No order to impeach Yingluck, Prayut says

[tbthailand]

Denies NLA told how to vote, insists 'no reconciliation with wrongdoers'

mutually exclusive statements.

[candide]

There was no emergency to impeach her as she is not any more PM and elections are far away. They could have waited for the court decision on the same charge and then decide to impeach. That would have been clear-cut: guilty in court, impeached, not guilty in court, not impeached.

They wanted to impeach her before the court decision, because they wanted a decision based on "opinions" without the constraints of a legal procedure (i.e. as to proof checking, testimonials, legal rights, etc....).

So now you try the invert track?

BTW all impeachment procedures follow the law, are based on evidence and voted on in the Senate (or now by the NLA representing the Senate). Do you want to suggest that Thailand should amend it's laws and procedures because you feel a need to protect Ms. Yingluck ?

Up to my knowledge there is no law saying that the trial, which is currently under discussion between the NACC and the OAG, on the same charge of negligence, must happen after the impeachment. They could have waited and there was no hurry. It has nothing to do wether it is about Yingluck or someone else.

So you can add up:

- a decision on a PM which is not any more in function,

- without knowing if she can judicially be condemned (in court)

- decision based on the same proofs that have been considered unsufficient by the OAG for a trial (I know, you will tell me that the OAG is paid by Mr T)

- according to the constitution of 2007 which has been nullified

- by an assembly that is illegal according to the 2007 constitution

- by an assembly that gave itself the right to impeach (applying the 2007 consitution to an assembly that is illegal according to the same constitution)

- by an assembly nominated by the political faction that overthrow the government or contributed to it. And in which the military plus the PDRC or Dem supporters easily reach a 3/5 majority

- etc...

If they were doing their best to make it look as biased as possible, I think they could not do better

[tbthailand]

)I am not in favour of Yingluck's impeachment, the main reason being that incompetence and negligence from a (reluctant) politician are not crimes but just normal.

But the above post is so much of a distortion that it needs another response. First, this lot haven't committed the same acts as the last lot - they've rectified them by removing most of the boot-lickers in various government and quasi-government positions. Is it perfect - no, but it's a big improvement.

Second they haven't caused 'severe damage' to the economy. That started in 2013 when the economy sank to c1.8% growth. The protests certainly caused more damage and the junta have been in attempted recovery mode ever since. No doubt lifting martial law would help.

Thirdly, of course the junta leader and the coup itself have protection against future law suits - that's what coups do. Yes they abolished the constitution - the one that Thaksin/red shirt supporters have always been against. But they have initiated the drafting of a new constitution.

Fifth & last, no, these people are not the future of Thailand. They never said they were and are an interim governing body to make yet another attempt to bring some semblance of democracy to the country and eliminate one-family rule.

The previous post is so much of a hypocrisy that it needs a response

First, yes, this lot has committed the same acts as the previous government. They have taken cronyism and nepotism to a new level. Yingluck was taken down for transferring a single person, yet this government has filled hundreds of government and state enterprise key positions with military cronies. It is hypocrisy to vilify one act as worthy of taking down a PM, but just brush off the others as business as usual. Corruption has not been reduced one iota, and transparency can be summed up in Prayuth's very firm instruction to ignore the origin of his and his brother's vast wealth.

Second, they have caused the enormous damage to the economy. Nonsense to say it started with 2.8% GDP in 2013 - the economy has been massively damaged due to street protests, martial law and the coup:

Playing politics with the economy is an expensive business. The costs to Thailand’s economy are still piling up. Compared with trend economic growth the cost will be perhaps $20 billion to $30 billion from 2014 to 2016

http://www.economist.com/blogs/banyan/2014/10/thailands-economy

Third, it is hypocrisy of the highest order to brush off illegal acts incurred during a coup as "that's what coups do". From the mouth of Prayuth himself: "I have said many times that we should not reconcile with wrongdoers. Do we need to reconcile with murderers or people who are corrupt?" he said.

Why does this only apply to one group? There are cries for Yingluck's head, some on this forum even want the death penalty, but the same group somehow rationalize that lawbreakingis ok when the result is something you desire. The same with the constitution - how can you explain your hypocrisy that changing one section of the constitution is an impeachable offence, but throwing out the whole constitution after taking the country by force is ok, as long as you make a new one? Can you seriously make that statement with a straight face?

And last, this group is the future of thailand. They are making broad, one-sided reforms that exclude large portions of the population, with the express intent to keep the power within a small group. The "semblance of democracy" will not be democracy at all. This can only lead to the same cycles of violence in the future, a future nobody wants to see.

They are making broad, one-sided reforms that exclude large portions of the population, with the express intent to keep the power within a small group. The "semblance of democracy" will not be democracy at all. This can only lead to the same cycles of violence in the future, a future nobody wants to see.

it's rather sad, but I fear that you are correct... at least that is the path today.

[khunken]

An indication of what you want it to be. To support your view. They have already seen the evidence presented. They heard Yingluck's meaningless mumbo jumbo opening statement. She was instructed that she must turn up to answer subsequent questions - and chose not to do so, in a very down her nose way, by sending a team with a message. She will, as her lawyer alludes to, read the latest script at her closing speech.

No facts, no figures, no apologies. Just the usual arrogant we are right, how dare anyone challenge us, and we're not saying were the money went attitude.She will once again say she is innocent without explaining why she failed to attend one single meeting or really do anything when warned about issues.

You think the Shins ever respected due process in nearly 3 years in office?

Virtually any group would be better than the old gang and cronies presided over by the big leader hiding from his crimes.

I don't buy the argument that any group would be better than the last. This current group has committed the same acts as the past group, cronyism and severe damage to the economy, and abolished an entire constitution instead of just one clause, and don't show any signs of being more competent or less corrupt than the last.

Also, the current leader is hiding behind a self imposed amnesty, and section 44 making him above the law.

So I will repeat, these people are the future of Thailand?

I am not in favour of Yingluck's impeachment, the main reason being that incompetence and negligence from a (reluctant) politician are not crimes but just normal.

But the above post is so much of a distortion that it needs another response. First, this lot haven't committed the same acts as the last lot - they've rectified them by removing most of the boot-lickers in various government and quasi-government positions. Is it perfect - no, but it's a big improvement.

Second they haven't caused 'severe damage' to the economy. That started in 2013 when the economy sank to c1.8% growth. The protests certainly caused more damage and the junta have been in attempted recovery mode ever since. No doubt lifting martial law would help.

Thirdly, of course the junta leader and the coup itself have protection against future law suits - that's what coups do. Yes they abolished the constitution - the one that Thaksin/red shirt supporters have always been against. But they have initiated the drafting of a new constitution.

