French man found hanged in Koh Tao with his hands tied behind his back – foul play suspected

[BritTim]

Two stupid questions (apologies in advance)

1. How in the world does one tie one's hands behind one's back... that would seem to require some Houdini-like dexterity

2. How does one put a noose around one's neck with one's hands tied behind one's back?

There's obviously a lot for me to learn in this world...

There are two main techniques (note: do not apply in this case as the characteristics are wrong)

• You can put the noose over your head first, then tie the hands in front of you (perhaps using your teeth to help) before stepping through to place the hands behind you. This requires very good balance to avoid hanging yourself prematurely.
• Easier is to tie a very loose slip knot around one hand, put the noose over your head, place your hands behind your back and work your free hand through the gap in the very loose slip knot before tightening.

[Incobart]

I would guess people who are murdered then staged to look like suicide happens more times here than we'd like to think. RIP.

If it was staged to look like a suicide you would think that the murderer would have at least untied his hands before leaving

not necessary, they know police would not think so far

[sabaitoo]

It should be noted that the first article only mentioned that it was a suicide, however someone downloaded one of the picture and zoomed in on the hands clearly tied behind the persons back...this info was send to CSILA and A.D, later more pictures from the scene were posted on CSILA ...only after this did the articles mentioned that hands tied behind the back....

It was originally solved as a suicide..until social media hit on it.. ( TV was late ;-) )

I shall not go into details of the pictures, only mention that if was in a civilized country, with the clearly visibly indications, this person would have been cut down and CPR/ Resuscitation tried..

To me it does not look like a suicide ( even if all Koh Tao friend may claim so )

[Anthony5]

STOP! with the Burmese jokes for God's sake.......any Idea how stupid you come across as being?

+1

+2

Have you noticed how many likes you get when you make a silly Burmese joke?

[dbrenn]

Maybe he tied his own hands behind his back before he hung himself, or maybe the cops are making it up as they go along.

Things like this happen in Thailand

??? What do you mean the police may be making it up? The police tied his hand behind his back to make a suicide look like a murder or lied about his hands being tied behind his back to make it look like a suicide or that nobody really died?

Take your pick from any of the the above

[Anthony5]

It should be noted that the first article only mentioned that it was a suicide, however someone downloaded one of the picture and zoomed in on the hands clearly tied behind the persons back...this info was send to CSILA and A.D, later more pictures from the scene were posted on CSILA ...only after this did the articles mentioned that hands tied behind the back....

It was originally solved as a suicide..until social media hit on it.. ( TV was late ;-) )

I shall not go into details of the pictures, only mention that if was in a civilized country, with the clearly visibly indications, this person would have been cut down and CPR/ Resuscitation tried..

To me it does not look like a suicide ( even if all Koh Tao friend may claim so )

A member who joined on the day the news of the Hannah and David broke and who referes to CSI LA as credible investigators .

Hmmm.

[JohnThailandJohn]

Two stupid questions (apologies in advance)

• How in the world does one tie one's hands behind one's back... that would seem to require some Houdini-like dexterity

• How does one put a noose around one's neck with one's hands tied behind one's back?

There's obviously a lot for me to learn in this world...

There are two main techniques (note: do not apply in this case as the characteristics are wrong)

• You can put the noose over your head first, then tie the hands in front of you (perhaps using your teeth to help) before stepping through to place the hands behind you. This requires very good balance to avoid hanging yourself prematurely.
• Easier is to tie a very loose slip knot around one hand, put the noose over your head, place your hands behind your back and work your free hand through the gap in the very loose slip knot before tightening.

In most all cases when the hands are tied of a hanging victim, they are far apart and not like handcuffs. It makes tying and stepping through very easy while surviving the purpose of preventing oneself from backing out. The one picture I looked at showing his wrist and knots, it appears his hands may have been far apart if the other hand was also at his side.

Tying yourself up is easy ... http://youtu.be/yETSwXokVFA?t=32s

This link shows graphic pics of hanging victims with their hands tied and you can see the are all far apart http://www.academia.edu/903627/Precautions_Taken_to_Avoid_Abandoning_the_Act_of_Hanging_and_Reducing_Pain_in_Suicidal_Hanging_Cases

[BritTim]

First of all, I don't think what the RTP version will be, I will read when it's made public. Thinking what it gonna be is a conspiracy theory already.

The case is open to discussion> Going from 99.9% of the posts in this thread, it's clear that the verdict is out already.

