My new Saltwater pool in Surin

[Naam]

I don't do flip turns -- 1500 meters several times per week in 30 meter length salt water pool. BTW Endless Pool pumps cannot be used in salt water system pools.

There are certainly Swim jets (or whatever you want to call them) that can be used in salt water pools.

for the record: a pool who's water is chlorinated using NaCl ("Natrium Chloride" known as "salt", barbaric version "Sodium Chloride") and electrolysis is NOT a salt water pool no matter how often this rather ignorant expression is used by individuals, wikipedia or companies who sell these chlorinating systems

[JLCrab]

http://www.trs.co.th/index.php?name=product&id=6&catid=9

[IMHO]

I don't do flip turns -- 1500 meters several times per week in 30 meter length salt water pool. BTW Endless Pool pumps cannot be used in salt water system pools.

There are certainly Swim jets (or whatever you want to call them) that can be used in salt water pools.

for the record: a pool who's water is chlorinated using NaCl ("Natrium Chloride" known as "salt", barbaric version "Sodium Chloride") and electrolysis is NOT a salt water pool no matter how often this rather ignorant expression is used by individuals, wikipedia or companies who sell these chlorinating systems

Right - the only difference between a "salt water" pool, and one using traditional chlorination, is that your pumps and accessories need to be a little more corrosion resistant. I can't think of any that aren't though - e.g. there's no such thing as a pool pump that can't be used in a salt water pool anymore

[IMHO]

Thanks -- if I ever get around to buying one of those $US10-20,000 units, I will certainly check it out.

Err, nothing like that kind of money.

The Original Endless Pool Standard System starts at $22,900 and includes an 8'x15' free-standing pool (7' x 14' x 39" swim area), 5 hp swim current generator with anti-slip water return channels (sapphire or platinum), water quality system (cartridge filter, copper/silver poolside purifier, electric heater, push-button controller and circulating pump), floating thermal cover, dark blue liner, and aqua-aerobics exercise bar.

http://www.endlesspools.com/endless-pool-pricing.php?form=28052

No offence, but if that's the best vendor you can find, you're probably not going to do so well in the pool business

All it takes is the actual swim jet itself, 2x 3HP pumps and some plumbing/electrical. If using low-end pumps/jet, you could probably do it for 40K Baht - using high end equipment, maybe up to 80K Baht to include in any new pool.

Edited August 16, 2015 by IMHO

[JLCrab]

I'm not in the pool business -- I just read the brochure and for now I'm sticking with the 30 meter pool that I pay a reasonable annual fee and am often there by myself in the pool early in the morning.:

Can I use a Salt System with an Endless Pool?

While in theory, Saltwater Pools are a fine idea, there are several obstacles that keep this type of system from being the ideal solution for your Endless Pool. Saltwater Pool Systems still need chlorine to oxidize the pool contaminants, involve greater upfront and maintenance costs, and produce corrosion to pool equipment.

http://www.endlesspools.com/endless-pool-faq.php

... and however one might properly refer to such a pool, when I get some water in my mouth, it is salty.

Edited August 16, 2015 by JLCrab

[IMHO]

I'm not in the pool business -- I just read the brochure and for now I'm sticking with the 30 meter pool that I pay a reasonable annual fee and am often there by myself in the pool early in the morning.:

Can I use a Salt System with an Endless Pool?

While in theory, Saltwater Pools are a fine idea, there are several obstacles that keep this type of system from being the ideal solution for your Endless Pool. Saltwater Pool Systems still need chlorine to oxidize the pool contaminants, involve greater upfront and maintenance costs, and produce corrosion to pool equipment.

This is a vendor that sells you a complete mini pool kit that has only a swim jet, pump and a filter. It doesn't have the regular sanitation system of a "normal" pool. Being that a swim jet usually isn't turned on for 4-12 hours/day, every day, they're right - their kit is just not suitable for salt water chlorination.

Depending on pool volume, water flow rate, chlorinator size, and weather, a chlorinator needs to run (along with a pump) for 4-12 hours/day in order to keep the free chlorine levels at the right amount. You can't do that in a kit like you've linked, because it doesn't have a separate 'sanitation loop" (filter and pump) like a normal pool has.

When including a swim jet in your new, standard pool, you let the standard main pump and filter, and chlorinator/chlorine do the daily sanitation work - the swim jet only needs to pump water, not filter and sanitize it. Much simpler add-on, and much cheaper.

