JAG Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 "Sheeple" - here we go again, utter contempt for the Thai Electorate. Oh, the whitemans burden! Not 'utter contempt.' Nice try at sensationalism, but it was a dud. Not even udder contempt (hate for cow udders). No, but I can't help surmise that much of the Thai electorate, particularly in Issan and northern Thailand, are easily duped. They actually believe that, because a Shinawatre is rich, that person won't be corrupt or tempted to amass money in devious ways. A week before the election which brought Ms Yingluck to top position, there was a campaign by Reds which touted the populist proposals/promises (if TRT came in to power) of computer tablets for every student. It worked - almost as well as the semi-clandestine pay-for-votes program by Reds. Yes, more than a few of my hill tribe friends here in northernmost Thailand were paid to vote for the Reds. The going rate (depending whether you're very poor or just poor) was between 200 and 500 baht. Oh, and there are no televised political debates. Indeed, any real campaigning would be met by 'defamation of character' lawsuits. When Thai people (and hill tribers) get better apprised of their legal rights, and what democracy is, then Thailand might get started on the route to democracy. It also wouldn't hurt to be able to look past blatant pandering by politicians. Until then, I'll use the word 'sheeple.' And when you do, I'll continue to suggest that you do so out of contempt for them. It is one thing believing that you know better, it is another thing allowing that belief to justify terms like "sheeple". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAG Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 "Sheeple" - here we go again, utter contempt for the Thai Electorate. Oh, the whitemans burden! Not 'utter contempt.' Nice try at sensationalism, but it was a dud. Not even udder contempt (hate for cow udders). No, but I can't help surmise that much of the Thai electorate, particularly in Issan and northern Thailand, are easily duped. They actually believe that, because a Shinawatre is rich, that person won't be corrupt or tempted to amass money in devious ways. A week before the election which brought Ms Yingluck to top position, there was a campaign by Reds which touted the populist proposals/promises (if TRT came in to power) of computer tablets for every student. It worked - almost as well as the semi-clandestine pay-for-votes program by Reds. Yes, more than a few of my hill tribe friends here in northernmost Thailand were paid to vote for the Reds. The going rate (depending whether you're very poor or just poor) was between 200 and 500 baht. Oh, and there are no televised political debates. Indeed, any real campaigning would be met by 'defamation of character' lawsuits. When Thai people (and hill tribers) get better apprised of their legal rights, and what democracy is, then Thailand might get started on the route to democracy. It also wouldn't hurt to be able to look past blatant pandering by politicians. Until then, I'll use the word 'sheeple.' It's one thing believing that you know better than Thais, it is another to belittle them based on that belief. That's why whenever you use the word "sheeple" I will suggest that it reveals your contempt for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbthailand Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 2014 = 2006 NACC = AEC can't teach old dinosaurs new tricks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 So you think politicians should be immune from prosecution - for negligence, fraud, lying, deliberately misleading, failing to do their sworn duty etc. And that they should not be judged by a court of law, but only by the electorate, Do you mean in an election so their only punishment would be loss of office, regardless of any act, criminal or otherwise? Interesting version of democracy that. Do you know of any country that runs that way? Putting it's politicians above the law? NK, Zimbabwe, maybe? Do you ever watch Question Time from the uk. Every answer is a partial lie, a twist of the truth. This is politics. How many politicians have proposed a policy to achieve A, knowing that one of the consequences is an unpalatable B? All of them. Putting politicians on trial for legal policies is a very retrograde step for democracy in my opinion. It is too arbitrary. Absolutely! The bloody cheek to try to hold politicians accountable for something like a mere 700 billion Baht loss after they positioned a scheme as 'self-financing'. Next we'll study some cases in real world business where thanks to T@H managers will breathe more easily as they should no longer have to justify anything towards their shareholders. This is precisely where your arguement falls down. Governments are not businesses and they invest in all sorts of things every day that lose money, some a lot and some a little, some things you agree with some things you dont. Criminalising something because it loses money and you don't like it is by its very definition partisan. Just look at the debates about tax rises, tax decreases, spending caps and spending booms that go on during elections all over the