First of all, I don't think what the RTP version will be, I will read when it's made public.

No doubt, there will be a lot of trial balloons before a final version appears in 2-3 weeks time. We already know the original version: clear case of suicide, suicide letter found, death in family and broke up with girlfriend. The next version will probably be in the papers tomorrow.

[philw]

STOP! with the Burmese jokes for God's sake.......any Idea how stupid you come across as being?

+1

+2

Have you noticed how many likes you get when you make a silly Burmese joke?

For the first time I agree with uptheos and Jamie.

Quite a first.

Those Burmese scapegoats are about to have their lives destroyed and you <deleted> about with what you think is amusing pedantry............

And jamie, I don't need a nap, but maybe a couple more amber fluids and more Dr John on a holiday weekend.

[JarekN]

Must be something in the air with all the suicides taking place in TH. Either way the place is turning into a complete shit hole... And to think that few months ago I was actually entertaining the idea of getting a small house there Day by day things are getting worse in the LOS, such news will only make tourism go down even further. Hopefully in 6-12 months there will be tons of properties all over Thailand at 50-75% discount... Will be good time to buy something as long as you pickup couple of guns for protection to go with it

[BritTim]

Everything points to suicide except the fact that it was murder. The most common way to avoid getting caught for murder is to try to make it look like a suicide.

The only thing that supports the suicide theory is the love letter written in french .. That means the love letter was not a suicide note (just a unrelated love letter), or that the killers knew french and forced him to write it ... if the killers did not know french he could have written that he was being threatened when he wrote it..

It is also worth noting that, if it was a covered up murder, no suicide note would need to be produced until the inquest. That would provide plenty of time to get it right.

[Anthony5]

Have you noticed how many likes you get when you make a silly Burmese joke?

For the first time I agree with uptheos and Jamie.

Quite a first.

Those Burmese scapegoats are about to have their lives destroyed and you <deleted> about with what you think is amusing pedantry............

And jamie, I don't need a nap, but maybe a couple more amber fluids and more Dr John on a holiday weekend.

I suggest you learn to read and check your facts before you try to insult me again. Maybe it is that you had too much amber fluids already, it's called an alcoholic.

[hawthorne]

It seems so logical, this is a typical LOS suicide. This has become the tourist suicide destination of Asia.

[lordpeps]

Obvious case of autoerotic asphixiation gone wrong. Maybe he didn't have a closet to do it in.

[JohnThailandJohn]

It should be noted that the first article only mentioned that it was a suicide, however someone downloaded one of the picture and zoomed in on the hands clearly tied behind the persons back...this info was send to CSILA and A.D, later more pictures from the scene were posted on CSILA ...only after this did the articles mentioned that hands tied behind the back....

It was originally solved as a suicide..until social media hit on it.. ( TV was late ;-) )

I shall not go into details of the pictures, only mention that if was in a civilized country, with the clearly visibly indications, this person would have been cut down and CPR/ Resuscitation tried..

To me it does not look like a suicide ( even if all Koh Tao friend may claim so )

While CSILA detectives may say different, the reality is you don't cut down the body until investigators have examined and photographed the scene. There is no reason to to give CPR to a corpse and it was obvious the were dealing with a corpse. In civilized (modern) countries officers are trained to know not to cut down a body but in less developed countries it is more common for an officer to cut down a body and worse cut the rope in an incorrect location damaging the investigation.

[EyesWideOpen]

Given the amazingly bad reputation of Death Island's police when it comes to the investigative

process, a smart move for them would have been to stay 50 feet away from the crime scene,

and ask for Khun Porntip to come down to the island. Then at least the outcome, in either

direction, would have had some believability. She sold her soul to the devil on the GT 200

fiasco, but by accounts is still pretty good on forensic examinations. Does anyone know

if she will be involved ??

On the face of it, it sure looks like murder with the hands tied. But if so, why make it so

public ? Sending a message ? If people on the island really wanted to off this guy, seems like

they would just kill him and throw the weighted body in the sea. Maybe someone on the island

wants to buy up property on the cheap, so a few very public deaths would knock down

values.....I have been there, it is very beautiful. Does not seem like place to go to kill yourself.

Am curious about the suicide note. Was it written in French ? If so, could I safely assume

the police would contact the family to get other letters he has written and do a comparative

analysis ? Or is that too much work ?

Edited January 3, 2015 by EyesWideOpen

[daveAustin]

Let the investigation take it's course. Thailand is not rife with serial killers or gangsters, most of them come here on the plane.

