Where is our international community headed in Chiang Mai?

[chingmai331]

Must say i like that: 'stay off all the media and your life will be better'. IMO, very true as our life is led by where our mind leads it.

[poweratradio]

In some countries RABBLE ROUSERS are imprisioned until they learn to not incite the masses.

Like Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Iran, Russia, etc., etc. etc.. Hooray?

Yes indeed and in some countries where military law is the authority.

[femi fan]

Does the OP live in CM?

Does this poster read the thread they're posting on?!

Yes, i do live in CM, as i have said more than once. Been living and working here for quite some time.

Any relevance to the question, might i ask?

[femi fan]

Sure, the police might crack down on something silly from time to time, but who cares? Do what you feel you need to do and deal with the consequences if anything happens, like if you get caught in a sweep while playing music somewhere. I mean, come on! Go play and deal with it. Quit being such a <deleted>.

Overall, life is super easy in Chiang Mai. Some things could be improved, and in time maybe they will, but this is still a 3rd world country so you have to take the good with the bad. And there isn't much bad up north.

Last... stop reading all of these negative Thai Visa news stories and bitter expat posts. That will bring you down real fast. The more you stay off TV, and off of the news, or all media for that matter, the better your life will be.

I spend most of my time away from thaivisa for the reasons you point out. However, for all the negative stuff this thread has thrown up, there has been more positive stuff and people and their contributions, so glad i started this thread.

I do frequent and ever longer newsfasts in my life, again, for the reasons you point out.

Yes, life in CM is super easy, and i love it here. But i started this thread because i thought i could see a new direction taking shape. I may have been wrong, but hey, ask questions and find out more than you knew before!

Who cares? I care when postiive people doing positive things for the community get hassled. With more negative stuff going on in life it's important that the positive stuff can happen without it being removed. But negative people seem to have so much energy it's always their voices that are heard. Positive people come along and they get stamped down upon by the negative people who cannot bear, it seems, to see people enjoying their lives.

And i'm not being such a <deleted> thank you very much. You may be happy with life here, fine, i am too, but i i didn't come here purely for my own benefit.

[trainman34014]

Lots of people would agree with you that the guys living here on very limited budgets are somehow helping out the local vendors. Well, those guys (and I know a few) like to think they are helping out. The truth is, the local vendors don't need their business and are a bit weary of these guys.

I've never met a Thai yet in 8 years that is 'tired' of taking money !!

[northernjohn]

"Immigrants have turned Britain into a much more habitable and interesting country."

I wonder how many of your fellow citizens would agree with this statement?

90 percent of those who eat curry and tikka. In other words, practically everyone, except members of the national front and ukip.

Bad example if my understanding is right. Curry was originated by the English. I guess it is more interesting if you have a segment of the population trying to bring Sharia law in as the world religion. At least according to the BBC interview I saw. Also if you are not sure if their is a bomb on the subway. Yes it has made England an interesting place to live in.

To be honest with you I am not that interested in making Chiang Mai that interesting.

Edited January 27, 2015 by northernjohn

[northernjohn]

Well, if one is not an old fat cat with a large bank account, they can always get a real job, live legally, and be a normal person... I am glad they crack down on the extended tourists living off mom and dads handouts and contributing nothing to the country.

If someone is living off of Mom and Dad's handouts then they are contributing something to the country. Something called cash. You would be shocked at how many people - not just Thais - actually appreciate cash and think it makes a great contribution. Reallly, what planet do you hail from where cash is a bad thing?

But in many cases not much cash. The Thai authorities really don't want the guys with a monthly budget of US$600 or so. They want people spending that much every two days or so.

Yes, those benevolent and wise authorities who only wish the best for the Thai people But what about the thais who run small stores, sell food by the side of the road, or who, a little higher up run small guesthouses? They might disagree with those benevolent and wise authorities.

Agreed. The bit about rich tourists is over played. Many tourists enjoy those small business operations. Now if a Farong was serious and really wanted to help improve Chiang Mai they would come up with a plan to retain all these businesses and not block the sidewalks. Also widen the streets. But hay let's face it we are just talking here.

The OP was intended on how to make it easier for a foreigner to take a Thai job. Not going to happen in the foreseeable future. Especially when the new ASEAN gets in to gear. Now if some one was to know and understand all the turns and curves in it they might be able to profit. That remains to be seen.

[northernjohn]

Lots of people would agree with you that the guys living here on very limited budgets are somehow helping out the local vendors. Well, those guys (and I know a few) like to think they are helping out. The truth is, the local vendors don't need their business and are a bit weary of these guys.

I've never met a Thai yet in 8 years that is 'tired' of taking money !!

You need to get out more. Ask any businessman. They all have a hard time coming up with dependable staff. The Thai works to live. He gets a little money ahead and quits until his money runs out. Or just takes a holiday.

[hml367]

Northernjohn,

Your last paragraph is incorrect.

