German Viking Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 A few families with conglomerates like CP, Saha, Thaibev, etc. control the market from animal food to processed meat and from seeds to products in the shop and the market. They also control the government, civil servants, etc. They keep any competitor out, dictate the prices and that's why they make huge amounts of money. The past few years the price increases have been much faster than before and this elite group is robbing the lower and middle class people completely dry. It's ridiculous that in a low wage country like Thailand, one of the worlds biggest food exporters the food prices are now at a western European level, it's pure exploitation by these about 20 families that run the show. In the past year many of my daily expenses like lunch, coffee, fruit, beer, pork etc have all gone up by 25%! Ya, it's awful. Restaurant Prices in Thailand are 63.46% lower than in Germany Restaurant Prices in France are 260.09% higher than in Thailand Restaurant Prices in Belgium are 279.31% higher than in Thailand http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_countries_result.jsp?country1=Thailand&country2=Belgium And why is it in Thailand cheaper, caused of their low wages, below the average of your statistics . You don't know what statistics means in English. You are using the word incorrectly. Look it up; use the word correctly. If you want better information post a better website of your choosing. Simple anecdotal evidence from one or two posters as opposed to data derived from thousands does not really compare. We go through this every time Western folk want to promote the West. First they say the West is cheaper and when that is proved wrong they say the West is better and when they can't find a link to demonstrate that is correct they attack the method of gathering data even though they have no idea what the method is. It is the same nonsense over and over again. People from the West retire in Thailand because it is cheaper. Retired people from the West are not paid from working in Thailand and take advantage of lower wages in Thailand for doing the same work as the West for example doctors and waitresses. Wages for doctors in Thailand are cheaper so my medical bills are less. Wages in Thailand are cheaper so my cost of service for preparation and serving food is less in Thailand than in the West. I understand this and that's why I live here. It's cheaper. You post all night long because you don't live in Thailand and are not on Thai time. We all get that but your jealously is really showing through. Stick to the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
German Viking Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Ya, it's awful. Restaurant Prices in Thailand are 63.46% lower than in Germany Restaurant Prices in France are 260.09% higher than in Thailand Restaurant Prices in Belgium are 279.31% higher than in Thailand http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_countries_result.jsp?country1=Thailand&country2=Belgi You like only pick the raisins out you should learn to read statistics use a calculator and compare everything in your statistics. sta·tis·tics stəˈtistiks/ noun noun: statistics the practice or science of collecting and analyzing numerical data in large quantities, especially for the purpose of inferring proportions in a whole from those in a representative sample. You are confusing the terms statistics and data/information. There is nothing wrong with statistical methods. If the data is wrong then the conclusions will be wrong. If you have a better website with better data feel to present it. However, your uneducated opinion is worthless except when considered as the opinion of one man living in Germany. You should learn to use your calculator and in top you pick only the raisins out of your statistics. Again stick to the facts this topic is not a spelling lesson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thailiketoo Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Stick to the facts. You wrote, "And why is it in Thailand cheaper, caused of their low wages, below the average of your statistics ." I wrote, (condensed) yes prices are cheaper in Thailand because wages are cheaper. Land is cheaper, housing is cheaper, almost everything is cheaper and one facet is,wages, which are also cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thailiketoo Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 You like only pick the raisins out you should learn to read statistics use a calculator and compare everything in your statistics. sta·tis·tics stəˈtistiks/ noun noun: statistics the practice or science of collecting and analyzing numerical data in large quantities, especially for the purpose of inferring proportions in a whole from those in a representative sample. You are confusing the terms statistics and data/information. There is nothing wrong with statistical methods. If the data is wrong then the conclusions will be wrong. If you have a better website with better data feel to present it. However, your uneducated opinion is worthless except when considered as the opinion of one man living in Germany. You should learn to use your calculator and in top you pick only the raisins out of your statistics. Again stick to the facts this topic is not a spelling lesson. You mean data not statistics. What is wrong with my data? Show me. I said wages are cheaper hence everything effected by wages is also cheaper. So? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
