Europe's Muslims feel heat of backlash after Paris terror

[chuckd]

Agreed, but I still feel badly for the Muslims that just want live their lives peacefully and fit into Western society.

the problem is very few want to fit in to western society. They want us to fit in to sharia, the call to pray while annoying can be argued the same as Christian Church bells but my not being able to eat pork in front of them or buy it in my local Market because it is haram is bs, same with not allowed to buy alchohol, drinking or talking to a pretty woman. Where are the Jewish, Christian, Buddhist, or hindu prayer rooms in airports?

Wow... you don't know shit I presume...

95% of Muslims in France are completely "fitting in" in France, 4.9% don't try but stay in their apartments and are the older people and their kids brought to France in the 20's and 30's to build apartments that were given citizenship and parked in lousy apartments. the other part which represents less than 1% are stupid <deleted> claiming they are fighting in the name of Allah... exactly the same minority as the ones trowing stones and pig heads at Mosques...

"95% of Muslims in France are completely "fitting in" in France"

You just made that stat up; didn't you?

Let's look at these made up statistics.

I have seen estimates where there are approximately 6.5 million Muslims in France.

1. If, as Amir claims, 95% are fitting in that would mean 6,175,000 of them are peaceful supporters of the French way.

2. Amir goes on to claim 4.9% are sitting in their rocking chairs watching television, and are another 318,500 non-combatants.

3. Amir then goes on to claim 1% are "stupid <deleted> fighting in the name of Allah". Since the percentages he cited add up to 100.9% of the total population, I can only assume he meant that only 0.001% are those <deleted> persons he describes. Carrying on on with my assumption of his 0.001 as being the <deleted> types, that would bring their numbers up to a grand total of 6,500 individuals.

Considering the mayhem caused by the three Islamic terrorists in France, just imagine what problems some 6,500 like minded Islamic terrorists could cause the French nation and Europe in general.

More frighteningly, project Amir's own guess that 0.001 of the 1.7 BILLION Muslims world wide are radicals and your answer arrives at a standing army of...1.7 MILLION potential jihadis.

Think about it

[Ulysses G.]

More frighteningly, project Amir's own guess that 0.001 of the 1.7 BILLION Muslims world wide are radicals and your answer arrives at a standing army of...1.7 MILLION potential jihadis.

Think about it

Most estimates are at least 10% of the 1.7 BILLION Muslims world wide support radical Islam. Thinks about that.

[NoshowJones]

Agreed, but I still feel badly for the Muslims that just want live their lives peacefully and fit into Western society.

haven't met them yet...

peacefully yes but integrating-no...

A Muslim wanting to fit into Western society??????????????

[ginglee]

Agreed, but I still feel badly for the Muslims that just want live their lives peacefully and fit into Western society.

the problem is very few want to fit in to western society. They want us to fit in to sharia, the call to pray while annoying can be argued the same as Christian Church bells but my not being able to eat pork in front of them or buy it in my local Market because it is haram is bs, same with not allowed to buy alchohol, drinking or talking to a pretty woman. Where are the Jewish, Christian, Buddhist, or hindu prayer rooms in airports?

Wow... you don't know shit I presume...

95% of Muslims in France are completely "fitting in" in France, 4.9% don't try but stay in their apartments and are the older people and their kids brought to France in the 20's and 30's to build apartments that were given citizenship and parked in lousy apartments. the other part which represents less than 1% are stupid <deleted> claiming they are fighting in the name of Allah... exactly the same minority as the ones trowing stones and pig heads at Mosques...

Ok but what are the 99.9?(I'd like to know where you got those stats) doing abut the radicals within their own mosques? Because that's where these radicals are coming from...It's seems to me that the muslim community are offloading the responsibility...or maybe quietly agreeing to what is going on ?

....95%+4.9%+1%= ??? it has to add up to 100% ............... I guess you are in the 1% of the stupid ones?