Oh dear, go back to sleep, please.

[sabaitoo]

It should be noted that the first article only mentioned that it was a suicide, however someone downloaded one of the picture and zoomed in on the hands clearly tied behind the persons back...this info was send to CSILA and A.D, later more pictures from the scene were posted on CSILA ...only after this did the articles mentioned that hands tied behind the back....

It was originally solved as a suicide..until social media hit on it.. ( TV was late ;-) )

I shall not go into details of the pictures, only mention that if was in a civilized country, with the clearly visibly indications, this person would have been cut down and CPR/ Resuscitation tried..

To me it does not look like a suicide ( even if all Koh Tao friend may claim so )

While CSILA detectives may say different, the reality is you don't cut down the body until investigators have examined and photographed the scene. There is no reason to to give CPR to a corpse and it was obvious the were dealing with a corpse. In civilized (modern) countries officers are trained to know not to cut down a body but in less developed countries it is more common for an officer to cut down a body and worse cut the rope in an incorrect location damaging the investigation.

What CSILA whatever say do not interest me, definition of a corpse is well defined, any trained professional see what I see on those pictures, also procedures in handling of hangings differ from your imagination, from your statements I concur that you really do not have a clue what you are talking about..so lets just leave it at that... go on defending you interest

[daveAustin]

The slaughter continues. How many more is enough until the place is cleansed? Rotten to the core and yet stoopid individuals still go there.

[mrtoad]

The saddest thing here, is that a young bloke has lost his life,.

The next bit is that despite johnthailanjohns pleadings , JT police reputation is in the toilet, so it's obvious that this going to be questioned.

Several simple questions

1) johnthailanjohnd what is your link to RTP?

2) iAre you a forensic specialist?

3) what is your knowledge of Koh Tao?

4) length of stay in Thailand?

These are the openings, as you continually defend any suspicious RTP stuff.

Not suggesting this isn't a suicide, however it is highly suspicious. Your wiki and google stuff is impressive, but iI can't be assed to do all the counter stuff

[Anthony5]

The saddest thing here, is that a young bloke has lost his life,.

The next bit is that despite johnthailanjohns pleadings , JT police reputation is in the toilet, so it's obvious that this going to be questioned.

Several simple questions

1) johnthailanjohnd what is your link to RTP?

2) iAre you a forensic specialist?

3) what is your knowledge of Koh Tao?

4) length of stay in Thailand?

These are the openings, as you continually defend any suspicious RTP stuff.

Not suggesting this isn't a suicide, however it is highly suspicious. Your wiki and google stuff is impressive, but iI can't be assed to do all the counter stuff

2) iAre you a forensic specialist?

3) what is your knowledge of Koh Tao?

[sabaitoo]

It should be noted that the first article only mentioned that it was a suicide, however someone downloaded one of the picture and zoomed in on the hands clearly tied behind the persons back...this info was send to CSILA and A.D, later more pictures from the scene were posted on CSILA ...only after this did the articles mentioned that hands tied behind the back....

It was originally solved as a suicide..until social media hit on it.. ( TV was late ;-) )

I shall not go into details of the pictures, only mention that if was in a civilized country, with the clearly visibly indications, this person would have been cut down and CPR/ Resuscitation tried..

To me it does not look like a suicide ( even if all Koh Tao friend may claim so )

A member who joined on the day the news of the Hannah and David broke and who referes to CSI LA as credible investigators .

Hmmm.

Where do you find a reference to CSILA as credible investigator ? It is a facebook group as far as I know..but with some followers and a source to get the word out.... Now go join your friends in the apologist club

[JohnThailandJohn]

It should be noted that the first article only mentioned that it was a suicide, however someone downloaded one of the picture and zoomed in on the hands clearly tied behind the persons back...this info was send to CSILA and A.D, later more pictures from the scene were posted on CSILA ...only after this did the articles mentioned that hands tied behind the back....

It was originally solved as a suicide..until social media hit on it.. ( TV was late ;-) )

I shall not go into details of the pictures, only mention that if was in a civilized country, with the clearly visibly indications, this person would have been cut down and CPR/ Resuscitation tried..

To me it does not look like a suicide ( even if all Koh Tao friend may claim so )

While CSILA detectives may say different, the reality is you don't cut down the body until investigators have examined and photographed the scene. There is no reason to to give CPR to a corpse and it was obvious the were dealing with a corpse. In civilized (modern) countries officers are trained to know not to cut down a body but in less developed countries it is more common for an officer to cut down a body and worse cut the rope in an incorrect location damaging the investigation.

