Crackdown On "farang" Teachers

[Nemo.]

"or stop issuing visas to certain countries" ?????

oh please please please stop issuing visas to Americans. All those whining George Bush intelects

I suppose they will ban a few countries that have a few people here. But I work in a place full of these minorities inc my wife. Oooopppsss there goes my schools English department and me...........

Update:

Foreign Ministry can help screen foreign teachers

BANGKOK: -- To avert potential 'bad cases' from occurring, Thailand's Foreign Ministry is ready to cooperate with schools nationwide to screen prospective foreign teachers before they come to Thailand.

Checking the qualifications of foreign teachers before recruiting them to work for their schools is a high-profile concern in the wake of the case of an American teacher charged with murdering a six-year-old girl in the United States 10 years ago, Foreign Minister Dr. Kantathi Suphamongkhon said Tuesday.

Dr. Kantathi said the ministry has always exchanged information with other countries on blacklisted people or international criminals, and that the ministry was pleased to cooperate with schools scrutinise the backgrounds of foreign job applicants for potential criminal records.

"I recommend that schools deliberately scrutinise the qualifications of foreign teachers," Dr. Kantathi said, "particularly language teachers."

The foreign minister said that prospective employers should always check with stated past employers and references the applicants mention in their resumes, he said.

"Today is age of information technology (IT)," Dr. Kanthati said, "so schools can use the Internet to contact schools or institutions abroad directly.

Dr. Kantathi ruled out accusation that Thailand was too lax in issuing visas, saying that he considered the visa issue one of his main policies.

He said there was no need for the government to review its visa issuance policy or stop issuing visas to certain countries, but that discussions should be held among agencies concerned to strictly monitor immigration procedures to prevent the entry of inappropriate persons.

Dr. Kantathi's remarks followed last Wednesday's arrest of John Mark Karr, 41, who had worked as a teacher of several international schools in Thailand.

Mr. Karr faces charges of first-degree murder, kidnapping and child sexual assault in connection with the 1996 killing of the 6-year-old child beauty queen, JonBenet Ramsey. He was deported to the United States on Sunday.

--TNA 2006-08-22

[wilko]

On a previous Posting on this site I seem to recall a comment re the foreign teaching ferternity here in Bangkok and it went somthing like this.

50% of all foreign Teachers do not hold a work Permit.

Out of the remaining 50% half of them hold a fake Diploma

Which leaves 25% legal.

This I would assume would lead to 75% of the current Teachers being relieved of their positions under the proposed new regulations. Again assuming this were the case Bangkok would only have a quatrer of the original foreign Teaching staff , hence a need for a large influx os suitable Teachers.

The mind now bogles as to where these Teachers are going to be recruted from as the salary being offered at this moment in time in most cases is a little on the low side.

And also there is the problem of job losses for the fake diploma venders as the demand for such items would slow down in the Ko-San Road, and let us not forget the blow to the economy as thousands of Good Teachers seek new horizens in lands not to far off.

The major casualty in this issue are the students themselves, perhaps the education ministry is about to shoot itself in the foot. as it stands the teaching of Eglish works fairly well, and any Teaching organization that is up to speed soon sorts out the good from the bad.

Breconman

this can only be guesswork.

I'm suprised at how many people confess to having a Koh San BA though.

[brahmburgers]

Apparently there are quite a few people posting here who regard themselves as "teachers", yet have no teaching degree/qualification.

Why is it so difficult to understand that if you want to teach you need the proper qualifications? and I don't mean the Kao-Sarn type of degree!

Especially when it comes to teaching children, knowledge about a language is just not enough. A proper education in pedagogical science is an absolute must!

opalhort

A teaching degree does not a good teacher make. More important is whether English is the teacher's native language. Next in importance is whether the teacher has a propensity and alacrity for teaching. Someone with a fistful of degrees might make a crumby teacher and could just as likely be lusting after students as any other teaching candidate - Thai or farang.

The original news item in this thread mentioned the added scrutiny will apply to farang "applying" for teaching jobs. What about the current teachers, both Thai and foreign, who have dubious qualifications and lust after students? Along with or instead of background checks - a more effective way to gauge teaching adeptness is to simply ask fellow teachers and student leaders about the current teacher's ability and moral terpitude.