Chuckd- Apologies just read your post ...you got there before me ! haha

Edited January 14, 2015 by ginglee

[NoshowJones]

Good post Canman, and what about all those who were dancing in the streets of Pattaya on the night of Sept 11th? of course that was only 5% of them, right?

[ginglee]

More frighteningly, project Amir's own guess that 0.001 of the 1.7 BILLION Muslims world wide are radicals and your answer arrives at a standing army of...1.7 MILLION potential jihadis.

Think about it

Most estimates are at least 10% of the 1.7 BILLION Muslims world wide support radical Islam. Thinks about that.

Yes....in Paris it took 3 radicals to take out 17 innocent people....theres approx. 7 billion people in the world...If all the Muslims turned, then it really wouldn't take long ! A very sobering thought...

[thhMan]

Perhaps the classification should be changed...

Make Muslim a group instead of a religion, that way they are not protected by its hatred

Same can also be said for other religions

Anyway, Religion is sooo 16th century... Same as Mullets and Black and White TV

[Suffinator]

Multiculturalism isn't working because of political correctness which is merely a weapon used by minority ethnic groups.

Is Political Correctness Destroying Community Cohesion?

It doesn't matter how you dress this up we are now seeing a rise in the nationalist groups who want nothing more than to take back their country and tear the Mosques down.

Maybe it's time the Muslims made a choice; for those who truly want to live in the west in peace then maybe they should adopt the culture and religion and have done with it ... if Islam is critical to their lives they there are many Islamic countries available to reside in.

[h90]

Agreed, but I still feel badly for the Muslims that just want live their lives peacefully and fit into Western society.

Correct, maybe if they denounce violence more often and work more to keep track on radicals.

On the other hand that is not really their job and I don't denounce all Dutch criminals i see in Thailand.

Always hard.

yes I never heard some Iman reporting crazy ones.....

[Amir]

Agreed, but I still feel badly for the Muslims that just want live their lives peacefully and fit into Western society.

the problem is very few want to fit in to western society. They want us to fit in to sharia, the call to pray while annoying can be argued the same as Christian Church bells but my not being able to eat pork in front of them or buy it in my local Market because it is haram is bs, same with not allowed to buy alchohol, drinking or talking to a pretty woman. Where are the Jewish, Christian, Buddhist, or hindu prayer rooms in airports?

Wow... you don't know shit I presume...

95% of Muslims in France are completely "fitting in" in France, 4.9% don't try but stay in their apartments and are the older people and their kids brought to France in the 20's and 30's to build apartments that were given citizenship and parked in lousy apartments. the other part which represents less than 1% are stupid <deleted> claiming they are fighting in the name of Allah... exactly the same minority as the ones trowing stones and pig heads at Mosques...

"95% of Muslims in France are completely "fitting in" in France"

You just made that stat up; didn't you?

I am french and lived there before living here and I know. Of course I made that number up... Whether it's 95, 96 or 94% is irrelevant. You barely don't see people in France that don't want to "fit in", only "10" stupid guys that are shown on TV...

Take 100 people that are muslims in an office in Paris... you won't find one that is not integrated and feels french... Its only a very small minority and this is the one that is shown on TV...

Edited January 14, 2015 by Amir

[Amir]

the problem is very few want to fit in to western society. They want us to fit in to sharia, the call to pray while annoying can be argued the same as Christian Church bells but my not being able to eat pork in front of them or buy it in my local Market because it is haram is bs, same with not allowed to buy alchohol, drinking or talking to a pretty woman. Where are the Jewish, Christian, Buddhist, or hindu prayer rooms in airports?

Wow... you don't know shit I presume...

95% of Muslims in France are completely "fitting in" in France, 4.9% don't try but stay in their apartments and are the older people and their kids brought to France in the 20's and 30's to build apartments that were given citizenship and parked in lousy apartments. the other part which represents less than 1% are stupid <deleted> claiming they are fighting in the name of Allah... exactly the same minority as the ones trowing stones and pig heads at Mosques...

