Koh Tao murder trial rescheduled

[boomerangutang]

The police was already on the trail of the three Burmese before Panya's transfer... but don't let facts get on the way of a good conspiracy.

In a sense you're right. From the get-go, Thai officials have wanted to nail Burmese or, 2nd best was farang. Not Thai, and certainly not anyone connected to the headman (except his Burmese employees). Panya (the initial head cop) was doing a lukewarm job of leading the investigation. However, when it became clear he wasn't shielding the Headman's people (and not fingering any Burmese), he was abruptly pulled from the position as top dog. In other countries, including Thailand, if a top official gets started on an important assignment, he/she won't be pulled abruptly away unless that person is doing something very wrong. In this case, the initial top cop was focusing on the Headman's people as prime suspects - a complete no-no. It didn't help that a taxi driver popped up and accused cops of offering to pay Bt.300k to be a false witness, and knocking him around when he refused.

As for 'police already on the trail of the three Burmese' ....the truth is; police had DNA-tested hundreds of Burmese migrants prior, and claimed publicly that "all had been cleared." It's certain that the 3 scapegoats were in that first batch. So, by them getting cleared, and then 'matched' a week later, is further evidence (if any were needed) of a frame-up, and a sloppy one, at that. Similar to the planted phone or the so-called investigation in general, Thai officials aren't even adept at framing up some Burmese migrants.

In the old days, such ruses were much easier to implement. Now, with pesky social media ("Let's sue them all !!") it's more difficult to pull the wool over hundreds of thousands of eyes and ears. Even so, the prosecution only needs to convince one or two judges - who are paid by the same people who pay the cops/officials/prosecution, and who know who wields political/military power in Thailand. Even with so much evidence showing a blatant frame-up, I give the Burmese scapegoats a 50/50 chance of getting acquitted.

As usual, you make things up to cling to a narrative not supported by facts.

Your first paragraph is nothing but self serving make believe, easily disproven by facts such as Thais being in the list of suspects at some time or another, Panya's transfer being scheduled since before the murders, the three Burmese being suspects since before the change in the investigation leadership, etc, etc...

This is false: "It's certain that the 3 scapegoats were in that first batch."

This is false too: "Similar to the planted phone"

This too is false: "Even with so much evidence showing a blatant frame-up" As I explained to you many times, speculation is not evidence.

Before you talk about people pulling the wool over someones eyes, try some honesty in your arguments.

We expect no less from AleG. If the cops said; 'Putz the Beagle did it with a wooden spoon,' AleG would echo that also.

Welcome back AleG, it's fun to have someone to bounce off of. Otherwise it's just a bunch of posters trying to find out what really happened, and hoping the real culprits get hauled off to court to face justice.

[Fat Haggis]

Do you all know how to take snapshots from videos?

You can also use an application called Fraps

[AleG]

The police was already on the trail of the three Burmese before Panya's transfer... but don't let facts get on the way of a good conspiracy.

In a sense you're right. From the get-go, Thai officials have wanted to nail Burmese or, 2nd best was farang. Not Thai, and certainly not anyone connected to the headman (except his Burmese employees). Panya (the initial head cop) was doing a lukewarm job of leading the investigation. However, when it became clear he wasn't shielding the Headman's people (and not fingering any Burmese), he was abruptly pulled from the position as top dog. In other countries, including Thailand, if a top official gets started on an important assignment, he/she won't be pulled abruptly away unless that person is doing something very wrong. In this case, the initial top cop was focusing on the Headman's people as prime suspects - a complete no-no. It didn't help that a taxi driver popped up and accused cops of offering to pay Bt.300k to be a false witness, and knocking him around when he refused.

As for 'police already on the trail of the three Burmese' ....the truth is; police had DNA-tested hundreds of Burmese migrants prior, and claimed publicly that "all had been cleared." It's certain that the 3 scapegoats were in that first batch. So, by them getting cleared, and then 'matched' a week later, is further evidence (if any were needed) of a frame-up, and a sloppy one, at that. Similar to the planted phone or the so-called investigation in general, Thai officials aren't even adept at framing up some Burmese migrants.

