Tourists are reporting a dramatic surge in harassment by Thai police

[Rumblecat]

Who is this Ian Lloyd Neubauer? Sounds like another sensationalist so-called poor man`s journalist trying to make a claim to fame now that Andrew Drummond is out of the way.

The story regarding his police detention and interrogation, I don`t believe.

He's a journalist who's worked for The Guardian, TIME, BBC etc etc. Which probably is the opposite of a poor man's journalist. And would be incredibly odd if he suddenly decided to fabricate an entire story for a respected publication like TIME- not only would that be unbelievably unprofessional, it would be career suicide.

So what's more likely- that the police do something that they've been accused of before in doing random drug tests and demanding payment for release (while withholding the evidence that the tests are clear)... or a journalist with a history of working for noted organisations suddenly goes rogue and puts his career on the line to fabricate an entire article..?

[gemguy]

I see the usual Bangkok bashers are out in force - I usually don't say this, but if you don't like it, you are free to go elsewhere and leave those of us who live here in peace.

As for whinging about litter fines - try doing it in Singapore where the police will certainly fine you, or for that matter in Australia when a gestapo officer notices what you are doing - you may get arrested, or fined, or both.

On the one hand we have the posters here complaining about litter fines and being targeted (yes, people who throw litter should be targeted), and yet we also have those saying that the city is dirty - again, I say go travel around Asia and do some true comparisons - India for example, or even Philippines, Indonesia, etc...

If the truth of the matter is that the litter police are really targeting farang, then maybe the farang need to stop dropping litter - it may not be "fair" (diddums), but as you are presumably older than 5, you should be adult enough to handle that, and realise that this is the world, and not everything is fair - get over it for goodness sake, and just enjoy the place, or enjoy leaving it if that's what you prefer... we don't mind.

Greer: you have some valid points but they do not really address the problem.

It is a money making scam of sorts that is perpetrated upon the foreigners...never the Thais.... who also smoke and drop their garbage and cigarette butts everywhere .

Why do they not have the same sort of enforcement operations in other parts of the city where Thai people are far more prevalent than any foreigners.

That is a self answering question...but still needs to be asked...at least for the ignorant.

The fine is 2000 baht...why not only 200 baht....or why not a warning and ask the foreigners to pick up the butt and discard it in the litter bin.

We all know why because the scam is a money making operation for the last 20 years....repeat 20 years, as in 20 years of extorting money out of foreigners for the mistake of dropping a butt on the ground.

Why do they not post signs everywhere warning people to not discard their cigarette butts on the street.

That would be the civil thing to do.

They do not do that because there would be no lucrative money to be made that way.

Why do they not have far more trash bins and or bins to discard the cigarettes butts into.

Because that would not be a money making lucrative way to make money off of foreigners.

There is a better approach to solving the problems ...but that would not make them money.

Cheers

2,000 baht is the maximum fine. I agree the penalties for littering should be more universally applied, but local/city authorities the world over apply on the spot fines to raise funds.

So why not raise the fine to 10,000 Baht maximum fine and really generate some on the spot fines to raise some funds.

I am not defending the smokers and or the people that litter.

Meantime we all know they do not care one bit about the cleanliness of the street while they do not do what they do out of civic pride and or a sincere effort to make the city cleaner.

We all know they only do it for the money while all the money that has ever been raised ( as you point out ) for the last 20 years has not benefitted anyone but those particular creeps while not one bit of the money goes towards some sort of real effort to resolve the problem in any logical way or means.

The money goes to a select group of officials and a small group of people that make a tidy some per month while pretending like they care about the problem while easily extorting money out of foreigners only while no one puts a stop to it while no one comes up with another more sensible way of addressing the problem.,,,....because that would not make those particular people any money and ruin their lucrative little operation.

How about they have people walking up and down the street handing out leaflets about littering and dropping cigarettes on the side walk and telling everyone to please do their part to keep the streets clean while they also enforce the rules and regulations upon the Thais also and fine them 2000 baht or more when they are seen littering and or throwing their cigarettes on the ground.

Wishful thinking...but it still needs to be reiterated.

Cheers and have yourself a smoke free day.

