Koh Tao murder trial rescheduled

Thanks GC. So I am not needing therapy yet. The time stamp is there at the top right (as it was on the others I have been banging on about). And it certainly looks like a shoe is missing. The tee shirt looks like Wins (from the bike still) - the motif on the front is the same colour and size and the sleeves are the same length. On the bike Win is wearing long trousers. Mystery man here is wearing shorts. I still think he's carrying something behind him despite no one else on here agreeing. Four stills of Mystery man then in the street on the morning of 15th September -

Earliest 02.01 - possibly with shoe missing

Then 03.32

Then 03.38

Then 04.57

Reasons it could not be Win:

It would only give Win 3 minutes to get home and fall asleep if what Maung has said about finding them asleep at 5am is true.

I can't think of any other at the moment.

Reasons it could be Win:

The tee shirt looks very similar.

Body shape looks similar.

Hair looks similar especially side view.

He could have changed out of his long trousers which he was seen to be wearing on the bike into a pair of shorts as seen on Mystery man at some point.

Maung's statement saying he found Win and Saw asleep in bed at 5am may not be true.

Times Running man was captured on same streets were -

03.44

04.49

05.41

There may be other stills I haven't seen. And maybe Mystery man is nothing to do with the crime at all.

And I guess we can be certain that Running man was not Mon running towards the beach after hearing of the deaths because Running man was spotted at 03.44 (running) and the bodies were not reported until 6am (ish). Unless the bodies were actually found before 6 by someone other than the person who reported the discovery to the police. So for speculation purposes only, let's say Running man is Mon. At 05:41 Mon is captured on CCTV running towards the beach after hearing the news of the deaths from someone. (Did Mon hear the news before the police I wonder? Did the person that found the bodies contact the police immediately or first tell someone else?. How long was it after it was reported to the police were they on the scene?). I'm sure I have read that Mon admitted it was him in the CCTV running after hearing the news. Anyone else read that? What was he doing for the other 2 hours between the first CCTV of him at 03.44?

Edited January 8, 2015 by catsanddogs

greenchair · January 8, 2015

Did you not look at my picks.

Boys on bike 23:10:23

Mystery man 23:14:57

How one of them be on bike and walking at same time almost.

Is the 23:00 not a correct time

jimmybkk · January 8, 2015

You realize that timestamps on CCTV's are not synchronized, right?

IslandLover · January 8, 2015

catsanddogs, on 08 Jan 2015 - 09:14, said:

IslandLover, on 08 Jan 2015 - 04:56, said:

catsanddogs, on 07 Jan 2015 - 09:11, said:catsanddogs, on 07 Jan 2015 - 09:11, said:

GC - what I see from these stills:

Timed stamped 3.38 (side view) someone sitting at side of road and someone through the glass in building behind him. What is this building? Shop/flat?

Time stamped 3.32 (side view) looks like he is carrying something behind his back which could be a hoe or similar.

Time stamped 4.57 (front view) looks like there is a picture of a man on his tee shirt.

Which one is the still which you say he has no sandal on?

Can you give a link to picture of sandal on beach (without showing the pictures of the deceased victims).

He has quite a distinct face which doesn't seem to fit anyone we have been discussing to date.

Can somebody send me these pictures which have been deleted privately by pm? BTW I'm quite good at identifying people

IslandLover - see Metisdead's post number 650.

Thanks, I just saw the pics have been reinstated.

catsanddogs · January 8, 2015

Did you not look at my picks.

Boys on bike 23:10:23

Mystery man 23:14:57

How one of them be on bike and walking at same time almost.

Is the 23:00 not a correct time

Yes I just looked again and I understand what you are saying. In your post 693 - at 23:10:23 hours the three men are on the bike. Win is wearing a black and white tee shirt and long trousers. I can't make out what he has on his feet, if anything.

Then in your post 698 - at 23:14:40 hours, Mystery man, who I have said I think resembles Win, is seen walking down the street. So it could not be Win, unless within those 4 minutes or so (difference in time stamps) he got off the bike and changed into a pair of shorts.

There is no date on the time stamp in post 698. I thought the date always came up on the stills along with the time?

The pic in your post 696 only comes up as a blank page on my 'puter.

IslandLover · January 8, 2015

boomerangutang, on 08 Jan 2015 - 03:05, said:
Regarding CCTV, missing, destroyed or otherwise, there is the couple walking fast - ahead of one of the 'person of interest' (ahead of the running man with no shirt and shorts). The man is farang and heavyset, the woman is probably Thai and she walks a couple steps behind him. If they were in close vicinity of the crime when it happened, they very likely would have heard screams and shouting. They may have also seen pertinent things. That farang man should be found and questioned, as a possible witness. As for the woman, well, if she's Thai (and particularly if she's a local gal), she knows to keep her mouth shut.

