Bali Nine: Australian Andrew Chan on Indonesian death row loses clemency bid

[samran]

On this one I think the AFP have blood on their hands of the stories are true that one parents of the nine tipped them off thinking they'd be arrested on return to Australia.

Nonsense Samran.

Nobody at the AFP forced these two idiots to do what they did.

The AFP should be applauded for their good work and the 5 million dollars that would of been wasted on the Bali 9 housing them in Aussie jails for the last 10 years assuming they would of served any time at all.

INDONESIA Please execute this vermin asap. Please allow this to happen very quickly as we are all sick of hearing about it.

Australia Please stop wasting tax payer money on these evil convicted scum bags. Send Indonesia two rounds and ask them to expedite proceedings.

Not nonsense.

Australia doesn't condone or support the death penalty in anyway.

If true, the AFP broke with policy. If these guys were arrested in australia and had to be extradited back to Indonesia, they wouldn't be going anywhere unless the death penalty was off the table.

You and I may disagree on the issue of the death penalty and that is another debate.

Fact is though, on this one, the AFP ballsed it up.

[neverdie]

On this one I think the AFP have blood on their hands of the stories are true that one parents of the nine tipped them off thinking they'd be arrested on return to Australia.

Nonsense Samran.

Nobody at the AFP forced these two idiots to do what they did.

The AFP should be applauded for their good work and the 5 million dollars that would of been wasted on the Bali 9 housing them in Aussie jails for the last 10 years assuming they would of served any time at all.

INDONESIA Please execute this vermin asap. Please allow this to happen very quickly as we are all sick of hearing about it.

Australia Please stop wasting tax payer money on these evil convicted scum bags. Send Indonesia two rounds and ask them to expedite proceedings.

Not nonsense.

Australia doesn't condone or support the death penalty in anyway.

If true, the AFP broke with policy. If these guys were arrested in australia and had to be extradited back to Indonesia, they wouldn't be going anywhere unless the death penalty was off the table.

You and I may disagree on the issue of the death penalty and that is another debate.

Fact is though, on this one, the AFP ballsed it up.

My understanding is that back in 2005, the AFP Policy went along the lines of;

In such cases of police-to-police assistance involving countries where the death penalty applies, the AFP is guided by this document which states: Australia will exercise discretion when considering requests for mutual assistance.

Having said that, it is a policy of the 'Australian Government' that in cases whee the death penalty is in play then there will be no cooperation.

In 2005, the guideline was somewhat ambiguous & has since been reviewed. This is standard in a country that cares more about protecting criminals than victims, something which we see time and time again.

Also, furthermore, the then Commissioner of the AFP made various statements regarding this unapologetic for the action taken by federal agents and no discipline was taken against them. There was nothing ballsed up. End of story. The ballsed up bit only exists in some peoples minds.

Of course in the minds of people that are worried about "offenders rights" as opposed to what we should be worrying about there's a massive problem, but not everyone sees it that way.

As I said before, those agents that acted in that case did really well, they probably saved the Australian tax payer a small fortune, money which could be spent on things far more worthy than these fools and criminals.

You are right though, it won't happen again as it's not 'Politically comfy', as I call it.

IMO, A job well done by the AFP.

I don't like Indonesia nor what it stands for but it's not all bad and I applaud them for sticking to their guns (pardon the pun) on this one.

It's no news flash people, get involved in Importing or exporting drugs from Indonesia and you run the risk of execution by a bullet to the heart, it's been this way before these two fools were even born, they ran the gauntlet and it didn't pay. Ta ta !

[OMGImInPattaya]

Not really fair when that Corbin chick got off...she should have lost her head as well!

[catmaninoz]

Good riddance.

And if it was your son? (Though I doubt you have children) Remember something about those without sin and casting the first stone! No one forces these people to take drugs, they do it in most cases on their own, shooting the guy is hardly the answer. You will probably be whining on the other forum about the guy that shot the Soi Dog!

But if it was your son that died of a drug overdose thanks to these greedy smugglers, maybe you would be singing from a different song sheet? Good riddence.

Or maybe it would be the users fault for not dosing correctly.

People need to realise that dealers and mules are not responsible for what users do with their own bodies.

If people stopped taking the easy way out and blaming scapegoats, and advocated personal responsibility, the world would be a much better place.

If you die with a needle in your arm, its your fault! Not the middle mans!

[catmaninoz]

Not really fair when that Corbin chick got off...she should have lost her head as well!

For weed?