Fifth & last, no, these people are not the future of Thailand. They never said they were and are an interim governing body to make yet another attempt to bring some semblance of democracy to the country and eliminate one-family rule.

The previous post is so much of a hypocrisy that it needs a response

First, yes, this lot has committed the same acts as the previous government. They have taken cronyism and nepotism to a new level. Yingluck was taken down for transferring a single person, yet this government has filled hundreds of government and state enterprise key positions with military cronies. It is hypocrisy to vilify one act as worthy of taking down a PM, but just brush off the others as business as usual. Corruption has not been reduced one iota, and transparency can be summed up in Prayuth's very firm instruction to ignore the origin of his and his brother's vast wealth.

Second, they have caused the enormous damage to the economy. Nonsense to say it started with 2.8% GDP in 2013 - the economy has been massively damaged due to street protests, martial law and the coup:

Playing politics with the economy is an expensive business. The costs to Thailand’s economy are still piling up. Compared with trend economic growth the cost will be perhaps $20 billion to $30 billion from 2014 to 2016

http://www.economist.com/blogs/banyan/2014/10/thailands-economy

Third, it is hypocrisy of the highest order to brush off illegal acts incurred during a coup as "that's what coups do". From the mouth of Prayuth himself: "I have said many times that we should not reconcile with wrongdoers. Do we need to reconcile with murderers or people who are corrupt?" he said.

Why does this only apply to one group? There are cries for Yingluck's head, some on this forum even want the death penalty, but the same group somehow rationalize that lawbreakingis ok when the result is something you desire. The same with the constitution - how can you explain your hypocrisy that changing one section of the constitution is an impeachable offence, but throwing out the whole constitution after taking the country by force is ok, as long as you make a new one? Can you seriously make that statement with a straight face?

And last, this group is the future of thailand. They are making broad, one-sided reforms that exclude large portions of the population, with the express intent to keep the power within a small group. The "semblance of democracy" will not be democracy at all. This can only lead to the same cycles of violence in the future, a future nobody wants to see.

This time it's not only distortion but less than half-truths as well.

It is absolutely ridiculous to compare what has happened under the junta to what has happened under the various types of Shin rule. Yes, some military have been appointed to quasi-government bodies (I did say it wasn't perfect) but, they have also appointed non-lackeys to positions based on expertise - almost unheard of by any Shin appointee, including Yingluck.

You've obviously shut your eyes to the largest case of corruption - in the CID and friends - since the BCC case in the last century. Actually it ranks with the sum of the cases that await the fugitive criminal's return. Of course the KMITL case doesn't exist and actually getting the RTP to pursue the real killers of protesters never happened - in your world.

I will ignore the conspiracy about Prayuth's wealth as innuendo is not proof.

Yes, I've seen the Economist's figures which attempt to boost their favourite capitalist's image & I've even commented on their BS on their web site. Here's the real trend:

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/thailand/gdp-growth-annual

From the second half of 2012 to the first half of 2014 the trend was downwards, culminating in -0.5%. As the junta only took control in May, it was PTP that took the economy down (yes with some help from the protests) and it has recovered slightly in the second half of 2014. So the 'opportunity cost' figure from the Economist was total bs.

I never mentioned anything about constitutional amendment - you are trying to attribute words to me that I never said. I did say less than half-truth but this is a lie. Not did I say anything about impeachment offences except that I don't agree with it in this case - did you bother to read what I said? BTW impeachment has nothing to do with attempting to change the constitution.

I've no reason to change what I said about the coup or the constitution and won't bother with your hysterical outburst.

Once again the interim body are not the future of Thailand. They are setting up a new constitution, trying to reform the most corrupt body in the country - the RTP - and doing their best to prevent one-family rule. This is planning for the future, not the future itself & I'm not surprised you don't know the difference.

Edited January 20, 2015 by khunken

[mikemac]

The only press releases overseas are overseen by thaksin aligned reporters, anyone believing the crap they write or promote would have to be totally gullible, cant help some people.

What's sad is that you seem to actually believe this. This guy would have to be the Wizard of Oz to control the rest of the world's media.

the press releases are from one source, check it out. For some reason they also go on how thaksin was set up in just about every report as well, guess when you worship the man you dont see that bit. I live in a non political house, no one here gives a damn about any party, I notice that most of those whinging about the coup are from the north, go figure. I am sure that they can speak freely about the corruption committed by the shins and the murders/bombings by the reds.........

I think you would find the majority of anti reds and Junta fans are Issan/northern based retirees. Ginjag, Robbie Nz, Mikemac to name a few of the most outspoken junta fans all reside in the middle of nakhon nowhere i believe.

The crime TS was found guilty of, by Thai standards was relatively minor. The fact he was found guilty in Thailand, and sentenced to jail no less for a crime where there were no ill partied wanting to prosecute, just emphasizes how political it all was. Most international reports i have read are under no illusions that he was far from clean, but are also fairly strong into commenting that it was a politically based charge, which is true.

I will give you top marks for consistency Smutty, being consistently wrong.

Don't know about the other fine gentlemen you mentioned but I have spent the last 5 years + living in Chiang Mai, and before that I was in Chiang Rai for 4 years.

Not exactly "in the middle of nakhon nowhere" as you believe. And I wish I was retired, as opposed to having to go back to Australia from time to time to work in the mining industry.

Thaksin's crimes must have been on a level somewhere above "relatively minor", they have after all kept him in "self imposed exile" for the past 6 or 7 years.

And if you look really, really hard you will see that most of the Shin family's crimes over the years have been politically based as well.

[brucec64]

I don't buy the argument that any group would be better than the last. This current group has committed the same acts as the past group, cronyism and severe damage to the economy, and abolished an entire constitution instead of just one clause, and don't show any signs of being more competent or less corrupt than the last.

Also, the current leader is hiding behind a self imposed amnesty, and section 44 making him above the law.

So I will repeat, these people are the future of Thailand?

I am not in favour of Yingluck's impeachment, the main reason being that incompetence and negligence from a (reluctant) politician are not crimes but just normal.

But the above post is so much of a distortion that it needs another response. First, this lot haven't committed the same acts as the last lot - they've rectified them by removing most of the boot-lickers in various government and quasi-government positions. Is it perfect - no, but it's a big improvement.

Second they haven't caused 'severe damage' to the economy. That started in 2013 when the economy sank to c1.8% growth. The protests certainly caused more damage and the junta have been in attempted recovery mode ever since. No doubt lifting martial law would help.