In the old days, such ruses were much easier to implement. Now, with pesky social media ("Let's sue them all !!") it's more difficult to pull the wool over hundreds of thousands of eyes and ears. Even so, the prosecution only needs to convince one or two judges - who are paid by the same people who pay the cops/officials/prosecution, and who know who wields political/military power in Thailand. Even with so much evidence showing a blatant frame-up, I give the Burmese scapegoats a 50/50 chance of getting acquitted.

As usual, you make things up to cling to a narrative not supported by facts.

Your first paragraph is nothing but self serving make believe, easily disproven by facts such as Thais being in the list of suspects at some time or another, Panya's transfer being scheduled since before the murders, the three Burmese being suspects since before the change in the investigation leadership, etc, etc...

This is false: "It's certain that the 3 scapegoats were in that first batch."

This is false too: "Similar to the planted phone"

This too is false: "Even with so much evidence showing a blatant frame-up" As I explained to you many times, speculation is not evidence.

Before you talk about people pulling the wool over someones eyes, try some honesty in your arguments.

We expect no less from AleG. If the cops said; 'Putz the Beagle did it with a wooden spoon,' AleG would echo that also.

Welcome back AleG, it's fun to have someone to bounce off of. Otherwise it's just a bunch of posters trying to find out what really happened, and hoping the real culprits get hauled off to court to face justice.

I'm dubious of anyone who wants to know what "really" happened by way of making demonstrably false claims and treating his own speculation as facts.

[loonodingle]

Do you all know how to take snapshots from videos?

You can also use an application called Fraps

On a laptop?

[greenchair]

Let's not forget what this is about

[JLCrab]

What this topic is about -- if you can remember the topic heading -- is that a trial of the 2 Burmese accused will begin this summer. At that point, the defense, at a minimum, may be able to show that any evidence put forward by the prosecution does not warrant a finding of guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

What likely will not happen is that the defense will be able to pull off some Perry Mason courtroom moment by proving that some other person or persons is responsible for these crimes which seems to be the major focus of most of those posting on this and similar topics.

[loonodingle]

What this topic is about -- if you can remember the topic heading -- is that a trial of the 2 Burmese accused will begin this summer. At that point, the defense, at a minimum, may be able to show that any evidence put forward by the prosecution does not warrant a finding of guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

What likely will not happen is that the defense will be able to pull off some Perry Mason courtroom moment by proving that some other person or persons is responsible for these crimes which seems to be the major focus of most of those posting on this and similar topics.

The focus should be on proving they didn't do it.

Its fair and reasonable to expect that in doing that, they may provide evidence that it was probably MR A or B etc

What they should focus on is getting 3rd party verification to disprove the DNA. Its the DNA that will kill them.

A bit of video etc don't do it. There was no video on the beach.

The UK should have done what was agreed my the 2 Prime Ministers. Simple.

Ok Ale G

[greenchair]

What this topic is about -- if you can remember the topic heading -- is that a trial of the 2 Burmese accused will begin this summer. At that point, the defense, at a minimum, may be able to show that any evidence put forward by the prosecution does not warrant a finding of guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

What likely will not happen is that the defense will be able to pull off some Perry Mason courtroom moment by proving that some other person or persons is responsible for these crimes which seems to be the major focus of most of those posting on this and similar topics.

Well sherlock I concur. Which is why I was talking about the picture time 11:12 and 11:14.even if the time is wrong. They cannot be in the same place at the same time. A1 is Muang not win. Muang is wearing a different shirt. The guy with missing jandal is said to be Muang. But it can't be.

Therefore in conclusion the guy with missing jandal is not Muang.

The missing jandal is at the beach. At the crime scene by the rocks. If anybody has time please look through video and snap picture of jandal by rocks. I am sure it is there.

????101

[Eirene]

greenchair...the flip flop could possibly be Hannah's.