To me that is one of the most relevant pieces of CCTV footage as the couple was pictured walking 3 seconds in front of the running man. Surely they would have seen him?

One poster mentioned they had read that the couple was Chinese. No way is the man Chinese - far too big - he is definitely a westerner.

IslandLover · January 8, 2015

jimmybkk, on 08 Jan 2015 - 16:41, said:
You realize that timestamps on CCTV's are not synchronized, right?

You mean different cams will show variations in the time? Are they so different from each other though?

greenchair · January 8, 2015

You realize that timestamps on CCTV's are not synchronized, right?

I know that. But the timestamp must be within a few minutes of each other. The picture with no time (side view ) has a red stamp A1. On the bike A1 is Muang in the middle.

They are on the bike at 23:10

The front view pic is 23:14

Muang is buying cigy at 23:12

If that is a time .

Either Muang jumped off the bike and changed his shirt , walked down street.

Or win jumped off the bike and changed pants.

But at a later time the 3 are walking and not changed clothes

Is 23---- a time stamp or not

jimmybkk · January 8, 2015

jimmybkk, on 08 Jan 2015 - 16:41, said:
You realize that timestamps on CCTV's are not synchronized, right?

You mean different cams will show variations in the time? Are they so different from each other though?

I think it all depends on the system and how diligent the people responsible for the system are I guess. The CCTV in my office gains time and approx. every 6 months or so I have to set it back 30 mins. Right now it's 4 mins fast.

greenchair · January 8, 2015

That is interesting. So the times might be way off. But in the pic of the 3 walking they have not changed clothes.

Anyway even if all the times were wrong they would still need to be in 2 places at one time. Work that one out for yourself.

Chetzee · January 8, 2015

Did you not look at my picks.

Boys on bike 23:10:23

Mystery man 23:14:57

How one of them be on bike and walking at same time almost.

Is the 23:00 not a correct time

Yes I just looked again and I understand what you are saying. In your post 693 - at 23:10:23 hours the three men are on the bike. Win is wearing a black and white tee shirt and long trousers. I can't make out what he has on his feet, if anything.
Then in your post 698 - at 23:14:40 hours, Mystery man, who I have said I think resembles Win, is seen walking down the street. So it could not be Win, unless within those 4 minutes or so (difference in time stamps) he got off the bike and changed into a pair of shorts.

There is no date on the time stamp in post 698. I thought the date always came up on the stills along with the time?

The pic in your post 696 only comes up as a blank page on my 'puter.

Hi , I suspect that the time on your post 698. Is a coincidental close time to the other picture , and infact relates to the online conversation going on with the face in the corner . The time is not embedded in the CCTV at all .

Chetzee · January 8, 2015

boomerangutang, on 08 Jan 2015 - 03:05, said:

Regarding CCTV, missing, destroyed or otherwise, there is the couple walking fast - ahead of one of the 'person of interest' (ahead of the running man with no shirt and shorts). The man is farang and heavyset, the woman is probably Thai and she walks a couple steps behind him. If they were in close vicinity of the crime when it happened, they very likely would have heard screams and shouting. They may have also seen pertinent things. That farang man should be found and questioned, as a possible witness. As for the woman, well, if she's Thai (and particularly if she's a local gal), she knows to keep her mouth shut.

To me that is one of the most relevant pieces of CCTV footage as the couple was pictured walking 3 seconds in front of the running man. Surely they would have seen him?

One poster mentioned they had read that the couple was Chinese. No way is the man Chinese - far too big - he is definitely a westerner.

Wow have you been in China recently ? Lot of fat people . I am sure this guy was spoken to , Chinese or Japanese with a Thai woman

IslandLover · January 8, 2015

Chetzee, on 08 Jan 2015 - 18:08, said:Chetzee, on 08 Jan 2015 - 18:08, said:

IslandLover, on 08 Jan 2015 - 16:58, said:IslandLover, on 08 Jan 2015 - 16:58, said:
boomerangutang, on 08 Jan 2015 - 03:05, said:boomerangutang, on 08 Jan 2015 - 03:05, said:
boomerangutang, on 08 Jan 2015 - 03:05, said:

Regarding CCTV, missing, destroyed or otherwise, there is the couple walking fast - ahead of one of the 'person of interest' (ahead of the running man with no shirt and shorts). The man is farang and heavyset, the woman is probably Thai and she walks a couple steps behind him. If they were in close vicinity of the crime when it happened, they very likely would have heard screams and shouting. They may have also seen pertinent things. That farang man should be found and questioned, as a possible witness. As for the woman, well, if she's Thai (and particularly if she's a local gal), she knows to keep her mouth shut.

