that would apply in any country, but especially in thailand because of their long accepted tradition of non monogamy. it was a rude way to make a point, which i conceded. i think SBK has a lovely life and man, based on what she says, but who knows either way?

Your comments don't piss me off because they hit close to home they piss me off because in my case they don't resemble anything like the man I'm married to.

yes and you admit you are the exception to the rule, which is my point.

IF you are so interested in thai/farang relationships then ask yourself why you are only interested in the things that go wrong instead of the things that go right.

&

No, my point is you do the same to Koh P people that you do to thai men, harp on the negative while seeming to negate the idea that positive exists.

i am just as willing to get into a discussion of good things about a situation, if it applies. (see my other post on here asking to hear the good stories about thai men so that i have some fodder). i would be happy to contribute to a posting about the good side of koh phangan, i would have lots to say. i obviously would not have much good to say about a discussion on the chances of a thai man/farang woman relationship succeeding especially if the man was a beach boy. that is a realistic and valid perspective based on my varied experience. i choose to share that, you are welcome to argue it. there is no reason to take it personally if you are happy.

i am analytical and i want to hear others' experiences even if they differ from my own. there is a diference between offering a stance and invoking honest debate and one sided bashing. i have been fair by recognizing there are exceptions. you should be fair and recognize that i have recognized that and debate the point as you see it based on your experiences with thais.

Sorry to say so but some very good posts IMHO from girlx.

Edited August 22, 200619 yr by meemiathai

You say you want to have a debate but why? To what end & what do you expect to be the outcome. I can say with nearly 100% accuracy that it would be the same as has already happened here. Some agree with you & many don't.

I for one am too busy living my life to care about what other thai men do, it doesn't interest me, sorry if that isn't the reponse you wanted but as we have gone over again & again & again, I have a lot of great male thai friends. I have very rarely met <deleted> & when I did, I didn't have them in my life for long. Therefore I can't relate to your opinions or view on them.

And despite you saying that you accept others opinions on it, I don't think that you do, why else would you make snide remarks about rose tinted glasses & not being able to see the truth. So although you say you are open to a debate, in reality, you aren't as you can't accept my view as valid or even the truth?.

Read the previous posts on here, no one is disputing that there are cetain reputations & that some guys do live up to them. But that is a fact of life. Some men sleep around. That is hardly the statement of the century, anyone with half a brain cell would know it. I dont need or want to debate why men do as they do & see no real reason in why being thai would make it more interesting!

Now if you were to find a weboard devoted to the discussion of men (generally) you will probably have a captive audiance but here, you will continue to have women who like the thai men they know & wont ever be happy with dispariging generalisations about them.

Edited August 22, 200619 yr by Boo

for one am too busy living my life to care about what other thai men do, it doesn't interest me

then why get worked up over my posts? don't read them! i guarantee you there are other foreign women here who agree with me, i talk to them every day. newcomers might also find my experiences helpful. but if you disagree, fine! no problem, bring on the good stories then!

here, you will continue to have women who like the thai men they know & wont ever be happy with dispariging generalisations about them.

i am not interested in making people happy, i am interested in honest discussion.

There you go again, making the assumption that our opinions aren't truthful.

yes, as sbk says, the beach boy led me to where I live now. When we visited his hometown I really loved the place. I found a lecturing position at the university. I met my husband while I was on my way to visit sbk a few years ago. We have been together ever since the first day we met. We have 2 teenage children (his wife passed away when the youngest child was 1 month old) we have a frog farm, and we are planning on building our house on beach land we own near our farm, the architect is refining the plans right now. I have found my paradise.

Gisele

What a wonderful story. Superb.

Edited August 23, 200619 yr by somchai jones

There you go again, making the assumption that our opinions aren't truthful.

go back and read my post again and then tell me who is making assumptions. you twist my intentions.

I am not going to get in a pissing contest with girlx or anybody else here.

I don't see a whole lot of debate going on here so, if we can't get back on topic, I don't see any reason to keep this thread open.

I am not going to get in a pissing contest with girlx or anybody else here.

I don't see a whole lot of debate going on here so, if we can't get back on topic, I don't see any reason to keep this thread open.

I see a tremendous amount of debate going on here; albeit not exactly on topic.

I'm 50 and my TW is 25, for years I have read all the snotty, mean-spirited comments about the bald, fugly, old smelly farang and their Thai honeys who are only with them for the money (a generalization). Almost all of these comments coming from a small group of women on this forum (you know who you are). Haha finally somene (girlx) throws out a generalization about Thai men and these same women go ballistic on her.

I know, I know, ...... I suffer from the 'MGID' syndrome. Now the shoe is on the other foot how does it feel? MGID = My Guy Is Different

girlx don't back down from your opinions. You've been accused of being biased because of one bad experience. Seems to me the women here who have a great experience with a Thai guy (I'm very happy for them ) are equally biased in the other direction.

I find that girlx is open for an honest discussion and certain others are wearing blinders......it's their way or the highway......this thread will be closed soon for some silly reason by the BB......blinder brigade

Right, thanks for that opinion, it seems to me that the only reason you agree with girlx is because it fits your stereotyped image of the lazy useless thai man that so many guys seem to be invested in believing.

You are obviously another one of these people who choose to read what suits their own opinion without reading the entire post.

I have said, more than enough times, that sure, there are plenty of guys who are like that, but as well, there are plenty who are not. Some people refuse to accept that their blinkered version of a people or a place may not be accurate or that someone else's different version is as equally as valid.

Truthfully, I haven't seen that many snotty mean spirited comments about fugly farang men coming from that many women, mostly it seems to be alot of guys who feel the need to be nasty and mean spirited. And to be fair, we were asked what we thought, if you don't like the answer, don't read it.

