US will send 400 troops to train moderate Syrian opposition

[webfact]

US will send 400 troops to train moderate Syrian opposition
The Associated Press

WASHINGTON (AP) — The United States will send 400 troops to train moderate Syrian rebels this spring.

Pentagon spokesman Maj. James Brindle confirmed the planned deployment early Friday morning. The U.S. plan was first reported by Defense One Thursday.

Last month, President Barack Obama signed into law a massive defense policy bill that endorsed his plan to fight Islamic State militants, including air strikes and training Iraqis and moderate Syrian rebels.

The law authorized the training and equipping of moderate Syrian rebels battling the extremists for two years, and provided $5 billion to train Iraqis battling the militants who brutally rule large sections of the two countries.


-- (c) Associated Press 2015-01-16

[Suradit69]

The west has a great track record in choosing who to cozy up to in the Middle East

Edited January 16, 2015 by Suradit69

[IAMHERE]

Another bottomless pit to throw tax payers money into. For once leave some situation alone, we can deal with the outcome later when somebody is in charge. Only reason to send troops is so that some Americans can die and give a reason to invade with more troops.

[Ulysses G.]

The west has a great track record in choosing who to cozy up to in the Middle East

It's not like there are a lot of "good" choices.

[umbanda]

Was coming.....another stupidity of the US Government and of a President that was againts war....loooong time ago....

Moderate oppostion?..... like supporting Bin Laden fighting the Russians before he becomes its Enemy # 1?

But this time...it is also and attack to Iran and Russian interest...Will see...

[Mosha]

What could possibly go wrong?

[willyumiii]

Military Advisors huh?

Isn't that how the U.S. occupation of South Vietnam started out?

I thought we were suppose to learn from history...and mistakes!

Following a meeting between President John F. Kennedy and South Vietnam envoy Nguyen Dinh Thuan, an agreement is reached for direct training and combat supervision of Vietnamese troops by U.S. instructors. South Vietnamese President Ngo Dinh Diem had earlier asked Kennedy to send additional U.S. troops to train the South Vietnamese Army. U.S. advisers had been serving in Vietnam since 1955 as part of the U.S. Military Assistance Advisory Group. There would be only 900 U.S. military personnel in South Vietnam at the end of 1961, but in accordance with President Kennedy's pledge to provide American military assistance to South Vietnam, the number of U.S. personnel rose to 3,200 by the end of 1962. The number would climb until it reached 16,000 by the time of President Kennedy's assassination in November 1963.

Edited January 16, 2015 by willyumiii

[Steely Dan]

The moderate Syrian opposition are something akin to dark matter. The experts seem to be convinced they do exist, but we are still yet to find them.

[ggt]

This too...will likely end badly...like all the other efforts where the US is involved in ME affairs...

These same trained soldiers might very well be shooting Americans and allies once trained...this is the ME...

[boomerangutang]

Today "moderate Syrian rebels" , tomorrow, they'll be on 'the enemies list,' but using American weapons against Americans.

While we're at it, let's get them up to snuff with drones, then they can also be using them against us in a few months/years. .....and the latest anti-tank and SAMs, .....the list goes on.

No, the M.E. is a nest of hornets. No amount of interference by westerners is going to amount to a hill of beans of difference. I take that back, perhaps some precision bombing of people like ISIS (enemy of the month) slows down the raghead militias a bit. To be born in the M.E. is a drag. To be born female, there, is 10x worse. Too bad they can't yank their cultish belief system out of the 14th century. Heck, they might even try planting some trees ....naw, easier and more fun to just grab weapons and go searching for infidels to kill.

[arjunadawn]

The west has a great track record in choosing who to cozy up to in the Middle East

Great post; thanks.

[arjunadawn]

The moderate Syrian opposition are something akin to dark matter. The experts seem to be convinced they do exist, but we are still yet to find them.

Funny. Some comedy is appreciated once in a while, even dark. All the previous posts have one thing in common- we tend to think this is a bad idea, and most seem to think this is a new idea. I will share something with you: The US has been training "moderate" jihadis from Syria at the King Abdullah Training Center outside of Amman. This facility teaches sniper, close quarter combat, house clearing, command and control, integration of forces, basic skills like mortar, small arms, call for fire, and direct action door kicking. I believe most of the instructors were former military, contractors. I know because I know the men. Nearly all of these trained "moderates" pledged allegiance or truce with al nursa/IS sometime after. (In defense of the center, they do train allied Jordanian Special Forces primarily. Few know King Abdullah was Special Forces and US special forces trained. A friend of mine used to HALO jump with him personally in training).