"95% of Muslims in France are completely "fitting in" in France"

You just made that stat up; didn't you?

Let's look at these made up statistics.

I have seen estimates where there are approximately 6.5 million Muslims in France.

1. If, as Amir claims, 95% are fitting in that would mean 6,175,000 of them are peaceful supporters of the French way.

2. Amir goes on to claim 4.9% are sitting in their rocking chairs watching television, and are another 318,500 non-combatants.

3. Amir then goes on to claim 1% are "stupid <deleted> fighting in the name of Allah". Since the percentages he cited add up to 100.9% of the total population, I can only assume he meant that only 0.001% are those <deleted> persons he describes. Carrying on on with my assumption of his 0.001 as being the <deleted> types, that would bring their numbers up to a grand total of 6,500 individuals.

Considering the mayhem caused by the three Islamic terrorists in France, just imagine what problems some 6,500 like minded Islamic terrorists could cause the French nation and Europe in general.

More frighteningly, project Amir's own guess that 0.001 of the 1.7 BILLION Muslims world wide are radicals and your answer arrives at a standing army of...1.7 MILLION potential jihadis.

Think about it

Come one... you know very good what I meant... These numbers are a picture. If you are so smart and a math freak, why you don't go and look for yourself, go to Paris, make a survey... take 1000 Muslims and see for yourself if you can find only one single person that is a menace to society because he is an Islamist radical and wants to kill in the name of Allah. I doubt you will find one. I even doubt that you will find 20 of them that pray 5 times a day... You probably will find a few that have wife's that cover their hair and pray 5 times a day but it doesn't mean that they are not adapting to day to day life in Paris.

[Amir]

Agreed, but I still feel badly for the Muslims that just want live their lives peacefully and fit into Western society.

the problem is very few want to fit in to western society. They want us to fit in to sharia, the call to pray while annoying can be argued the same as Christian Church bells but my not being able to eat pork in front of them or buy it in my local Market because it is haram is bs, same with not allowed to buy alchohol, drinking or talking to a pretty woman. Where are the Jewish, Christian, Buddhist, or hindu prayer rooms in airports?

Wow... you don't know shit I presume...

95% of Muslims in France are completely "fitting in" in France, 4.9% don't try but stay in their apartments and are the older people and their kids brought to France in the 20's and 30's to build apartments that were given citizenship and parked in lousy apartments. the other part which represents less than 1% are stupid <deleted> claiming they are fighting in the name of Allah... exactly the same minority as the ones trowing stones and pig heads at Mosques...

....95%+4.9%+1%= ??? it has to add up to 100% ............... I guess you are in the 1% of the stupid ones?

If you read litteraly what I wrotte and can't understand that it's a "picture"... than you are as dumb as those applying the same rules by reading and doing 100% what is stated on all different religious books (without thinking, adapting and evolving in time)... that leads to integrism...

[mrbojangles]

Agreed, but I still feel badly for the Muslims that just want live their lives peacefully and fit into Western society.

haven't met them yet...

peacefully yes but integrating-no...

So what ? do you speak Thai.. go to the Thai temple.. forgot about where you came from.. do you live in a farang ghetto ? Pattaya .. Phuket ect ? Do you only eat Thai food drink Thai beers ?

Immigrants complaining about other immigrants not integrating

Sorry but i prefer to stay how I am instead of turning Thai, give those Muslims the same cutesy as long as they are peaceful.

Different kettle of Fish IMO. The discussion is about European Muslims i.e. people of Muslim faith who have citizenship of a European country and send their kids to school, have the freedom to work in that country, pay taxes and collect government handout's etc, etc. They therefore should have a "belonging" to that country and a reason to integrate.

Foreigners in Thailand (barring the odd one who gets citizenship) stay exactly that, a foreigner, an alien who has to report every xxxx months even if you have married a Thai. And I'd call marrying a Thai, having a Luk Krueng together, mixing with the Thai family etc a lot more akin to integrating than worrying about what brand of beer one drinks or how spicy your food is (even though you bought your non Thai beer and food from a Thai restaurant/shop/bar). The pure fact that you sit down to have dinner or whatever with a Thai(s) is a step in the right direction to integration.

