ZERO (electric) Motorcycles - what a blast!

[OmegaRacer]

I had the chance to ride all 3 models of Zero electric motorcycles yesterday.

The torque and power delivery are just amazing. The top model (SR) can do 0-100km/h in 3.3sec (in SPORT mode) and I've been told is comparable to a 1.400cc bike (but with only 188kg). What a rush!

Handling is very good on all 3 of them. The only issue I had were the brakes, but these were 2014 models. The 2015 ones will have many upgrades, including suspensions and ABS brakes.

I suggest you go and try them out, you won't regret it. They let you ride on the open road, which is very busy around there, but beats riding in a small parking lot.

You can contact Matthew, a very nice Thai guy who speaks excellent English, at 0898913290.

I'm only posting this because I'm still 'high' from the adrenaline.

http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/

To the map:

https://goo.gl/maps/08Iof

Me, being very impressed...

Edited January 7, 2015 by OmegaRacer

[RubberSideDown]

The fastest bikes do 0-60mph in about 2.5 seconds, but 3.3 seconds ain't slow. The SR. only runs low 13s in the quarter mile, though (which is a truer test of a bike's performance), and that's below pretty much every sportbike 600cc and up. They'll probably be more competitive in a couple of years, though.

What were they asking for them with all the options (like the bigger battery and quick-charger)?

[Shurup]

I bet the prices would keep most of the folks far away!

[OmegaRacer]

I don't know the price of the optionals, but here are the official prices.

They told me that if they can reach a sales quota in the next 2 years, Zero will start production here in Thailand, which will make them more affordable, but still quite expensive though.

[Loptr]

I bet the prices would keep most of the folks far away!

Agreed, at those prices they are gouging the crap out of the customer... The price of lithium-ion batteries has been coming down for the last few year, so there is no reason for prices to be that high... Also, I don't know why these companies haven't switched to LiFE battery tech as it offers a higher amperage discharge rate (more power) than Lithium Ion, higher capacity and a helluva lot safer...

I've been riding one of these for the last couple years in the US... I know, it's not a true motorcycle replacement, but it's a lot of fun... I ride it mostly off road, but also for commuting to the office which was only 15k from my home... Top speed around 45kph and around a 50km range before requiring a recharge... Currently shipping it to Thailand to ride it in Chiang Mai... Should be a blast around the Old City... $2250 USD... No, it's not a Ninja or ER6N, but it fills a niche...

http://www.prodecotech.com/outlaw-ss/

[RubberSideDown]

Ouch- that's pretty expensive- the optional stuff (which you'd of course want) would push the SR to about a mil.

[Shurup]

Let us know how the import process went once you have it.

[Loptr]

Let us know how the import process went once you have it.

I'm on a non-immigrant O visa with retirement extension, which technically is supposed to wave import duties on used, personal items for the first 6 months from the visa date... But we know how that goes...

[impulse]

For us old (and slow) farts, about 1/3 the money (after import fees x all) of the import e-bicycle:

http://la-eride.com/2014/nimble-246.html

http://la-eride.com/2014/

Slower, not as pretty, but gets to the grocery store and back just about as fast as traffic allows... Bought mine off the shelf in BKK- rode it home that day...no waiting.

Edited January 7, 2015 by impulse

[dave_boo]

It's interesting, but considering it would get me into the city and back (at what I assume is power saving riding), the range just isn't there for me.

What would be more interesting, again to me, is a chopper with a ton of batteries. One expects them to be heavy and with the weight coming from the battery packs you could expect quite a range. It appears that each 3 kWh adds ~15kg. The base "S" model weighs 171kg. The Yamaha Bolt weighs 245 kg. Means one could get about another 12 kWh of batteries onboard with a bit of weight left over for the chopper styling. That's 228% more battery life; would be able to get me down to BKK! And is about the range I get from riding very hard on my 500X...

[guzzi850m2]

Yes agreed, very limited range will get people to buy something else and you also need charging options when parking downtown if you use it for work.

Then the bi-cycle option is better (and way cheaper).

I still don't see the small bikes with electric motor AND combustion engine here in Thailand, there must be millions in China and they are very cheap.

[OmegaRacer]

I don't think they have a limited range at all. They are meant to be primarily short to mid range distance bikes. Would you go touring on one? I wouldn't.

Price aside, for a second bike, a bike you use for everyday commuting, they're brilliant and great fun. With an average of 200km of range, you've got plenty of battery life for many days.