[gemguy]

I see the usual Bangkok bashers are out in force...

well, come on, it's fun. Bangkok is such a juicy target. Besides the police extortions and hassles in this article, there's bad air, rude locals, world-famous gridlock, jacked-up prices, angry crowds commandeering parts of dowtown every 2 years or so, floods, ..... shall I go on? Rarer, but not unheard of, is a local brothel owner hiring p.u. truck loads of thugs - who go late at night to smash and flatten a large square block of hundreds of vendors' stalls. When the ringleader is cornered by cops, he threatens to tell the world about paying bribes to head cops, so they let him go.

There's also the possibility he (the article writer) was in that bar buying drugs. If you've ever been around users and addicts, then you know they often times tell you half the story, especially when drugs are involved.

That's what bars are for (among other things): buying and selling drugs. What is the #1 most harmful drug in Thailand, and in the world? You get one guess.

That would be Heroin...at least for Thailand...until the place is over run with Crystal Meth and likes of those kinds of drugs...as Heroin still tops the list in every country.

[SoilSpoil]

I see the usual Bangkok bashers are out in force...

well, come on, it's fun. Bangkok is such a juicy target. Besides the police extortions and hassles in this article, there's bad air, rude locals, world-famous gridlock, jacked-up prices, angry crowds commandeering parts of dowtown every 2 years or so, floods, ..... shall I go on? Rarer, but not unheard of, is a local brothel owner hiring p.u. truck loads of thugs - who go late at night to smash and flatten a large square block of hundreds of vendors' stalls. When the ringleader is cornered by cops, he threatens to tell the world about paying bribes to head cops, so they let him go.

There's also the possibility he (the article writer) was in that bar buying drugs. If you've ever been around users and addicts, then you know they often times tell you half the story, especially when drugs are involved.

That's what bars are for (among other things): buying and selling drugs. What is the #1 most harmful drug in Thailand, and in the world? You get one guess.

That would be Heroin...at least for Thailand...until the place is over run with Crystal Meth and likes of those kinds of drugs...as Heroin still tops the list in every country.

He meant alcohol.

[sambum]

I was two times extorted (paying at least 1000THB more then officially) that I will only get 15 or 30 days instead of 60 days I should get officially...

This is madness, and I simply don't accept it as true.

How can you say "1000THB more than officially" when officially it's always zero charge.

Tell us which border you have experienced this, I have been through just about every border and airport many time in the last 14 years and it's never ever been suggested that there be any fee at all.h

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/791587-immigration-udon-big-changes

I also have another story, which I posted here. I entered the land border at Nong Khai last year. I should clearly get 30 days but the officer told me that he will give me only 15 days but if I paid (I think it was 500 Baht) he will give me 30 days.

You should read the Visa Section to read more stories like this. I met a nice belgium couple 2 week's ago. They are both retiring in Thailand. He told me horror stories of Koh Samaui Immigration. Officers demanding money and just called it a "new rule"

I believe it. The Samui immigration are literally a boil on the face of Thailand. They are the most heinous offenders. I was once asked to provide a new cell phone for all 9 of the employees to get a visa. They are infamous worldwide for this kind of nonsense. Immigration is out of control, basically. Likewise, the police. Do not pay either of them a bribe. Go to another immigration office. Tell the police or the security guard NO! Absolutely not. I wonder how many Thai people have been asked to pay the 2000 baht "butt" fine? I wonder how many said absolutely not. Probably most. But, I doubt any were asked to pay. The probably with Thailand is the utter lack of accountability. Shame on the general for not addressing that.

I remember a couple of months ago someone reported on here that they had tried to renew/extend their visa at Samui Immigration a couple of weeks early, and on being refused, stated that there was nothing in the Immigration Rules to justify their refusal, and was told by the Immigration Officer "We make our own rules here"!!!

[sambum]

I see the usual Bangkok bashers are out in force - I usually don't say this, but if you don't like it, you are free to go elsewhere and leave those of us who live here in peace.

As for whinging about litter fines - try doing it in Singapore where the police will certainly fine you, or for that matter in Australia when a gestapo officer notices what you are doing - you may get arrested, or fined, or both.

On the one hand we have the posters here complaining about litter fines and being targeted (yes, people who throw litter should be targeted), and yet we also have those saying that the city is dirty - again, I say go travel around Asia and do some true comparisons - India for example, or even Philippines, Indonesia, etc...

If the truth of the matter is that the litter police are really targeting farang, then maybe the farang need to stop dropping litter - it may not be "fair" (diddums), but as you are presumably older than 5, you should be adult enough to handle that, and realise that this is the world, and not everything is fair - get over it for goodness sake, and just enjoy the place, or enjoy leaving it if that's what you prefer... we don't mind.

