Why are Thai women bigger in 2024?

[WheresWaldo]

This has been a much discussed topic both on this forum and in the news.

My experience driving the roads of Thailand for eight years has NOT leave me in a state of tattered fear (as did driving in Mexico). I keep seeing all these articles about how dangerous it is to drive here: “Thailand is #2 for Dangerous Driving,” etc. Every time I see one of these articles, it occurs to me that the empirical evidence does not support the conclusion while the hard statistics do. Of course, my thinking takes into consideration the empirical observations that: (1) There are overwhelmingly more motorcycles/scooters on the highways than four-wheeled vehicles; (2) many of these motorcycle/scooters are ridden by crazy youth oblivious old men. Also that nearly every accident I have witnessed in Thailand involved a scooter.

So I searched high and low for the statistic: What percentage of highway fatalities in Thailand involves motorcycles? I finally found it: 74.9%.

While Thailand apparently ranks #2 in the world for dangerous roads where 44 people per 100,000 die every year, if you factor out the 75% involving motorcycles, you end up with 11 fatalities/100,000. This is not surprising when you consider your chances when riding inside a steel cage with seatbelts and airbags vs. riding on a bike.

How does this stack up against the rest of the world? Let’s use the United States. According to the U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), in 2006, 13.10 cars out of 100,000 ended up in fatal crashes. The rate for motorcycles is 72.34 per 100,000 registered motorcycles. In the US, only 2.8% of registered vehicles are motorcycles. That is why the overall death rate in the US is only 13.9/100,000. Based on these stats, one could argue that driving a car in the US is actually more dangerous than driving a car in Thailand. The risk of death riding a motorcycle is similar for the respective countries.

I could not find Thailand’s stat for percentage of vehicles that are motorcycles, but I could safely guess that it is something near the inverse of that for the US. Thus, the raw overall death statistic is skewed for Thailand by the fact that there are many,many more motorcycles than cars on the road, thus far more total deaths per 100,000.

Now, my personal observations. I ride a motorcycle. I may have ridden a million miles in the US. I have probably had nearly the same number of close calls per mile ridden caused by “the other guy” in the US as in Thailand. I have also observed very few accidents (only two in eight years) involving cars in Thailand. I have seen many involving scooters. An accident involving a motorcycle is, a priori, much more likely to involve a death that one involving only cars or trucks. I seldom drive in places like Bangkok and Pattaya, but have found, on the average, Thai drivers to be generally slower and more polite than drivers in the US. There are always extremes on both ends.

Another observation I have made is that US drivers tend to drive by the book and expect everybody else to do the same. In Thailand, drivers tend to be more pragmatic, and thus, more aware. A US driver assumes he can blast through his green light without looking for cross traffic. A Thai driver will seldom ever do that; they look first. Thais don’t stop at stop signs when there is nobody there. US drivers do. A Thai driver might drive down the wrong side of the road where pragmatism dictates. In the US, you might go to jail for that. Many foreigners hate Thai driving for this alone. It is one of the things I love about this country. If you substitute expectation for observation in Thailand, you may have a problem This saying comes to mind: “Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools.” As much as foreigners may wish everybody followed the rules, here, they are defacto, only guidelines.

I feel perfectly safe driving a car in Thailand. I also find the joy of riding a motorcycle to be well worth the risk, since I’m gonna die anyway. At the end of the day, I understand that I am responsible for keeping myself alive. It’s not up to the other guy.

This is the problem with statistics. You can twist them to say anything you want them to say (remember Ross Perot with his charts and graphs?). When portrayed honestly, they seldom tell the same story told by somebody with an agenda (like making a headline).

Disclaimer: My statistics cited above may have come from varying years, so are an approximation only. I am aware that have mixed a few statistical apples with oranges. Thus, my final numbers are not intended to be mathematically flawless. I only make a point, which my personal experience supports.

[Berkshire]

Finally, someone with some sense! I agree with pretty much everything in the OP. Having driven in the USA, as well as some other Asian and Latin American countries, I find driving in Thailand to be just fine. And the stats you quoted are correct. Most of the fatalities in Thailand are on motorcycles. Funny how the Thai-bashers are always quoting that fatality statistic without ever considering the reasons. On any given day--and very similar to the US--I find maybe around 5% of drivers are aggressive jerks. The other 95% are just fine...although something that irritates me even more than the aggressive drivers are the slow and meek drivers. I think some farangs in Thailand may be in that latter category.