world Thais can pass whatever rules and regulations they like to constrain their government spending. In fact as far as I know, they have a debt to gdp maximum of 50% which must be passed by supermajority to increase it. This is precisely why criminalising this is a very dangerous precedent to set if it isn't done transparently. If you want to see what I mean, go to a bar in Texas and tell them you love Obamas plans for healthcare and see how well you do. They would lock him up for it too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucec64 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) This article is clearly an attempt by the NACC to influence the impeachment proceedings. The leader of the OAG side of the joint panel announced that this was news to him and that additional evidence and witnesses were required in order to decide on the case. (article in BKK Post) As a further show of hypocrisy by the current group in power - the NACC called a meeting with the OAG, but did not invite all members of the OAG, and forced a vote through! And they are impeaching the ex leader of the Senate for dubious meeting practices... A clear witch hunt by the NACC. This whole process is a mockery of justice. Edited January 21, 2015 by brucec64 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Absolutely! The bloody cheek to try to hold politicians accountable for something like a mere 700 billion Baht loss after they positioned a scheme as 'self-financing'. Next we'll study some cases in real world business where thanks to T@H managers will breathe more easily as they should no longer have to justify anything towards their shareholders. This is precisely where your arguement falls down. Governments are not businesses and they invest in all sorts of things every day that lose money, some a lot and some a little, some things you agree with some things you dont. Criminalising something because it loses money and you don't like it is by its very definition partisan. Just look at the debates about tax rises, tax decreases, spending caps and spending booms that go on during elections all over the world Thais can pass whatever rules and regulations they like to constrain their government spending. In fact as far as I know, they have a debt to gdp maximum of 50% which must be passed by supermajority to increase it. This is precisely why criminalising this is a very dangerous precedent to set if it isn't done transparently. If you want to see what I mean, go to a bar in Texas and tell them you love Obamas plans for healthcare and see how well you do. They would lock him up for it too... Although my post was somewhat tongue-in-cheek, the tendency in the E.C. is to professionalise government. Furthermore, the specific case of the RPPS positioned and defended as 'self-financing' scheme with a current loss of 700 billion Baht or so cannot be swept under the table just like that. The Yingluck Government did it's best to obfuscate, present white lies, state to be in control, no problems all well. Well, take them to task, accountability doesn't stop just because one is a politician and lying. As I wrote before had the Yingluck Government positioned their RPPS as subsidy which required a reservation in the National Budget even a single hundred billion Baht would have been grudgingly accepted with more people looking at the normal administration and accounting on budgets. So, you make your bed and you lay in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) This article is clearly an attempt by the NACC to influence the impeachment proceedings. The leader of the OAG side of the joint panel just came out and said that this was news to him and that additional evidence and witnesses were required in order to decide on the case. (article in BKK) A clear witch hunt by the NACC. This whole process is a mockery of justice. A former PM refusing to be responsible, have knowledge, be accountable, answer questions is a mockery. BTW the Supreme Court for Political Office Holders seems the right court, wouldn't you say? PS the Pheu Thai filing a case against the NACC is pure coincidence and has nothing to do with unduly trying to influence the impeachment procedure. Edited January 21, 2015 by rubl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thailiketoo Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Sorry if this has been posted before but I doubt if anyone else here is capable of thinking of it. Of course I could be wrong but I didn't read the whole thread. She goes to jail and she becomes the Nelson Mandela of Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucec64 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 This article is clearly an attempt by the NACC to influence the impeachment proceedings. The leader of the OAG side of the joint panel just came out and said that this was news to him and that additional evidence and witnesses were required in order to decide on the case. (article in BKK) A clear witch hunt by the NACC. This whole process is a mockery of justice. A former PM refusing to be responsible, have knowledge, be accountable, answer questions is a mockery. BTW the Supreme Court for Political Office Holders seems the right