Thirdly, of course the junta leader and the coup itself have protection against future law suits - that's what coups do. Yes they abolished the constitution - the one that Thaksin/red shirt supporters have always been against. But they have initiated the drafting of a new constitution.

Fifth & last, no, these people are not the future of Thailand. They never said they were and are an interim governing body to make yet another attempt to bring some semblance of democracy to the country and eliminate one-family rule.

The previous post is so much of a hypocrisy that it needs a response

First, yes, this lot has committed the same acts as the previous government. They have taken cronyism and nepotism to a new level. Yingluck was taken down for transferring a single person, yet this government has filled hundreds of government and state enterprise key positions with military cronies. It is hypocrisy to vilify one act as worthy of taking down a PM, but just brush off the others as business as usual. Corruption has not been reduced one iota, and transparency can be summed up in Prayuth's very firm instruction to ignore the origin of his and his brother's vast wealth.

Second, they have caused the enormous damage to the economy. Nonsense to say it started with 2.8% GDP in 2013 - the economy has been massively damaged due to street protests, martial law and the coup:

Playing politics with the economy is an expensive business. The costs to Thailand’s economy are still piling up. Compared with trend economic growth the cost will be perhaps $20 billion to $30 billion from 2014 to 2016

http://www.economist.com/blogs/banyan/2014/10/thailands-economy

Third, it is hypocrisy of the highest order to brush off illegal acts incurred during a coup as "that's what coups do". From the mouth of Prayuth himself: "I have said many times that we should not reconcile with wrongdoers. Do we need to reconcile with murderers or people who are corrupt?" he said.

Why does this only apply to one group? There are cries for Yingluck's head, some on this forum even want the death penalty, but the same group somehow rationalize that lawbreakingis ok when the result is something you desire. The same with the constitution - how can you explain your hypocrisy that changing one section of the constitution is an impeachable offence, but throwing out the whole constitution after taking the country by force is ok, as long as you make a new one? Can you seriously make that statement with a straight face?

And last, this group is the future of thailand. They are making broad, one-sided reforms that exclude large portions of the population, with the express intent to keep the power within a small group. The "semblance of democracy" will not be democracy at all. This can only lead to the same cycles of violence in the future, a future nobody wants to see.

This time it's not only distortion but less than half-truths as well.

It is absolutely ridiculous to compare what has happened under the junta to what has happened under the various types of Shin rule. Yes, some military have been appointed to quasi-government bodies (I did say it wasn't perfect) but, they have also appointed non-lackeys to positions based on expertise - almost unheard of by any Shin appointee, including Yingluck.

You've obviously shut your eyes to the largest case of corruption - in the CID and friends - since the BCC case in the last century. Actually it ranks with the sum of the cases that await the fugitive criminal's return. Of course the KMITL case doesn't exist and actually getting the RTP to pursue the real killers of protesters never happened - in your world.

I will ignore the conspiracy about Prayuth's wealth as innuendo is not proof.

Yes, I've seen the Economist's figures which attempt to boost their favourite capitalist's image & I've even commented on their BS on their web site. Here's the real trend:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?app=forums&module=post&section=post&do=reply_post&f=18&t=793204&qpid=8961256

From the second half of 2012 to the first half of 2014 the trend was downwards, culminating in -0.5%. As the junta only took control in May, it was PTP that took the economy down (yes with some help from the protests) and it has recovered slightly in the second half of 2014. So the 'opportunity cost' figure from the Economist was total bs.

I never mentioned anything about constitutional amendment - you are trying to attribute words to me that I never said. I did say less than half-truth but this is a lie. Not did I say anything about impeachment offences except that I don't agree with it in this case - did you bother to read what I said? BTW impeachment has nothing to do with attempting to change the constitution.

I've no reason to change what I said about the coup or the constitution and won't bother with your hysterical outburst.

Once again the interim body are not the future of Thailand. They are setting up a new constitution, trying to reform the most corrupt body in the country - the RTP - and doing their best to prevent one-family rule. This is planning for the future, not the future itself & I'm not surprised you don't know the difference.

There is only one comment even worth bothering to make for all of this, because it is painfully obvious that you only give credibility to domestic propaganda, and ignore external news sources as "bs" because they don't echo your distorted, one sided view of politics in Thailand.

If you truly think that the "largest case of corruption" - the CID case - had the slightest thing to do with corruption, then you are more uninformed than the rest of your tirade makes you out to be.

BTW - did you go take the same mis-economics course as Djjamie?

[tbthailand]

I don't buy the argument that any group would be better than the last. This current group has committed the same acts as the past group, cronyism and severe damage to the economy, and abolished an entire constitution instead of just one clause, and don't show any signs of being more competent or less corrupt than the last.

Also, the current leader is hiding behind a self imposed amnesty, and section 44 making him above the law.

So I will repeat, these people are the future of Thailand?

I am not in favour of Yingluck's impeachment, the main reason being that incompetence and negligence from a (reluctant) politician are not crimes but just normal.

But the above post is so much of a distortion that it needs another response. First, this lot haven't committed the same acts as the last lot - they've rectified them by removing most of the boot-lickers in various government and quasi-government positions. Is it perfect - no, but it's a big improvement.

Second they haven't caused 'severe damage' to the economy. That started in 2013 when the economy sank to c1.8% growth. The protests certainly caused more damage and the junta have been in attempted recovery mode ever since. No doubt lifting martial law would help.

Thirdly, of course the junta leader and the coup itself have protection against future law suits - that's what coups do. Yes they abolished the constitution - the one that Thaksin/red shirt supporters have always been against. But they have initiated the drafting of a new constitution.

Fifth & last, no, these people are not the future of Thailand. They never said they were and are an interim governing body to make yet another attempt to bring some semblance of democracy to the country and eliminate one-family rule.

The previous post is so much of a hypocrisy that it needs a response

First, yes, this lot has committed the same acts as the previous government. They have taken cronyism and nepotism to a new level. Yingluck was taken down for transferring a single person, yet this government has filled hundreds of government and state enterprise key positions with military cronies. It is hypocrisy to vilify one act as worthy of taking down a PM, but just brush off the others as business as usual. Corruption has not been reduced one iota, and transparency can be summed up in Prayuth's very firm instruction to ignore the origin of his and his brother's vast wealth.

Second, they have caused the enormous damage to the economy. Nonsense to say it started with 2.8% GDP in 2013 - the economy has been massively damaged due to street protests, martial law and the coup:

Playing politics with the economy is an expensive business. The costs to Thailand’s economy are still piling up. Compared with trend economic growth the cost will be perhaps $20 billion to $30 billion from 2014 to 2016

http://www.economist.com/blogs/banyan/2014/10/thailands-economy

Third, it is hypocrisy of the highest order to brush off illegal acts incurred during a coup as "that's what coups do". From the mouth of Prayuth himself: "I have said many times that we should not reconcile with wrongdoers. Do we need to reconcile with murderers or people who are corrupt?" he said.