[I wonder]

The degree check pre-dates the criminal record check. The point here is the level of dishonest with some people. First you lie about your degree--which basically cheapens everyones degree, then they find out later that you are a criminal.

The need is for both things to be done. Then everyone is at least on the up-&-up.

Who does the background checks on Farang teachers?? Surely if the person concerned is working without a work permit etc., then it won't be the Thai authorities.

I agree that dishonesty is the issue, these are children we are talking about.

[richard10365]

I guess it all boils down to how you play the game. If you want to play with the Thai's then you have to follow their rules. You have to be a qualified professional.

I worked on nuclear weapons, was a Patriot Missile System repairer, U. S. Army instructor (2 years), army recruiter, worked in the U.S. Army's Los Angeles advertising and public affairs section, attended 3 army leadership schools and retired after 20 years from the U.S. Army.

I was responsible for the maintenance of over a billion baht worth of equipment but since I don't have a degree I'm not qualified to teach English to Thai students.

Thats ok, why would I want to bother myself with lesson plans, learning outcomes, the 5 themes they want their students to learn or grading each student k, a, p. I'm sure all the qualified teachers will tell you thats their reason for living.

Oh well. I guess I will just sit around and watch the grass grow and collect my pension check. But if anyone has a need for an x-nuke/missile tech and can get me a work permit let me know.

[Kobintra]

In my opinion, the best way to protect our children from these sick individuals is to educate the children on the subject and do our best to let them know that if they are ever in a situation which makes them feel uncomfortable they can come to us and tell us without fear of being punished in any way.

I feel this way because I belieive that some of the worst offenders will never be caught. They are very committed to their obsessions and they use this to motivate them to obtain degrees and anything else in order to get closer to their prey. They choose their victims wisely and most would be considered to be safe to everyone except for their victims.

Therefore no matter how strict the rules are these people will still be out there and it will not be any easier to catch them. On the other hand if we educate our children we can greatly reduce the chances of them being a victim of these individuals.

My wife teaches nursery students (currently a degree is not required) and this year her school hired several teachers from the USA all of which are certified and highly qualified as far as credentials are concerned. One of the parents is quite upset because one of these teachers informed her that her child has ADHD. the child is only 3 years old and has only been with this teacher for 1 week. Experts on this condition agree that diagnosis of this disorder cannot be made until at least the age of 5. My wife doesn't have a degree but she knows alot more about these types of issues than the qualified, certified, degree holders who approach her for help on a daily basis. Of course, having 3 school age daughters is helpful but she also loves to teach and has never had a complaint from a parent. I am currently researching ways for her to obtain a degree but i know that we won't be able to afford it any time soon. It would be a shame if she were not allowed to teach anymore.

I feel that being involved with your childrens education and forming a strong relationship with them is the best defense by far. Because laws and rules will be broken and especially in thailand where enforcement is only used when something happens that might tarnish its image. An example of this is the law banning the display of cigarettes. I recently noticed that all the small shops in my area have begun to display them just like they did before the law was in effect.

[spectrum]

niteowl :

I understand what you're saying, but I don't quite agree. From what I've read, Karr was arrested for five counts of possession of child pornography (all misdemeanors, legally, the same level of offense as overtime parking.) He was able to post a bond, pending his hearing, and was told to avoid places where children congregate (such as beaches, parks, schools, etc.) He violated the terms of his bond, and subsequently fled the state before his court hearing.

I think the nature of his offense, and his actions after his arrest, should have warranted revoking his passport. After all, we're not talking about overtime parking - we're talking about a person who fantasizes (at least!) about abusing children. Probably, he chose teaching as a profession, precisely because it would put him in touch with prospective victims. He certainly didn't seem to have any abilities as a teacher, nor did he have the proper qualifications.

I think it's ironic that the USA berates her neighbor, Canada, over being "too lax" about who they let into their country (since, once in Canada, they would have easy access to the USA), while at the same time, the USA is lax about who they let out of the country.

Indeed.

There were huge red flags and alarm bells there. I think the USA's responsibility is at least as great as, if not greater than, that of Thailand and other countries where Mr K lived and worked.

One has to wonder where his income was coming from all this time, too.