The same thing happened in Iraq at Camp Dublin. Soldiers were trained to execute high value missions under the ERT program, Emergency Response Teams. A great many of these "soldiers" immediately turned over into the al mahdi army. Will we ever learn?

All this latest fiasco does it take the same absurdity out of Jordan and officially place military special forces into the mix, like the guy above who noted the slippery slope of Vietnam- great analogy, and it applies. This is an intentional escalation. Anyone with the remotest knowledge of this region knows there are no moderates, this is an invention of for western consumption. "Moderates" would have zero legitimacy in the sunni world. This is also a very good example of islamic Taqiyya- deceit.

[tw25rw]

Even if the good guys are on the winning side against Assad, they won't get to assume power. The fight will still have a long way to go. Might be better for them if they negotiate some kind of compromise with Assad before they get wiped out.

[Bakeman]

_{As a U.S. citizen I say stay home and fix our borders and other issues first. Then when others start to cry about the U.S. not helping we will remind them that we weren't wanted.}

[konying]

Good to see US is not hypocritical at all, otherwise one might start to wonder why US would have a problem with Russia supporting its people in Ukraine.

[simple1]

The moderate Syrian opposition are something akin to dark matter. The experts seem to be convinced they do exist, but we are still yet to find them.

Funny. Some comedy is appreciated once in a while, even dark. All the previous posts have one thing in common- we tend to think this is a bad idea, and most seem to think this is a new idea. I will share something with you: The US has been training "moderate" jihadis from Syria at the King Abdullah Training Center outside of Amman. This facility teaches sniper, close quarter combat, house clearing, command and control, integration of forces, basic skills like mortar, small arms, call for fire, and direct action door kicking. I believe most of the instructors were former military, contractors. I know because I know the men. Nearly all of these trained "moderates" pledged allegiance or truce with al nursa/IS sometime after. (In defense of the center, they do train allied Jordanian Special Forces primarily. Few know King Abdullah was Special Forces and US special forces trained. A friend of mine used to HALO jump with him personally in training).

The same thing happened in Iraq at Camp Dublin. Soldiers were trained to execute high value missions under the ERT program, Emergency Response Teams. A great many of these "soldiers" immediately turned over into the al mahdi army. Will we ever learn?

All this latest fiasco does it take the same absurdity out of Jordan and officially place military special forces into the mix, like the guy above who noted the slippery slope of Vietnam- great analogy, and it applies. This is an intentional escalation. Anyone with the remotest knowledge of this region knows there are no moderates, this is an invention of for western consumption. "Moderates" would have zero legitimacy in the sunni world. This is also a very good example of islamic Taqiyya- deceit.

The following URL provides much better info on the intent and timing for the training program that complements existing training facilities in places such as Jordan and Iraq. Note it claims it is expected those approved for training will likely take up to a year to be ready for deployment. As usual there is not any commentary on who is expected to govern re-captured territory nor the long term plan for Assad’s regime.

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/01/16/us/syria-rebel-training/

I have to admit I get somewhat confused with the thrust of your posts. You seem to make it clear in your opinion US attempts to achieve regional balance of power with various Islamic extremist groups has been a strategic error. It’s very easy to critic, correct me if I’m wrong, yet given your background, you do not appear to present any solutions.

Edited January 16, 2015 by simple1

[umbanda]

Reminder of the US " War in Terror "

https://rickrozoff.wordpress.com/2010/02/15/afghanistan-charlie-wilson-and-americas-30-year-war/

[Scott]

Off-topic post removed.

[rickirs]

Was coming.....another stupidity of the US Government and of a President that was againts war....loooong time ago....

Moderate oppostion?..... like supporting Bin Laden fighting the Russians before he becomes its Enemy # 1?

But this time...it is also and attack to Iran and Russian interest...Will see...

The USA did not support Bin Laden to fight the Russians. The USA, Pakistan, China, UK, and Saudi Arabia supported the native Afghan insurgent group “Peshawar Seven.” Bin Laden was not Afghan and as a foreign fighter belonged to the "Afghan Arab" group that had no affiliation with the Peshawar Seven. Bin Laden had no leadership role- he was a foot soldier.

[willyumiii]

If you want to waste time and money on training people in the Middle East.....why not try Anger Management Training? lol

[morrobay]

The US just cannot stop screwing things up over there: Invading Iraq after 9/11 would be like invading Finland after Pearl Harbor. I stiil cannot understand how that idiot Bush was able to fly an airplane. In the cases of Iraq and Libya removing the strongman and dismantling the governments led to ISIS and Benghazi.

On the topic: If the US , Iran, and Assad's Syria joined forces ISIS could be destroyed.

