Booming high seasons are but a memory for Pattaya hotels

[Rimmer]

Booming high seasons are but a memory for Pattaya hotels

PATTAYA:--It used to be that “high season” - the middle of October through the end of Songkran in April - was when Pattaya’s hotels were full, the beaches packed and shopping malls bustling. But high season hasn’t resembled what people remember for years.

This year marks another high season in which hotels are, if not happy, then relieved to say they are “getting by.” It seems that, in 21st century Thailand, there is always something to derail good fortune.

In 2010, it was deadly riots in Bangkok. In 2011, it was calamitous nationwide flooding. In 2013, Bangkok was “shut down” by street protests. And, in 2014, it’s been more protests, a military coup and, most recently, a crashing Russian ruble.

Tourists from Russia - who accounted for 6 percent of all tourists nationwide last year and a far higher percentage in Pattaya - are off 5.9 percent this year through November. With the ruble’s historic depreciation, Russian arrivals fell 21 percent in November and 19 percent in October. December likely will see similar drops, if not more.

- See more at: http://www.pattayamail.com/localnews/booming-high-seasons-are-but-a-memory-for-pattaya-hotels-44021#sthash.cpI5Z4K4.dpuf

-- Pattaya Mail 2015-01-02

[kaiyaibob]

"In 2010, it was deadly riots in Bangkok. In 2011, it was calamitous nationwide flooding. In 2013, Bangkok was “shut down” by street protests. And, in 2014, it’s been more protests, a military coup and, most recently, a crashing Russian ruble."

No impact on tourism by the endemic corruption and the all to regular murder of foreigners then??

[maapaa]

I fear, not. Because I really doubt that many of these stories make headlines out of Thailand. :-(

[Tony Pepperoni]

It will drive prices down. There are too many hotels that were built to meet the demand, but no more demand. Same situation in Ko Chang the beaches were mostly empty and dark at night.

[clockman]

The golden goose, has been dying for years. Killed by greed. A third world country. Charging first world prices.!

[Kerryd]

A couple days ago I asked a friend of mine how his resort hotel was doing (in Jomtien). Seems he's not hurting for guests, but they are mostly Russian and very cheap. Another friend owns a couple of businesses on Walking Street. Same thing, even when there are lots of customers, they are of the sort that will nurse a single drink for 2 hours (when they aren't trying to walk away while conveniently forgetting to pay their bin), or just window shop and spend nothing at all.

The change in the demographic has been discussed previously, and is being felt all across the city. Even as early as 7-8 years ago things were considerably different. Many of the hotel/bar/restaurant owners I know were fairly flush, and were themselves spending a lot. The trickle down effect was quite noticeable as all manner of people from business owners to bike mechanics and bar-band members were buying big bikes and travelling around the country. Most of you have seen the non-stop construction of those shop house/apartment buildings around the city, many of which were started back in those days and now sit unsold and empty (though it seems even more are being built). Quite a few businesses and buildings were started up back then when it seemed that money was flowing into the city by the planeload (literally). (LoL at Ocean Tower.)

But the tap has been drying up over the last few years. Just as the main tourist related businesses aren't doing so great anymore, neither are the trickle down ones like the restaurants, bike shops and shop houses. Last week I drove through an area I'd lived in 10 years ago and noticed a lot of the local laundry and seamstress shops were gone. You still see lots of tourists around, but they aren't spending like the ones that used to be the majority. Sin City makes most of it's money from sin (obviously) but any city that is thriving in bodies that aren't spending money, isn't going to do well regardless of what it's main attractions are.

Disney Land/World would go broke overnight if these same tourists started thronging there instead. Everywhere you'd look would be packed with bodies, but the rides and attractions would be idle as no one would be buying tickets (except for the Chinese tour groups who would spend 1 hour and get to go on 1 ride before being herded off to the next venue). Imagine Mardi Gras with 10s of thousands of people in the streets, but no one partying, dining, drinking or throwing beads. Imagine Vegas where crowds of people would be clustered around the gaming tables, watching the one (Westerner) gamble while everyone else yells and shouts at him to try and get him to play their number or whatever (and then try to claim his winnings). Any of the shows (Celine/Britney/Penn & Teller/etc) that didn't come free with a room or tour deal would be empty and the free admission ones would be packed with people spending absolutely nothing (but wanting everything).

All of those tourist-orientated destinations rely on the same thing, people spending money. If you target your tourism campaigns towards groups that tend to be pretty tightfisted with the coin, then expect to see a significant drop in revenues and not just in the "tourist related" sectors.