Why was he not being watched more carefully ?

One gets the distinct impression that the USA did not care once he was off their turf.

Edited August 23, 2006 by spectrum

[sriracha john]

Exploiting the system, in the guise of 'ajarn'

What do a disgraced former US state senator, an octogenarian Nazi sympathiser and an Arizona highway patrol officer have in common? They are all teaching English in Thailand, of course. The profession of teaching English in Asia attracts the strangest people. The flotsam and jetsam of the West, many of these ne'er-do-wells wash up on the shoreline of the Third World looking to reinvent themselves like the Count of Monte Cristo, or to champion a cause celebre like Lawrence of Arabia.

Some are undischarged bankrupts fleeing creditors, fugitives from justice, disgraced or convicted malcontents, religious missionaries, errant husbands, asylum-seekers (and those recently discharged from asylums), crusaders and, occasionally, teachers _ with fake university degrees, of course.

This is the state of the industry throughout Thailand. And sometimes, you can find yourself sharing an office with Hannibal Lector.

The process of screening applicants for teaching appointments in Thailand has always been open to abuse, exploitation and identity fraud.

While most educational institutions employ foreign nationals from Australia, Canada, the United Kingdom and the United States without checking the bona fides of academic credentials, going overseas to work has also been a convenient way to escape the indiscretions and convictions of a former life in the West.

As English is the new lingua franca of a global world, there is a burgeoning demand for native English speakers to teach English in educational institutions at all levels across Thailand.

The interview and selection process is perfunctory and typically is the responsibility of non-native speakers, and so anyone who looks like a teacher in what is largely a presentation culture, is assured of employment.

While it is well-known that thousands of reproduction artworks of European masters are created annually in Thailand, fake university and college degrees may also be bought on Khao Sarn road in Bangkok.

In the past century when Christendom was carried like a torch to enlighten the dark continents, missionaries and teachers were discovered looting national treasures, excavating and smuggling archaeological artifacts, exploiting the indigenous population or establishing private kingdoms with themselves as the self-appointed monarchs.

During times of military conflict some teachers were even commissioned as intelligence operatives or became correspondents from besieged cities or nations erupting in civil unrest. Today, with an absence of such interesting opportunities, English-language teachers abroad have turned to waging their own war against professional colleagues, exerting their own petty tyrannies on students, exploring a malignant neuroses, indulging a private obsession or simply experiencing the full dress rehearsal of a sordid sexual fetish.

Just like the former US state senator who was repeatedly caught and convicted for drunk driving and beating his girlfriend. When he carried a loaded revolver into the state legislature he was finally expelled from office. At the height of his power, white racist supremacist and militia members rallied at his demagogic speeches against minorities and welfare recipients, but most recently he has found himself teaching English at a university in Thailand.

He was also responsible for pushing through a US state senate a highly controversial bill to introduce and maintain a public database of previously convicted sex offenders.

I met him in a go-go bar in Phuket. It was the quip about the human race being a plague on the earth and that only through a systematic programme of racial purification would we survive as a species, that made me realise he was not on a mercy mission in the Third World.

He was last seen teaching a transsexual prostitute to sing the Star Spangled Banner in an area notorious for homosexual encounters with young men who had had a sex change operation in Bangkok.

Then there was the teacher at a prominent language school in Phuket, who was recently exposed as a confidante of Adolf Hitler's personal radiologist. At 85, he was old enough to have been around during the Third Reich and his imperious gait was chillingly resonant of high rank. He spoke German, Greek, Italian, Thai, French and English fluently, but his speciality was to craft letters for bar girls consisting of lies and half-truths to beguile mostly male Caucasian tourists out of their money.

I was once privy to a meeting he thought was private and observed him perform the customary Nazi military salute when he greeted a German friend. At first, I thought it was moment of historical parody, but then observed both men deliver the same Nazi salute to each other with triumphant, choreographed precision at their farewell.

He still teaches English today, helping young bar girls conjugate irregular verbs and writes letters while receiving an old age pension from the Italian government.

There was another teacher, an American, a former Arizona patrol officer who, while working in Thailand, started to exhibit repressed aggression towards his students.