You also asked Crazy Chef if he went to a Thai Temple. What has that got to do with anything? Not all Thai's go to Temples.

[arjunadawn]

Agreed, but I still feel badly for the Muslims that just want live their lives peacefully and fit into Western society.

the problem is very few want to fit in to western society. They want us to fit in to sharia, the call to pray while annoying can be argued the same as Christian Church bells but my not being able to eat pork in front of them or buy it in my local Market because it is haram is bs, same with not allowed to buy alchohol, drinking or talking to a pretty woman. Where are the Jewish, Christian, Buddhist, or hindu prayer rooms in airports?

Wow... you don't know shit I presume...

95% of Muslims in France are completely "fitting in" in France, 4.9% don't try but stay in their apartments and are the older people and their kids brought to France in the 20's and 30's to build apartments that were given citizenship and parked in lousy apartments. the other part which represents less than 1% are stupid <deleted> claiming they are fighting in the name of Allah... exactly the same minority as the ones trowing stones and pig heads at Mosques...

Whenever someone requires rudeness to make their point you can be pretty certain that it will be dubious. Rudeness is just another form of scare tactic, designed in this case to deliver a faulty point by disarming the poster.

But I will bite: If there are 7.7 million muslims in France (Jean-Paul Gourévitch, La croisade islamiste, Pascal Galodé , 2011, p.136) and only 5%, according to you, don't "fit" in, that leaves over 350,000 muslims in France that pose a potential threat to both integration and security. Irrespective of the label minority, this poses an existential threat to France. Even if we toyed with the fantastical number 1%, we are still left with a staggering threat to civil society.

When these numbers, however high or low, are considered in the context of ongoing, increasing global jihad under the banner of islam, then these numbers reveal an even more ominous sign.

[Tubby]

Agreed, but I still feel badly for the Muslims that just want live their lives peacefully and fit into Western society.

But thats thw whole point, yes all Muslims are not extremist, but they do NOT try to integrate into the country that has allowed them their freedom. They DO NOT contribute a dam thing. the UK has gone to the dogs for this very reason. I dont even feel in my homeland anymore. Im sorry if this upsets people, but enough is enough, They erode everything away from British tradition or anywhere else for that matter. I have no sympathy what so ever. Screw them all

[wabothai]

Randomly attack moslims makes things worse.

These people need to control themselves and think before they act.

[Tubby]

Randomly attack moslims makes things worse.

These people need to control themselves and think before they act.

they should control their own, this is going to spiral out of control, right wing groups will take control then civil war will break out. Thats the reality of this.

[biggles45]

'I certainly don't assimilate (that is what many people mean when they write integrate). I keep my values and I see no problems with Muslims doing the same. "

I don' think many people would argue with your statement. Unfortunately Islam is intolerant of other beliefs and they want everyone to bend to their wishes. Not that many years ago there were massacres in Aceh, the local muslims gave the christians the option of changing their faith or dying. These were not radicals and the faiths had been living together for years. Not exactly a religion of peace and tolerance.

[Chwooly]

So Amir, How is your picture any more accurate then my statement?

I didn't try to hide behind BS made up numbers.

The truth is the truth, Go to a muslim country and ask that they build a church or temple to Buddha and see what happens. But muslims come to western countries and try to demand we follow sharia and respect them. Look at the lawsuits in the US where they sue to try to have the US allow women to get drivers licenses with their face covered, or get/use passports with their face covered, I have even seen Muslims argue with immigration in Indonesia because they don't want to uncover the woman's face for immigration and that is a muslim country.

So defend it all you want, You won't change my mind as to how much they assimilate into western countries.