Why does this only apply to one group? There are cries for Yingluck's head, some on this forum even want the death penalty, but the same group somehow rationalize that lawbreakingis ok when the result is something you desire. The same with the constitution - how can you explain your hypocrisy that changing one section of the constitution is an impeachable offence, but throwing out the whole constitution after taking the country by force is ok, as long as you make a new one? Can you seriously make that statement with a straight face?

And last, this group is the future of thailand. They are making broad, one-sided reforms that exclude large portions of the population, with the express intent to keep the power within a small group. The "semblance of democracy" will not be democracy at all. This can only lead to the same cycles of violence in the future, a future nobody wants to see.

This time it's not only distortion but less than half-truths as well.

It is absolutely ridiculous to compare what has happened under the junta to what has happened under the various types of Shin rule. Yes, some military have been appointed to quasi-government bodies (I did say it wasn't perfect) but, they have also appointed non-lackeys to positions based on expertise - almost unheard of by any Shin appointee, including Yingluck.

You've obviously shut your eyes to the largest case of corruption - in the CID and friends - since the BCC case in the last century. Actually it ranks with the sum of the cases that await the fugitive criminal's return. Of course the KMITL case doesn't exist and actually getting the RTP to pursue the real killers of protesters never happened - in your world.

I will ignore the conspiracy about Prayuth's wealth as innuendo is not proof.

Yes, I've seen the Economist's figures which attempt to boost their favourite capitalist's image & I've even commented on their BS on their web site. Here's the real trend:

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/thailand/gdp-growth-annual

From the second half of 2012 to the first half of 2014 the trend was downwards, culminating in -0.5%. As the junta only took control in May, it was PTP that took the economy down (yes with some help from the protests) and it has recovered slightly in the second half of 2014. So the 'opportunity cost' figure from the Economist was total bs.

I never mentioned anything about constitutional amendment - you are trying to attribute words to me that I never said. I did say less than half-truth but this is a lie. Not did I say anything about impeachment offences except that I don't agree with it in this case - did you bother to read what I said? BTW impeachment has nothing to do with attempting to change the constitution.

I've no reason to change what I said about the coup or the constitution and won't bother with your hysterical outburst.

Once again the interim body are not the future of Thailand. They are setting up a new constitution, trying to reform the most corrupt body in the country - the RTP - and doing their best to prevent one-family rule. This is planning for the future, not the future itself & I'm not surprised you don't know the difference.

just a note to say that the latest top-of-the-food-chain police corruption scandal and LM fiasco doesn't have anything to do with rooting out corruption.

also, the transfers in the police and ministries has been sweeping. There is a reason for that. from the perspective of those currently holding the cards, it is called 'cleansing'.

last but not least, I would say that the current group in charge represents the past-present-and-future. Come on, with 70 years of same same but different, it's not that hard to see is it?

[billd766]

The only press releases overseas are overseen by thaksin aligned reporters, anyone believing the crap they write or promote would have to be totally gullible, cant help some people.

What's sad is that you seem to actually believe this. This guy would have to be the Wizard of Oz to control the rest of the world's media.

the press releases are from one source, check it out. For some reason they also go on how thaksin was set up in just about every report as well, guess when you worship the man you dont see that bit. I live in a non political house, no one here gives a damn about any party, I notice that most of those whinging about the coup are from the north, go figure. I am sure that they can speak freely about the corruption committed by the shins and the murders/bombings by the reds.........

I think you would find the majority of anti reds and Junta fans are Issan/northern based retirees. Ginjag, Robbie Nz, Mikemac to name a few of the most outspoken junta fans all reside in the middle of nakhon nowhere i believe.

The crime TS was found guilty of, by Thai standards was relatively minor. The fact he was found guilty in Thailand, and sentenced to jail no less for a crime where there were no ill partied wanting to prosecute, just emphasizes how political it all was. Most international reports i have read are under no illusions that he was far from clean, but are also fairly strong into commenting that it was a politically based charge, which is true.

If it was a relatively minor crime then it was still a crime that he was found GUILTY of and sentenced to 2 years jail time.

If it was that minor why does Thaksin not come back to face the other 15 charges he is accused of?

After all in his words they are politically motivated and I am sure that the world really cares about that.

[khunken]

I am not in favour of Yingluck's impeachment, the main reason being that incompetence and negligence from a (reluctant) politician are not crimes but just normal.

But the above post is so much of a distortion that it needs another response. First, this lot haven't committed the same acts as the last lot - they've rectified them by removing most of the boot-lickers in various government and quasi-government positions. Is it perfect - no, but it's a big improvement.

Second they haven't caused 'severe damage' to the economy. That started in 2013 when the economy sank to c1.8% growth. The protests certainly caused more damage and the junta have been in attempted recovery mode ever since. No doubt lifting martial law would help.

Thirdly, of course the junta leader and the coup itself have protection against future law suits - that's what coups do. Yes they abolished the constitution - the one that Thaksin/red shirt supporters have always been against. But they have initiated the drafting of a new constitution.

Fifth & last, no, these people are not the future of Thailand. They never said they were and are an interim governing body to make yet another attempt to bring some semblance of democracy to the country and eliminate one-family rule.

The previous post is so much of a hypocrisy that it needs a response

First, yes, this lot has committed the same acts as the previous government. They have taken cronyism and nepotism to a new level. Yingluck was taken down for transferring a single person, yet this government has filled hundreds of government and state enterprise key positions with military cronies. It is hypocrisy to vilify one act as worthy of taking down a PM, but just brush off the others as business as usual. Corruption has not been reduced one iota, and transparency can be summed up in Prayuth's very firm instruction to ignore the origin of his and his brother's vast wealth.

Second, they have caused the enormous damage to the economy. Nonsense to say it started with 2.8% GDP in 2013 - the economy has been massively damaged due to street protests, martial law and the coup:

Playing politics with the economy is an expensive business. The costs to Thailand’s economy are still piling up. Compared with trend economic growth the cost will be perhaps $20 billion to $30 billion from 2014 to 2016

http://www.economist.com/blogs/banyan/2014/10/thailands-economy

Third, it is hypocrisy of the highest order to brush off illegal acts incurred during a coup as "that's what coups do". From the mouth of Prayuth himself: "I have said many times that we should not reconcile with wrongdoers. Do we need to reconcile with murderers or people who are corrupt?" he said.