His violent outbursts and confrontations involved minor infractions of university regulations. He became obsessed with thwarting students from gaining unfair advantage by cheating, and spent hundreds of hours devising examinations that would challenge the ingenuity of students to anticipate the content of examination papers.

When a small cluster of student papers were found to have similar results, he launched a major investigation into the unlikely correlation.

He conducted a statistical analysis of the results involving averages, probability and distribution graphs. Re-marking all 250 exam papers, he concluded that a group of students must have stolen an exam paper prior to the exam day.

He insisted, against the judgment of other teachers, on holding the exam again. The results in the second examination were the same. The students cheated again.

As a final indictment of the susceptibility of the Thai education system to fraud, consider the following experience. A friend from Australia was visiting Thailand as a tourist. I managed to convince him to assume my identity for the first lecture I was to deliver to 120 students in a course of social psychology at the university where I was working.

The exercise was designed to show students how vulnerable people are to appearance and presentation, especially so-called experts with impressive credentials. We had my friend's imposing 6'4'' physique clothed in a fine suit and tie beautifully fashioned in the finest bespoke tradition of Bangkok's 24-hour tailors.

We gave him an impressive resume _ PhD Cambridge University, chairman of research committee at Oxford University, author of two definitive textbooks in the field _ all of which loomed large behind him on a massive cinema-sized screen in a PowerPoint format, while Garry spoke authoritatively about nothing for some time.

The students paid meticulous attention and wrote copious lecture notes on the rambling dissertation. After an hour, when I arrived dressed casually in shorts and t-shirt and introduced myself as the real course lecturer, the students dismissed me as a loony intruder.

After all, I did not look like a teacher. That is what matters in Thailand _ the appearance of truth, created by a tailor's scissors, an artist's brushstroke or a surgeon's knife.

- Harry Nicolaides

Harry Nicolaides is a Melbourne-born teacher who has taught English in Thailand for the last three years.

[yeasin17]

I think, a simple solution for this problem can be compulsory submission of Police Clearance with all other documents in all the immigration offices. So no terrorists, murderers, or other sort of offenders will be able to leave their country and hide themselves in other countries. The visa applicant should as well submit Police Clearances from all those countries where he has visited at least once and stayed there for more than 3 months.

[PeaceBlondie]

C'mon, folks, Thailand has a lot of laws on the books, and it has a government of several levels that can do its job. That is, if the govt. wants to do it, has the well qualified and diligent staff to do it, is properly directed and funded, etc. But they don't want to do it.

Same with the schools. Were they doing their jobs properly last week? Are they doing their jobs now, checking whether a 'teacher' is who he says he is? No, not usually. Most schools don't check degrees or references or criminal records. "Oh, you have pieces of nice looking paper, and you are breathing and your skin is light: please start teaching today." To get my first teaching job in Thailand, my demonstration class was successful, so I was put on the payroll effective three hours earlier.

Qualifications: if a teacher has a bachelor's of education and a relevant teaching field and a good reference as a teacher, they should be hired at 125,000 baht per month, plus medical benefits and pension plan. Would a good engineer come to Thailand for a satang less, or demand twice that much?

Yet, there's no way, José, that 98% of the teaching jobs in Thailand will pay 50,000 baht per month, even if you have an MS in your teaching field. If you just have a general degree, 40,000. Many schools refuse to pay more than 25K.

The schools and govt. do what they wish, when they have the competency to do it and the will to carry through. So, there won't be much change.

PS: I'm well qualified, and I taught two years. Sitting at the bar last night with a well qualified, successful former teacher, we both agreed, "We won't be fooled again." And he worked at Thailand's #3 uni.

[BigSnake]

Bottom LINE here Folks is it will be hel_l to pay for years and years for any Farang wanting a legal teaching job here in the Kindgom of Thailand

[ilyushin]

Guess there will be fewer farang teachers here now. The ones I've meet out on the town are mostly nice guys trying to earn a living in a underpaid industry. I don't know about qualifications, but most seem to have a grasp of what they are doing.

Good luck qualified teachers. The expense of being one just went up.

[hammered]

Apparently there are quite a few people posting here who regard themselves as "teachers", yet have no teaching degree/qualification.