I think, you are finding a backlash here because so many farang men on this forum feel the need to denigrate both farang women and Thai men based on their own preconceived prejudices. I, for one, have been here listening to this kind of talk for a few years now and am quite tired of it.

yawn.

It's getting really boring to say that no one has denied girlx points or that they aren't true but some of us have tried to give a different perspective & experiences & because of it are accused of not being honest or having rose tinited glasses. To me that is blinkered & small minded.

If you don't like that then tough

this thread was a slow starter , but is developing wonderfully.

whilst i have no real opinion on the worthiness or worthlessness of Thai men , it is enlightening and fascinating to follow a debate involving predominantly women , and to compare the adversarial styles used.

love da blues analogy was , i would say, most relevant.

as yet there have been no threats , insults or flaming , so please do not close this thread.

its chugging along very nicely.

Right, thanks for that opinion, it seems to me that the only reason you agree with girlx is because it fits your stereotyped image of the lazy useless thai man that so many guys seem to be invested in believing.

You are obviously another one of these people who choose to read what suits their own opinion without reading the entire post.

I have said, more than enough times, that sure, there are plenty of guys who are like that, but as well, there are plenty who are not. Some people refuse to accept that their blinkered version of a people or a place may not be accurate or that someone else's different version is as equally as valid.

Truthfully, I haven't seen that many snotty mean spirited comments about fugly farang men coming from that many women, mostly it seems to be alot of guys who feel the need to be nasty and mean spirited. And to be fair, we were asked what we thought, if you don't like the answer, don't read it.

I think, you are finding a backlash here because so many farang men on this forum feel the need to denigrate both farang women and Thai men based on their own preconceived prejudices. I, for one, have been here listening to this kind of talk for a few years now and am quite tired of it.

Right, thanks for that opinion, it seems to me that the only reason you agree with girlx is because it fits your stereotyped image of the lazy useless thai man that so many guys seem to be invested in believing.

Wow. Where to begin? First of all, I have read all the posts. You problem seems to be that you read but don't comprehend. Where did I say I agree with girlx? You said that, not me. I just said that girlx should defend her position.

Boy, do you ever put words in someone's mouth! I don't have a 'stereotyped image of lazy useless thai men' as YOU (not me) say. In fact, the few Thai men I come in contact with have proven to be hard workers. Just today I paid a guy 110,000 baht for putting in fill dirt on a piece of land I own. I complimented him on the great job he did; I was very pleased. My wife's father and brother are also hard workers as well; usually 7 days a week.

You are obviously another one of these people who choose to read what suits their own opinion without reading the entire post.

Wrong. I read every post on this thread.

I have said, more than enough times, that sure, there are plenty of guys who are like that, but as well, there are plenty who are not. Some people refuse to accept that their blinkered version of a people or a place may not be accurate or that someone else's different version is as equally as valid.

I agree with this 100%. That's why the opinion of girlx is just as valid as others on this thread who are attacking her, saying she is biased, etc. I've never said I agreed with her just that her opinion has as much weight as anyone else's.

Truthfully, I haven't seen that many snotty mean spirited comments about fugly farang men coming from that many women, mostly it seems to be alot of guys who feel the need to be nasty and mean spirited. And to be fair, we were asked what we thought, if you don't like the answer, don't read it.

Now, this is just plain laughable. Over the years I've read NUMEROUS put-downs from women about fugly farang and Thai honeys etc......no I don't have the time/desire to go back thru the posts and pick them out. As far as this if you don't like the answer, don't read it. could you please tell me how I can like/dislike an answer without first reading it?

I think, you are finding a backlash here because so many farang men on this forum feel the need to denigrate both farang women and Thai men based on their own preconceived prejudices. I, for one, have been here listening to this kind of talk for a few years now and am quite tired of it.

I can understand this. I don't like the bashing on ANY group of people......even fugly old farangs....... We all get older...and usually don't age gracefully.....but still have feelings.

In the meantime, the other girl waited for him as they planned for him to join her in her country. But he didn't show to get his visa as she had organized, he even stopped calling her. She found me (internet world is a small place) and emailed me as she was worried about him, she assumed he was back with me. She tought it was unlike him to end contact because he had integrity.

He was not with me, I hadn't seen him in over 8 months but I knew he had found his latest conquest who was funding him to open a clothes store.

This is a very interesting post. Again, the shoe is on the other foot. Normally it is the TG using the farang male. The only difference the clothes store would be a bar or beauty salon

Ok lovedablues, I assumed you were referring to the other thread where a farang man asked the women on this forum what they thought when they saw a farang man with a thai woman. If you weren't then, apologies.

And you're right, I am assuming because of your post that you hold what is quite a popular misconception among a lot of the farang men who post on this forum. Apologies for putting words into your mouth.

I guess I just take things a little too personally and felt that your reference to a blinder brigade must have been referencing me since I had just posted a request to get this thread back on topic. If you weren't implying that about me, then, again, apologies.

I think the thing I dislike so much about girlx's attempt at debate is her attitude that if you don't agree with everything she says then you are either naive or looking at the world through rose colored glasses. She has attempted this opinion with me in another thread regarding the island we both live on and personally, her atttitudes and reactions in that thread have colored my perceptions in this one.

So, to make it clear, I am 40 years old and have lived in Thailand for 17 years. I am well aware of the shortcomings of some Thai men, just as I am aware of the shortcomings of some Thai women. But, as an adult, I understand that one person's generalizations are a result of their experiences, and that another's experiences can be completely different and thus that person would have different generalizations.

I think that some people have difficulty realizing this fact.