Edited January 17, 2015 by morrobay

[yellowpostitnotes]

What are the American's thinking? Why do you guys always want to get involved?

[boomerangutang]

If my country (the US) wants a righteous int'l cause, let's go and liberate Tibet.

[umbanda]

Was coming.....another stupidity of the US Government and of a President that was againts war....loooong time ago....

Moderate oppostion?..... like supporting Bin Laden fighting the Russians before he becomes its Enemy # 1?

But this time...it is also and attack to Iran and Russian interest...Will see...

The USA did not support Bin Laden to fight the Russians. The USA, Pakistan, China, UK, and Saudi Arabia supported the native Afghan insurgent group “Peshawar Seven.” Bin Laden was not Afghan and as a foreign fighter belonged to the "Afghan Arab" group that had no affiliation with the Peshawar Seven. Bin Laden had no leadership role- he was a foot soldier.

Sure. Look at this...if you really are interested in know the truth.

https://rickrozoff.w...as-30-year-war/

Edited January 17, 2015 by umbanda

[arjunadawn]

The moderate Syrian opposition are something akin to dark matter. The experts seem to be convinced they do exist, but we are still yet to find them.

Funny. Some comedy is appreciated once in a while, even dark. All the previous posts have one thing in common- we tend to think this is a bad idea, and most seem to think this is a new idea. I will share something with you: The US has been training "moderate" jihadis from Syria at the King Abdullah Training Center outside of Amman. This facility teaches sniper, close quarter combat, house clearing, command and control, integration of forces, basic skills like mortar, small arms, call for fire, and direct action door kicking. I believe most of the instructors were former military, contractors. I know because I know the men. Nearly all of these trained "moderates" pledged allegiance or truce with al nursa/IS sometime after. (In defense of the center, they do train allied Jordanian Special Forces primarily. Few know King Abdullah was Special Forces and US special forces trained. A friend of mine used to HALO jump with him personally in training).

The same thing happened in Iraq at Camp Dublin. Soldiers were trained to execute high value missions under the ERT program, Emergency Response Teams. A great many of these "soldiers" immediately turned over into the al mahdi army. Will we ever learn?

All this latest fiasco does it take the same absurdity out of Jordan and officially place military special forces into the mix, like the guy above who noted the slippery slope of Vietnam- great analogy, and it applies. This is an intentional escalation. Anyone with the remotest knowledge of this region knows there are no moderates, this is an invention of for western consumption. "Moderates" would have zero legitimacy in the sunni world. This is also a very good example of islamic Taqiyya- deceit.

The following URL provides much better info on the intent and timing for the training program that complements existing training facilities in places such as Jordan and Iraq. Note it claims it is expected those approved for training will likely take up to a year to be ready for deployment. As usual there is not any commentary on who is expected to govern re-captured territory nor the long term plan for Assad’s regime.

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/01/16/us/syria-rebel-training/

I have to admit I get somewhat confused with the thrust of your posts. You seem to make it clear in your opinion US attempts to achieve regional balance of power with various Islamic extremist groups has been a strategic error. It’s very easy to critic, correct me if I’m wrong, yet given your background, you do not appear to present any solutions.

Yes, I was called on this yesterday, much less politely than you have. Why do I offer facts and opinions but shy away from solutions? Fair. I answered this but will do again more simply.

First, it is a strategic error to seek any balance of power in the region using any islamic extremists groups. You may think you are sharing a path for mutual benefit, but most certainly they are not going to the same place the West is going. A cursory review of relevant, core, islamic doctrine reveals its a fool's errand to seek to employ islamic jihadists in the cause of the west; in alliances. Islam has a highly evolved blueprint for when, how, if to enter into treaties and alliances and all the mechanics of abusing them, manipulating, and exiting the alliance when the notion suits the islamist. They may join you, take training and money, but they will never serve you. The central islamic concept of taqiyya allows just this. I am uncertain you could even call this a strategic error without first defining a Western strategy- there is none declared. By the West's own admission, repeatedly, there is no strategic policy; only local, reactionary efforts. Ostensibly, a plan called Which Path to Persia outlines a possible blueprint, but if so, the West has screwed this up as well. Herein the effort is to cripple the shia with insurgency all around it. The blowback is already legendary. http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/research/files/papers/2009/6/iran%20strategy/06_iran_strategy.pdf

Second, it may be easy for others to critique this or that, it is not easy for me. The complexities, overlapping alliances, tribal allegiances, and shifting sides make this a terribly complex mess. From the Israeli/Palestinian problem to the strongmen holding jihadists in check, from impairing Iranian hegemony, to ousting Assad without confronting Russia, from Turkish cleansing of Kurds, to Turkish help sought to help Kurds---- nothing in this region is easy to critique. But some things remain true- The West is unleashing forces for regional ends without likewise adjusting policies at home which then enable these forces to seamlessly wed the battlefield with Antwerp, London, New York, or Paris. There is no "strategy." It is not easy to critique but there are a series of valid observations and historical facts that can enlighten the morass.