[quidnunc]

Lots of people would agree with you that the guys living here on very limited budgets are somehow helping out the local vendors. Well, those guys (and I know a few) like to think they are helping out. The truth is, the local vendors don't need their business and are a bit weary of these guys.

So what you're saying is these small time vendors don't need their business because....???

Just saying that something is the truth doesn't make it so. Especially when it defies common sense. As your assertion clearly does. They may or may not "need" the money, but they certainly want it.

[bangmai]

1242 days overstay for one of the 17, who was doing so much good for the Thai Economy. I wonder what he is wanted for in America.

Edited January 27, 2015 by bangmai

[arunsakda]

"Immigrants have turned Britain into a much more habitable and interesting country."

I wonder how many of your fellow citizens would agree with this statement?

90 percent of those who eat curry and tikka. In other words, practically everyone, except members of the national front and ukip.

Bad example if my understanding is right. Curry was originated by the English. I guess it is more interesting if you have a segment of the population trying to bring Sharia law in as the world religion. At least according to the BBC interview I saw. Also if you are not sure if their is a bomb on the subway. Yes it has made England an interesting place to live in.

To be honest with you I am not that interested in making Chiang Mai that interesting.

I think I understand what you mean but Curry was not "originated" by the British. The word comes from the Tamil "kari". Civilizations where arts music and writing existed and flourished on the subcontinent when Britons were wearing animal skins, living in dirty pits and with no written language. There were never ever any tropical products such as tumeric and coriander growing in The British Isles. Recipes detailing dishes of meats spiced by such things exist in ancient Vedic texts.

The Japanese did get curry from the Brits and now they make the best curry in the world as far as I'm concerned.

[quidnunc]

Thank you sakaew.

Change, growth, and evolution are invetible, the only certainty in our lives before our death.

It seems many contributors on this thread are content with what they have got here in Thailand, and are resistant to any change they feel might threaten their wee world. That's okay, it's a natural instinct.

But it blocks our fulfillment as human beings.

Chiang Mai has developed rather a lot in my 12 years here, and i do recall seeing the place in 1991, so in just 20 odd years big changes. I am a human being, amongst human beings. We may have different passports, but if we live in a community then all individuals in that community have a desire to see positve things happening. Since we have been accepted to live here in Chiang Mai, then our voices will be accepted too.

Of course, if we can't speak in the right way, can't make the effort to gel with the host nation and her people, then our message will always fall on deaf ears.

But if we are respectful, contribute our ideas, then for sure the Thai people will listen. Change cannot occur until we know what options are available beyond what exists today.

Perhaps that's what gets most people's goats up on this thread, they like their new world as it is and don't want anybody to change it.

But bad luck, coz change is all around, and in our modern world it's coming faster and faster. If we embrace it we can have a voice in how it goes, if we resist it, it will happen anyway.

How did you come to this way of thinking?

You actually understood what he meant?

I get lost every time I read something like 'speak with one voice'..

There aren't two people on this forum who can agree on as much as a hamburger. Or fish & chips. Or what football is.

It'll be the same with actual laws about foreign residents. Keep it simple and everyone will agree that less regulation is better. But then when all kinds of people from all kinds of nationalities flood the town then they go 'oh, wait'.

I listed to similar perspectives for years in college and university. The professors (ideologues) were incessantly trying to indoctrinate their students with the left wing - "let's tear society down, and rebuild it correctly" view of the world.

I figure that the OP is unaware that he has been radicalized.

It's just awful how students get radicalized. Do you know that there are professors right here in Thailand blatantly teaching Darwin's theory of evolution and getting away with it. And they are said to be polluting even Thai students with this brand of ideological trash. Repeat after me: the Earth is young and it's flat.

[quidnunc]

Lots of people would agree with you that the guys living here on very limited budgets are somehow helping out the local vendors. Well, those guys (and I know a few) like to think they are helping out. The truth is, the local vendors don't need their business and are a bit weary of these guys.

I've never met a Thai yet in 8 years that is 'tired' of taking money !!

You need to get out more. Ask any businessman. They all have a hard time coming up with dependable staff. The Thai works to live. He gets a little money ahead and quits until his money runs out. Or just takes a holiday.

You're badly confused. This has nothing to do with industriousness. Offer any out-of-work Thai some cash and see if he refuses it. I doubt you'll find many non-takers.

Also, your generalization about Thai workers is patently false. Do you think the Japanese and others would be setting up auto factories here if that were the case? Talk about ugly Americans or Canadians as the case may be. Far better to have hippy-dippy farangs here than farangs with your attitude.

[dassyurus]

Seems like the only debate acheivable here is a mass debate by so many people flogging their own broken down horses

[JulieM]

Lots of people would agree with you that the guys living here on very limited budgets are somehow helping out the local vendors. Well, those guys (and I know a few) like to think they are helping out. The truth is, the local vendors don't need their business and are a bit weary of these guys.

So what you're saying is these small time vendors don't need their business because....???