[stephen terry]

What this topic is about -- if you can remember the topic heading -- is that a trial of the 2 Burmese accused will begin this summer. At that point, the defense, at a minimum, may be able to show that any evidence put forward by the prosecution does not warrant a finding of guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

What likely will not happen is that the defense will be able to pull off some Perry Mason courtroom moment by proving that some other person or persons is responsible for these crimes which seems to be the major focus of most of those posting on this and similar topics.

The focus should be on proving they didn't do it.

Its fair and reasonable to expect that in doing that, they may provide evidence that it was probably MR A or B etc

What they should focus on is getting 3rd party verification to disprove the DNA. Its the DNA that will kill them.

A bit of video etc don't do it. There was no video on the beach.

The UK should have done what was agreed my the 2 Prime Ministers. Simple.

Ok Ale G

That is false logic. While it is correct to aim to prove they didn't do it because blah, blah, no judge would accept it could have been A or B - that's fantasy without solid proof.

DNA on its own is only circumstantial evidence, it needs more to prove beyond reasonable doubt, but in any event I am hopeful the defence can shred the DNA evidence as being contaminated or not processed independently or whatever.

There was CCTV aimed at the beach from AC bar (as I understand it from a very early report), but these were withheld by the headman, and supported by the RTP as being private property. If the Burmese had been involved, I have no doubt that the CCTV would have been released post-haste.

As to the two PMs, its all rhetoric - a load of BS to appease the masses in both countries.

[boomerangutang]

What this topic is about -- if you can remember the topic heading -- is that a trial of the 2 Burmese accused will begin this summer. At that point, the defense, at a minimum, may be able to show that any evidence put forward by the prosecution does not warrant a finding of guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

What likely will not happen is that the defense will be able to pull off some Perry Mason courtroom moment by proving that some other person or persons is responsible for these crimes which seems to be the major focus of most of those posting on this and similar topics.

You're right. The trial is about the defense trying to get the two acquitted, and the prosecution using all the force (and false evidence) of Thai officialdom to nail 'em. But that addresses what annoys me: Those who really should be suspects, aren't in the legal picture at all. ...and it's highly unlikely they will be, regardless of what happens to the B2. The Headman has been very effective in keeping his people (particularly his family members) free from being scrutinized by Thai officialdom. It's in stark contrast to the past 3 days in France, where French cops did an exemplary job of finding the vile perps. If Thai cops were in Paris, they'd probably be shuffling around the crime scene, looking for some Gypsies or vagrants to pin the murders on.

[Eirene]

Is this the photo you are looking for greenchair? This from an article in komchadluek. Not sure if I am allowed to link. The google translation from Thai to English is terrible. However, one part states '1 piece with blood stain on foot slippers'. Looks to be a thong [flip flop] at the base of the tree on the right side....hard to tell as when enlarged it distorts the image.

Edited January 10, 2015 by Eirene

[JLCrab]

What this topic is about -- if you can remember the topic heading -- is that a trial of the 2 Burmese accused will begin this summer. At that point, the defense, at a minimum, may be able to show that any evidence put forward by the prosecution does not warrant a finding of guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

What likely will not happen is that the defense will be able to pull off some Perry Mason courtroom moment by proving that some other person or persons is responsible for these crimes which seems to be the major focus of most of those posting on this and similar topics.

You're right. The trial is about the defense trying to get the two acquitted, and the prosecution using all the force (and false evidence) of Thai officialdom to nail 'em. But that addresses what annoys me: Those who really should be suspects, aren't in the legal picture at all. ...and it's highly unlikely they will be, regardless of what happens to the B2. The Headman has been very effective in keeping his people (particularly his family members) free from being scrutinized by Thai officialdom. It's in stark contrast to the past 3 days in France, where French cops did an exemplary job of finding the vile perps. If Thai cops were in Paris, they'd probably be shuffling around the crime scene, looking for some Gypsies or vagrants to pin the murders on.