To me that is one of the most relevant pieces of CCTV footage as the couple was pictured walking 3 seconds in front of the running man. Surely they would have seen him?

One poster mentioned they had read that the couple was Chinese. No way is the man Chinese - far too big - he is definitely a westerner.

Wow have you been in China recently ? Lot of fat people . I am sure this guy was spoken to , Chinese or Japanese with a Thai woman

Not that tall, surely? Unless he was related to "Odd Job" in the James Bond movies (Ok, I know Odd Job was Korean). Anyway, I thought the Chinese tourists had not yet invaded Koh Tao. There are none in any of the recent photos of the place. Besides that, they usually go to bed early.

Edited January 8, 2015 by IslandLover

jimmybkk · January 8, 2015

Here's the video that some of the stills were taken from and there's a few things interesting here.

At 6:33/8:58 there's a couple on a motorbike at the food stand. Check out their head movements - they are staring at David and then as he passes they look to where he just came from - it's as if he may have had an altercation with someone in the street.

At 6:59/9:58 is the guy in the cap getting food at the stand the same guy in a cap walking with the girl?

And this one is real strange: At 7:09/8:58 David approaches that group (any idea what they are doing?) and as David passes a few of them also turn round to look down the street to where he has just come from. It's as if someone is following him and making a bit of a scene and he's just ignoring them. The strange bit though... is the freakin' CCTV camera follows him! What's that all about?

BritTim · January 8, 2015

Here's the video that some of the stills were taken from and there's a few things interesting here.

At 6:33/8:58 there's a couple on a motorbike at the food stand. Check out their head movements - they are staring at David and then as he passes they look to where he just came from - it's as if he may have had an altercation with someone in the street.

At 6:59/9:58 is the guy in the cap getting food at the stand the same guy in a cap walking with the girl?

And this one is real strange: At 7:09/8:58 David approaches that group (any idea what they are doing?) and as David passes a few of them also turn round to look down the street to where he has just come from. It's as if someone is following him and making a bit of a scene and he's just ignoring them. The strange bit though... is the freakin' CCTV camera follows him! What's that all about?

The strange bit though... is the freakin' CCTV camera follows him! What's that all about?

One explanation, perhaps a long shot, is this. Someone could have been monitoring the CCTV cameras at the time. If he observed some kind of trouble, it would be reasonable for him to pan the camera to a position that allowed him to see what was happening just afterwards. A really long shot is that someone was using the CCTV to monitor David's movements, without being seen to be following him, and alerting people ahead of David as to his movements.

jimmybkk · January 8, 2015

The strange bit though... is the freakin' CCTV camera follows him! What's that all about?

One explanation, perhaps a long shot, is this. Someone could have been monitoring the CCTV cameras at the time. If he observed some kind of trouble, it would be reasonable for him to pan the camera to a position that allowed him to see what was happening just afterwards. A really long shot is that someone was using the CCTV to monitor David's movements, without being seen to be following him, and alerting people ahead of David as to his movements.

Actually I just saw a video of the same footage which revealed that the camera was in fact stationery, the same as all the others. The zoom or pan to follow David had been added afterwards during editing. My mistake. Sorry.

catsanddogs · January 8, 2015

Here's the video that some of the stills were taken from and there's a few things interesting here.

At 6:33/8:58 there's a couple on a motorbike at the food stand. Check out their head movements - they are staring at David and then as he passes they look to where he just came from - it's as if he may have had an altercation with someone in the street.

At 6:59/9:58 is the guy in the cap getting food at the stand the same guy in a cap walking with the girl?

And this one is real strange: At 7:09/8:58 David approaches that group (any idea what they are doing?) and as David passes a few of them also turn round to look down the street to where he has just come from. It's as if someone is following him and making a bit of a scene and he's just ignoring them. The strange bit though... is the freakin' CCTV camera follows him! What's that all about?

The strange bit though... is the freakin' CCTV camera follows him! What's that all about?

One explanation, perhaps a long shot, is this. Someone could have been monitoring the CCTV cameras at the time. If he observed some kind of trouble, it would be reasonable for him to pan the camera to a position that allowed him to see what was happening just afterwards. A really long shot is that someone was using the CCTV to monitor David's movements, without being seen to be following him, and alerting people ahead of David as to his movements.