Something people aren't willing to admit is that for a country with very little traffic enforcement, the Thais do very well in policing themselves. And yes, this does mean a lot of "common sense" maneuvers which some may find reckless but really is not if everyone understood the unwritten rules of the road. I personally find driving in Thailand to be preferable to driving in the USA and truly dread the day the police start enforcing traffic laws more, such as speeding.

[kannot]

Let me know when you have an accident that wasnt your fault and are left paralysed or dead and tell me how the statistics

seem then.

Im going to add I have never seen so many cars upside down in ditches or cut in half anywhere else, every trip from BKK to Hua Hin there is always one often enough a whole coach or lorry, Police man who comes to our land told me 50 accidents with fatalities at the junction outside his police box in 10 years odd, the car driver isnt always ok but obviously has more protection than any bike.

Id say about 60-40% of the accidents I have seen are car -car. or car -ditch lorry- ditch and then motorcycles 40%

Edited January 6, 2015 by kannot

[thailandusauk]

I agree with you but you are just wrong about Thai drivers who often are hot temper behind the wheel because they have no chance to say <deleted> to anyone in their real life !

I know MANY nice Thai guys who become retarded monkey devils when drivings, so I am sure that it is not just my idea.

[MrTee]

"it occurs to me that the empirical evidence does not support the conclusion while the hard statistics do"

LolWut?

[Aussieroaming]

i agree with the OP. Thailand is a pretty good place to drive.

I've driven in a fair few countries and I believe the South Americans have the worst driving manners that I've seen. They seem to go out of their way to be road hogging &lt;deleted&gt;.

Asia deals with congestion the best way they can.

[stat088]

Seat belts, Seat belts, Seat belts.

Child car seats, Child car seats, Child car seats.

Kids on laps in a car with or without air bags????????

Lets start with the basics that western Countries introduced 40 years ago.

Then start paying the cols a decent salary and get them to enforce traffic laws.

[benalibina]

Other countries incidents on the road are here commonplace.....for a good, experienced and attentative driver...Thailand is okay to drive....reason, a.o, being lack of policecontrol on the roads.....so for an uneducated lot, they are not doing toooo bad.

[ryanhull]

I agree Thailand is not so bad to drive in when you get used to it... organized madness in someways,

One thing I would like Thai drivers to adopt is over taking on the right lane only (like in the UK) and not undertaking, I do find the whole over taking in any lane a bit dangerous and most of the problems I see stem from this. I also would like to see motorbikes have both lights active not just the front light, up here in north Thailand most bikes just have a front light and the rear light is often off, I was told by a Thai mate that alot of the younger riders actually think its cool to disconnect the rear light.

Driving down the wrong side of the road on the hard shoulder both cars and bikes is also something that should be stopped in my opinion but hey in the UK everything is so safe on the roads it actually becomes unsafe in some ways, plus driving in the UK seems so boring now.

One thing I would say, having drove for a year in Bangkok then a year up north in Sarakham, its a quite different, Bangkok being pretty unforgiving and a race for every meter of road which to me seemed alot more dangerous than here,

Interesting post anyway

[NeverSure]

Your statistics are flawed. Thailand doesn't count a death as a vehicle accident unless the victim is pronounced dead at the scene. Dying later at the hospital doesn't count.

Also, how accurate is the counting? Who keeps the database?

You post that US drivers will stop at a stop sign even if there's no traffic which is true. I say that in Thailand it is madness.

I have driven a lot in Thailand and now I rent a car from Avis the moment I get there. Driving in Thailand is madness. No more scooters even though I'm a certified motorcycle instructor.

You forgot to mention pickup trucks with the rear bed overflowing with people and what happens when they overturn in Thailand. Sometimes when the driver loses control like that he crosses over into oncoming traffic.

I could go on.

Edited January 6, 2015 by NeverSure

[thehelmsman]

I've been driving cars about 1 1/2 yr. now in Thailand. making the transtition to wheel on right and driving on left takes some practice. Still hit the wiper instead of blinker now and then. All in all I'm doing good. The main thing is to always be the professional driver, no sightseeing. Now that the cattle are grazing freely, one more danger. Only when you leave your emotions at home will you be a good driver. Situational awareness is essential. I've progressed to taking 1/2 the village in back of truck on long trips.