When you say those-who-should-be-on-trial, that is moot point. They are not on trial. And for all your ramblings, those that are on trial may very well be those that should be on trial.

Edited January 10, 2015 by JLCrab

[boomerangutang]

What this topic is about -- if you can remember the topic heading -- is that a trial of the 2 Burmese accused will begin this summer. At that point, the defense, at a minimum, may be able to show that any evidence put forward by the prosecution does not warrant a finding of guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

What likely will not happen is that the defense will be able to pull off some Perry Mason courtroom moment by proving that some other person or persons is responsible for these crimes which seems to be the major focus of most of those posting on this and similar topics.

You're right. The trial is about the defense trying to get the two acquitted, and the prosecution using all the force (and false evidence) of Thai officialdom to nail 'em. But that addresses what annoys me: Those who really should be suspects, aren't in the legal picture at all. ...and it's highly unlikely they will be, regardless of what happens to the B2. The Headman has been very effective in keeping his people (particularly his family members) free from being scrutinized by Thai officialdom. It's in stark contrast to the past 3 days in France, where French cops did an exemplary job of finding the vile perps. If Thai cops were in Paris, they'd probably be shuffling around the crime scene, looking for some Gypsies or vagrants to pin the murders on.

When you say those-who-should-be-on-trial, that is moot point. They are not on trial. And for all your ramblings, those that are on trial may very well be those that should be on trial.

We don't have to agree on everything. It (those who should be on trial) is not a moot point to those who may be the next victims of murder or gang rape. If a tiger kills some village kids, it's not a moot point that the village headman wants all the villagers to think it's a bear. The bear might be in a cage, but the tiger is still out there prowling.

[JLCrab]

... and it's also possible that there have been no killings since the SEP2014 incidents since those that did it are in jail. Your constant saying that the Headman did this and the Headman did that is really ridiculous because you sitting up there in one those Chiangs have no solid idea that the Headman did anything of what you say.

Edited January 10, 2015 by JLCrab

[boomerangutang]

... and it's also possible that there have been no killings since the SEP2014 incidents since those that did it are in jail. Your constant saying that the Headman did this and the Headman did that is really ridiculous because you sitting up there in one those Chiangs have no solid idea that the Headman did anything of what you say.

I haven't said the Headman himself did the crime. I insinuated that his 'people' did it. At the least, the Headman's people should be reinstated as prime suspects. If I venture that the Headman himself did anything untoward, it's probable he put incentives (money and/or valuables) to police brass to shield his people. If you don't believe that, then you probably don't believe that a Thai could have done such a heinous crime - or that Thai VIPs ever bribe other VIPs to get favors.

There has been at least one killing since Sept '14 (the Frenchman), and there could be more. I'm in Chiang Rai, but I have access to the same info anyone else has, except perhaps the Thai cops who are deliberately hiding or destroying evidence. As for Brit experts, they haven't revealed anything - of what they may have re; the crime. NOTHING. They said they would have the inquest on Jan.6, but that was 4 days ago, and now they're saying they'll sit on their butts until October or beyond. Early in the investigation, we heard the Brits were going to the island to investigate. The next day, the Thai PM said, "No, not to investigate, only as observers." It's all moot, because whether Brits are on the scene or off in Beefeater Land, they're doing nothing. Brits = BIG LET-DOWN. Not just for observers like me, but for the backpackers who are still going to Ko Tao, each day they're risking getting killed or raped by men who know they're untouchable.

[JLCrab]

Yea I know. I read it: They can fool some people, but they can't fool you.

[AleG]

... and it's also possible that there have been no killings since the SEP2014 incidents since those that did it are in jail. Your constant saying that the Headman did this and the Headman did that is really ridiculous because you sitting up there in one those Chiangs have no solid idea that the Headman did anything of what you say.