Edited August 16, 2015 by IMHO

[JLCrab]

This is all moot point for me -- I don't own a property and don't intend to own a property in Thailand. I am happy to go to the pool I now use. If I ever return to Florida, I would go to one of the springs to swim. This one has a current like an Endless Pool as it flows on average about 400 million liters per day.

[Naam]

Can I use a Salt System with an Endless Pool?

While in theory, Saltwater Pools are a fine idea, there are several obstacles that keep this type of system from being the ideal solution for your Endless Pool. Saltwater Pool Systems still need chlorine to oxidize the pool contaminants, involve greater upfront and maintenance costs, and produce corrosion to pool equipment.

a typical misleading statement and that from a vendor. correct would have been:

still need additional chlorine to oxidize a potential built-up of pool contaminants

because it is rather difficult to shock pool water 8-10ppm (usually done 3-4 times a year) with a chlorination system that uses salt and electrolysis.

Edited August 17, 2015 by Naam

[Naam]

Right - the only difference between a "salt water" pool, and one using traditional chlorination, is that your pumps and accessories need to be a little more corrosion resistant. I can't think of any that aren't though - e.g. there's no such thing as a pool pump that can't be used in a salt water pool anymore

because the chlorine or any other oxidising chemicals are multiple times more corrosive than the pool water's noticeable salt content which is usually caused by an overkill of chlorination "to be on the safe side."

the problem with any pool is that development of contaminants and dilution of oxidising agents vary a lot (e.g. sun, rain, number of persons using the pool, the occasional alligator or crocodile...).

[JLCrab]

From the same vendor: FOR OVER 25 YEARS, ENDLESS POOLS has sold more than 20,000 pools to people of all ages and athletic abilities, from octogenarians to Olympians, for swimming, exercise, therapy and fun. http://www.endlesspools.com/about-us.php

I'll take the vendor's opinion, thank you.

[IMHO]

From the same vendor: FOR OVER 25 YEARS, ENDLESS POOLS has sold more than 20,000 pools to people of all ages and athletic abilities, from octogenarians to Olympians, for swimming, exercise, therapy and fun. http://www.endlesspools.com/about-us.php

I'll take the vendor's opinion, thank you.

All I did was counter your claim that it wasn't possible to use a swim jet in a salt water pool. That's nonsense - of course you can. You just can't do so in *their* pool which doesn't feature a normal sanitation system - it's sanitation only works when the swim jet works... In a normal pool, the sanitation system is completely independent of the swim jet pump, jets and plumbing.. so no issues using salt water at all.

I tried to explain this already - obviously not very well though

[JLCrab]

Thanks -- I only hope that since the OP bought the pool from himself that he gave himself a good deal.

[Anthony5]

Can I use a Salt System with an Endless Pool?

While in theory, Saltwater Pools are a fine idea, there are several obstacles that keep this type of system from being the ideal solution for your Endless Pool. Saltwater Pool Systems still need chlorine to oxidize the pool contaminants, involve greater upfront and maintenance costs, and produce corrosion to pool equipment.

a typical misleading statement and that from a vendor. correct would have been:

still need additional chlorine to oxidize a potential built-up of pool contaminants

because it is rather difficult to shock pool water 8-10ppm (usually done 3-4 times a year) with a chlorination system that uses salt and electrolysis.

And why should a pool be shocked 3-4 times a year.

I must have missed something because I have shocked my pool with SWG only 1 time in 5 years, and the water balance is just perfect now.

The one single time I needed to shock it was because there was an issue with the SWG settings and it had gathered black algae due to low chlorine level.

Of course if you don't keep the water balance up to level you'll need to shock it every so often.

[Naam]

And why should a pool be shocked 3-4 times a year.

I must have missed something because I have shocked my pool with SWG only 1 time in 5 years, and the water balance is just perfect now.

The one single time I needed to shock it was because there was an issue with the SWG settings and it had gathered black algae due to low chlorine level.

Of course if you don't keep the water balance up to level you'll need to shock it every so often.

what you have missed is that shocking the pool has nothing to do with any chemical water balance or preventing/getting rid of visible contaminants such as algae. your "balance" in this respect may be perfect but does not affect the potential built-up of bacteria which are immune to normal chlorination.