[Prbkk]

You will recall that in the wake of 9/11 vigilante nutters were attacking people they thought might be Muslim ..including the murder of Sikhs and at least one Hindu. It's a slippery slope when the underbelly starts handing out 'justice' or retribution. Very Germany 1933.

[Bakeman]

Agreed, but I still feel badly for the Muslims that just want live their lives peacefully and fit into Western society.

the problem is very few want to fit in to western society. They want us to fit in to sharia, the call to pray while annoying can be argued the same as Christian Church bells but my not being able to eat pork in front of them or buy it in my local Market because it is haram is bs, same with not allowed to buy alchohol, drinking or talking to a pretty woman. Where are the Jewish, Christian, Buddhist, or hindu prayer rooms in airports?

Wow... you don't know shit I presume...

95% of Muslims in France are completely "fitting in" in France, 4.9% don't try but stay in their apartments and are the older people and their kids brought to France in the 20's and 30's to build apartments that were given citizenship and parked in lousy apartments. the other part which represents less than 1% are stupid <deleted> claiming they are fighting in the name of Allah... exactly the same minority as the ones trowing stones and pig heads at Mosques...

I disagree Amir. Where are you getting your numbers from? Also where are you getting your definition of assimilation? Assimilation is the process of adapting or adjusting to the culture of a group or nation, or the state of being so adapted. Many Muslims migrate to other countries but never adapt religiously or fashionably. They set up their mosques and scream their religion for all to hear whether they want to or not. There is no ADAPTATION or TOLERANCE given by Muslims. Its their way or the highway. You can't go into someone else's country, not assimilate, and then retaliate when people don't adapt to Muslim culture or sharia law.

Advice;

When you go to another country you must tolerate and adapt as well. You must respect the countries way of life if you intend to settle there. Do the best you can and not fight the system or kill the people when they don't do as Muslims do.

[Shiver]

I wonder how much of what we hear/see that forms our opinions was manufactured rather than just reported as is?

It was my (not deeply researched, admittedly) thought, that religions were a personal thing, and not generally about violence to others. Qur'an and Bible seem to have a lot of crossover in their stories (as a non comprehensive example), though interpretations of both are legion.

We (I'm speaking as largely western observers), have fallen hook-line-sinker for the utter lies of our own 'perfect masters' that orchestrate this stuff at the expense of everyone else. We are victims of it too, though less so that those on the receiving end of a bullet or bomb, or their friends/families for that matter. I don't think anyone could justify to me how months old babies in another country as 'collateral damage' could in any way be spin doctored as a success in removing 'terrorists' (I don't mean Muslims, I mean the people instigating this kind of stuff on a mass scale).

If I lost a couple of million of my country folk and the 'opposition' (as projected to us) lost a handful, I would still be feeling pain.

I'm Western, and non religious, but I can try to stand in another persons shoes and see if I can understand the plight of more than one side - though it's a real nest of rats to untangle and not just a game of two sides.

A loss for one is a loss for all.

[bob6130]

We are not talking about people here, we are talking about a religion.

Ever since that bloke took everything and turned it around from our religion (even talking to Gabriel the Angel)we have had problems.

Theirs is the only true RELIGION, to them it is a fact.

We as Christians and Hebrews are a lesser form and must pay the Imams tax to be able to live amongst them.

We are not allowed to build Church,s or any place of worship because it is not recognised.

The Muslim faith does not assimilate with other countries because it is not allowed by their law.

They are forced by dictates handed down from the sand dwellers to take over the world in the name of Islam.

HATE THE RELIGION, HATE THE IMAMS.

They had a good Religion at one time but HATE made it bad.

Sad.

[ggt]

This backlash could have been prevented if the Muslims living in free democratic countries would join the host country in denouncing the Islamic terrorists...by sitting on their hands...they are giving tacit approval for the terrorists criminal activity...

[jaywalker]

Agreed, but I still feel badly for the Muslims that just want live their lives peacefully and fit into Western society.

haven't met them yet...

peacefully yes but integrating-no...