I haven't said the Headman himself did the crime. I insinuated that his 'people' did it. At the least, the Headman's people should be reinstated as prime suspects. If I venture that the Headman himself did anything untoward, it's probable he put incentives (money and/or valuables) to police brass to shield his people. If you don't believe that, then you probably don't believe that a Thai could have done such a heinous crime - or that Thai VIPs ever bribe other VIPs to get favors.

There has been at least one killing since Sept '14 (the Frenchman), and there could be more. I'm in Chiang Rai, but I have access to the same info anyone else has, except perhaps the Thai cops who are deliberately hiding or destroying evidence. As for Brit experts, they haven't revealed anything - of what they may have re; the crime. NOTHING. They said they would have the inquest on Jan.6, but that was 4 days ago, and now they're saying they'll sit on their butts until October or beyond. Early in the investigation, we heard the Brits were going to the island to investigate. The next day, the Thai PM said, "No, not to investigate, only as observers." It's all moot, because whether Brits are on the scene or off in Beefeater Land, they're doing nothing. Brits = BIG LET-DOWN. Not just for observers like me, but for the backpackers who are still going to Ko Tao, each day they're risking getting killed or raped by men who know they're untouchable.

"There has been at least one killing since Sept '14 (the Frenchman)"

You are talking about this?: It’s Official Dimitri Povse’s Death on Koh Tao Deemed a Suicide

You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts; once again you use demonstrably false claims to support your arguments.

[greenchair]

Is this the photo you are looking for greenchair? This from an article in komchadluek. Not sure if I am allowed to link. The google translation from Thai to English is terrible. However, one part states '1 piece with blood stain on foot slippers'. Looks to be a thong [flip flop] at the base of the tree on the right side....hard to tell as when enlarged it distorts the image.

Oh thank you that you are looking. No the one I saw was very clear and I think it was by a rock or a log. It was very clear. Alert alert. We are looking for a jandal, flipflop, thong?????101

[greenchair]

greenchair...the flip flop could possibly be Hannah's.

No the guy walking is missing a jandal. He is A1. A1 is Muang so they say but I don't think A1 is Muang. Will post pic at noon. Stay tuned ??

[thailandchilli]

Is this the photo you are looking for greenchair? This from an article in komchadluek. Not sure if I am allowed to link. The google translation from Thai to English is terrible. However, one part states '1 piece with blood stain on foot slippers'. Looks to be a thong [flip flop] at the base of the tree on the right side....hard to tell as when enlarged it distorts the image.

Oh thank you that you are looking. No the one I saw was very clear and I think it was by a rock or a log. It was very clear. Alert alert. We are looking for a jandal, flipflop, thong?????101

There's this one but they are pink, could belong to Hannah

[jimmybkk]

I was thinking about those trousers that were found in David and Chris Ware's room. Apparently the police tested them and they came back negative for traces of blood, and instead the stains were from "some other chemical substance..." I've been trying to figure out what that other substance could possibly be and why the police would not say what it is.

Then I stumbled across something very interesting:

Apparently there are 2 basic types of bleach found in household cleaning products. The more common type is chlorine-based, and if you soak a bloodstained article of clothing in a chlorine bleach solution it will visually remove the bloodstain but does not remove traces of hemoglobin, and so if the police do a standard test for the presence of blood using luminol or phenolphthalein there will still be traces of hemoglobin which I believe will shine in the presence of a UV light,

The other type of bleach is what they call an oxygen bleach, which uses an oxidizing agent such as hydrogen peroxide, and this type of bleach removes all traces of hemoglobin however the stain on the clothing will still be visible, although somewhat faded:

"To properly assess whether bleach could fully remove blood, researchers soaked some bloodstained clothing in oxygen bleach for a couple of hours. After the bleaching, stains did look faded, although they were still somewhat noticeable. On the other hand, even though there was some visible marking, luminol and phenolphthalein didn't detect the haemoglobin on the clothing."

"The results are worrying because a stain on clothing could be assumed to occur from something else when a test shows up negative for haemoglobin. Eventually, valuable evidence could ultimately be dismissed, which then affects the entire criminal investigation and trial proceedings. Forensics experts will not examine and check for important DNA Evidence until they have initially found an appropriately identified blood sample."