Lame troll.

[MrWorldwide]

Not really fair when that Corbin chick got off...she should have lost her head as well!

Firstly, her name is Corby and the death penalty was never on the table. She remains on parole on Bali under strict conditions and any money she stands to make from media deals back in Oz will be subjected to scrutiny from the authorities under Proceeds of Crime legislation. Anyone who considers 9 years in Kerobokan and the ongoing threat of constant harrassment from the media 'getting off' probably needs to consider how little time she would have done in Australia. Her family are the only winners in this, just as they would have been if the drugs had been removed from her bag in Sydney - epic stupidity from go to whoa but she didnt deserve the firing squad for her part in their hillbilly empire.

If you want to talk about someone who got off - albeit on a considerably less serious charge - this one still takes the cake for mine. The media footage of her in a hijab was hilarious. I'm guessing there havent been a whole lot of trips to the mosque since her return from Indonesia. At least we were spared the sight of Corby's sister screaming at the judges.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_Leslie

[draftvader]

A flame post and response removed. Please be civil with each other even if you disagree.

[Headgame]

No Demand = No Supply

Governments and the hard core right wingers always want to give the users a pass while perpetuating the myth that the suppliers create the demand. and therefore deserve death. If you started putting all the users to death you'd soon see the suppliers gone for lack of business.

[luckynero]

Good riddance.

And if it was your son? (Though I doubt you have children) Remember something about those without sin and casting the first stone! No one forces these people to take drugs, they do it in most cases on their own, shooting the guy is hardly the answer. You will probably be whining on the other forum about the guy that shot the Soi Dog!

And what if it was ur son dying of heroin?!? Good riddance indeed! Before u start dealing lethal heroin, think about the risks and laws that countries offer...

[neverdie]

Not really fair when that Corbin chick got off...she should have lost her head as well!

Corby.

They don't take heads. It's a bullet to the heart, or somewhere close to it.

[transam]

This scum KNOW the risks attached for the big money of their chosen trade. In fact the people they "deal" with there is also a risk of being taken out by them.

Folk should stop whining about the demise of these shits. Am sure if these shits got your kids hooked on drugs YOU would want to waste them.

[luckynero]

This scum KNOW the risks attached for the big money of their chosen trade. In fact the people they "deal" with there is also a risk of being taken out by them.

Folk should stop whining about the demise of these shits. Am sure if these shits got your kids hooked on drugs YOU would want to waste them.

Right on!! Waste them

[catmaninoz]

This scum KNOW the risks attached for the big money of their chosen trade. In fact the people they "deal" with there is also a risk of being taken out by them.

Folk should stop whining about the demise of these shits. Am sure if these shits got your kids hooked on drugs YOU would want to waste them.

Mules do not "hook kids on drugs".

[transam]

This scum KNOW the risks attached for the big money of their chosen trade. In fact the people they "deal" with there is also a risk of being taken out by them.

Folk should stop whining about the demise of these shits. Am sure if these shits got your kids hooked on drugs YOU would want to waste them.

Mules do not "hook kids on drugs".

Rolox, they are part of the chain...................They know what they are doing for cash...........

Edited January 23, 2015 by transam

[sanuk711]

In my opinion they are absolutely correct to do so and I applaude them for actually following through with their laws and not going weak in the knees and caving to silly international pressure.After all,even according to Buddhist philosophy,the spirit can never die so they will just be forced to go to their next body and life so since they wasted this one they can go ahead and start fresh one and hopefully they will remember their punishment in their subconscious and make better choices next time,in the next life.Westerners seem to be so dull headed that they cannot seem to grasp the fact that no-one ever dies really-death only means going to another life,but thoise same silly Westerners always think of themselves as very advanced and scientific.Yet any and every person in Thailand , farmer or street cleaner,knows that the spirit never dies but just goes on to another life.............that is real and useful knowledge.Cheers

.

I think you may have your countries or religions confused gosip108

Indonesia practices Islam--& is one of the largest Muslim country's in the world.......................................

There is less than 1% of Buddhist there.

[NickJ]

Well....what damage and hell would 8k of heroin have done to Australia? How many lives would have been ruined?

What you dont see in the media regarding AndrewChan is that while he was masterminding the Bali9 deal. He also had two underage Aussie girls in Hong Kong ready to fly into Oz. They both did close to ten years each. They were 15 and 17 if I remember. Also one of the Bali 9 had woeked for Chan before. So I guess one could also ask how much damage has he been responsible for?