I don't offer solutions because I am waiting for others to offer the solutions I think are required; its that simple, and that evasive. My comments have no less validity because some standard- "I don't offer solutions" is not being met. In a very short amount of time previously unlikely solutions will quickly appear to be the only solutions. It is not my place to offer these here. I can do nothing useful by musing here.

Edit: I watched the link; this only legitimizes training that has already been ongoing with contractors and allies. This legitimizes, retrospectively, the assinine arms transfers from Libya, to caucauses, the Turkey, to al Nursa. This policy now openly invites uniformed Special Forces and others to train an impossibly weak and unmotivated minority force (if one can be cobbled together) to tackle both Assad, while what? marginalizing or managing the combined rebel threat on the battlefield? No, this will not work. This is a quagmire. (Reminds me of the movie Wag The Dog).

Edited January 17, 2015 by arjunadawn

[boomerangutang]

How long before we see/hear news reports of one or more men 'we thought were moderate' turning their guns on the outsiders? It's happened in every conflict in the M.East (and there have been an ongoing streak of 'em), and it even happened in Texas, with a Jihadist (who looked like a fellow soldier) went beserk and shot nearby soldiers. If there's a nest of hornets in your backyard, you don't unleash some honeybees nearby, to pacify them.

[Suradit69]

The west has a great track record in choosing who to cozy up to in the Middle East

It's not like there are a lot of "good" choices.

And that can also be said of large parts of South & Central America, Eastern Europe, Africa and Asia too. Unfortunately too many leaders who are propped up (and provided military support ) by western powers to further the agenda du jour, end up being bigger problems than the one "we" thought they would help us to solve in the first place.

Edited January 17, 2015 by Suradit69

[NeverSure]

Obama was elected partly because people were tired of war. Obama has been just as bad if not worse than his predecessors. He greatly expanded the war in Afghanistan, led the charge to knock out Gaddafi in Libya, and has launched attacks all over the ME.

It's interesting to note who he attacks and who he supports in the ME. Muslims are forever fighting each other, splitting into various sects.

Wouldn't it be interesting if a Muslim was Commander in Chief of the United States of America military?

[simple1]

The moderate Syrian opposition are something akin to dark matter. The experts seem to be convinced they do exist, but we are still yet to find them.

Funny. Some comedy is appreciated once in a while, even dark. All the previous posts have one thing in common- we tend to think this is a bad idea, and most seem to think this is a new idea. I will share something with you: The US has been training "moderate" jihadis from Syria at the King Abdullah Training Center outside of Amman. This facility teaches sniper, close quarter combat, house clearing, command and control, integration of forces, basic skills like mortar, small arms, call for fire, and direct action door kicking. I believe most of the instructors were former military, contractors. I know because I know the men. Nearly all of these trained "moderates" pledged allegiance or truce with al nursa/IS sometime after. (In defense of the center, they do train allied Jordanian Special Forces primarily. Few know King Abdullah was Special Forces and US special forces trained. A friend of mine used to HALO jump with him personally in training).

The same thing happened in Iraq at Camp Dublin. Soldiers were trained to execute high value missions under the ERT program, Emergency Response Teams. A great many of these "soldiers" immediately turned over into the al mahdi army. Will we ever learn?

All this latest fiasco does it take the same absurdity out of Jordan and officially place military special forces into the mix, like the guy above who noted the slippery slope of Vietnam- great analogy, and it applies. This is an intentional escalation. Anyone with the remotest knowledge of this region knows there are no moderates, this is an invention of for western consumption. "Moderates" would have zero legitimacy in the sunni world. This is also a very good example of islamic Taqiyya- deceit.

The following URL provides much better info on the intent and timing for the training program that complements existing training facilities in places such as Jordan and Iraq. Note it claims it is expected those approved for training will likely take up to a year to be ready for deployment. As usual there is not any commentary on who is expected to govern re-captured territory nor the long term plan for Assad’s regime.

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/01/16/us/syria-rebel-training/

I have to admit I get somewhat confused with the thrust of your posts. You seem to make it clear in your opinion US attempts to achieve regional balance of power with various Islamic extremist groups has been a strategic error. It’s very easy to critic, correct me if I’m wrong, yet given your background, you do not appear to present any solutions.