So what ? do you speak Thai.. go to the Thai temple.. forgot about where you came from.. do you live in a farang ghetto ? Pattaya .. Phuket ect ? Do you only eat Thai food drink Thai beers ?

Immigrants complaining about other immigrants not integrating

Sorry but i prefer to stay how I am instead of turning Thai, give those Muslims the same cutesy as long as they are peaceful.

valid points...but i try NOT to change my host country or live from their social security...and to some points yes i integrate...

Forsooth! At least we integrate to the point where we don't go around screaming about our God whilst shooting people...

[chuckd]

Wow... you don't know shit I presume...

95% of Muslims in France are completely "fitting in" in France, 4.9% don't try but stay in their apartments and are the older people and their kids brought to France in the 20's and 30's to build apartments that were given citizenship and parked in lousy apartments. the other part which represents less than 1% are stupid <deleted> claiming they are fighting in the name of Allah... exactly the same minority as the ones trowing stones and pig heads at Mosques...

"95% of Muslims in France are completely "fitting in" in France"

You just made that stat up; didn't you?

Let's look at these made up statistics.

I have seen estimates where there are approximately 6.5 million Muslims in France.

1. If, as Amir claims, 95% are fitting in that would mean 6,175,000 of them are peaceful supporters of the French way.

2. Amir goes on to claim 4.9% are sitting in their rocking chairs watching television, and are another 318,500 non-combatants.

3. Amir then goes on to claim 1% are "stupid <deleted> fighting in the name of Allah". Since the percentages he cited add up to 100.9% of the total population, I can only assume he meant that only 0.001% are those <deleted> persons he describes. Carrying on on with my assumption of his 0.001 as being the <deleted> types, that would bring their numbers up to a grand total of 6,500 individuals.

Considering the mayhem caused by the three Islamic terrorists in France, just imagine what problems some 6,500 like minded Islamic terrorists could cause the French nation and Europe in general.

More frighteningly, project Amir's own guess that 0.001 of the 1.7 BILLION Muslims world wide are radicals and your answer arrives at a standing army of...1.7 MILLION potential jihadis.

Think about it

Come one... you know very good what I meant... These numbers are a picture. If you are so smart and a math freak, why you don't go and look for yourself, go to Paris, make a survey... take 1000 Muslims and see for yourself if you can find only one single person that is a menace to society because he is an Islamist radical and wants to kill in the name of Allah. I doubt you will find one. I even doubt that you will find 20 of them that pray 5 times a day... You probably will find a few that have wife's that cover their hair and pray 5 times a day but it doesn't mean that they are not adapting to day to day life in Paris.

I spent over 30 years working and living in Saudi Arabia and 5 years in Iran. I expect my knowledge of Islamic thinking is just as reliable as your wild eyed estimates.

I lost one of my employees to Al Qaida in an attack precisely like the one in Paris so your living among them is hardly something I will find very impressive.

I suggest you retire and come back when you have some data that is backed up by some reliable source.

Pulling statistics out of your ear (or any other bodily orifice) aren't conducive to intelligent conversation

[Thai at Heart]

Religious "faith" is believing in something one knows isn't true.

Samuel Clemens

There is no proof for any faith, that is why atheists are increasing. But the moment you tell Thais you have no beliefs they look at you like your some sort of monster. While in fact your the only reasonable one. All those religious books are on par with those Grimm wrote.

"But the moment you tell Thais you have no beliefs they look at you like your some sort of monster. While in fact your the only reasonable one."

This is a rather interesting comment.

I have been coming to Thailand since 1976 and have had a permanent residence here since the 1980s.

I have never had a Thai ask me what my religion is nor even express any interest in my religious beliefs...other than my wife of 10 years.

Are you volunteering to share your beliefs with them or have you found some actually inquisitive about your beliefs?

If you started that with me, I would inform you I have not one ounce of interest in what you believe. Much as you don't care what I believe.

Been asked a few times and it extends to christian and no further. No understanding or grasp of Catholicism or anglicanism.