And this one is real strange: At 7:09/8:58 David approaches that group (any idea what they are doing?) and as David passes a few of them also turn round to look down the street to where he has just come from.

Yes, something's definitely going on there. The group of people are not looking at David but like you say, down the street from where he has just come from. Someone shouting abuse at him maybe? So there we have some witnesses in the street to something at least, even though we have no idea what of. The time is not showing at this point on the CCTV which is a bugger. I still think number 9 might have been passing something to David in the handshake. David looks down at his hand at that moment which seems odd to me.

Dove44 · January 8, 2015

I have been following this from the beginning and the latest chain of posts here are interesting. Whoever you guys are, keep going as you could be getting closer to the truth I hope. Can I just add an observation. The different cctv images are really frustrating to put together. It looks like Mr W who went home early was wearing the other Mr W top (the one on back of bike). However these latest pics of guy in dark top do not look like Mr W who left early. The hairstyle looks different.

Dove44 · January 8, 2015

The couple you refer to..was it not discovered to be married thai lady with westerner and there is an image of her possibly seated as one of Burmese or someone else walking past

Dove44 · January 8, 2015

Can anyone put in a post/folder every image there is available to view so that you can piece them together. All this clothes changing is confusing and I can't figure it out the reasons why? How could they possibly have done so much coming and going if drunk. Sorry for butting in on your posts.

catsanddogs · January 8, 2015

Great stuff jimmy.

At 01:26 am 15/9/14 (6.33 into the vid posted) the couple who are standing at the food stall look round in the direction David is approaching as if something has caught their attention (before David comes into view) -

man and woman turning at food stall.docx

A couple then approach the food stall - the man looks like he might be saying what he wants to the vendor, and the woman drinks water from a bottle -

Doc17.docx

The man looks like it could be Chris Ware -

Doc18.docx

The woman drinking water looks like it could be one of Hannah's friends (The hair style and colour/strapless top/dress) -

Doc18.docx

The other couple who were at the food stand stop looking round after David has passed by and the other couple (man white tee shirt and woman drinking water) are standing next to them. No one else comes into shot following David that I can see. This is all happening at around half one in the morning - a couple of hours before the murder. And then at 7.09 into the video (as jimmy points) out something happens to arouse a group of people and make them stare at whatever is going on behind David as he walks towards them. I can't screenshot that right now as computer keeps mucking up. Anyone else think those two could be Chris Ware and one of Hannah's friends?

Sorry put double pic of Chris Ware up and don't know how to change it. The link at the end of the post is the one of Hannah's friend.

Doc19.docx

Edited January 8, 2015 by catsanddogs

IslandLover · January 8, 2015

thailandchilli, on 06 Jan 2015 - 05:34, said:

greenchair, on 06 Jan 2015 - 05:18, said:
Go to Andy hall fb. Scroll down there are two pictures there. If you have time could you stack them with these 3. But only the picture of Muang. See what that looks like on a timeline with pics . Thaichilli

These 2 you mean from Andys facebook page?

Interesting footage from inside the bar. The man in the bottom right hand corner of the shot (wearing dark blue football shirt) looks like Stingray Man.

loonodingle · January 9, 2015

Great stuff jimmy.

At 01:26 am 15/9/14 (6.33 into the vid posted) the couple who are standing at the food stall look round in the direction David is approaching as if something has caught their attention (before David comes into view) -

man and woman turning at food stall.docx

A couple then approach the food stall - the man looks like he might be saying what he wants to the vendor, and the woman drinks water from a bottle -

Doc17.docx

The man looks like it could be Chris Ware -

Doc18.docx

The woman drinking water looks like it could be one of Hannah's friends (The hair style and colour/strapless top/dress) -

Doc18.docx

The other couple who were at the food stand stop looking round after David has passed by and the other couple (man white tee shirt and woman drinking water) are standing next to them. No one else comes into shot following David that I can see. This is all happening at around half one in the morning - a couple of hours before the murder. And then at 7.09 into the video (as jimmy points) out something happens to arouse a group of people and make them stare at whatever is going on behind David as he walks towards them. I can't screenshot that right now as computer keeps mucking up. Anyone else think those two could be Chris Ware and one of Hannah's friends?

Sorry put double pic of Chris Ware up and don't know how to change it. The link at the end of the post is the one of Hannah's friend.

cats and dogs do you know how to save the stills from video

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