[thaibeachlovers]

Finally, someone with some sense! I agree with pretty much everything in the OP. Having driven in the USA, as well as some other Asian and Latin American countries, I find driving in Thailand to be just fine. And the stats you quoted are correct. Most of the fatalities in Thailand are on motorcycles. Funny how the Thai-bashers are always quoting that fatality statistic without ever considering the reasons. On any given day--and very similar to the US--I find maybe around 5% of drivers are aggressive jerks. The other 95% are just fine...although something that irritates me even more than the aggressive drivers are the slow and meek drivers. I think some farangs in Thailand may be in that latter category.

Something people aren't willing to admit is that for a country with very little traffic enforcement, the Thais do very well in policing themselves. And yes, this does mean a lot of "common sense" maneuvers which some may find reckless but really is not if everyone understood the unwritten rules of the road. I personally find driving in Thailand to be preferable to driving in the USA and truly dread the day the police start enforcing traffic laws more, such as speeding.

I don't take the fatality rate into account when assessing how dangerous it is to drive in Thailand, but I do take into account the Thai mentality that allows people to take un acceptable risks, and just ignore road rules, along with badly designed and constructed roads. My chances of an accident in Thailand are far higher than in a country where people mostly obey the road code and don't do stupid things while driving. Whether the accident causes my death is up to chance, but the likelihood is that I will have an accident sometime. I have already had one when a motorcyclist drove into me because he wasn't looking where he was going.

BTW, driving in the passing lane on "my" side of the road around a blind corner is NOT a "common sense" manoeuver, it is the action of a maniac that doesn't care if he kills someone else, just to save a few minutes of his time.

[georgemandm]

You are joking me , my job back home is truck driver in Australia and we have bad drivers to but not like thailand, first you need to go and see a thai driving test and then you mite lean why thais are so bad on the road and then come back here and tells us more about thais on the road thais are a joke on thai roads .

[faraday]

"it occurs to me that the empirical evidence does not support the conclusion while the hard statistics do"

LolWut?

Think he meant Anectdotal, but is trying so hard to be erudite.....

[DaffyDuck]

The word is 'anecdotal'. ;-)

He actual means 'empirical' - ie 'factual' evidence.

Driving any 4-wheeled passenger vehicle in Thailand is just fine. This decreases as you remove 2 wheels from the equation. ;-)

Edited January 6, 2015 by DaffyDuck

[kannot]

Your statistics are flawed. Thailand doesn't count a death as a vehicle accident unless the victim is pronounced dead at the scene. Dying later at the hospital doesn't count.

Also, how accurate is the counting? Who keeps the database?

You post that US drivers will stop at a stop sign even if there's no traffic which is true. I say that in Thailand it is madness.

I have driven a lot in Thailand and now I rent a car from Avis the moment I get there. Driving in Thailand is madness. No more scooters even though I'm a certified motorcycle instructor.

You forgot to mention pickup trucks with the rear bed overflowing with people and what happens when they overturn in Thailand. Sometimes when the driver loses control like that he crosses over into oncoming traffic.

I could go on.

Amulets man .......get serious.........amulets

[Bakeman]

_{While I'm in my car I drive defensively, with a purpose, and no sight seeing. When I'm on my motorcycle I drive as if I am subordinate to all vehicles. Seen too much in the way of bad driving and bad accidents to risk any other method of driving in LOS.}

[WheresWaldo]

I came back for a look at the comments to this post and am now laughing my derriere off ("derriere" sounds a lot more erudite than "a$$"). So predictable. The comments roughly follow the same split as among my farang friends here.

There are those that hate driving here and foam at the mouth over the lack of law enforcement and perceived lawlessness on the road. These folks do not want to be confused by the numbers, as they have their dogmas to give them all the guiding light they require.

On the other side are those who love and thrive on the semi-anarchy (freedom) here, are not threatened by it and wouldn't trade it for anything.

I often wonder what it is about Thailand that holds those in the former group. Is it the sex?

[DaffyDuck]

I often wonder what it is about Thailand that holds those in the former group. Is it the sex?

Same thing that holds the constant bitchers and whiners as well. Yep, the sex.

That, or pending arrest warrants or child support payments in their home country.

After a while of listening to the same tales, you learn to read between the lines.

Edited January 7, 2015 by DaffyDuck

[winnerinsix]

I love driving here... Bangkok is a pain at times, but only because you can sit for ages and not go anywhere.

I drive the Bnagkok - Hua Hin route regularly, and I do like the trip down there. It's a good road, that flows well, most times. U can hunt along at 120 or so without problems from the cops, and you invariably run across a check point at Petchaburi, but they are never a problem, they generally wave you through.

Sure, you see some dopey things happen, but I see the same things in my own country.