[catmaninoz]

This scum KNOW the risks attached for the big money of their chosen trade. In fact the people they "deal" with there is also a risk of being taken out by them.

Folk should stop whining about the demise of these shits. Am sure if these shits got your kids hooked on drugs YOU would want to waste them.

Mules do not "hook kids on drugs".

Rolox, they are part of the chain...................They know what they are doing for cash...........

So why does the chain even exist?

Because of the users.

Heal the users and there is no need for the chain.

Remove the product and the users simply find alternatives.

And around and around we go.

Killing mules stops nothing. Absolutely nothing.

All it does is satisfy the bloodthirsty fools.

[transam]

This scum KNOW the risks attached for the big money of their chosen trade. In fact the people they "deal" with there is also a risk of being taken out by them.

Folk should stop whining about the demise of these shits. Am sure if these shits got your kids hooked on drugs YOU would want to waste them.

Mules do not "hook kids on drugs".

Rolox, they are part of the chain...................They know what they are doing for cash...........

So why does the chain even exist?

Because of the users.

Heal the users and there is no need for the chain.

Remove the product and the users simply find alternatives.

And around and around we go.

Killing mules stops nothing. Absolutely nothing.

All it does is satisfy the bloodthirsty fools.

Users exist because of those getting them hooked. Big money for suppliers and mules........This shit peddle to school kids to keep the cash flow going. Low life coming out the woodwork NOT to work, just prey on anyone who is gulable..............If you can't see that then I feel sorry for you.

[NickJ]

Heal the users!!! Yeah Bro on your dime. Invite em all over....sit in a circle. Perhaps have a speaking feather.....Lets heal all of them...but it the meantime hide all your valubles and triple lock your doors. ....

[Mudcrab]

There is no doubt these two, out of the total gang of nine, who were involved in this well planned adventure (up until one of the Ozzie fathers told the police about the situation) will be shot.

Hopefully it may even be this weekend - Australia Day on Sunday.

BUT I am a little concerned about the Indonesian double standards.

We must acknowledge that it is the most populous Muslim nation on the planet and they have their own set of laws.

However, as I type this, there are many Indonesian convicts who have, or will soon be saying goodbye to their prison cells having been released after doing their time in relation to many acts of extreme violence (i.e. indiscriminate cowardly bombs in the usual Islamic extremist manner) resulting in hundreds dead and injured.

To actually kill or injure people via bombs- a few years inside.

Have the potential to kill people via drugs - death sentence

The Australian Government has issued new warnings for travel to Indonesia as a result of this.

The "Boys are Back in Town" - - - - look out westerners in Indonesia.

Edited January 23, 2015 by Mudcrab

[catmaninoz]

Heal the users!!! Yeah Bro on your dime. Invite em all over....sit in a circle. Perhaps have a speaking feather.....Lets heal all of them...but it the meantime hide all your valubles and triple lock your doors. ....

There are many treatments available and not all are expensive but they are certainly suppressed.

Without the consumption side of the chain going, there will be no need for manufacture and distribution.

Too many vested interests in power for any healing to occur.

[LivinginKata]

Off topic posts being removed.

[catmaninoz]

This scum KNOW the risks attached for the big money of their chosen trade. In fact the people they "deal" with there is also a risk of being taken out by them.

Folk should stop whining about the demise of these shits. Am sure if these shits got your kids hooked on drugs YOU would want to waste them.

Mules do not "hook kids on drugs".

Rolox, they are part of the chain...................They know what they are doing for cash...........

So why does the chain even exist?

Because of the users.

Heal the users and there is no need for the chain.

Remove the product and the users simply find alternatives.

And around and around we go.

Killing mules stops nothing. Absolutely nothing.

All it does is satisfy the bloodthirsty fools.

Users exist because of those getting them hooked. Big money for suppliers and mules........This shit peddle to school kids to keep the cash flow going. Low life coming out the woodwork NOT to work, just prey on anyone who is gulable..............If you can't see that then I feel sorry for you.

Users and addicts exist for many reasons.

Read this.

http://www.the-open-mind.com/the-likely-cause-of-addiction-has-been-discovered-and-it-is-not-what-you-think/ Edited January 25, 2015 by Scott

[NickJ]

Wipe out dealers addicts...everyone invovled.....for F---ks sake look at Singapore....they pretty much did it.