Why is it so difficult to understand that if you want to teach you need the proper qualifications? and I don't mean the Kao-Sarn type of degree!

Especially when it comes to teaching children, knowledge about a language is just not enough. A proper education in pedagogical science is an absolute must!

opalhort

A teaching degree does not a good teacher make. More important is whether English is the teacher's native language. Next in importance is whether the teacher has a propensity and alacrity for teaching. Someone with a fistful of degrees might make a crumby teacher and could just as likely be lusting after students as any other teaching candidate - Thai or farang.

The original news item in this thread mentioned the added scrutiny will apply to farang "applying" for teaching jobs. What about the current teachers, both Thai and foreign, who have dubious qualifications and lust after students? Along with or instead of background checks - a more effective way to gauge teaching adeptness is to simply ask fellow teachers and student leaders about the current teacher's ability and moral terpitude.

It depends what the teacher is teaching on whether a specific degree is required.

Right now a lot of schools are hiring foreign teachers to teach core subjects. As a father with a child in the state education system, I have found it is better to to actually puit your child through the regular curriculum where the Thai teachers at least know the curriculum and have the relevent qualifixcations to teach the subject. I have yet to find any foreign teacher who knew anything about the curriculum and most in fact were teaching subjects they knew little to nothing about.

Also in the school my child attends there are regular meetings with parents, and deficient teaching or unacceptable conduct is raised by parents. Teachers have been removed because of this. Maybe I am lucky in this.

As a father I totally support manadatory background checks before employment for any teacher who is to work with minors. As a foreign resident of Thailand I am sadly aware of the number of perverts and pedophiles attracted to this country.

[ray23]

This is a very interesting topic. First let me say that a degree does not mean someone is not a child molestor, so the theory in my opinnion is simply a knee jerk reaction that is hog wash.

For those of you who don't think America does checks, everytime I go to the embassy for business even getting pages for my pastport I'm checked in the criminal records section of the U.S. So that theory is completly wrong.

The only way a child molestor is going to be in that system is if they have already been caught. There are a lot more that are not caught then those that are. So no guarentee.

I fully agree that it would be wonderful if every english teahcer held a degree, but is that realisitic?

As many have pointed out already some are going to be denied acess to english teachers of any kind if that is really enforced.

I agree that there are many native teachers to teach english, why do they want foriegners to teach. Well with rare exception the Thai teachers here are excellent at sentence structure in some cases much better then I. They read and write very well, but they do not speak well at all. The head of the english program for Ratachapat University locally lives a block from me. She can not understand what I'm saying when I speak english. I have had lot practise at that so I assume that I'm speaking correctly. Always saying speak slowly, well where in the world do people speak slowly? They certianly don't do it here in Thailand when they speak thier native language.

You know I will not try to teach english because I'm not qaulified, but I would make an excellent assistant. At this juncture I can't even do that as a unpaid volunteer. Now because of this we are going to make even harder to find people to help.

If there is anyone who thinks you can do a good background check in two weeks I'm sorry but your are wrong, you can only catch those who have already been caught. To do a good background you don't just talk to the people who are listed on the application you find the people he or she did not list and talk to them. Who in thier right mind would put somones name on that application that would say bad things about them

I'm sorry that decesion is not based on any logic

[paulmw]

I have to say this is a good move... teachers with no qualfications have no business working in Thailand.. it's about time they cleaned this up.

The only people who should be scared are the ones with no real degree and no formal teaching qualifications.. about time they sorted out the backpacker teachers here.

Bingo dude, I couldn't have said it better myself

There seems to be a lot of knocking of non BA teachers since this latest probe developed.

Being a very lowly TEFL certificated teacher, who has taught a number of years here, I have seen a great many M, BA, etc, ( my piers according to many posts on here) who seem to be unable to teach basic language skills & are removed from their schools.

Its not the qualifications that count it’s the ability to teach foreign students.

It’s very different from teaching in western schools as many find out to their cost.

Yes there may well need a shake up in the system but lets do it on teaching skills not on yet more qualifications.

John Mark Karr, 41, who had worked as a teacher of some international schools as we understand, was fully qualified, was removed because of his poor altitude to his pupils.

So the system we have now is working to some extent.