I'll tell you now, the crowds I see on Walking Street over the last couple of weeks are not paying for many sick buffalo (or anything else) in Isaan (or anywhere else).

[yellowboat]

Thailand is just not a friendly place anymore. The woes of Thailand are being felt in Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam too. Bangkok airports are usually the first entry point for most tourists visiting other south east Asian countries.

[Just1Voice]

It will drive prices down. There are too many hotels that were built to meet the demand, but no more demand. Same situation in Ko Chang the beaches were mostly empty and dark at night.

Apparently you haven't been here very long. Or at least long enough to know that when business is bad, Thai don't LOWER their prices to attract more customers, but, instead RAISE their prices to gouge more money out of what customers then can get.

[Johnnie99]

It will drive prices down. There are too many hotels that were built to meet the demand, but no more demand. Same situation in Ko Chang the beaches were mostly empty and dark at night.

Apparently you haven't been here very long. Or at least long enough to know that when business is bad, Thai don't LOWER their prices to attract more customers, but, instead RAISE their prices to gouge more money out of what customers then can get.

I am so glad someone actually put that in writing.

Hotels, goods and services should be at rock bottom prices but they increase. Greed of the most egregious kind.

Thais sadly have no idea at all about the most simple, most basic economic premise.

Edited January 2, 2015 by Johnnie99

[Lupatria]

The author is at risk to be thrown off a Pattaya balcony for blasphemy towards the TAT

[bongoz]

Thailand is just not a friendly place anymore. The woes of Thailand are being felt in Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam too. Bangkok airports are usually the first entry point for most tourists visiting other south east Asian countries.

I think you need to check your facts, Cambodia tourist numbers are increasing around the 6% mark for 2014 - to 4.5 million. Airlines that fly into Cambodia are increasing their flights and routes. So Cambodia definitely isn't going backwards like Thailand.

edit: spelling

Edited January 2, 2015 by bongoz

[MrWorldwide]

I just want them to start toughening up on ladyboys, particularly those from Laos and the PI. This town has a massive oversupply of everything except effective policing, and the katoey explosion has to be the most visible sign of that malaise. If the cops in Bangkok are prepared to chase katoey freelancers down Suk Soi 4, completely ignoring their female colleagues laughing at the spectacle from the Nana carpark, then clearly there is a law against the 'third sex' soliciting in a public place. As for the Filipinos, one can only imagine what kind of visa they've arrived here on - an easy target for an immigration raid. Anyone who feels I'm being unduly harsh on the katoey population has to know how prominently they feature in crimes against foreigners, particularly newbie tourists - hardly an incentive for the tourists to come back if and when things do improve in their home countries.

I know none of this will happen - money changes hands and a lot of that money ends up down at BiB HQ - but I can dream.

[yellowboat]

Thailand is just not a friendly place anymore. The woes of Thailand are being felt in Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam too. Bangkok airports are usually the first entry point for most tourists visiting other south east Asian countries.

I think you need to check your facts, Cambodia tourist numbers are increasing around the 6% mark for 2014 - to 4.5 million. Airlines that fly into Cambodia are increasing their flights and routes. So Cambodia definitely isn't going backwards like Thailand.

edit: spelling

I did. Though you are correct that tourism is doing better year by year in Cambodia, this year's busy season is lower than last year. That is according to guest houses operating in Siem Reap and Sihanouk Ville who have been in business 8 years or more.

[willyumiii]

I haven't been there in about 10 years and remember it booming...almost too much!

I have a friend visiting ( first time) from America, in about a month and thought we would spend a couple or three days there.

Are these changes making Pattaya a better place for a tourist than before, or worse?

Are prices dropping as one poster stated or are they using Thai logic and raising prices since business is low?

This is a serious inquiry.

Any serious input would be appreciated.

[bikerbri]

I remember the Asian economic crisis,when the Baht was 68-70 to the pound. What did the bars do to make up there losses? They doubled the price of a beer from 40baht to 80 baht. Thailand is vastly overpriced.The Baht is overvalued and the service is getting worse.Greed is overtaking common sense.

[thailiketoo]

I remember the Asian economic crisis,when the Baht was 68-70 to the pound. What did the bars do to make up there losses? They doubled the price of a beer from 40baht to 80 baht. Thailand is vastly overpriced.The Baht is overvalued and the service is getting worse.Greed is overtaking common sense.