[Naam]

From the same vendor: FOR OVER 25 YEARS, ENDLESS POOLS has sold more than 20,000 pools to people of all ages and athletic abilities, from octogenarians to Olympians, for swimming, exercise, therapy and fun. http://www.endlesspools.com/about-us.php

I'll take the vendor's opinion, thank you.

i always question not only a vendor's but also a manufacturer's opinion because both their marketing chaps are well known to present bullshit. thank you

[SantiSuk]

I don't do flip turns -- 1500 meters several times per week in 30 meter length salt water pool. BTW Endless Pool pumps cannot be used in salt water system pools.

There are certainly Swim jets (or whatever you want to call them) that can be used in salt water pools.

for the record: a pool who's water is chlorinated using NaCl ("Natrium Chloride" known as "salt", barbaric version "Sodium Chloride") and electrolysis is NOT a salt water pool no matter how often this rather ignorant expression is used by individuals, wikipedia or companies who sell these chlorinating systems

Triumph of pedantry, Naam?

For me if your pool has water and salt in it you can call it a salt water pool if you like. I realise that some old fashioned sea-side resorts might have pools that have water and salt in them (ie sea-water) but no chlorination system and might more literally be called salt water pools, but hey who's got one of those in their back garden?

Am I missing something?

You are of course correct and not pedantic old-boy* when you pick up on posters who say that "my pool is sanitised by salt - I don't use chlorine in my pool" as I've seen you do on many occasions

*term of endearment by the English faux upper-class (for a revered poster with attitude). I have no idea how young or old you are!

[JLCrab]

From the same vendor: FOR OVER 25 YEARS, ENDLESS POOLS has sold more than 20,000 pools to people of all ages and athletic abilities, from octogenarians to Olympians, for swimming, exercise, therapy and fun. http://www.endlesspools.com/about-us.php

I'll take the vendor's opinion, thank you.

i always question not only a vendor's but also a manufacturer's opinion because both their marketing chaps are well known to present bullshit. thank you

You can question all you want as would be your right as a potential customer. But after about 20,000+ installations of their equipment, one can generally tell what is BS and what is not.

[Naam]

From the same vendor: FOR OVER 25 YEARS, ENDLESS POOLS has sold more than 20,000 pools to people of all ages and athletic abilities, from octogenarians to Olympians, for swimming, exercise, therapy and fun. http://www.endlesspools.com/about-us.php

I'll take the vendor's opinion, thank you.

i always question not only a vendor's but also a manufacturer's opinion because both their marketing chaps are well known to present bullshit. thank you

You can question all you want as would be your right as a potential customer. But after about 20,000+ installations of their equipment, one can generally tell what is BS and what is not.

after millions of produced aircon units all manufacturers are presenting the same blatant marketing lies as they did 45 years ago when i was an insider working in research & development in Japan and the U.S.

the same applies to car manufacturers and a zillion other products. of course you can believe all you want. that's your prerogative.

[Naam]

I don't do flip turns -- 1500 meters several times per week in 30 meter length salt water pool. BTW Endless Pool pumps cannot be used in salt water system pools.

There are certainly Swim jets (or whatever you want to call them) that can be used in salt water pools.

for the record: a pool who's water is chlorinated using NaCl ("Natrium Chloride" known as "salt", barbaric version "Sodium Chloride") and electrolysis is NOT a salt water pool no matter how often this rather ignorant expression is used by individuals, wikipedia or companies who sell these chlorinating systems

Triumph of pedantry, Naam?

For me if your pool has water and salt in it you can call it a salt water pool if you like. I realise that some old fashioned sea-side resorts might have pools that have water and salt in them (ie sea-water) but no chlorination system and might more literally be called salt water pools, but hey who's got one of those in their back garden?

Am I missing something?

You are of course correct and not pedantic old-boy* when you pick up on posters who say that "my pool is sanitised by salt - I don't use chlorine in my pool" as I've seen you do on many occasions

*term of endearment by the English faux upper-class (for a revered poster with attitude). I have no idea how young or old you are!

i am going to put some pepper in my pool and then call it a pepper water pool sanitised by UV and a wee bit of chlorine (0.25-0.50ppm)

by the way, the expression "old boy" is correct and acceptable

[JLCrab]

I don't have to believe. I'm not buying anything of substance except a new laptop each year I go back to USA. My 100 cc Honda was old when I bought it that was almost 10 years ago. I rent a house with 2 air conditioners -- both work fine. I paid to have them serviced before Songkran. The maintenance of my 30 meter salt water pool is someone else's problem though I see they often have about 100 50 kg sacks of pool salt on hand.