Several of my piers (M. B.A) have been removed from schools I have taught at for poor teaching skills, losing their temper etc.

Again the system does work in some schools.

It’s no good being an over educated idiot if you can’t do the job.

Paul.

[h5kaf]

(Quote: Jeng: It would seem that the chickens have come home to roost. You get what you pay for. If Thai institutions would value their teachers by paying a decent wage for them (all the respect and honor won't cash a check at the bank) then they would demand better qualifications. Instead they try to get by on the cheap. A lot of teachers (especially ESL) seem to have little training or qualifications other than their word and a dusty textbook. And unfortunately, teaching English has become the default profession of those who are unable to obtain other employment in the Kingdom.)

_____________________

This situation is not unique to the Teaching Profession. The same argument applies to policemen and others who work for the local beaurocracy.

[Ijustwannateach]

I was hoping this wouldn't turn into a qualifications thread, since I don't really think it's topical, but since it apparently has I dug up what I wrote the last time I addressed the issue at length (almost 2 years ago). I still think what I said is true:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=16100

First of all, in almost any modern country a "qualified" teacher is someone whom the government with jurisdiction over the area *says* is qualified. In Thailand, the parts of government who have a say are the Ministry of Education, the Ministry of Labour, and the Immigration Office. The short answer to your question is that the people who are qualified to teach in Thailand are the ones that these three agencies *say* are qualified and hence grant them a teacher's license, a work permit, and an extended visa, respectively. There may be those who don't like it this way, but they're not the ones granting the papers.

As to what basis these departments use for determining WHO is qualified- it's quite flexible. It's true that a B.Ed. is mentioned in the relevant laws; however, the requirement is softened by allowing "the equivalent"- and the Ministry of Education has and often takes a broad view about what "the equivalent" can mean, especially depending on local supply and demand- people outside Bangkok where the foreign teacher supply is extremely low get away with a lot more than Bangkokians. In Bangkok, it generally requires a real degree in a topic at least related to the subject being taught- if it's TEFL, then it also requires either a certificate or "equivalent" experience. Bottom line: when the Thai government wants it, persons ranging from those with no degree and no TEFL certificate up to those who are the most qualified in the world are all equally "legal" here.

Further regarding your question about ability to teach legally back home- it all depends on where "home" is. In general, it does require a college degree to teach elementary or high school back home for most people- but then, the subjects being taught are not as simple usually as TEFL can be. It doesn't ALWAYS require an education degree to teach- in the U.S.A. there are 50 different education codes (one for each state). In Georgia, you can teach any subject that you have passed on your college transcript, though it doesn't make you a fully licensed teacher. When *I* was in high school, most of my science teachers had neither B.Eds nor degrees directly in the science they were teaching- they were drafted because they were the smartest teachers with the nearest type of degree. That didn't stop my chemistry teacher (who had been a Home Economics major in college!!!) from eventually earning her chemistry Ph.D, or stop the farm agri. expert from becoming my physics teacher. It also didn't stop my grandmother, who was a one room school house teacher in rural areas, from being a real teacher in her day- and it didn't hurt my mom either, since she wound up graduating with a medical technician's degree.

In short, fully licensed, qualified teachers are in short supply around the world- partially because very few bright people opt to study AS AN ED MAJOR from the start, there being a lot more useful and interesting things to spend 4 years at. One would think that a 4 year English degree would be just as useful (or more so) for teaching English than a B.Ed, or that a 4 year Math degree would be better for someone trying to teach senior level calculus than someone who spent 4 years studying educational theory- and it often is. That's why none of the teachers in my high school who had PhDs had any of their degrees in education.

I applaud your recognition of the reality that teacher quality depends on the person and not on the type (or even possession) of a particular degree. I think this is particularly important to realize in the case of TEFL, which is not even, strictly speaking, an academic area of study for most students, but rather a skill-based discipline like music or karate. I also echo your challenge to all teachers to try to inspire and help their students in their studies.

We get a thread like this every 2-3 months or so in the Teacher's Forum. I don't usually bother to respond anymore. Most people who have strong opinions one way or another won't be convinced otherwise.

"Steven"

[wolfmanjack]

Apparently there are quite a few people posting here who regard themselves as "teachers", yet have no teaching degree/qualification.