The one thing that i find dreadfully dangerous, is the u turns that are allowed on Fast roads.... to me, that is craziness. I notice that over holiday periods, they do close the u turn bays, I think they should be closed permanently. But other than that, the drive down there, is usually uneventful.

Once you realise that lane markings are guides and not mandatory, according to Thai drivers, driving becomes much easier here.

[BradinAsia]

Waldo, very well said. One of the better posts I've ever read on TV.

[daveAustin]

Op, commute in Chiang Mai then come back and tell me how not so bad the driving is. Driving is only pleasant here when there are no other road users on your stretch. Eyes need to be absolutely peeled every second because the propensity for someone to do something completely nuts is ever-present. Done at least 150,000 miles in Thailand in all areas.

[BradinAsia]

"it occurs to me that the empirical evidence does not support the conclusion while the hard statistics do"

LolWut?

Think he meant Anectdotal, but is trying so hard to be erudite.....

I think people who are truly erudite are more likely to think one thing and type another.

They are also less likely to deride other folks for a minor slip of tongue (or keyboard).

[Banzai99]

Finally, someone with some sense! I agree with pretty much everything in the OP. Having driven in the USA, as well as some other Asian and Latin American countries, I find driving in Thailand to be just fine. And the stats you quoted are correct. Most of the fatalities in Thailand are on motorcycles. Funny how the Thai-bashers are always quoting that fatality statistic without ever considering the reasons. On any given day--and very similar to the US--I find maybe around 5% of drivers are aggressive jerks. The other 95% are just fine...although something that irritates me even more than the aggressive drivers are the slow and meek drivers. I think some farangs in Thailand may be in that latter category.

Something people aren't willing to admit is that for a country with very little traffic enforcement, the Thais do very well in policing themselves. And yes, this does mean a lot of "common sense" maneuvers which some may find reckless but really is not if everyone understood the unwritten rules of the road. I personally find driving in Thailand to be preferable to driving in the USA and truly dread the day the police start enforcing traffic laws more, such as speeding.

I agree, I moved to Thailand when I was 35 so as I got older I was able to adapt, many Farang that come here and are just too old to adapt.

Been here since 1990 and find driving here is fine, my motor is 9 years old and never had an accident, wife's motor is 5 years old, never had an accident, in fact I've never been involved in an accident in over 24 years of driving here, bikes or cars, maybe I'm just lucky, or like I say, I adapted easier.

On the other hand if I now went back to the UK and started driving, they would probably think I'm a nutter.

If I had come here in my 60's or 70's, I would probably feel different, and moan and whine cos I'd also be unable to adapt .

Edited January 7, 2015 by Banzai99

[garyinhuahin]

A 3-week visit to India cured me of ever complaning about traffic and drivers in Thailand.

[garyinhuahin]

I compromised by attaching a Thai-style sidecar (a 'saling') to my Honda Click. I'm not better protected than a 2-wheeler (well, maybe on the saling side), but I can't do the kind of weaving in and out that gets motorcycle drivers in trouble. And it's very hard (not impossible, but hard) to flip.

Most importantly, other drivers on the road tend to give me a berth since they assume it's unsafe to be near me.

[Roota]

I've put in well over half a million kilometres on Thai roads since the late '70s. A few close calls, of course, and the driving here isn't as pleasant as it used to be, due to the massive increase in traffic. But all in all I find it a fine place to drive, better than just about any other country in the region. Anyone who doubts it really ought to spend a few weeks driving around China or India, or even Malaysia or Vietnam. You'll get a quick education.

[NomadJoe]

All your statistics are rubbish because Thailand doesn't count the cause of death from motor vehicle accident if the patient dies after reaching the hospital. In reality Thailand is a distant 1st place. #2 Namibia at 1/30th the size of Thailand shouldn't really count anyway being as small as it is.

The only reason the US is as high as it is is because they keep very accurate statistics when compared to most other countries.

Keep in mind too that most cars on the roads of Thailand are built to a much lower standard than those in the US and other first world country.

[socksy01]

Second worst in the World. Statistics have proven. No further comments needed - stupid thread.

[PaulHamon]

Do your number take into account the way the ROAD statics are recorded in Thailand? I am of the understanding that unless you are DEAD at the SEEN in THAILAND, it is NOT counted as a ROAD DEATH.

If you die later on route to the hospital or in the hospital then it's not attributed.

I've read that the ROAD death numbers are actually therefor under reported some international bodies saying as little as 1/3 - 1/4 of actual deaths cause on the road attributed to it.