As long as the Boeing engineers haven't lied too much about the 777 I'll be taking over the Pacific next year, I'll be happy. Other than that, the world really sucks, doesn't it?

Edited August 17, 2015 by JLCrab

[sappersrest]

And why should a pool be shocked 3-4 times a year.

I must have missed something because I have shocked my pool with SWG only 1 time in 5 years, and the water balance is just perfect now.

The one single time I needed to shock it was because there was an issue with the SWG settings and it had gathered black algae due to low chlorine level.

Of course if you don't keep the water balance up to level you'll need to shock it every so often.

what you have missed is that shocking the pool has nothing to do with any chemical water balance or preventing/getting rid of visible contaminants such as algae. your "balance" in this respect may be perfect but does not affect the potential built-up of bacteria which are immune to normal chlorination.

The term balanced water is a much misused term in the pool water industry .The method of disinfection is not included in the formula to determine if the water is in balance.

The Palintest Water Balance Index is a simplified version of the Langelier Saturation Index and created with the aim of making it applicable and easy for use in swimming pools.

The Langelier Saturation Index was developed to describe the relationship between the factors in water that affect the solubility of calcium carbonate: pH, alkalinity, calcium hardness, temperature and Total Dissolved Solids (TDS). It helps to assess if the combination of these factors is optimal or can cause corrosion and scaling in swimming pools and other applications.

[IMHO]

The maintenance of my 30 meter salt water pool is someone else's problem though I see they often have about 100 50 kg sacks of pool salt on hand.

Pool salt sacks are only 25KG, and the reason you see so many is just because there's a minimum order quantity of 100 to get wholesale prices - even in a 30M pool, that's going to be a few years supply.

Anyways, you didn't want to know this I guess. Just like you didn't want to know why one swim jet pool vendor says their sanitation system isn't suitable for salt water chlorinators

Edited August 17, 2015 by IMHO

[JLCrab]

The maintenance of my 30 meter salt water pool is someone else's problem though I see they often have about 100 50 kg sacks of pool salt on hand.

Pool salt sacks are only 25KG, and the reason you see so many is just because there's a minimum order quantity of 100 to get wholesale prices - even in a 30M pool, that's going to be a few years supply.

Anyways, you didn't want to know this I guess. Just like you didn't want to know why one swim jet pool vendor says their sanitation system isn't suitable for salt water chlorinators

Thank you. I see the supply dwindle at a far greater rate than that. I'm not buying any pool no matter how chlorinated. I was there this AM did my 50 laps x 30 m with no one else in the pool.

Edited August 17, 2015 by JLCrab

[kamalabob2]

I've bought salt for my Buriram province swimming pool from JD Pools in Bangkok. Pablo Escobar would be jealous of that mark up. I have bought larger quantities of TRS swimming pool salt in person at the TRS salt facility outside of Pimai. But the last time I bought swimming pool salt I could buy as many or as few 25 kilo sacks of TRS swimming pool salt as I desired, from the Buriram Builders Merchants located across from the Buriram Provincial Electricity Authority. That shop also does free delivery on minimum orders or a modest fee on delivery for smaller orders in many parts of Buriram Province, some parts of Surin province and a few locations in Maha Sarakham Province. I paid 139 baht for 25 kilos. It might be less money in Pimai, but I do not make it that direction often enough. Same store as I buy Zelbrite swimming pool filter media in 15 kilo bags.

[Naam]

And why should a pool be shocked 3-4 times a year.

I must have missed something because I have shocked my pool with SWG only 1 time in 5 years, and the water balance is just perfect now.

The one single time I needed to shock it was because there was an issue with the SWG settings and it had gathered black algae due to low chlorine level.

Of course if you don't keep the water balance up to level you'll need to shock it every so often.

what you have missed is that shocking the pool has nothing to do with any chemical water balance or preventing/getting rid of visible contaminants such as algae. your "balance" in this respect may be perfect but does not affect the potential built-up of bacteria which are immune to normal chlorination.

The term balanced water is a much misused term in the pool water industry .The method of disinfection is not included in the formula to determine if the water is in balance.

The Palintest Water Balance Index is a simplified version of the Langelier Saturation Index and created with the aim of making it applicable and easy for use in swimming pools.