(Source: http://www.exploreforensics.co.uk/detecting-evidence-after-bleaching.html)

So I guess that would mean that a pair of heavily bloodstained trousers, in the space of only a couple of hours in a oxygen bleach solution, could end up looking something like this:

Trousers.jpg

I wonder if the DNA from the blood would still be present after bleaching. I also wonder where those trousers may be now...

In a previous post AleG managed to convince me that the trousers had not been planted, but even if he's wrong, how the hell could the Burmese lads get access to David and Chris' room? This looks like a smoking gun to me...

I think someone needs to be having a chat with this young man:

Chris Ware.jpg

I read early reports saying that 2 of their friends confirmed these were the trousers that Chris Ware was wearing that night. In the CCTV footage he is seen wearing shorts, but then I think I read that he went back to the room with David, then David said he was going out to buy a pack of smokes and actually went looking for Hannah at AC Bar. It would not surprise me to learn that when David didn't come back Chris went out looking for him - I wonder what he wore when/if he went out a second time...

Was he not the guy that was reported as being gay...?

I think you are way of mark here. If that was blood they would know. Do you honestly think after 3 Asian DNA is found on Hannah that you can peddled this. The slightest chance of him being Involved and they would have had him. UNLIKE Sean McAnna who left the island with a fanfare and pictures with the police chief.

I think it strange that Chris Ware left the island so fast. Even if he had a flight booked, I think the circumstances warrant changing the flight. IMO the right thing to do would be to stick around, answer any questions the police may have that may assist them with finding the killers, take care of David's personal belongings, and, most importantly, be there to offer some comfort to the parents of your childhood friend when they arrive in a place they're probably unfamiliar and when they're no doubt going through the most horrific event of their lives. I have no doubt the sight of a familiar face would have been of great comfort to them.

In fact, did any of Hannah's friends stay to meet her parents when they arrived? If not I find that also somewhat odd, and lacking in compassion,

Ware's friends say he was wearing the trousers. He makes a run for the airport as fast as his legs can carry him after answering initial police questions. He gets stopped at the airport when they find the trousers. When they test the trousers for blood the test shows negative and he is allowed to leave.

I think it safe to assume that if the stains on the trousers were found to be Hannah's blood he would be locked up now and everyone would see it as an open and shut case. Has he ever said what caused the stain? He was wearing the trousers, so you would think he would know. If there's a simple explanation it would make sense for him to make it public to remove any suspicion. I personally have never had stains like that on any trousers I have owned, and I suspect neither have most people, so what are the chances of a pair of trousers showing up with stains like that on the lower legs on the night that a bloody double homicide occurs.... well, let's just say if the stains aren't blood then it's an incredibly bizarre coincidence.

DNA testing is expensive, time consuming and most testing labs have a backlog of evidence waiting to be tested, so it is logical that if the police were to send everything they find that resembles a bloodstain to the DNA lab for testing there will be additional expense and the backlog at the labs would just get worse. So instead the standard procedure that police forensics follow is to do presumptive tests on any stain that they think could be a blood stain. If the presumptive tests show positive for blood the item gets sent to the lab for analysis. If the test shows negative that's the end of it.

The police have only said that the stain was found not to be blood but some other chemical substance, which sounds a lot like they just did a presumptive test which showed up negative. The difference between Christopher Ware being locked up in Thailand and being free in the UK now is the result of that presumptive test, and in the link I posted it explains that it is possible to beat that test by soaking in an oxygen bleach solution for a couple of hours. That ain't rocket science.

This article suggests that oxygen bleach may not remove the DNA from bloodstains. If it's possible I would think that the defense team should request access to those trousers to conduct their own tests.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=15&ved=0CDAQFjAEOAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdownloads.hindawi.com%2Fjournals%2Ftswj%2F2010%2F825464.pdf&ei=IqKvVNP3FZKgugTz3oH4BA&usg=AFQjCNEnQn3XHBpswrElH7sD0AdJwByd4w&cad=rja

And I still think someone should have a chat with Mr Ware, if only to hear his side of the story.