German Viking Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Many things are cheaper in Europe than in Thailand now. Can somebody explain why this is when tax is only 7% here and in EU approximately 20-25% ? Currency strength (THB) and weakness (EUR). This is only a part of the reason. And what are the other parts or are they secret! Politics, THB go up and down with the US $ have nothing to do with Thailands economy, but for sure actually to many banana states in EU, but the weak Euro is good for EU exports, USA and Thailand crying, caused of this situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiang mai Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Currency strength (THB) and weakness (EUR). This is only a part of the reason. And what are the other parts or are they secret! Politics, THB go up and down with the US $ have nothing to do with Thailands economy, but for sure actually to many banana states in EU, but the weak Euro is good for EU exports, USA and Thailand crying, caused of this situation. Politics!! And I thought we were going to have a sensible discussion. Big Sigh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratcatcher Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Most middlemen are not Thai: Tesco = British Tops = Dutch Villa = Farang etc etc. Any company that operates in Thailand must be at least 51% Thai! And actually, the companies you listed are not middlemen but are instead consumer sales outlets. I suggest you take a closer look at the share structures of Tesco, Big C and Tops, as it will learn you that actually all three are majority foreign owned. Villa Market is Thai owned by the way. Glad you took the trouble to straighten out chottee's attempt at having a go at foreigners. Tesco Lotus - Thai - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesco_Lotus Big C - Thai - owned as part of Group Casino France -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_C http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupe_Casino Siam Makro - Thai - CP Group - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makro Tops - Thai - Part of Central Food Retail Group (ex USA) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tops_Supermarket Max Value - Thai-Japanese - Aeon Group - ex Jusco Villa Market - Thai owned. Foodland - Thai Owned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maidee Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 must be CP ? making food from OIL ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
German Viking Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Stick to the facts. You wrote, "And why is it in Thailand cheaper, caused of their low wages, below the average of your statistics ." I wrote, (condensed) yes prices are cheaper in Thailand because wages are cheaper. Land is cheaper, housing is cheaper, almost everything is cheaper and one facet is,wages, which are also cheaper. But the quality of living is somethings about wages and what you can buy for in your own country. If I can earn about 4 times more, then I can pay about 4 times more for my costs of living without to go down in my standart quality of living. That's true. Poor people in your country would live better in Thailand. Middle class people live about the same and rich people I imagine would live better in Germany. A lot of Thai rich people live in Germany. For a person on a fixed income pension I live better in Thailand than the USA. I agree, If I compare the costs of living to the average income, then is the living standart in germany very good. Our problem are only the banana states in EU we have to feed. I live in the southwest on the rhine river the warmest climate in germany, with mild winters, some ppl call it the Toscana of germany, full of vineyards about 400 km up and down the river on both sides and good food for reasonable prices. Everybody can buy land 100% in his own name, the same rules to found a company 100% in the own name. For foreigners the same rules. Maybe we should call Germany, Thailand (Land of the frees). I have no reason to leave this country, my idea was only to go 3 - 4 month during the winter time to Thailand. I been the first time in Thailand about 15 years ago, to much having changed, but nothing positive. I have only to think about for another destination, for my winter holidays, during my pension time, unfortunately. Caused I have no hope that somethings will change, to the positive, in Thailand. For me mission accomplished. Carpe diem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
German Viking Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 farmers coops have been an effective tool against the middlemans excessive profit in many countries. its does not require a whole lot of cooperation between the farmers and the retail shopsfor much of the farm products. Thailand even has middlemen directly involved between the farmer and some of the wholesalers. Does anybody know of any collectives? I suspect that being a leader/representative of a farmers collective (which are good for many reasons), working to cut out the middlemen, would be a very unhealthy occupation. It would probably also require a basic education in mathematics and economics , and the Thai education system does not encourage this. Why do you think the Chinese middlemen educate their children in international schools or overseas? Subsistence Sufficiency farming is one of the cornerstones of Thai Happiness. Let us not incite the masses to get educated... Actually sufficiency farming if done as suggested by the king is a good idea. If you raise almost everything you eat then sell the excess instead of only one crop for sale then purchase everything else the farmers would be better off. Also if they learned how to preserve their food for future use they would have more. I know they dry fish and some dry meat to save for the future but I don't see that going on with fruits or vegetables. When i was a kid we raised apples that we froze for apple pies and made apple butter. We raised green beans, potatoes, cucumbers, strawberries pumpkins etc etc etc all of which we canned for the winter. if we had not raised and canned most of what we ate in the winter we would have starved. There is no reason many thais that live in the country can't do the same. Hell I am doing it some but not to the extent our family did when I was a kid but my kids are learning how to save money by doing it. For instance I just made a batch of pickled vegetables that my kids have started eating already. I make my own breakfast sausage for about 150 baht a kg instead of paying over 300 baht a kg in the store. I bake my own pizzas, bread, cakes, cookies and pies. I make chocolate deserts using cocoa powder. All of which I am teaching my kids to do also. I can also confirm that in the last month the amount I am paid by the middleman for my produce has dropped by 25% but I attribute that to seasonal price fluctuations. I have no idea what the price the middleman sells at so I don't know if he uses the seasonal price fluctuations to make more money or not. Many times I use the prices at Makro to gauge if the price he pays me will go up or down and most of the time it matches fairly well. I'm raised similar as you, in autum time we made