Why does this only apply to one group? There are cries for Yingluck's head, some on this forum even want the death penalty, but the same group somehow rationalize that lawbreakingis ok when the result is something you desire. The same with the constitution - how can you explain your hypocrisy that changing one section of the constitution is an impeachable offence, but throwing out the whole constitution after taking the country by force is ok, as long as you make a new one? Can you seriously make that statement with a straight face?

And last, this group is the future of thailand. They are making broad, one-sided reforms that exclude large portions of the population, with the express intent to keep the power within a small group. The "semblance of democracy" will not be democracy at all. This can only lead to the same cycles of violence in the future, a future nobody wants to see.

This time it's not only distortion but less than half-truths as well.

It is absolutely ridiculous to compare what has happened under the junta to what has happened under the various types of Shin rule. Yes, some military have been appointed to quasi-government bodies (I did say it wasn't perfect) but, they have also appointed non-lackeys to positions based on expertise - almost unheard of by any Shin appointee, including Yingluck.

You've obviously shut your eyes to the largest case of corruption - in the CID and friends - since the BCC case in the last century. Actually it ranks with the sum of the cases that await the fugitive criminal's return. Of course the KMITL case doesn't exist and actually getting the RTP to pursue the real killers of protesters never happened - in your world.

I will ignore the conspiracy about Prayuth's wealth as innuendo is not proof.

Yes, I've seen the Economist's figures which attempt to boost their favourite capitalist's image & I've even commented on their BS on their web site. Here's the real trend:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?app=forums&module=post&section=post&do=reply_post&f=18&t=793204&qpid=8961256

From the second half of 2012 to the first half of 2014 the trend was downwards, culminating in -0.5%. As the junta only took control in May, it was PTP that took the economy down (yes with some help from the protests) and it has recovered slightly in the second half of 2014. So the 'opportunity cost' figure from the Economist was total bs.

I never mentioned anything about constitutional amendment - you are trying to attribute words to me that I never said. I did say less than half-truth but this is a lie. Not did I say anything about impeachment offences except that I don't agree with it in this case - did you bother to read what I said? BTW impeachment has nothing to do with attempting to change the constitution.

I've no reason to change what I said about the coup or the constitution and won't bother with your hysterical outburst.

Once again the interim body are not the future of Thailand. They are setting up a new constitution, trying to reform the most corrupt body in the country - the RTP - and doing their best to prevent one-family rule. This is planning for the future, not the future itself & I'm not surprised you don't know the difference.

There is only one comment even worth bothering to make for all of this, because it is painfully obvious that you only give credibility to domestic propaganda, and ignore external news sources as "bs" because they don't echo your distorted, one sided view of politics in Thailand.

If you truly think that the "largest case of corruption" - the CID case - had the slightest thing to do with corruption, then you are more uninformed than the rest of your tirade makes you out to be.

BTW - did you go take the same mis-economics course as Djjamie?

Good to see that you can't answer some of my points but not so good that you can't explain putting words in my mouth - but predictable.

I give credibility where it is due and just because I disabuse the Economist doesn't mean I Ignore external news sources. If you bothered to check the link I posted is to an external source, so your accusation is baseless.

If you think that the CID case didn't have anything to do with corruption, I can only surmise that it's not a problem for you.

Sounds like you've been taking squawking lessons from the p-p-p-parrot.

[seajae]

I realize I do come in here and be vitriolic at times but when everyone can see what is happening except for the apologists we have to wonder why. I am no fan of the yellows or suthep and in fact have bagged them all in here on many occasions, I read, see and take in what is being said by everyone, what they do and how they do it. If I see wrong doing I will state it openly, not try to change the truth of the matter and use innuendo. I will also do it to whoever is guilty of it as I simply try to stick to the facts. Seems the only ones that take offence are the ptp/red/shin fans for some reason, why is it that you lot are incapable of seeing the truth when it is right before your eyes, instead you try to ridicule everyone else. Yl is a case in point. everyone else realises she never once did the job she was supposed to but you lot refuse to accept it, so who is pulling whose strings.

[Robby nz]

What's sad is that you seem to actually believe this. This guy would have to be the Wizard of Oz to control the rest of the world's media.

the press releases are from one source, check it out. For some reason they also go on how thaksin was set up in just about every report as well, guess when you worship the man you dont see that bit. I live in a non political house, no one here gives a damn about any party, I notice that most of those whinging about the coup are from the north, go figure. I am sure that they can speak freely about the corruption committed by the shins and the murders/bombings by the reds.........

I think you would find the majority of anti reds and Junta fans are Issan/northern based retirees. Ginjag, Robbie Nz, Mikemac to name a few of the most outspoken junta fans all reside in the middle of nakhon nowhere i believe.

The crime TS was found guilty of, by Thai standards was relatively minor. The fact he was found guilty in Thailand, and sentenced to jail no less for a crime where there were no ill partied wanting to prosecute, just emphasizes how political it all was. Most international reports i have read are under no illusions that he was far from clean, but are also fairly strong into commenting that it was a politically based charge, which is true.

Once again you prove you have absolutely no idea what you write about.

As if any more proof was needed.

[rubl]

There was no emergency to impeach her as she is not any more PM and elections are far away. They could have waited for the court decision on the same charge and then decide to impeach. That would have been clear-cut: guilty in court, impeached, not guilty in court, not impeached.

They wanted to impeach her before the court decision, because they wanted a decision based on "opinions" without the constraints of a legal procedure (i.e. as to proof checking, testimonials, legal rights, etc....).

So now you try the invert track?

BTW all impeachment procedures follow the law, are based on evidence and voted on in the Senate (or now by the NLA representing the Senate). Do you want to suggest that Thailand should amend it's laws and procedures because you feel a need to protect Ms. Yingluck ?

Up to my knowledge there is no law saying that the trial, which is currently under discussion between the NACC and the OAG, on the same charge of negligence, must happen after the impeachment. They could have waited and there was no hurry. It has nothing to do wether it is about Yingluck or someone else.

So you can add up:

- a decision on a PM which is not any more in function,

- without knowing if she can judicially be condemned (in court)

- decision based on the same proofs that have been considered unsufficient by the OAG for a trial (I know, you will tell me that the OAG is paid by Mr T)

- according to the constitution of 2007 which has been nullified

- by an assembly that is illegal according to the 2007 constitution

- by an assembly that gave itself the right to impeach (applying the 2007 consitution to an assembly that is illegal according to the same constitution)

- by an assembly nominated by the political faction that overthrow the government or contributed to it. And in which the military plus the PDRC or Dem supporters easily reach a 3/5 majority

- etc...