[impulse]

I still don't see the small bikes with electric motor AND combustion engine here in Thailand, there must be millions in China and they are very cheap.

In my town in China, (8 Million people), the folks I knew that bought the tri-power did it because of the rules that forbid gasoline powered 2 wheelers in town- bicycles, scooters and big bikes..

They're not allowed to use the engines in town. So they run the gas engine until they get to the invisible line at city limits where they stand to have their bicycle confiscated if they're running the gas engine. Then they go to electric. The only reason for the pedals is backup power, (and the functional pedals are required to qualify as a bicycle).

A lot of them use the gas engine until they see a roadblock where the popo are tossing powered bikes onto a truck, and only then will they turn off the engine and go to battery. But a few have been "surprised" and lost their bikes when the popo step out of nowhere and pull them over.

Without such strange laws about running tiny gasoline engines in town, I just can't see a market for tri-powered bicycles in Thailand.

Another stumbling point is price. I have a better e-bike in China (my 3rd there) that still cost less than half of what I paid here in Thailand. When an e-bike costs as much as a 1 year old scooter (and scooters are legal inside the city), I suspect there will be a limited market for e-bikes. Doubly so for tri-powered bikes because I'd expect them to cost about the same as a scooter, and have a truly bastardized compromise design and durability.

[RubberSideDown]

^^

You can't really put the price aside when you're talking about a 'commuter bike', though. 200km range for the SR is with the larger battery, so it will end up costing around 1mil, while offering less performance than a combustion-engined bike (650cc class) that costs ~300K in LOS. The 700K difference is about 20,000 liters of fuel, which even at a low estimate of 50km/l is 1,000,000km before you'd see a benefit (and that's ignoring the electricity costs to run 1,000,000km on the SR, which at the estimate of USD$1.72 per recharge and assuming comparability in LOS would be over 250,000 baht).

The SR needs to be sub-500K before it would be worth a look here.

[impulse]

^^

You can't really put the price aside when you're talking about a 'commuter bike', though. 200km range for the SR is with the larger battery, so it will end up costing around 1mil, while offering less performance than a combustion-engined bike (650cc class) that costs ~300K in LOS. The 700K difference is about 20,000 liters of fuel, which even at a low estimate of 50km/l is 1,000,000km before you'd see a benefit (and that's ignoring the electricity costs to run 1,000,000km on the SR, which at the estimate of USD$1.72 per recharge and assuming comparability in LOS would be over 250,000 baht).

The SR needs to be sub-500K before it would be worth a look here.

True. Also need to consider replacing the batteries after every xxxx recharges.

I have to wonder what number they claim for xxxx, and the cost of a new battery pack?

Edit: I love the idea of electric vehicles. But I think the companies that win the 2 wheel market will be the ones that bundle the product with a network of "fast recharge" stations (or, better yet, quick exchange of your dead battery for a fresh charge). They'll make some money on selling the vehicle, but the gravy will be selling coffee, snacks, and other things to the guys exchanging their batteries for fresh ones- for some amount of money, of course.

IMO, Harley Davidson is the best positioned, but the door is wide open to any company with deep pockets or a great kickstarter campaign.

Edited January 9, 2015 by impulse

[RubberSideDown]

The bigger battery is a $2500 option in the US, so adding on the usual LOS gouge I can't see it being less than ~125K here.

[guzzi850m2]

So based on the above posters, I think the conclusion is; batteries have to be developed more before it's wort it.

Perhaps in 3-5 years we will see much more battery powered bikes.

[OmegaRacer]

The battery life cycle can last 500.000km before it drops to 80% of capacity.

How long does it take to ride 500k?

[OmegaRacer]

The battery life cycle can last 500.000km before it drops to 80% of capacity.

How long does it take to ride 500k?

[RubberSideDown]

^

You'll likely never ride 500K on any one bike, but at the moment you'd have to ride more than that to break even over a combustion-engined bike.

I have nothing against electric bikes and I'll probably be riding one in ten years- I'm just looking at it from the current economic perspective- unless you're a real environmentalist (and I'm not trying to raise the debate over the pollution that's caused by the battery manufacturing process), it's just not worth it as there are no performance or cost benefits with the current Zero line-up.

Edited January 9, 2015 by RubberSideDown

[guzzi850m2]

The battery life cycle can last 500.000km before it drops to 80% of capacity.

How long does it take to ride 500k?