[greenchair]

Is this the photo you are looking for greenchair? This from an article in komchadluek. Not sure if I am allowed to link. The google translation from Thai to English is terrible. However, one part states '1 piece with blood stain on foot slippers'. Looks to be a thong [flip flop] at the base of the tree on the right side....hard to tell as when enlarged it distorts the image.

Oh thank you that you are looking. No the one I saw was very clear and I think it was by a rock or a log. It was very clear. Alert alert. We are looking for a jandal, flipflop, thong?????101

There's this one but they are pink, could belong to Hannah

No that's hannah flips.

The one I saw is black or dark green or grey. By a rock on it's side. ????101. Find the flipflop

[boomerangutang]

re; C.Ware leaving Ko Tao: I don't think it's unusual for him to leave quickly. Anyone not naive would know that a murder on an island controlled by a few mafia-like families - is a recipe for a dangerous mix - with residual effects

"There has been at least one killing since Sept '14 (the Frenchman)"

You are talking about this?: Its Official Dimitri Povses Death on Koh Tao Deemed a Suicide

You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts; once again you use demonstrably false claims to support your arguments.

Are u saying it's a 'fact' that the Frenchman was not killed? I'm sure, by now (being so eager to ape everything the police claim), you've demonstrated how a man can tightly tie his hands behind his back with a shoestring, and hang himself, with no displaced furniture in the room. No chairs, stools, tables, kicked aside. Edited January 10, 2015 by boomerangutang

[Eirene]

From what I read those were Davids pants. David and his friends arrived on August 25th. The Wares left to the airport on the Sept.17th. a day after the police told them they could leave. Personaly I wouldn't be sticking around either...they had already tried to pin the murder on him.

@greenchair - I do not see any flip flop missing in the video stills of this fellow wearing black....if that is who you are referring to.

[JLCrab]

According to The Nation report 5 JAN the sting was tied 'loosely' behind the Frenchman's back and that a suicide note was found written in French.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Frenchman-found-hung-in-Koh-Tao-foul-play-suspecte-30251171.html

(Maybe) Koh Tao Bulletin: Wanted -- Frenchman who can write phony suicide note in French -- call Headman ASAP.

[boomerangutang]

The majority of the posters are focused on people that they want to be guilty. Not on the facts

We're trying to discern what is useful info. And yes, you're nearly correct: the majority or us are focusing on those who should be prime suspects. However, we've got to address the issues surrounding the scapegoats, because Thai officials have thrust the B2 in the headlines. What we'd really like is for Thai officials to do their jobs. Granted, Thai cops aren't trained to do professional crime investigation, so we don't expect the sort of quality investigation we'd expect from the French or Americans (I've dropped the Brits from that comparison, because they've been 'out to lunch' on the Ko Tao investigation). Perhaps Thai investigators don't have tools as their European counterparts (they already admitted they can't properly process DNA in Thailand), yet foreign better-equipped officials would be glad to assist the Thais in the Ko Tao investigation. Yet, Thai officialdom has made it clear it doesn't want professional outside help. The reason fits with all else they've said and done since the replacement head cop showed up early in the investigation: Thai officials have been dead-set against any evidence which might implicate the Headman's people.

[AleG]

re; C.Ware leaving Ko Tao: I don't think it's unusual for him to leave quickly. Anyone not naive would know that a murder on an island controlled by a few mafia-like families - is a recipe for a dangerous mix - with residual effects

"There has been at least one killing since Sept '14 (the Frenchman)"

You are talking about this?: Its Official Dimitri Povses Death on Koh Tao Deemed a Suicide

You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts; once again you use demonstrably false claims to support your arguments.

Are u saying it's a 'fact' that the Frenchman was not killed? I'm sure, by now (being so eager to ape everything the police claim), you've demonstrated how a man can tightly tie his hands behind his back with a shoestring, and hang himself, with no displaced furniture in the room. No chairs, stools, tables, kicked aside.