No Tolerance......I have no doubt in my mind if I were to be able to sit down with Andrew he would be pleasant and remorseful.....This is not about him....its what the Govt's of the world need to do about drugs............sadly....Andrew must die. And so he should......I dont think rhere is any orher way......Yet.

[NickJ]

I advocate that all Governments adapt a zero policy for drugs for Ten years.....deal and die.........in the meantine ........let the wannabe John quick money Gottis dig the graves.......

[catmaninoz]

I would advocate zero tolerance too, if we start with outlawing alcohol, nicotine and caffeine.

See how we go from there.

[thaibeachlovers]

It's not a question of smuggling IN or OUT of the country. Was it okay to smuggle drugs OUT of Indonesia. As much as I do not wish anyone to go through this terrible experience, one can only imagine the untold destruction and pain that the 8 kg hard core drugs would have brought to innocent people and their families in Australia. US still has capital punishment in some States and the law of the country needs to be understood and respected. Indonesia is imposing this harsh rule to everyone irrigardless of where one comes from.

I by no means advocate the use of heroine and I think those who deal it should be punished ... although not by death. Using your logic, you could say the same thing about those who sell alcohol and the "untold destruction and pain" that alcohol abuse causes to many more millions of people world wide than does heroine. Ditto tobacco. A slower more drawn-out process perhaps, but destruction/pain and death none the less.

It's not the drugs per se, but the fact that someone goes to a foreign country and breaks a law knowing that the penalty is death if caught. If they were actually guilty, I can't feel any sympathy for them.

However, death is probably a more humane end than living in an Indonesian jail for the rest of their lives, so if punishment is the aim, a life sentence would better fit the bill.

Remember the American vandal that defaced cars in Singapore and got the cane for it? Even the US president got into the act, but Singapore still caned him, and quite rightly too.

[DLock]

Or be lucky enough to be the parent of a 20 year old drug addicted daughter that just died from a heroin over dose. They knew the deal from the very get go.....Some win...some lose. You wanna live a thug life? your choice. But don't cry if things don't swing in your favor.

One thing I do like is a man of his word....He warned them, they gambled and he made good on his promise!

Craig Well said

I am the brother of a 21 year old who lost his life to a heroin overdose. He knew what the consequences could be but took the gamble. He was a good kid who made a mistake which cost him his life. In the same way these two took a gamble knowing full well what the consequences could be. Forget alcohol and smoking deaths, we know that happens but this story is about heroin and its about laws of another country which are well known

Sorry for your loss Chris.

But I agree with you. This is not about smoking, or alcohol, making drugs legal or the severity of the punishment. Save that for another thread.

It's about kids who took a gamble. A gamble to smuggle drugs in or out of a country for a quick payday, where the penalty for doing so is death. There is no confusion on the penalty.

Spare me the rhetoric and the emotion. They played. They lost. They pay the penalty.

It's really that simple.

[OZEMADE]

I would advocate zero tolerance too, if we start with outlawing alcohol, nicotine and caffeine.

See how we go from there.

Ah there is plenty of tolerance for alcohol, nicotine and caffeine, especially as they are all legal substances.

Although we have no sales after 2am in Sydney for alcohol, we also have plenty of warnings on TV re one punch drunks can get 10 yrs to life for the fatal punch. Adds for drink driving in almost all country's that allow grog. Smoking well mainly medical adds and problems. But still all legal substances.

You should possibly go to the Emergency section in St Vincent's Hospital Sydney, any night and see that most of the problems coming in are illegal drug related.

[thaibeachlovers]

I would advocate zero tolerance too, if we start with outlawing alcohol, nicotine and caffeine.

See how we go from there.

Ah there is plenty of tolerance for alcohol, nicotine and caffeine, especially as they are all legal substances.

Although we have no sales after 2am in Sydney for alcohol, we also have plenty of warnings on TV re one punch drunks can get 10 yrs to life for the fatal punch. Adds for drink driving in almost all country's that allow grog. Smoking well mainly medical adds and problems. But still all legal substances.

You should possibly go to the Emergency section in St Vincent's Hospital Sydney, any night and see that most of the problems coming in are illegal drug related.

I think you miss his point, is that if certain drugs that cause harm are outlawed with zero tolerance, ALL drugs that cause harm should be outlawed with zero tolerance.

I myself think ALL drugs should be legal and available over the counter. Only the consequences of taking them should be criminalised ie if one murders by driving under the influence ( it's not manslaughter- it's murder ), one should go to jail for life.

Lets stop the nanny statism and let big people do what they want, but be responsible for the outcome.