We have good Thai friends who are jehovas witnesses. Most thais think they are nutty as fruitcakes.

[Don Aleman]

About time someone showed the Muslims exactly how others feel about their murderous actions !

[uptheos]

Did anyone ever think their wouldn't be a backlash at some point?

As much as I disagree with it, I'm not at all surprised and once it has started I think it will roll.

[arjunadawn]

Agreed, but I still feel badly for the Muslims that just want live their lives peacefully and fit into Western society.

the problem is very few want to fit in to western society. They want us to fit in to sharia, the call to pray while annoying can be argued the same as Christian Church bells but my not being able to eat pork in front of them or buy it in my local Market because it is haram is bs, same with not allowed to buy alchohol, drinking or talking to a pretty woman. Where are the Jewish, Christian, Buddhist, or hindu prayer rooms in airports?

Wow... you don't know shit I presume...

95% of Muslims in France are completely "fitting in" in France, 4.9% don't try but stay in their apartments and are the older people and their kids brought to France in the 20's and 30's to build apartments that were given citizenship and parked in lousy apartments. the other part which represents less than 1% are stupid <deleted> claiming they are fighting in the name of Allah... exactly the same minority as the ones trowing stones and pig heads at Mosques...

I disagree Amir. Where are you getting your numbers from? Also where are you getting your definition of assimilation? Assimilation is the process of adapting or adjusting to the culture of a group or nation, or the state of being so adapted. Many Muslims migrate to other countries but never adapt religiously or fashionably. They set up their mosques and scream their religion for all to hear whether they want to or not. There is no ADAPTATION or TOLERANCE given by Muslims. Its their way or the highway. You can't go into someone else's country, not assimilate, and then retaliate when people don't adapt to Muslim culture or sharia law.

Advice;

When you go to another country you must tolerate and adapt as well. You must respect the countries way of life if you intend to settle there. Do the best you can and not fight the system or kill the people when they don't do as Muslims do.

The word is Hirjah, and this word, the injunction on behavior, spells out in detail the manner of living amongst non muslims. This doctrine is so central to Islam that it was actually created and mandated by no less than the prophet himself. Having been pretty much ran out of Mecca by his own tribe, the prophet Hirjah, or immigrated, to Medina. The same things they did to the people in Mecca that got them kicked out by their own tribe they now did to the people in Medina, but much more thoughtfully, with very skillful methods.

This is where the concept of the three levels of acting out the jihad developed- tolerance, defensive jihad, and finally offensive jihad. At first they just wished to be tolerated. No one objected. But then they began doing the same thing in Medina as Mecca, they started demanding accommodations and insulting the local gods- this insulting the local gods thing was the final straw for Meccans to chase him out. In Medina they feigned victim this time, insisting they were being persecuted where clearly they were demanding special protections. Early muslims in Medina were forbidden to mix with non muslims, have dealings with them and if forced they could feign friendship but only on limited terms to further islam.

The prophet bankrolled his new religion by sacking traders and plundering loot from caravans. As common criminals they did numerous of this robberies, but others noticed and also noted that the insular nature of muslims caring for muslims alone seemed attractive= the numbers grew. When they had sufficient numbers and no longer needed to protest defensively that they were being persecuted, they went on the offensive= offensive jihad, and aimed their ire at Mecca, where they sacked and destroyed and literally ran a river full of the blood of the beheaded, amongst other worthy acts to emulate.

These events established the mechanics for immigration. They are to remain insular, pray toward mecca, not take unbelievers as friends, consolidate power and arms and money, establish shar'ia, and then make shar'ia binding on the greater populace by special accommodations. There is absolutely nothing new that is happening. Modern current events read just like Buhkari and the early islamic writers. This practice of Hirjah jihad has been executed repeatedly for millennia. If one thinks the issue is this, or that, or failed integration, or poor assimilation policies, the entire substance is missed! They don't want to join you! They want you to join them!

This is not some arcane musing; this is the practice and mandate.