What CSILA whatever say do not interest me, definition of a corpse is well defined, any trained professional see what I see on those pictures, also procedures in handling of hangings differ from your imagination, from your statements I concur that you really do not have a clue what you are talking about..so lets just leave it at that... go on defending you interest

Lets not leave it at this because you are stating something that is absolutely wrong and this can easily be verified by doing just a tiny bit of research online or just using your common sense in trying to figure out how hanging victims are photographed hanging in civilized countries if in civilized countries they cut them down to perform CPR.

You are also the one who brought up CSILA and how great it is.

And unless you just happen to think CSILA is such a great thing that you had to mention them numerous times in your post but now say it does not interest you then I will assume it just coincidence that you and the CSILA posters both have a tendency to post BS and state it as fact despite it clearly not being to anyone with knowledge or cares to check the facts.

[Islandlife]

It should be noted that the first article only mentioned that it was a suicide, however someone downloaded one of the picture and zoomed in on the hands clearly tied behind the persons back...this info was send to CSILA and A.D, later more pictures from the scene were posted on CSILA ...only after this did the articles mentioned that hands tied behind the back....

It was originally solved as a suicide..until social media hit on it.. ( TV was late ;-) )

I shall not go into details of the pictures, only mention that if was in a civilized country, with the clearly visibly indications, this person would have been cut down and CPR/ Resuscitation tried..

To me it does not look like a suicide ( even if all Koh Tao friend may claim so )

A member who joined on the day the news of the Hannah and David broke and who referes to CSI LA as credible investigators .

Hmmm.

Who is that member? I certainly joined here few daya after murders and only bcase got winded up with all false accusations on innocent people some of them even my friends.

If someone referes Csi dude credible

Investigator. Is so out of bounds and its not even funny.

He had hes moments at start and after got very unreliable and posted everything with out no facts just to keep hes likes up.

[Anthony5]

It should be noted that the first article only mentioned that it was a suicide, however someone downloaded one of the picture and zoomed in on the hands clearly tied behind the persons back...this info was send to CSILA and A.D, later more pictures from the scene were posted on CSILA ...only after this did the articles mentioned that hands tied behind the back....

It was originally solved as a suicide..until social media hit on it.. ( TV was late ;-) )

I shall not go into details of the pictures, only mention that if was in a civilized country, with the clearly visibly indications, this person would have been cut down and CPR/ Resuscitation tried..

To me it does not look like a suicide ( even if all Koh Tao friend may claim so )

A member who joined on the day the news of the Hannah and David broke and who referes to CSI LA as credible investigators .

Hmmm.

Who is that member? I certainly joined here few daya after murders and only bcase got winded up with all false accusations on innocent people some of them even my friends.

If someone referes Csi dude credible

Investigator. Is so out of bounds and its not even funny.

He had hes moments at start and after got very unreliable and posted everything with out no facts just to keep hes likes up.

If you look who I replied to, should answer your questions.

[Nemesis7]

No one needs to be sharlock Holmes to understand this much that it's not a case of suicide .

Tragedy he had to go this way.

[MJP]

No one needs to be sharlock Holmes to understand this much that it's not a case of suicide .

Tragedy he had to go this way.

I think this was actually suicide.

[mrtoad]

The saddest thing here, is that a young bloke has lost his life,.

The next bit is that despite johnthailanjohns pleadings , JT police reputation is in the toilet, so it's obvious that this going to be questioned.

Several simple questions

1) johnthailanjohnd what is your link to RTP?

2) iAre you a forensic specialist?

3) what is your knowledge of Koh Tao?

4) length of stay in Thailand?

These are the openings, as you continually defend any suspicious RTP stuff.

Not suggesting this isn't a suicide, however it is highly suspicious. Your wiki and google stuff is impressive, but iI can't be assed to do all the counter stuff

2) iAre you a forensic specialist?

3) what is your knowledge of Koh Tao?

Nice deflection, not directed at you.

[jabis]

Getting a serious déjà vu-episode here...

[SGD]

Honestly, how many of these hands tied behind back suicides have we seen in Thailand now?

I really really want to use a whole skip load of foul language.

But people from outside LOS refuse to believe that the place is so damn crooked that the cops brush these off as routine suicides when elsewhere the average 6 year old knows the victim has been murdered.