court, wouldn't you say? PS the Pheu Thai filing a case against the NACC is pure coincidence and has nothing to do with unduly trying to influence the impeachment procedure. If you actually responded to my comment, instead of obsfucating, i would respond back! Don't you think that this conduct by the NACC is clearly a witch hunt? Using the same underhanded meeting tactics that they are claiming the senate leaders used in their impeachment bid. (Please do not respond with rice scheme and 700 billion - I counted at least 20 of your posts in the last 2 days making reference to this. You must have some other things to say about politics in Thailand) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 This article is clearly an attempt by the NACC to influence the impeachment proceedings. The leader of the OAG side of the joint panel just came out and said that this was news to him and that additional evidence and witnesses were required in order to decide on the case. (article in BKK) A clear witch hunt by the NACC. This whole process is a mockery of justice. A former PM refusing to be responsible, have knowledge, be accountable, answer questions is a mockery. BTW the Supreme Court for Political Office Holders seems the right court, wouldn't you say? PS the Pheu Thai filing a case against the NACC is pure coincidence and has nothing to do with unduly trying to influence the impeachment procedure. If you actually responded to my comment, instead of obsfucating, i would respond back! Don't you think that this conduct by the NACC is clearly a witch hunt? Using the same underhanded meeting tactics that they are claiming the senate leaders used in their impeachment bid. (Please do not respond with rice scheme and 700 billion - I counted at least 20 of your posts in the last 2 days making reference to this. You must have some other things to say about politics in Thailand) My excuses, I'm terribly sorry. I was under the impression that in topic on the RPPS, lack of answers, interesting youtube clips and impeachment I could get away with mentioning the RPPS, lack of answers, 700 billion Baht loss and so. Obviously and clear for all to see, I was sadly mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucec64 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 This article is clearly an attempt by the NACC to influence the impeachment proceedings. The leader of the OAG side of the joint panel just came out and said that this was news to him and that additional evidence and witnesses were required in order to decide on the case. (article in BKK) A clear witch hunt by the NACC. This whole process is a mockery of justice. A former PM refusing to be responsible, have knowledge, be accountable, answer questions is a mockery. BTW the Supreme Court for Political Office Holders seems the right court, wouldn't you say? PS the Pheu Thai filing a case against the NACC is pure coincidence and has nothing to do with unduly trying to influence the impeachment procedure. If you actually responded to my comment, instead of obsfucating, i would respond back! Don't you think that this conduct by the NACC is clearly a witch hunt? Using the same underhanded meeting tactics that they are claiming the senate leaders used in their impeachment bid. (Please do not respond with rice scheme and 700 billion - I counted at least 20 of your posts in the last 2 days making reference to this. You must have some other things to say about politics in Thailand) My excuses, I'm terribly sorry. I was under the impression that in topic on the RPPS, lack of answers, interesting youtube clips and impeachment I could get away with mentioning the RPPS, lack of answers, 700 billion Baht loss and so. Obviously and clear for all to see, I was sadly mistaken. 21 references now, but still no additional information Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbthailand Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Sorry if this has been posted before but I doubt if anyone else here is capable of thinking of it. Of course I could be wrong but I didn't read the whole thread. She goes to jail and she becomes the Nelson Mandela of Thailand. Agree with you that she cannot go to jail. my guess is that the powers that be want her to become a fugitive in exile who they can continue to demonize. Two birds with one stone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Sorry if this has been posted before but I doubt if anyone else here is capable of thinking of it. Of course I could be wrong but I didn't read the whole thread. She goes to jail and she becomes the Nelson Mandela of Thailand. Agree with you that she cannot go to jail. my guess is that the powers that be want her to become a fugitive in exile who they can continue to demonize. Two birds with one stone. Instead of 'cannot' it seems more a 'could, but probably will not'. After all the Amply Rich elite seldom do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Haggis Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 according to the other paper, the OGA has stated there is no such agreement... someone jumped the gun again?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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