Life span on batteries are normally time based and have normally nothing to do with distances but okay this is an electric MC we are talking about.

I think the Toyota Piruas batteries are supposed to last 5 years and then you change.

[impulse]

Most if the time, I see battery life in the number of charge cycles, typically 1000-2500

If you take it out, run it 250 Km, then charge it, and do that 2500 times, you're at 625,000 km between battery replacement.

If you run down to the grocery store and back for a whopping 5 km, does that still count as one charging cycle? If so, you're looking at 12,500 km between batteries.

For my sealed lead acid batteries, I seem to get 1 year between replacements. For my Li-Ion batteries, I'm at 2.5 years and still going strong on my first set.

But I'm at the low end with 36V, 12 Amp-Hr Li-Ion (still costs 11,000 baht for a replacement battery so I hope it lasts awhile longer)

[OmegaRacer]

I'm not particularly into electric bikes. I would take a vintage Ducati over any electric bike any day. That said, as a motorcycle enthusiast you can't look the other way. These bikes are coming strong and while there is still much room for improvement, it's hard not to see the change ahead.

Sure, right now they might be not much more than a rich man's toy, but that's going to change pretty soon, just like it happened with mobile phones and computers before that.

I have no interest in promoting one brand over another and I'm not going to go into number crunching...I know too little about them and have no desire to play the devil's advocate.

What I DO know however, is the feeling I got when riding one and I would recommend it to anyone, probably not to buy one, but to get a glimpse of what is ahead of us in the future.

[monkey dog]

For us old (and slow) farts, about 1/3 the money (after import fees x all) of the import e-bicycle:

http://la-eride.com/2014/nimble-246.html

http://la-eride.com/2014/

Slower, not as pretty, but gets to the grocery store and back just about as fast as traffic allows... Bought mine off the shelf in BKK- rode it home that day...no waiting.

do you need a license to ride this in thailand?

price baht 23800.

[Loptr]

I seriously doubt anyone will get 500k of battery life out of ANY li-ion battery packs before it starts dropping cells... From personal experience, you are lucky to get 100 charge cycles before a pack starts to drop cells, effectively killing the pack... And this is with hand-matched, high-quality packs and not cheap Chinese packs.. Li-ion packs are not designed to replace a single cell either, so your looking at replacing at least one or more 3, 6 or 9 cell packs if this happens... This is the same issue that popular hybrid / electric cars face when start to get some age on them...

My experience with epower comes from flying giant scale RC airplanes that have been converted from gas to electric... Some of these beasts pull 300+ amps using 96kwh packs, swinging 34"+ props... The RC crowd have been pushing this envelope for years and the truth is that reliability and longevity are just not there yet...

[impulse]

do you need a license to ride this in thailand?

price baht 23800.

Gosh, I hope not. I've ridden mine for almost 3 years with nary a look from the popo.

Occasionally, I get approached by curious locals, and have even let a few take a test ride. I imagine one day I'll be posting on TVF about getting my e-bike stolen by someone who just rode it off...

My best research indicates there is no license or insurance required.

But I am keenly aware that, if a black Mercedes hits me (even while I'm standing still at a red light or riding in the "bicycles only" lane), I'm probably going to have to pay for the scratch in the Benz...

Edited January 9, 2015 by impulse

[OmegaRacer]

Good news for electric bikes!

http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news--general-news/new-battery-technology-heralds-breakthrough-for-electric-vehicles/26116.html#ixzz3OLq1lFXO

[BSJ]

The fuel of the future hasn't come to light yet. It may come from another planet. NASA is always digging around on the moon and elsewhere. It's not improbable they will find something.

In the mean time we have electric...and batteries. Maybe something will happen on the hydrogen fuel cell front, but I wouldn't hold my breath!

So as a novelty the electric bike and scooter are useful but still a novelty. Like has been mentioned they need models fitted with the LIfe batteries and prices that are reasonable for them to take a place in the market. 600k+ baht is simply bl00dy ridiculous!

[A1Str8]

I think it's not the price but the ugly design that will keep anybody away from these.

[dave_boo]

I don't understand why they can't put a wee 8 hp engine (Wankel ftw or even a 2T) on an electric bike and use that to charge the batteries. An 8 hp engine can easily generate 4 kW. Would be sufficient to keep the batteries fully charged whilst you ride. Seems a lot of scooters get around 60 km/L; would indicate about 1 litre an hour. To have such performance at ~30 baht/hr, or approximately 25 satang/km, makes more sense to me.