Why is it so difficult to understand that if you want to teach you need the proper qualifications? and I don't mean the Kao-Sarn type of degree!

Especially when it comes to teaching children, knowledge about a language is just not enough. A proper education in pedagogical science is an absolute must!

opalhort

I think the main point everyone is trying to make is proper "qualifications". I know many people without a degree of any kind that do a very good job of teaching. They did complete an ESL course.

Why should you have to spend 4 years of your life studying history and all of the other bullshit courses that you have to take along with your chosen feild of study to get a degree. Not to mention the thousands of dollars it costs. When I was studying in university my professor told me whatever company hired me would tell me to forget everything that i larned at university because they were going to teach me how to do it there way. Requiring a degree is only for making sure the person wants the job bad enough to spend the time and money to get one so they can get the job.

Not to mention the fact that the nickname for education classes is "cake walk class." Most of the people at university, my self included, took education classes as electives because they were the easiest class to ge an "A" in.

[animatic]

I certainly think teachers are better off with a full degree.

But disagree that teachers can't be good, AND effective, without a degree.

Certainly a degree quantifies their abilities, as to knowlege,

but not as to "ability to communicate" the informatiom to students.

I have encountered lay teachers who made people REALLY develope,

and degree'd teachers who totally turned off EVERY student they encountered.

I have no degree in my area's of expertice, but most often

can demonstratably think circles around those getting out of the

miniscule number of schools giving degrees in these subejects.

One of the few actually having university acreditation,

was asking me for years to come teach, but I was too busy.

Even in Bangkok, I visited a school, just spur of the moment,

and eneded up touring the facilities with the head,

and all but getting a job offer. I was not living in Thailand at the time.

Practical expirences most often surpasse classroom,

and internship semesters by a wide margin.

Still a degree does give school management and parents a sense

of security, that would likely NOT be there otherwise.

Accreditation and a properly researched teaching history are both totally positive.

Is it a guarantee of a good teacher... nope!

Will it weed out the real bad ones, probably.

[wolfmanjack]

The 8 years that I spent university were not spent at parties as one of your previous posts suggests.

8 years !!!!!!!!

You must have a PHD already, or were you a career student.

[anchieBILS]

Im working at a language school. It's my job to employ teachers for the institution and most of the time send them to demanding schools. Now what am i supposed to do? Yes, it just seems like we ARE running out of teahers with the minimum of bachelor's degree. And it's not surprising that those teachers.. quite a few of them, walk in with the attitude of "omg i have a degree u gotta give me at least 40k!! or u know what i got offer here and there imma just walk outta here 'n u gonna lose a greatly qualified teacher!" ... yes, i almost literally kick them out of the office myself. No schools in thailand .. or ANYWHERE in the world would be looking for such an attitude in their teachers. And yes I meet these people almost every day of my work life. Maybe i'm just unfortunate to come across these people... but this is what I've faced. And from experience.. yes, a lot of truely valued teachers aren't even gruaduates. The highest they've been to was either highschool or diploma. Good enough? Maybe that entirely depends on WHO is looking at it from WHICH point of view.

And now .. how do I look these teachers in the eye and tell them no, sorry ... we can't employ u coz u don't have a degree and no schools are going to risk that. They just don't want their students killed, u know! .... sigh .. yes i know i sound like someone coming in here whining .. whine whine whine. So? I am going to whine about what I'd have to be facing from Monday onwards, with new teachers coming in for interviews expecting to just do nth but TEACH, and make a living

I really thouht this job was easy u know ... now it isn't. I'm basically going to do the job of SCREENING teachers, making the schools believe that no ma'am, he's surely not a murderer. Why? see? a degree.. wallah!

[wolfmanjack]

Didnt the goverment say all classrooms would be air conditioned and at 21c as well not long ago?

21C ? I just checked and my aicon is set at 26C and I am compfortable. 21C would get the Thai kids to wearing jackets in class.

[wolfmanjack]

"Exactly! And these criminal acts should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. That's what laws are for- to police the conscience of the public. "

i don't know where you live but many of the laws here in thailand are enacted to increase the amount of under the table money paid. This has to be true of most of the laws that do not make sense.