Yes, I was called on this yesterday, much less politely than you have. Why do I offer facts and opinions but shy away from solutions? Fair. I answered this but will do again more simply.

First, it is a strategic error to seek any balance of power in the region using any islamic extremists groups. You may think you are sharing a path for mutual benefit, but most certainly they are not going to the same place the West is going. A cursory review of relevant, core, islamic doctrine reveals its a fool's errand to seek to employ islamic jihadists in the cause of the west; in alliances. Islam has a highly evolved blueprint for when, how, if to enter into treaties and alliances and all the mechanics of abusing them, manipulating, and exiting the alliance when the notion suits the islamist. They may join you, take training and money, but they will never serve you. The central islamic concept of taqiyya allows just this. I am uncertain you could even call this a strategic error without first defining a Western strategy- there is none declared. By the West's own admission, repeatedly, there is no strategic policy; only local, reactionary efforts. Ostensibly, a plan called Which Path to Persia outlines a possible blueprint, but if so, the West has screwed this up as well. Herein the effort is to cripple the shia with insurgency all around it. The blowback is already legendary. http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/research/files/papers/2009/6/iran%20strategy/06_iran_strategy.pdf

Second, it may be easy for others to critique this or that, it is not easy for me. The complexities, overlapping alliances, tribal allegiances, and shifting sides make this a terribly complex mess. From the Israeli/Palestinian problem to the strongmen holding jihadists in check, from impairing Iranian hegemony, to ousting Assad without confronting Russia, from Turkish cleansing of Kurds, to Turkish help sought to help Kurds---- nothing in this region is easy to critique. But some things remain true- The West is unleashing forces for regional ends without likewise adjusting policies at home which then enable these forces to seamlessly wed the battlefield with Antwerp, London, New York, or Paris. There is no "strategy." It is not easy to critique but there are a series of valid observations and historical facts that can enlighten the morass.

I don't offer solutions because I am waiting for others to offer the solutions I think are required; its that simple, and that evasive. My comments have no less validity because some standard- "I don't offer solutions" is not being met. In a very short amount of time previously unlikely solutions will quickly appear to be the only solutions. It is not my place to offer these here. I can do nothing useful by musing here.

Edit: I watched the link; this only legitimizes training that has already been ongoing with contractors and allies. This legitimizes, retrospectively, the assinine arms transfers from Libya, to caucauses, the Turkey, to al Nursa. This policy now openly invites uniformed Special Forces and others to train an impossibly weak and unmotivated minority force (if one can be cobbled together) to tackle both Assad, while what? marginalizing or managing the combined rebel threat on the battlefield? No, this will not work. This is a quagmire. (Reminds me of the movie Wag The Dog).

Agree with a number of points you raise. As you rightly highlight issues are so complex and interwined. Very challenging to seperate the trees from the woods to put in-place co-ordinated policy objectives. Have to say I am dismayed by the number of posters who heavily critique every move by Western leaders without any reasonable alternate view or put up, in my opinion, extreme right wing 'solutions'.

On the issue of Taqiyya, surely Western policy / decision makers are professionally briefed by subject matter experts on Islamic ideology / philosophy and plan accordingly. Is not Taqiyya no different to dissimulation that Western thinking is well versed in for national security matters?

[Morch]

Obama was elected partly because people were tired of war. Obama has been just as bad if not worse than his predecessors. He greatly expanded the war in Afghanistan, led the charge to knock out Gaddafi in Libya, and has launched attacks all over the ME.

It's interesting to note who he attacks and who he supports in the ME. Muslims are forever fighting each other, splitting into various sects.

Wouldn't it be interesting if a Muslim was Commander in Chief of the United States of America military?

House Intelligence Committee: Muslim Congressman André Carson Makes History

U.S. Rep. André Carson, D-Ind., became Tuesday the first Muslim to serve on the House’s Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence. Rep. Nancy Pelosi of California, the House minority leader, announced she would name Carson to the panel at the closed-door weekly Democratic Caucus meeting, Politico reported.

Carson became the second Muslim to serve in Congress after winning a special election to replace his grandmother, the late Rep. Julia Carson, in 2008. Pelosi was expected to formally announce Carson’s selection in the “coming days,” aides said.

Carson previously worked for the Indiana Department of Homeland Security in the anti-terrorism unit, after serving nine years as an officer for the

Indiana State Police, according to a biography on his official website. The House Intelligence Committee has shared oversight of numerous U.S. intelligence agencies, which have been tarred most recently by the Senate’s scathing report on torture carried out against Muslim detainees by the Central Intelligence Agency.

http://www.ibtimes.com/house-intelligence-committee-muslim-congressman-andre-carson-makes-history-1782318