Greer: you have some valid points but they do not really address the problem.

It is a money making scam of sorts that is perpetrated upon the foreigners...never the Thais.... who also smoke and drop their garbage and cigarette butts everywhere .

Why do they not have the same sort of enforcement operations in other parts of the city where Thai people are far more prevalent than any foreigners.

That is a self answering question...but still needs to be asked...at least for the ignorant.

The fine is 2000 baht...why not only 200 baht....or why not a warning and ask the foreigners to pick up the butt and discard it in the litter bin.

We all know why because the scam is a money making operation for the last 20 years....repeat 20 years, as in 20 years of extorting money out of foreigners for the mistake of dropping a butt on the ground.

Why do they not post signs everywhere warning people to not discard their cigarette butts on the street.

That would be the civil thing to do.

They do not do that because there would be no lucrative money to be made that way.

Why do they not have far more trash bins and or bins to discard the cigarettes butts into.

Because that would not be a money making lucrative way to make money off of foreigners.

There is a better approach to solving the problems ...but that would not make them money.

Cheers

There are many signs warning you that the fine is 2000 baht for discarding cigarette butts on the street, and if you do so and get caught - "a fair cop!". However, I take your point regarding trash bins. I was walking down Sukhumvit about 3 years ago and was smoking a cigarette. I must have looked for a trash bin for 5 or 10 minutes to no avail, and in the end, looked round, couldn't see any police around, and put it down a drain.

[brewsterbudgen]

I see the usual Bangkok bashers are out in force - I usually don't say this, but if you don't like it, you are free to go elsewhere and leave those of us who live here in peace.

As for whinging about litter fines - try doing it in Singapore where the police will certainly fine you, or for that matter in Australia when a gestapo officer notices what you are doing - you may get arrested, or fined, or both.

On the one hand we have the posters here complaining about litter fines and being targeted (yes, people who throw litter should be targeted), and yet we also have those saying that the city is dirty - again, I say go travel around Asia and do some true comparisons - India for example, or even Philippines, Indonesia, etc...

If the truth of the matter is that the litter police are really targeting farang, then maybe the farang need to stop dropping litter - it may not be "fair" (diddums), but as you are presumably older than 5, you should be adult enough to handle that, and realise that this is the world, and not everything is fair - get over it for goodness sake, and just enjoy the place, or enjoy leaving it if that's what you prefer... we don't mind.

Greer: you have some valid points but they do not really address the problem.

It is a money making scam of sorts that is perpetrated upon the foreigners...never the Thais.... who also smoke and drop their garbage and cigarette butts everywhere .

Why do they not have the same sort of enforcement operations in other parts of the city where Thai people are far more prevalent than any foreigners.

That is a self answering question...but still needs to be asked...at least for the ignorant.

The fine is 2000 baht...why not only 200 baht....or why not a warning and ask the foreigners to pick up the butt and discard it in the litter bin.

We all know why because the scam is a money making operation for the last 20 years....repeat 20 years, as in 20 years of extorting money out of foreigners for the mistake of dropping a butt on the ground.

Why do they not post signs everywhere warning people to not discard their cigarette butts on the street.

That would be the civil thing to do.

They do not do that because there would be no lucrative money to be made that way.

Why do they not have far more trash bins and or bins to discard the cigarettes butts into.

Because that would not be a money making lucrative way to make money off of foreigners.

There is a better approach to solving the problems ...but that would not make them money.

Cheers

There are many signs warning you that the fine is 2000 baht for discarding cigarette butts on the street, and if you do so and get caught - "a fair cop!". However, I take your point regarding trash bins. I was walking down Sukhumvit about 3 years ago and was smoking a cigarette. I must have looked for a trash bin for 5 or 10 minutes to no avail, and in the end, looked round, couldn't see any police around, and put it down a drain.

There are always bins outside 7-11s and Family Marts. Last time I was at Phom Phrong, a prime "litter cop" area, they'd put yellow wheelie bins along Sukhumvit, towards Asok, every 100 metres or so.

[spidermike007]

I was two times extorted (paying at least 1000THB more then officially) that I will only get 15 or 30 days instead of 60 days I should get officially...

This is madness, and I simply don't accept it as true.

How can you say "1000THB more than officially" when officially it's always zero charge.