If they were doing their best to make it look as biased as possible, I think they could not do better

So, no information on why a 'self-financing' scheme was allowed to rake up a 700 billion Baht loss?

Only some more obfuscation and diversional tactics ?

[rubl]

)I am not in favour of Yingluck's impeachment, the main reason being that incompetence and negligence from a (reluctant) politician are not crimes but just normal.

But the above post is so much of a distortion that it needs another response. First, this lot haven't committed the same acts as the last lot - they've rectified them by removing most of the boot-lickers in various government and quasi-government positions. Is it perfect - no, but it's a big improvement.

Second they haven't caused 'severe damage' to the economy. That started in 2013 when the economy sank to c1.8% growth. The protests certainly caused more damage and the junta have been in attempted recovery mode ever since. No doubt lifting martial law would help.

Thirdly, of course the junta leader and the coup itself have protection against future law suits - that's what coups do. Yes they abolished the constitution - the one that Thaksin/red shirt supporters have always been against. But they have initiated the drafting of a new constitution.

Fifth & last, no, these people are not the future of Thailand. They never said they were and are an interim governing body to make yet another attempt to bring some semblance of democracy to the country and eliminate one-family rule.

The previous post is so much of a hypocrisy that it needs a response

First, yes, this lot has committed the same acts as the previous government. They have taken cronyism and nepotism to a new level. Yingluck was taken down for transferring a single person, yet this government has filled hundreds of government and state enterprise key positions with military cronies. It is hypocrisy to vilify one act as worthy of taking down a PM, but just brush off the others as business as usual. Corruption has not been reduced one iota, and transparency can be summed up in Prayuth's very firm instruction to ignore the origin of his and his brother's vast wealth.

Second, they have caused the enormous damage to the economy. Nonsense to say it started with 2.8% GDP in 2013 - the economy has been massively damaged due to street protests, martial law and the coup:

Playing politics with the economy is an expensive business. The costs to Thailand’s economy are still piling up. Compared with trend economic growth the cost will be perhaps $20 billion to $30 billion from 2014 to 2016

http://www.economist.com/blogs/banyan/2014/10/thailands-economy

Third, it is hypocrisy of the highest order to brush off illegal acts incurred during a coup as "that's what coups do". From the mouth of Prayuth himself: "I have said many times that we should not reconcile with wrongdoers. Do we need to reconcile with murderers or people who are corrupt?" he said.

Why does this only apply to one group? There are cries for Yingluck's head, some on this forum even want the death penalty, but the same group somehow rationalize that lawbreakingis ok when the result is something you desire. The same with the constitution - how can you explain your hypocrisy that changing one section of the constitution is an impeachable offence, but throwing out the whole constitution after taking the country by force is ok, as long as you make a new one? Can you seriously make that statement with a straight face?

And last, this group is the future of thailand. They are making broad, one-sided reforms that exclude large portions of the population, with the express intent to keep the power within a small group. The "semblance of democracy" will not be democracy at all. This can only lead to the same cycles of violence in the future, a future nobody wants to see.

They are making broad, one-sided reforms that exclude large portions of the population, with the express intent to keep the power within a small group. The "semblance of democracy" will not be democracy at all. This can only lead to the same cycles of violence in the future, a future nobody wants to see.

it's rather sad, but I fear that you are correct... at least that is the path today.

It's getting away from the topic otherwise I would ask for some information on the statement with 'one-sided reforms that exclude large portions of the population".

More diversion from the RPPS disaster and the lack of proper answers on why it was allowed to rake up 700 billion Baht in losses.

[ianf]

Just mentioned on ABC news Australia that he had ordered her impeached.

Never believe journalists unless they say what you want to hear.

[candide]

There was no emergency to impeach her as she is not any more PM and elections are far away. They could have waited for the court decision on the same charge and then decide to impeach. That would have been clear-cut: guilty in court, impeached, not guilty in court, not impeached.

They wanted to impeach her before the court decision, because they wanted a decision based on "opinions" without the constraints of a legal procedure (i.e. as to proof checking, testimonials, legal rights, etc....).

So now you try the invert track?

BTW all impeachment procedures follow the law, are based on evidence and voted on in the Senate (or now by the NLA representing the Senate). Do you want to suggest that Thailand should amend it's laws and procedures because you feel a need to protect Ms. Yingluck ?

Up to my knowledge there is no law saying that the trial, which is currently under discussion between the NACC and the OAG, on the same charge of negligence, must happen after the impeachment. They could have waited and there was no hurry. It has nothing to do wether it is about Yingluck or someone else.

So you can add up:

- a decision on a PM which is not any more in function,

- without knowing if she can judicially be condemned (in court)

- decision based on the same proofs that have been considered unsufficient by the OAG for a trial (I know, you will tell me that the OAG is paid by Mr T)

- according to the constitution of 2007 which has been nullified

- by an assembly that is illegal according to the 2007 constitution

- by an assembly that gave itself the right to impeach (applying the 2007 consitution to an assembly that is illegal according to the same constitution)

- by an assembly nominated by the political faction that overthrow the government or contributed to it. And in which the military plus the PDRC or Dem supporters easily reach a 3/5 majority

- etc...

If they were doing their best to make it look as biased as possible, I think they could not do better

So, no information on why a 'self-financing' scheme was allowed to rake up a 700 billion Baht loss?

Only some more obfuscation and diversional tactics ?

So no information on why this process wouldn't be biased, i.e. based on judically accepted and checked proof, judicially valid examination process, assembly that is legitimate by another reason than self-legitimation, insurance that it's not politically biased throught the nomination and composition of the assembly, etc...

Only obfuscation and diversional tactics, by always repeating the same sentence?

[rubl]

So, no information on why a 'self-financing' scheme was allowed to rake up a 700 billion Baht loss?

Only some more obfuscation and diversional tactics ?

So no information on why this process wouldn't be biased, i.e. based on judically accepted and checked proof, judicially valid examination process, assembly that is legitimate by another reason than self-legitimation, insurance that it's not politically biased throught the nomination and composition of the assembly, etc...

Only obfuscation and diversional tactics, by always repeating the same sentence?

So still asking questions which are just suggestive?

If you feel so strongly about this why not write your local congressman, constituency MP, and whoever. Complain your government doesn't do anything apart from dealing with the Thai government as usual.

In the mean time I wonder why so much nonsense is required to save the pretty ass of an Amply Rich lady who doesn't want to take responsibility or be responsible even though it was under her tenure as PM that the RPPS lost 700 billion Baht. She stated to have listened to comments, worries, warnings and still the RPPS lost more and more money. Maybe the NLA should also ask why the blanket amnesty bill suddenly covered her own first year in office ?

