Denim Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 (edited) Doing a little work on the car yesterday which involved removing a wheel. However, the guy who put on my new tires a few weeks back had put the wheel nuts on so tight that one nut refused to be removed. This, despite using a trusty X shaped wheel brace with the wife jumping on it. My next effort was with my 2' 6'' steel extension tube that slides over the standard brace for more leverage. Still no luck. Where's that the tattooed Kiwi bloke from Pattaya when you need him ! Checking the other wheels I found several other nuts that I could not remove. Not a big deal when there is nothing wrong but would be very inconvenient if I had a puncture some time in the future and couldn't put on the spare. Today, had all 16 nuts loosened and then re tightened them myself with my X brace. So....I don't know why they do it....tighten things down to within an inch of death.......but they do. So save yourself potential grief and check out your nuts.....a few minutes that could save you hours ! Edited January 4, 2015 by Denim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpSpeed Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 (edited) Pretty sad if a 110 lb Thai guy tightens a nut so hard that you can't loosen it.. Aluminum rims or steel? Should always use a torque wrench for aluminum, nothing needed for steel, just crank em down. In the case of both but especially steel, I'd much rather have them too tight then too loose, though that's going to lead to damaged (possibly failed while driving) aluminum rims if they're on too tight. I always kept my own torque wrench in my car to check them or to loan to have them tightened correctly if the shop I use didn't have one or know how to properly tighten aluminum.. Edited January 4, 2015 by WarpSpeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywais Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Probably was mounted with a pneumatic impact wrench, perhaps without torque limiter. That is what they use at the places I go but they have a torque limiter on it. Yes I know, some say never use an air impact wrench but it is out of my control when I send it to the shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpSpeed Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 If the rims are steel no reason not to use an impact, if aluminum then only use it to tighten gently for expediency, then a torque wrench, tighten or back off as needed, but you do still have control, watch and correct, I do, it's YOUR car and your safety.. Still never had any impact wrench tighten more then I can loosen. Instead of his 90 lb wife? Maybe he should stand on the wrench, just sayin like.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Gsxrnz Posted January 4, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted January 4, 2015 The biggest cause of over tightened nuts is that they don't tighten them in a pattern and don't tighten them progressively. If the first nut is cranked right up to full pressure, (even if it's done with a torque wrench to the recommended setting, which of course they never are), it has the effect of cantilevering the rim towards that point. Then when the other nuts are done the same way and not in a pattern, the first nut/stud gets additional stress/torque placed on it making it way over tight. The correct process is to nip each nut progressively in a pattern to say 70% of recommended torque, then 90%, then full. If this is done you'll never have a problem. For years I've made it a habit of checking the nuts whenever I get any tyre work done. This comes from being marooned in the boonies as a teenager with a flat and having all the gear to change to the spare but couldn't get one nut off. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpSpeed Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Yep, not staggering the sequence opposite every other nut and like you said fully tightening up the first one is an issue, like I said oversight and correction is key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gsxrnz Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 A good trick to loosen an over tight nut is to do all the other nuts up as tight as you dare using a progressive patterned technique. This has the effect of evening out the pressure on the wheel/hub and will/may take a few lbs/ft or n/M off the stuck one. Doesn't always work but worth a try. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isan Farang Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I use the following to remove the nuts on my SUV & car alloys, and re-apply with a torque wrench. If applied at around 120 nm there is no issue to remove them with the 24in bar. I also use the following sockets that are perfect for alloy wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jb525 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 At the other extreme. I saw a thai guy checking the nuts were tight on his cement truck front wheels, by hand. 555555 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhunBENQ Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 A good word about my Mazda car inspection. They use a pneumatic wrench, but only "loosely" and finalize manually with a torque wrench. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpSpeed Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 ^That's the correct way but not just checking to see if they're tight after using the impact, as if the impact over-tightens then using a torque wrench is useless as they're already over tightened. Ideally there should be a slight bit to tighten down still with the torque wrench. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 All nuts/bolts have a stretch point which can only be achieved by a torque wrench. Over tighten and the thread is weakened. Air gun should be used set at below the torque setting and then the wrench used to complete the job. OP, inspect the thread inside the nuts, I have seen over stressed threads looking a bit iffy. A tell tale sign of stressed threads is you cannot turn the nut/bolt with your hand. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seedy Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) And check the studs for stretch too. If it was mine, would replace all studs and nuts. But if it was mine, I would be standing there with my torque wrench. Edited January 5, 2015 by seedy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shurup Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Oh, those nuts... Yeah, I've seen wheels with snapped studs and some nuts missing as a result. Always a good idea to check. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seedy Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 At the other extreme. I saw a thai guy checking the nuts were tight on his cement truck front wheels, by hand. 555555 We torque ours by hand too - but the handle on the torque wrench is 5 feet long !! 650 lb/ft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Sirpia Posted January 5, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted January 5, 2015 Next thing to do is check the tyre pressure. They're likely 17,000 psi. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpSpeed Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Nitrogen..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Denim Posted January 5, 2015 Author Popular Post Share Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) Pretty sad if a 110 lb Thai guy tightens a nut so hard that you can't loosen it.. Indeed, and had that been the case I would have been even more upset. However, the 110 lb Thai guy in question obviously had a pneumatic impact wrench , which I don't have so didn't feel too embarrassed. In fact, when I took the car to the tire bloke and explained the problem he assumed the same as you, and with a smirk on his face set to work with his own X wheel brace, looking to show the wimp falang how strong he was. Pretty quick the veins on his face were throbbing and it was my turn to wear the smirk ( although I had been praying for him to fail so as to save face ). Anyways , he then went and got his torque gun and came back with another expression that said ' no worries ' ........I'm tooled up. ...................................I prayed for his success. Unfortunately , and surprisingly ( for both of us ) even the gun couldn't shift the nut in question, although, not being a sentient living thing it clearly felt no shame at it's fail. Finaly , he went out back and returned with a 4 foot length of heavy duty steel tubing. Now his expression read ' Suck on this nut ! ' .........................and yes....with me holding the wrench on the nut and him applying the leverage it popped loose and it was deep joy all around. The point of my post was that technology is a fine thing in trained hands but when given to a Thai monkey wrench sort of bloke, well the whole thing is just one too many and a fail is on the cards. It takes no time at all to check your nuts , the two god gifted you with and the rest you bought. Can definitely save you some grief should one be tight and you are unlucky enough to get a puncture somewhere inconvenient .....mother in laws cave ...for example. Edited January 5, 2015 by Denim 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirpia Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 It's good that you didn't say something completely innocently that made the original guy feel maligned, otherwise you may have gotten a big deep wai and friendly smile as he left all off them almost hanging off loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpSpeed Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Pretty sad if a 110 lb Thai guy tightens a nut so hard that you can't loosen it.. Indeed, and had that been the case I would have been even more upset. However, the 110 lb Thai guy in question obviously had a pneumatic impact wrench , which I don't have so didn't feel too embarrassed. In fact, when I took the car to the tire bloke and explained the problem he assumed the same as you, and with a smirk on his face set to work with his own X wheel brace, looking to show the wimp falang how strong he was. Pretty quick the veins on his face were throbbing and it was my turn to wear the smirk ( although I had been praying for him to fail so as to save face ). Anyways , he then went and got his torque gun and came back with another expression that said ' no worries ' ........I'm tooled up. ...................................I prayed for his success. Unfortunately , and surprisingly ( for both of us ) even the gun couldn't shift the nut in question, although, not being a sentient living thing it clearly felt no shame at it's fail. Finaly , he went out back and returned with a 4 foot length of heavy duty steel tubing. Now his expression read ' Suck on this nut ! ' .........................and yes....with me holding the wrench on the nut and him applying the leverage it popped loose and it was deep joy all around. The point of my post was that technology is a fine thing in trained hands but when given to a Thai monkey wrench sort of bloke, well the whole thing is just one too many and a fail is on the cards. It takes no time at all to check your nuts , the two god gifted you with and the rest you bought. Can definitely save you some grief should one be tight and you are unlucky enough to get a puncture somewhere inconvenient .....mother in laws cave ...for example. Well glad to see you took the post how it was intended (in humor) instead of getting all indignant.. Good on ya.. But I have to say, you did ask another 110 lb Thai guy to loosen them too, so that's kind of another fail.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lickey Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 In the good old days on HGV lorries we used to use a socket and T-bar with a 6foot scaffold tube resting on the ground, forward or reverse the truck till the nut loosened, spose it could still be done now if you want,,, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpSpeed Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 There's an idea albeit a bit dangerous with the torque involved and to do it right, and more safely requires 2 people but sure with a car wheel closer to the ground that'd work quite well only no need for a 6 ft bar, a foot or 2 should do,.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gsxrnz Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 In the good old days on HGV lorries we used to use a socket and T-bar with a 6foot scaffold tube resting on the ground, forward or reverse the truck till the nut loosened, spose it could still be done now if you want,,, Yep, done that. My Dad even had a custom foot for the scaffolding to slot into so it slid smoothly along the ground. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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