Tell us which border you have experienced this, I have been through just about every border and airport many time in the last 14 years and it's never ever been suggested that there be any fee at all.h

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/791587-immigration-udon-big-changes

I also have another story, which I posted here. I entered the land border at Nong Khai last year. I should clearly get 30 days but the officer told me that he will give me only 15 days but if I paid (I think it was 500 Baht) he will give me 30 days.

You should read the Visa Section to read more stories like this. I met a nice belgium couple 2 week's ago. They are both retiring in Thailand. He told me horror stories of Koh Samaui Immigration. Officers demanding money and just called it a "new rule"

I believe it. The Samui immigration are literally a boil on the face of Thailand. They are the most heinous offenders. I was once asked to provide a new cell phone for all 9 of the employees to get a visa. They are infamous worldwide for this kind of nonsense. Immigration is out of control, basically. Likewise, the police. Do not pay either of them a bribe. Go to another immigration office. Tell the police or the security guard NO! Absolutely not. I wonder how many Thai people have been asked to pay the 2000 baht "butt" fine? I wonder how many said absolutely not. Probably most. But, I doubt any were asked to pay. The probably with Thailand is the utter lack of accountability. Shame on the general for not addressing that.

I remember a couple of months ago someone reported on here that they had tried to renew/extend their visa at Samui Immigration a couple of weeks early, and on being refused, stated that there was nothing in the Immigration Rules to justify their refusal, and was told by the Immigration Officer "We make our own rules here"!!!

Samui is, and has always been an outlaw land that is treated as a bastard child, by both surat province and the central govt. It has resulted in this kind of unaccountability, on the part of the immigration, police, mayors office, etc. They do as they please, and they know that nobody will do anything, especially the general. It is pretty obnoxious. Kind of a sad, neglected island. Same goes for phangan, and murder island too. Too bad. If anybody cared, it could have been very different.

[61guitarman61]

Bangkok police harass foreigner who writes about it in TIME

By Coconuts Bangkok

BANGKOK: -- Although anecdotal evidence suggests police harassment of foreigners has been on the decline, a Time magazine contributor isn’t convinced.

In a personal account published online yesterday, Ian Lloyd Neubauer tells of the miserable Christmas Eve he experienced last month at the hands of Bangkok police.

It’s a one-sided tale but seems consistent with reports of systematic harassment during the past few months which burst into the public sphere.

Neubauer writes that he was stopped by police while leaving a rooftop bar on Silom Road at 2am:

Full story: http://bangkok.coconuts.co//2015/01/21/bangkok-police-harass-foreigner-who-writes-about-it-time

-- Coconuts Bangkok 2015-01-21

http://time.com/3674200/thailand-tourism-police-corruption-shakedown-extortion/

[hughben]

Do the rent a goon litter cops give out receipts when they fine? Those of you that do get approached, ask for a receipt and take a photo of them. Or take a photo of them no matter what, or better yet, film it.

What would happen if you just walked away? If they laid a finger on you, wouldn't that constitute assault?

[brewsterbudgen]

Do the rent a goon litter cops give out receipts when they fine? Those of you that do get approached, ask for a receipt and take a photo of them. Or take a photo of them no matter what, or better yet, film it.

What would happen if you just walked away? If they laid a finger on you, wouldn't that constitute assault?

Yes, I believe receipts are issued. I shouldn't think there will be a problem with photographing them; many have done. There are also a few YouTube videos.

Also, some people claim to have ignored them and walked away. They can summon the police, but I don't know how often they bother to do this.

Give it a go and post your experience on the appropriate thread!

[carter1882]

I was glad to see that so many posters on here rejected this article. Whilst there have clearly been rogue police in operation, this story is so full of factual errors and discredited sources that it is worthless. I particularly enjoyed the fantasy about the bartender handcuffed to the chair having his shins kicked in for complaining about the police stealing booze. There is no way on earth that a Thai in that position would be anything but fawning and it also begs the question, could this Aussie journalist understand enough Thai in a violent situation to know what was really going on. Of course not, his knowledge of local matters is clearly minimal or even non-existent. Rogue policemen will be roped in by honest colleagues or other authorities....damage to tourism just cannot be allowed to happen as too many of the wealthy have too much vested interest in it.

[fakser]

Hey fellows. Has anyone put a gun to your head, forcing you to live in this "horrible" land? So many complaints in this forum from people who won't live anywhere elsewhere in the world....

[hawker9000]

Hey fasker. Has anyone put a gun to your head, forcing you to read and post in this thread?