Ya that's why one bedroom condos rent for $120 dollars a month. Lots of better deals by the beach in Florida.

[Don Aleman]

No gambling, no Disney type attractions, almost everywhere - no smoking, no bar action after midnight, few vendors left on the beaches to bring you cool drinks/massage, no walkable sidewalks, gunshots in the night, no crosswalks, no public toilets --------------------- Thailand , the land of NO !

[thailiketoo]

Thailand is just not a friendly place anymore. The woes of Thailand are being felt in Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam too. Bangkok airports are usually the first entry point for most tourists visiting other south east Asian countries.

Seems to me the less Russians the more friendly.

[gandalf12]

The trouble, or a big part of the trouble, is the international news sees people "practicing flying without an aircraft and failing" plus foreigners being murdered and they think "why go to such a dangerous place?". Most countries protect the tourists as they are a valuable source of revenue for the country.

In Thailand most foreign deaths are quickly written off as suicides or the nearest people that can be found are accused without any proof.

Years ago in Cyprus tourists were being robbed on the beach. The police rounded they known suspects up and in no uncertain terms told them to leave the tourists alone or they would regret it. Crime on the beach dropped to zero (almost) overnight.

Thailand seems reluctant to ensure the safety of visitors. Most visitors assume that because they are on holiday the police will ensure their safety. I am not saying the police dont do anything that would be unjustified but a lot more could be done. You have to treat tourists as guests not just as money on legs

[MrWorldwide]

No gambling, no Disney type attractions, almost everywhere - no smoking, no bar action after midnight, few vendors left on the beaches to bring you cool drinks/massage, no walkable sidewalks, gunshots in the night, no crosswalks, no public toilets --------------------- Thailand , the land of NO !

No smoking ? Seriously ? No bar action after midnight ? Not sure what kind of action you're looking for, but if I want to I can drink till the sun comes up and beyond at a bar less than 100m from my front door here in central Pattaya - I dont do it very often, but the option is there (and Thai beers are still 55-60 baht a bottle for the financially minded). If you're talking sex, that comes down to getting a few contacts and being willing to accept that in high season some of the girls might disappear for a week or so - no biggie. As for gambling, its here if you really want it, but personally its one of the vices I believe most visitors can happily do without.

Also not sure that Pattaya really needs 'Disney type attractions' when it has the Walking Street freak show every night, but if you are claiming that you cant get booze or company here after midnight I have to ask how often you've even visited the nightlife precinct.

[Longstaff]

I don't know how far / wide / fast local news travels, but on the basis of this website and the proportion of news items about Pattaya of a negative nature and with a negative impact on farang residents and visitors, I can't say I'm in a desperate rush to come for a visit.

[bongoz]

I don't know how far / wide / fast local news travels, but on the basis of this website and the proportion of news items about Pattaya of a negative nature and with a negative impact on farang residents and visitors, I can't say I'm in a desperate rush to come for a visit.

You haven't lived until you have been to sin city...

deep, dark, mysterious and scary and that's during the day!

[KOZMO]

I don't know how far / wide / fast local news travels, but on the basis of this website and the proportion of news items about Pattaya of a negative nature and with a negative impact on farang residents and visitors, I can't say I'm in a desperate rush to come for a visit.

I am ready to go back to the old USA!!! Five months and enough BS for this time. I visit my son and grandson every year. but the last 6 years has been getting worse with changes in immigration. Supposed searches? Been lucky, not yet. The way these idiots drive, if you can call it driving. Just an overall change in the Thai attitude, Years ago I wished about living here. Now, never happen!!! Thailand is not making any good points to the "Civilized World"

[OMGImInPattaya]

I just want them to start toughening up on ladyboys, particularly those from Laos and the PI. This town has a massive oversupply of everything except effective policing, and the katoey explosion has to be the most visible sign of that malaise. If the cops in Bangkok are prepared to chase katoey freelancers down Suk Soi 4, completely ignoring their female colleagues laughing at the spectacle from the Nana carpark, then clearly there is a law against the 'third sex' soliciting in a public place. As for the Filipinos, one can only imagine what kind of visa they've arrived here on - an easy target for an immigration raid. Anyone who feels I'm being unduly harsh on the katoey population has to know how prominently they feature in crimes against foreigners, particularly newbie tourists - hardly an incentive for the tourists to come back if and when things do improve in their home countries.

I know none of this will happen - money changes hands and a lot of that money ends up down at BiB HQ - but I can dream.