He hung himself outside the room, you don't even know that and yet claim as a fact that it was murder; you should leave this detective work thing to people that can deal with reality.

[boomerangutang]

According to The Nation report 5 JAN the sting was tied 'loosely' behind the Frenchman's back and that a suicide note was found written in French.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Frenchman-found-hung-in-Koh-Tao-foul-play-suspecte-30251171.html

(Maybe) Koh Tao Bulletin: Wanted -- Frenchman who can write phony suicide note in French -- call Headman ASAP.

I think your typing got ahead of your wit. Wouldn't you rather have written....

Wanted -- Thai who can write phony suicide note in French -- call Headman ASAP.

btw, look closely at the photo of black string (bootstring?) used to tie the hands at the wrists. It's quite tight.

Are Thai cops also gonna spin a false story on that tragic death? It wouldn't surprise most of us posting here.

Edited January 10, 2015 by boomerangutang

[AleG]

I think it strange that Chris Ware left the island so fast. Even if he had a flight booked, I think the circumstances warrant changing the flight. IMO the right thing to do would be to stick around, answer any questions the police may have that may assist them with finding the killers, take care of David's personal belongings, and, most importantly, be there to offer some comfort to the parents of your childhood friend when they arrive in a place they're probably unfamiliar and when they're no doubt going through the most horrific event of their lives. I have no doubt the sight of a familiar face would have been of great comfort to them.

In fact, did any of Hannah's friends stay to meet her parents when they arrived? If not I find that also somewhat odd, and lacking in compassion,

Ware's friends say he was wearing the trousers. He makes a run for the airport as fast as his legs can carry him after answering initial police questions. He gets stopped at the airport when they find the trousers. When they test the trousers for blood the test shows negative and he is allowed to leave.

I think it safe to assume that if the stains on the trousers were found to be Hannah's blood he would be locked up now and everyone would see it as an open and shut case. Has he ever said what caused the stain? He was wearing the trousers, so you would think he would know. If there's a simple explanation it would make sense for him to make it public to remove any suspicion. I personally have never had stains like that on any trousers I have owned, and I suspect neither have most people, so what are the chances of a pair of trousers showing up with stains like that on the lower legs on the night that a bloody double homicide occurs.... well, let's just say if the stains aren't blood then it's an incredibly bizarre coincidence.

DNA testing is expensive, time consuming and most testing labs have a backlog of evidence waiting to be tested, so it is logical that if the police were to send everything they find that resembles a bloodstain to the DNA lab for testing there will be additional expense and the backlog at the labs would just get worse. So instead the standard procedure that police forensics follow is to do presumptive tests on any stain that they think could be a blood stain. If the presumptive tests show positive for blood the item gets sent to the lab for analysis. If the test shows negative that's the end of it.

The police have only said that the stain was found not to be blood but some other chemical substance, which sounds a lot like they just did a presumptive test which showed up negative. The difference between Christopher Ware being locked up in Thailand and being free in the UK now is the result of that presumptive test, and in the link I posted it explains that it is possible to beat that test by soaking in an oxygen bleach solution for a couple of hours. That ain't rocket science.

This article suggests that oxygen bleach may not remove the DNA from bloodstains. If it's possible I would think that the defense team should request access to those trousers to conduct their own tests.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=15&ved=0CDAQFjAEOAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdownloads.hindawi.com%2Fjournals%2Ftswj%2F2010%2F825464.pdf&ei=IqKvVNP3FZKgugTz3oH4BA&usg=AFQjCNEnQn3XHBpswrElH7sD0AdJwByd4w&cad=rja

And I still think someone should have a chat with Mr Ware, if only to hear his side of the story.

There's just one little problem with your grand theory, the pants were Miller's not Ware's:

"As for the pair of stained pants found in Miller's luggage, the general admitted that the substance found on the clothing was not blood and that they belonged to Miller"