[binjalin]

Your remark suggests that not even you might be neutral. So, on which side are you? The side of the enraged tax -payers or the side which has grown beyond caring about money ?

you are right dear Rubl I am not 'neutral' I am for the poor, the needy and the electorate (which currently has NO voice)

I have no affinity with 'tax payers' nor those that have 'grown beyond caring about money'

I am ON the side of those that need education, health treatment and care

I see the ammart protecting itself and it's wealth through political manipulation and only fools fall for it, as in every country - do you fall for it dear Rubl? I suspect, regretfully, you do

[Thai at Heart]

Just a nudge and a wink

[NeverSure]

-snip-

Why does this only apply to one group? There are cries for Yingluck's head, some on this forum even want the death penalty, but the same group somehow rationalize that lawbreakingis ok when the result is something you desire. The same with the constitution - how can you explain your hypocrisy that changing one section of the constitution is an impeachable offence, but throwing out the whole constitution after taking the country by force is ok, as long as you make a new one? Can you seriously make that statement with a straight face?

And last, this group is the future of thailand. They are making broad, one-sided reforms that exclude large portions of the population, with the express intent to keep the power within a small group. The "semblance of democracy" will not be democracy at all. This can only lead to the same cycles of violence in the future, a future nobody wants to see.

Well said. That's it in a nutshell.

Edited January 20, 2015 by NeverSure

[Thai at Heart]

They are making broad, one-sided reforms that exclude large portions of the population, with the express intent to keep the power within a small group. The "semblance of democracy" will not be democracy at all. This can only lead to the same cycles of violence in the future, a future nobody wants to see.

it's rather sad, but I fear that you are correct... at least that is the path today.

What I really fear is that the amaarts inabilty to give even an inch, will end in the country really exploding. There are inevitabilties coming to Thailand that will cause upheaval and to see this juntas desperation to empeach and convict in the way they are shows how desperate they are. They are hanging on by the skin of their fingers and it is absolutely INEVITABLE that in time, democracy will out and it probably wont be a democracy that Thaksin or the junta like at all. It will be something akin to a western democracy that treats everyone pretty much equally. That is where Thailand has to end up, but the amaart and army keep winning by pulling it back. They not dodgy politicians are the enemy of Thailand's future.

THis is why I can't understand foreigners ever getting behind the junta. The best thing that could have happened for the future of Thailand was that Yingluck would have eventually screwed it up so badly that enough of the electorate would turn on her. Instead Thailand has gone 10 steps back to the junta and has to start all over again. What Thailand desperately needs is more elections and freedom not the false safety of a coup and this cronyism and arbitrary judegment to save the country.

[sundrenched]

-snip-

Why does this only apply to one group? There are cries for Yingluck's head, some on this forum even want the death penalty, but the same group somehow rationalize that lawbreakingis ok when the result is something you desire. The same with the constitution - how can you explain your hypocrisy that changing one section of the constitution is an impeachable offence, but throwing out the whole constitution after taking the country by force is ok, as long as you make a new one? Can you seriously make that statement with a straight face?

And last, this group is the future of thailand. They are making broad, one-sided reforms that exclude large portions of the population, with the express intent to keep the power within a small group. The "semblance of democracy" will not be democracy at all. This can only lead to the same cycles of violence in the future, a future nobody wants to see.

Well said. That's it in a nutshell.

Amen. Cue the useful fool brigade to twist this into being pro Thaksin.

Thaksin is as devious as they come, but it would have been better to let the system run its course to put pressure on the Democrats to evolve into an electable party. Or more likely, a new party to fill the middle ground. Now the clock is simply being turned back to the 1980 with the amart entrenching their exploitation for another generation, and we have despicable fools here cheering it on. What kind of comptempt do you reserve for a Westerner who comes to a developing country and becomes a cheerleader for the exploitative elites?

[halloween]

Amen. Cue the useful fool brigade to twist this into being pro Thaksin.

Thaksin is as devious as they come, but it would have been better to let the system run its course to put pressure on the Democrats to evolve into an electable party. Or more likely, a new party to fill the middle ground. Now the clock is simply being turned back to the 1980 with the amart entrenching their exploitation for another generation, and we have despicable fools here cheering it on. What kind of comptempt do you reserve for a Westerner who comes to a developing country and becomes a cheerleader for the exploitative elites?

What kind of contempt? Oh, about the same as for those willing to ignore blatant criminality in their facile acceptance of a solution.

Edited January 20, 2015 by halloween

[sundrenched]

They are making broad, one-sided reforms that exclude large portions of the population, with the express intent to keep the power within a small group. The "semblance of democracy" will not be democracy at all. This can only lead to the same cycles of violence in the future, a future nobody wants to see.

it's rather sad, but I fear that you are correct... at least that is the path today.

What I really fear is that the amaarts inabilty to give even an inch, will end in the country really exploding. There are inevitabilties coming to Thailand that will cause upheaval and to see this juntas desperation to empeach and convict in the way they are shows how desperate they are. They are hanging on by the skin of their fingers and it is absolutely INEVITABLE that in time, democracy will out and it probably wont be a democracy that Thaksin or the junta like at all. It will be something akin to a western democracy that treats everyone pretty much equally. That is where Thailand has to end up, but the amaart and army keep winning by pulling it back. They not dodgy politicians are the enemy of Thailand's future.

THis is why I can't understand foreigners ever getting behind the junta. The best thing that could have happened for the future of Thailand was that Yingluck would have eventually screwed it up so badly that enough of the electorate would turn on her. Instead Thailand has gone 10 steps back to the junta and has to start all over again. What Thailand desperately needs is more elections and freedom not the false safety of a coup and this cronyism and arbitrary judegment to save the country.

You were posting at the same time as I, and I was thinking the same thing. The Thaksin thing was starting to implode on itself with the amnesty bill and the rice bill. They might have got another 5 years, but a window was beginning to open for a new party. Now it's retro politics and a different group of pigs at the trough. Note that the railway plans that were supposed to put Thailand in hock for the next 2 generations, and which made another term of a Thaksin government intolerable, are going ahead with increased budgets, little transparency, and not a squeek from those who were screaming corruption before. Edited January 20, 2015 by sundrenched

[sundrenched]

Amen. Cue the useful fool brigade to twist this into being pro Thaksin.

Thaksin is as devious as they come, but it would have been better to let the system run its course to put pressure on the Democrats to evolve into an electable party. Or more likely, a new party to fill the middle ground. Now the clock is simply being turned back to the 1980 with the amart entrenching their exploitation for another generation, and we have despicable fools here cheering it on. What kind of comptempt do you reserve for a Westerner who comes to a developing country and becomes a cheerleader for the exploitative elites?