Yes, this drop in the Russian tourist numbers because of the crash in the Rubble is very good news indeed. You might be surprised to learn that the huskie Ruskies are big ladyboy lovers and were providing some stiff (pun most certainly intended) competition for the hottest ladyboys in town. Now that they many have disappeared, it's putting the local ladyboy fans back in the driver seat.

As to the foreign ladyboy contingent now working in Pattaya, this too is a most welcome development as now there is now need for us locals to travel to the Philippines to meet-up with Filipina ladyboys. And of course, the lovely Laos have always been well represented around town. Who could have predicted the 2015 AEC economic integration would work such wonders.

Edited January 2, 2015 by OMGImInPattaya

[Thunder26]

A couple days ago I asked a friend of mine how his resort hotel was doing (in Jomtien). Seems he's not hurting for guests, but they are mostly Russian and very cheap. Another friend owns a couple of businesses on Walking Street. Same thing, even when there are lots of customers, they are of the sort that will nurse a single drink for 2 hours (when they aren't trying to walk away while conveniently forgetting to pay their bin), or just window shop and spend nothing at all.

The change in the demographic has been discussed previously, and is being felt all across the city. Even as early as 7-8 years ago things were considerably different. Many of the hotel/bar/restaurant owners I know were fairly flush, and were themselves spending a lot. The trickle down effect was quite noticeable as all manner of people from business owners to bike mechanics and bar-band members were buying big bikes and travelling around the country. Most of you have seen the non-stop construction of those shop house/apartment buildings around the city, many of which were started back in those days and now sit unsold and empty (though it seems even more are being built). Quite a few businesses and buildings were started up back then when it seemed that money was flowing into the city by the planeload (literally). (LoL at Ocean Tower.)

But the tap has been drying up over the last few years. Just as the main tourist related businesses aren't doing so great anymore, neither are the trickle down ones like the restaurants, bike shops and shop houses. Last week I drove through an area I'd lived in 10 years ago and noticed a lot of the local laundry and seamstress shops were gone. You still see lots of tourists around, but they aren't spending like the ones that used to be the majority. Sin City makes most of it's money from sin (obviously) but any city that is thriving in bodies that aren't spending money, isn't going to do well regardless of what it's main attractions are.

Disney Land/World would go broke overnight if these same tourists started thronging there instead. Everywhere you'd look would be packed with bodies, but the rides and attractions would be idle as no one would be buying tickets (except for the Chinese tour groups who would spend 1 hour and get to go on 1 ride before being herded off to the next venue). Imagine Mardi Gras with 10s of thousands of people in the streets, but no one partying, dining, drinking or throwing beads. Imagine Vegas where crowds of people would be clustered around the gaming tables, watching the one (Westerner) gamble while everyone else yells and shouts at him to try and get him to play their number or whatever (and then try to claim his winnings). Any of the shows (Celine/Britney/Penn & Teller/etc) that didn't come free with a room or tour deal would be empty and the free admission ones would be packed with people spending absolutely nothing (but wanting everything).

All of those tourist-orientated destinations rely on the same thing, people spending money. If you target your tourism campaigns towards groups that tend to be pretty tightfisted with the coin, then expect to see a significant drop in revenues and not just in the "tourist related" sectors.

I'll tell you now, the crowds I see on Walking Street over the last couple of weeks are not paying for many sick buffalo (or anything else) in Isaan (or anywhere else).

I think the main reason is that it is not as cheap as it used to be. Thai Baht hasn't lost its value for the last 10 years, even it gained slightly, while the prices have doubled up for the same period. Hotel prices became ridiculously high if to compare with a few years back.

[OMGImInPattaya]

No gambling, no Disney type attractions, almost everywhere - no smoking, no bar action after midnight, few vendors left on the beaches to bring you cool drinks/massage, no walkable sidewalks, gunshots in the night, no crosswalks, no public toilets --------------------- Thailand , the land of NO !

So stay in Peoria.

[Sviss Geez]

"In 2010, it was deadly riots in Bangkok. In 2011, it was calamitous nationwide flooding. In 2013, Bangkok was “shut down” by street protests. And, in 2014, it’s been more protests, a military coup and, most recently, a crashing Russian ruble."

No impact on tourism by the endemic corruption and the all to regular murder of foreigners then??

"All the regular murders of foreigners in Pattaya? Such as?