Sauerkraut, Sour Beans(fermentation), we stored potatoes and carrots in wooden boxes in the cool basement. we canned(in glasses) fruits and vegetables and slaughtered 2 pigs and canned it(this was every time a big party(Schlachtfest) and all men drunken in the evening). We raised over the summertime up to 100 rabbits. We was not farmers we had only a small field beside and a garden behind the house, to produce some fruits, vegetables, potatoes for us and some food for for the animals for sure to save money, but the very good side effect was we ate very healthy food, without all this chemical in the proceeded food from the supermarkets. I miss this times sometimes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I think the only obvious answer is that the farmer is faced with too few buyers and thus the buyers face too little competition. If there was one market I would love to reform in Thailand it would be agribusiness. Foreign companies in. Cooperatives in and increased. Market info and pricing publicised . every market to have a govt entity inside making up 15% of the market to keep everyone honest. Foreign companies allowed into retailing. The farmers get too little and the middle guys too much. Sick really. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I think the only obvious answer is that the farmer is faced with too few buyers and thus the buyers face too little competition. If there was one market I would love to reform in Thailand it would be agribusiness. Foreign companies in. Cooperatives in and increased. Market info and pricing publicised . every market to have a govt entity inside making up 15% of the market to keep everyone honest. Foreign companies allowed into retailing. The farmers get too little and the middle guys too much. Sick really. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
German Viking Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I think the only obvious answer is that the farmer is faced with too few buyers and thus the buyers face too little competition. If there was one market I would love to reform in Thailand it would be agribusiness. Foreign companies in. Cooperatives in and increased. Market info and pricing publicised . every market to have a govt entity inside making up 15% of the market to keep everyone honest. Foreign companies allowed into retailing. The farmers get too little and the middle guys too much. Sick really. Nice Idea, but wrong country will never be happen, unfortunately. Thailand is not USA or Germany etc. different mentality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I think the only obvious answer is that the farmer is faced with too few buyers and thus the buyers face too little competition. If there was one market I would love to reform in Thailand it would be agribusiness. Foreign companies in. Cooperatives in and increased. Market info and pricing publicised . every market to have a govt entity inside making up 15% of the market to keep everyone honest. Foreign companies allowed into retailing. The farmers get too little and the middle guys too much. Sick really. Nice Idea, but wrong country will never be happen, unfortunately. Thailand is not USA or Germany etc. different mentality. Don't be so sure. Why do you think companies like CP and the banks have been so desperate to keep the Dems or the army in power. This is their traditional power base who granter all these monopolies. Eventually it will change. The rubber farmers are broke, the rice farmers are broke, the chicken and egg farmers barely make a penny. Meanwhile Thailand glories in its number one exporter spot for rice and rubber. And you tell me that something isn't ripe for a change. All run by Thai Chinese owner companies with protected businesses. Disgusting really. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiang mai Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Folks wondering about who/what the middlemen are might want to examine the pharma. industry where pharmaceuticals are imported by third parties and distributed to smaller pharmacies after prices have been adjusted. It's easy to blame the global conglomerates on the high cost of some medicines in Thailand and of course, private hospitals compound the problem. The major problem however is the control, import and distribution of medicines to smaller and medium sized pharmacies which seems to be almost totally under private control. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thailiketoo Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Would you say that union membership was 98 or 99%? I germany you are never forced to join any Union this is up to you, but the will try to catch you as a member. You said this, but there was never a rates like this, but until the middle of the 90th. was common in Car + steel factories around 80% IG Metall. The unions in germany lost a lot of face and members over the last 2 decades in germany. Mainly IG Metall during the fusions Krupp + Hoesch about 2 years later joined Thyssen this fusion. The last big blame for IG Metall was the closing of the Opel Factory in Bochum Dez. 2014. The average auto worker in Germany made $67.14 per hour in salary in benefits; the average one in the U.S. made $33.77 per hour. First thes rates are the costs for the factory, anyway your get what you pay for. Ya I guess you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metisdead Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Off topic posts and replies have been removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benmart Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Many things are cheaper in Europe than in Thailand now. Can somebody explain why this is when tax is only 7% here and in EU approximately 20-25% ? I germany are different VAT on food the general VAT is 19% on all other products. Fore example: Eating in a restaurant + 19% Take away + 7% Some food 7% some 19% just a crazy system without logic. http://www.dehoga-hamburg.de/userfiles/file/Mehrwertsteuerkarte%20Europa_100701%20(1).pdf It does seem crazy sometimes. The option of choice is something overlooked by many, appreciatied by some and criticized by the near sighted. I shop with my glasses firmly attached to my face, walking stick in hand, in an attempt to negotiate the maze of bargains and pitfalls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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