[nikster]

It would seem that the chickens have come home to roost. You get what you pay for. If Thai institutions would value their teachers by paying a decent wage for them (all the respect and honor won't cash a check at the bank) then they would demand better qualifications. Instead they try to get by on the cheap. A lot of teachers (especially ESL) seem to have little training or qualifications other than their word and a dusty textbook. And unfortunately, teaching English has become the default profession of those who are unable to obtain other employment in the Kingdom.

Teachers are not well paid world-wide. If you live on a teacher's salary in San Francisco, you qualify for housing assistance! No joke.

So yeah, it's a shame, but don't blame Thailand alone. Given the really poor english language education here, Thailand needs all the english teachers it can get. There are always good teachers and bad ones and it's not related to whether they have a degree or not.

In the U.S., pretty much anyone can teach - teaching qualifications are easy to come by, and not required in some schools or for some subjects. In contrast, the country where I am from, Austria, teaching is a 6-year degree.

For english teachers that are native speakers, Thailand is also competing with the likes of South Korea and Japan, both of which actually pay english teachers very well even by western standards.

Thailand hardly has a choice here - it needs to welcome all native english speakers willing to teach. Of course there would be better solutions but that would require the government to get serious about it and spend money so realistically it's not going to happen.

[nikster]

The 8 years that I spent university were not spent at parties as one of your previous posts suggests.

8 years !!!!!!!!

You must have a PHD already, or were you a career student.

It depends on the Uni system. It's not unusual where I come from, maybe a bit on the long side, but not unusual. This being Austria. And yes, that's for a teacher's degree. I think it's way over the top but then, I didn't study it... I studied computer science there and the fastest guy I knew did it in 5 years, I took 6. At the end you do get a master's equivalent though, back then there were no bachelor's degress, to everyone's confusion.

In the U.S. the situation is completely different, it really is a different academical world over there. You can get a bachelor's quick but the meaning varies with the Uni you have it from - it could be a totally meaningless over-the-counter degree from some crap college, or it could be pretty challenging at one of the elite colleges.

On a side-note, I really do hope you did get a lot of partying in in 8 years... I certainly did my share in 6.. nothing wrong with that at all

[mowlem]

What state was the gun toting former senator from?

[wolfmanjack]

It is about time this was regulated. It is no wonder that the Thai standard of education is so poor when these bogus individuals are passing themselves off as teachers. An example, some of the so called English teachers I have met can't even speak Thai, how the hel_l can you explain something effectively to a non English speaker if you don't speak the native tongue? You can't. You can muddle through but the student's level of education will suffer.

The head of an english department in bkk told me that they had a native english speaker that also spoke thai. As soon as the kids found out the teacher spoke thai they refused to speak english. I also know several native english speakers who also speak thai. Most of their children do not speak english. Every class should have an english thai dictionary where the student can look up the word they do not know and use it. This would force them to communicate in english. i speak some thai but I force my children to speak english when they speak to me. If they know a thai word but do not know an english equivlant, I have them go ask their mother. This forces them to remember the word until they can make it back to whatever room I am in to tell me. As it is now, based on my experience, my 4 year old speaks better english than 99% of the university graduates in thailand.

[astral]

The person whose case kicked this off has only been charged, NOT found guilty.

Clearly the idea of "innocent until proved guilty" has not arrived in Thailand....................

[VanZam]

The 8 years that I spent university were not spent at parties as one of your previous posts suggests.

8 years !!!!!!!!

You must have a PHD already, or were you a career student.

Ph.D in psychology. I'm not an English teacher.

[richard10365]

Isn't there a minimum amount that a farang is supposed to make in Thailand if he or she is legally employed?

Is it something like 40,000 baht per month?

If so, since the Thai government seems like it is going to require all farang teachers to be qualified, doesn't it make sence to pay all farang teachers in Thailand the minimum required by Thai law to work?

I think the qualified farang teachers who are left teaching in Thailand should demand the Thai schools pay their wages or stage a walk out.

Hey....a strike. Hmmmm.....I wonder how that will play out in Thailand? What if all farang English teachers who don't agree with the new policy did not go to work tomorrow. I wonder what they would say about that?

I wonder how many farang English teachers would go on strike to protest the new policy?