[OMGImInPattaya]

I don't know how far / wide / fast local news travels, but on the basis of this website and the proportion of news items about Pattaya of a negative nature and with a negative impact on farang residents and visitors, I can't say I'm in a desperate rush to come for a visit.

I am ready to go back to the old USA!!! Five months and enough BS for this time. I visit my son and grandson every year. but the last 6 years has been getting worse with changes in immigration. Supposed searches? Been lucky, not yet. The way these idiots drive, if you can call it driving. Just an overall change in the Thai attitude, Years ago I wished about living here. Now, never happen!!! Thailand is not making any good points to the "Civilized World"

What specific changes in immigration are you referring to? If anything, they have gotten easier, especially for developed country tourists like Americans. I don't recall any immigration changes over the past 6 years that would make it more difficult for an American visiting Thailand as a tourist. Again, what searches do you refer? I've lived in Bangkok and Pattaya for 15 years and never been stopped, let alone searched, by the police. As to driving, I've been slightly rear-ended once in over 10 years of driving in Thailand, while in America, I was rear-ended (not from a ladyboy) but by mmaniacaldrivers, the last one who totaled my vehicle and took off without stopping, leaving me for dead for all he/she knew. No, I think I prefer driving in Thailand thank you.

So do you have any facts or specific examples to support your opinions or are you just a Debby Downer on Pattaya and party of the down on Pattaya brigade.

[Mudcrab]

I don't know how far / wide / fast local news travels, but on the basis of this website and the proportion of news items about Pattaya of a negative nature and with a negative impact on farang residents and visitors, I can't say I'm in a desperate rush to come for a visit.

I am ready to go back to the old USA!!! Five months and enough BS for this time. I visit my son and grandson every year. but the last 6 years has been getting worse with changes in immigration. Supposed searches? Been lucky, not yet. The way these idiots drive, if you can call it driving. Just an overall change in the Thai attitude, Years ago I wished about living here. Now, never happen!!! Thailand is not making any good points to the "Civilized World"

What specific changes in immigration are you referring to? If anything, they have gotten easier, especially for developed country tourists like Americans. I don't recall any immigration changes over the past 6 years that would make it more difficult for an American visiting Thailand as a tourist. Again, what searches do you refer? I've lived in Bangkok and Pattaya for 15 years and never been stopped, let alone searched, by the police. As to driving, I've been slightly rear-ended once in over 10 years of driving in Thailand, while in America, I was rear-ended (not from a ladyboy) but by mmaniacaldrivers, the last one who totaled my vehicle and took off without stopping, leaving me for dead for all he/she knew. No, I think I prefer driving in Thailand thank you.

So do you have any facts or specific examples to support your opinions or are you just a Debby Downer on Pattaya and party of the down on Pattaya brigade.

I'm curious...what visa extension do you stay on?

[KOZMO]

I don't know how far / wide / fast local news travels, but on the basis of this website and the proportion of news items about Pattaya of a negative nature and with a negative impact on farang residents and visitors, I can't say I'm in a desperate rush to come for a visit.

I am ready to go back to the old USA!!! Five months and enough BS for this time. I visit my son and grandson every year. but the last 6 years has been getting worse with changes in immigration. Supposed searches? Been lucky, not yet. The way these idiots drive, if you can call it driving. Just an overall change in the Thai attitude, Years ago I wished about living here. Now, never happen!!! Thailand is not making any good points to the "Civilized World"

What specific changes in immigration are you referring to? If anything, they have gotten easier, especially for developed country tourists like Americans. I don't recall any immigration changes over the past 6 years that would make it more difficult for an American visiting Thailand as a tourist. Again, what searches do you refer? I've lived in Bangkok and Pattaya for 15 years and never been stopped, let alone searched, by the police. As to driving, I've been slightly rear-ended once in over 10 years of driving in Thailand, while in America, I was rear-ended (not from a ladyboy) but by mmaniacaldrivers, the last one who totaled my vehicle and took off without stopping, leaving me for dead for all he/she knew. No, I think I prefer driving in Thailand thank you.

So do you have any facts or specific examples to support your opinions or are you just a Debby Downer on Pattaya and party of the down on Pattaya brigade.

I'm curious...what visa extension do you stay on?

I come over on a type 0 non immigrant visa for 3 months. at first I was able to extend 90 days no problem. then the next year only 60 days and finally this year I had to leave the country and come back on a tourist visa and I got a 30 day extension for the holidays. korat immigration was ridiculous with so many people and only 15 ques in the am and pm