What kind of contempt? Oh, about the same as for those willing to ignore blatant criminality in their facile acceptance of a solution.

As others have said, corruption is a given here with any camp. Rather than ignore blatant criminality (I guess you're not referring to the microphones and plasma TVs in government house), you could constrain a democratically elected government with the checks and balances that are already in place. The fact of Thai politics is also that the army is the ultimate arbiter of what is allowed by democratically elected governments, so no need to take over outright.

[halloween]

You were posting at the same time as I, and I was thinking the same thing. The Thaksin thing was starting to implode on itself with the amnesty bill and the rice bill. They might have go another 5 years, but a window was beginning to open for a new party. Now it's retro politics and a different group of pigs at the trough. Note that the railway plans that were supposed to put Thailand in hock for the next 2 generations, and which made another term of a Thaksin government intolerable, are going ahead with increased budgets, little transparency, and not a squeek from those who were screaming corruption before.

The currently proposed railway improvements bear little to no resemblance those proposed by Thaksin via his puppet. Nor do I hear of huge borrowings to finance said improvements. That money, which many suspect would have been used to finance the rice scam whose cancellation would have caused an unwelcome voter backlash, was supposedly for high speed passenger services, complete with designer lunch boxes.

Just how much do you think the rice scam would have cost the country if allowed to continue for 5 years? How many trillions of baht should they have been allowed to steal and waste before "democracy" ran its course? And what makes you think that it wouldn't all have been covered by Yingluk's amnesty bill, passed as soon as they returned to office (making the BIG assumption they could bribe their way back in)?

[halloween]

Amen. Cue the useful fool brigade to twist this into being pro Thaksin.

Thaksin is as devious as they come, but it would have been better to let the system run its course to put pressure on the Democrats to evolve into an electable party. Or more likely, a new party to fill the middle ground. Now the clock is simply being turned back to the 1980 with the amart entrenching their exploitation for another generation, and we have despicable fools here cheering it on. What kind of comptempt do you reserve for a Westerner who comes to a developing country and becomes a cheerleader for the exploitative elites?

What kind of contempt? Oh, about the same as for those willing to ignore blatant criminality in their facile acceptance of a solution.

As others have said, corruption is a given here with any camp. Rather than ignore blatant criminality (I guess you're not referring to the microphones and plasma TVs in government house), you could constrain a democratically elected government with the checks and balances that are already in place. The fact of Thai politics is also that the army is the ultimate arbiter of what is allowed by democratically elected governments, so no need to take over outright.

Yes the checks and balances were working so well constraining PTP and the rice scam. Oh wait, their funding was being cut, the DSI were co-opted, and the BIB were being led by Thaksin sycophants unable/unwilling to find the murderers of protesters, but I'm sure they would have stopped the complicated financial scams like the G2G deals, given another decade or 2.

[Thai at Heart]

They are making broad, one-sided reforms that exclude large portions of the population, with the express intent to keep the power within a small group. The "semblance of democracy" will not be democracy at all. This can only lead to the same cycles of violence in the future, a future nobody wants to see.

it's rather sad, but I fear that you are correct... at least that is the path today.

What I really fear is that the amaarts inabilty to give even an inch, will end in the country really exploding. There are inevitabilties coming to Thailand that will cause upheaval and to see this juntas desperation to empeach and convict in the way they are shows how desperate they are. They are hanging on by the skin of their fingers and it is absolutely INEVITABLE that in time, democracy will out and it probably wont be a democracy that Thaksin or the junta like at all. It will be something akin to a western democracy that treats everyone pretty much equally. That is where Thailand has to end up, but the amaart and army keep winning by pulling it back. They not dodgy politicians are the enemy of Thailand's future.

THis is why I can't understand foreigners ever getting behind the junta. The best thing that could have happened for the future of Thailand was that Yingluck would have eventually screwed it up so badly that enough of the electorate would turn on her. Instead Thailand has gone 10 steps back to the junta and has to start all over again. What Thailand desperately needs is more elections and freedom not the false safety of a coup and this cronyism and arbitrary judegment to save the country.

You were posting at the same time as I, and I was thinking the same thing. The Thaksin thing was starting to implode on itself with the amnesty bill and the rice bill. They might have got another 5 years, but a window was beginning to open for a new party. Now it's retro politics and a different group of pigs at the trough. Note that the railway plans that were supposed to put Thailand in hock for the next 2 generations, and which made another term of a Thaksin government intolerable, are going ahead with increased budgets, little transparency, and not a squeek from those who were screaming corruption before.

Exactly. It is just a case of same s**t different hat. This is why it was always going to be very stupid from an independent point of view to ever support a coup. It just puts everything back another 5 to 10 years in terms of progress. The progress is going to be hard no matter what because both sides are so corrupt. So believing that in some way the junta represent some kind of safe port in the stort is nonsense. Thailand should be trying to get away from that port, and continuing its voyage.

But alas, the crew are back in port on bread and water being told they have never had it so good.

[NeverSure]

There are people here who are arguing that two wrongs make a right.

Nothing has happened in Thailand which will assure fairness or future stability. The power has switched sides which is all that was intended in the first place.

Thai a Heart is soooo right. The only way that Thais could learn about the consequences of their votes would be to have them suffer the consequences of them. That's how we all learn from our mistakes.

I can't understand how any Westerner who grew up with the privilege of democracy which allowed a first world country and its advantages could support a coup in a third world country which seems determined to remain a third world country.

[halloween]

There are people here who are arguing that two wrongs make a right.

Nothing has happened in Thailand which will assure fairness or future stability. The power has switched sides which is all that was intended in the first place.

Thai a Heart is soooo right. The only way that Thais could learn about the consequences of their votes would be to have them suffer the consequences of them. That's how we all learn from our mistakes.

I can't understand how any Westerner who grew up with the privilege of democracy which allowed a first world country and its advantages could support a coup in a third world country which seems determined to remain a third world country.

Really? Stopping blatant theft by a government and publicly prosecuting them is a far inferior process to letting them steal until the country collapses financially?

Democracy at ANY price?

It might suit you to benefit from that, but I have children here, and I would rather not have them pay for the consequences of your lofty ideals.

[TheClog]

I wouldn't have any problem with Yingluck being up before a legitimete court, of democratic basis, but up,in front of Prayuths baying puppet mob?

Come on now, you would soon change your tune if it were you.

And let's be honest you needn't have committed any crime for you to be there.