The Langelier Saturation Index was developed to describe the relationship between the factors in water that affect the solubility of calcium carbonate: pH, alkalinity, calcium hardness, temperature and Total Dissolved Solids (TDS). It helps to assess if the combination of these factors is optimal or can cause corrosion and scaling in swimming pools and other applications.

that's what i said

[Naam]

I don't have to believe. I'm not buying anything of substance except a new laptop each year I go back to USA. My 100 cc Honda was old when I bought it that was almost 10 years ago. I rent a house with 2 air conditioners -- both work fine. I paid to have them serviced before Songkran. The maintenance of my 30 meter salt water pool is someone else's problem though I see they often have about 100 50 kg sacks of pool salt on hand.

As long as the Boeing engineers haven't lied too much about the 777 I'll be taking over the Pacific next year, I'll be happy. Other than that, the world really sucks, doesn't it?

disappeared Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 was a 777

[JLCrab]

I don't have to believe. I'm not buying anything of substance except a new laptop each year I go back to USA. My 100 cc Honda was old when I bought it that was almost 10 years ago. I rent a house with 2 air conditioners -- both work fine. I paid to have them serviced before Songkran. The maintenance of my 30 meter salt water pool is someone else's problem though I see they often have about 100 50 kg sacks of pool salt on hand.

As long as the Boeing engineers haven't lied too much about the 777 I'll be taking over the Pacific next year, I'll be happy. Other than that, the world really sucks, doesn't it?

disappeared Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 was a 777

So was the one shot down by a SAM missile over Ukraine but I don't see most likely that was because Boeing's Marketing people are bullsh-t artists.

No one as yet can say the MH370 crash was the result of a wacko Malaysian pilot but the Germanwings 9525 Flight certainly was the result of a wacko German pilot.

Edited August 17, 2015 by JLCrab

[Anthony5]

And why should a pool be shocked 3-4 times a year.

I must have missed something because I have shocked my pool with SWG only 1 time in 5 years, and the water balance is just perfect now.

The one single time I needed to shock it was because there was an issue with the SWG settings and it had gathered black algae due to low chlorine level.

Of course if you don't keep the water balance up to level you'll need to shock it every so often.

what you have missed is that shocking the pool has nothing to do with any chemical water balance or preventing/getting rid of visible contaminants such as algae. your "balance" in this respect may be perfect but does not affect the potential built-up of bacteria which are immune to normal chlorination.

You mean bacteria that are resistant to 3ppm free chlorine, in a well balanced pool?

You often make things up as you go?

[IMHO]

And why should a pool be shocked 3-4 times a year.

I must have missed something because I have shocked my pool with SWG only 1 time in 5 years, and the water balance is just perfect now.

The one single time I needed to shock it was because there was an issue with the SWG settings and it had gathered black algae due to low chlorine level.

Of course if you don't keep the water balance up to level you'll need to shock it every so often.

what you have missed is that shocking the pool has nothing to do with any chemical water balance or preventing/getting rid of visible contaminants such as algae. your "balance" in this respect may be perfect but does not affect the potential built-up of bacteria which are immune to normal chlorination.

You mean bacteria that are resistant to 3ppm free chlorine, in a well balanced pool?

You often make things up as you go?

I know you've already found this before, just adding to the conversation...

Talking about free chlorine levels without also talking about CYA levels is pointless. 3PPM chlorine could be more than enough to kill any bacteria, or it could be woefully inadequate.

http://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/2177-Chlorine-CYA-Chart

In the past, I have said here on these forums that I've never shocked my pool. I was wrong... I actually do it quite regularly, I just didn't know that's what I was doing

I intentionally keep my CYA levels very low - too low to even register a color change on the Aquachek strips (i.e. not zero, but well under 30PPM). Whenever I've had a big swimmer load (parties etc), I run my chlorinator at 100% overnight, which runs FC up to around 10PPM. I now know that's 'shocking' it (before I found that chart above, I had the idea that a 'shock' was more like 20+ PPM). The great thing about that is, to bring it back down to ~3PPM, all I need to do is leave the chlorinator off in a few hours of sunlight

Edited August 17, 2015 by IMHO

[Naam]

IMHO

Whenever I've had a big swimmer load (parties etc), I run my chlorinator at 100% overnight, which runs FC up to around 10PPM. I now know that's 'shocking' it (before I found that chart above, I had the idea that a 'shock' was more like 20+ PPM). The great thing about that is, to bring it back down to ~3PPM, all I need to do is leave the chlorinator off in a few hours of sunlight

something does not fit. there's no way that free chlorine drops from 10 to 3ppm in just a few hours due to sun radiation except... if your pool's depth at the deep end is 20cm and at the shallow end 5cm