Just saying that something is the truth doesn't make it so. Especially when it defies common sense. As your assertion clearly does. They may or may not "need" the money, but they certainly want it.

What I'm saying is that the 40 baht meals these guys are buying doesn't mean a lot to the vendor who is selling hundreds of meals every day.

[quidnunc]

Lots of people would agree with you that the guys living here on very limited budgets are somehow helping out the local vendors. Well, those guys (and I know a few) like to think they are helping out. The truth is, the local vendors don't need their business and are a bit weary of these guys.

So what you're saying is these small time vendors don't need their business because....???

Just saying that something is the truth doesn't make it so. Especially when it defies common sense. As your assertion clearly does. They may or may not "need" the money, but they certainly want it.

What I'm saying is that the 40 baht meals these guys are buying doesn't mean a lot to the vendor who is selling hundreds of meals every day.

I didn't know that the typical vendor had a gross income of at least 8000 baht per day (200 x 40) And I don't think you do either.

[quidnunc]

"It's just awful how students get radicalized. Do you know that there are professors right here in Thailand blatantly teaching Darwin's theory of evolution and getting away with it. And they are said to be polluting even Thai students with this brand of ideological trash. Repeat after me: the Earth is young and it's flat."

...and God is a postmodernist woman.

Could be worse. He could be some angry vindictive male who condemns you to eternal damnation for not believing he exists. Let us thank HER for not being like that.

Edited January 27, 2015 by quidnunc

[JulieM]

I can only speak for the Nimmen area where there are few places to buy a meal for 35-40 baht. But the places next to the Hillside Condo and the 7/11 serve hundreds of meals daily, most of the dishes costing 35 baht.

[quidnunc]

I can only speak for the Nimmen area where there are few places to buy a meal for 35-40 baht. But the places next to the Hillside Condo and the 7/11 serve hundreds of meals daily, most of the dishes costing 35 baht.

So A: you think that's typical and

B: they don't want money tainted by the hands of poor farangs. They only want the sweet smelling currency handled by Thais.

[Ulysses G.]

Also, your generalization about Thai workers is patently false. Do you think the Japanese and others would be setting up auto factories here if that were the case?

I have had a lot of Thais working for me over many years. Some have been excellent workers and most are just fine. I have had only one or two that I have any complaints about. I think that a lot of Westerners do not understand how to manage them and that includes me. I hired a Thai manager after being in business for about a year and it has been all uphill after that, as far as the staff go.

[JulieM]

I can only speak for the Nimmen area where there are few places to buy a meal for 35-40 baht. But the places next to the Hillside Condo and the 7/11 serve hundreds of meals daily, most of the dishes costing 35 baht.

So A: you think that's typical and

B: they don't want money tainted by the hands of poor farangs. They only want the sweet smelling currency handled by Thais.

My point is that some of these guys feel that Thailand should bend down and welcome them and their cash and make it a lot easier to stay here. Of course, I'm talking about the crowd that cannot possibly afford a retirement visa. These are the people that Thailand is trying to keep out. When I see them expecting special privileges, it makes me laugh.

[Saladin]

I have only been living in Thailand for about 12 months, the past three in Chiang Mai but I must agree with you. Here is my assessment:

1. There is no expat 'community' that speaks with one voice - just individuals with something meaningful to say,a lot of whingers, and too many tweeters who just want to see their name in print.

2. There are many unnecessary problems and inconveniences for Farang that could be easily fixed.

3. Nobody in a position of influence is going to listen to individuals' complaints.

4. Controversial open criticism of Thai procedures is counter-productive.

5. It seems to me that we need to form some sort of association/club where we could meet socially, discuss problems and formulate suggested solutions. Our suggestions should be practical and constructive and be restricted only to matters that affect the Farang community, and not Thai matters that are none of our business.

6. We would then need to get the ear of a Thai patron or patrons, people with influence who can present our proposals to the right people and in the Thai manner. This person or persons would probably be somebody who can see personal political or commercial advantages in being Farang friendly.

[bangmai]

There's the Expat Club, which after an older friend's review 8 years ago; I decided I would never join. I'm on a visa for retirement purposes, and I don't think my father would like it (CEC), either. It's clearly av overly sensitive issue on TVF, and after a while the pieces of the puzzle will fit together.

[JulieM]

Saladin, this is thaivisa. Stop being so reasonable ; )

[Cholmondley]

I have only been living in Thailand for about 12 months, the past three in Chiang Mai but I must agree with you. Here is my assessment:

1. There is no expat 'community' that speaks with one voice - just individuals with something meaningful to say,a lot of whingers, and too many tweeters who just want to see their name in print.

2. There are many unnecessary problems and inconveniences for Farang that could be easily fixed.

3. Nobody in a position of influence is going to listen to individuals' complaints.

4. Controversial open criticism of Thai procedures is counter-productive.

5. It seems to me that we need to form some sort of association/club where we could meet socially, discuss problems and formulate suggested solutions. Our suggestions should be practical and constructive and be restricted only to matters that affect the Farang community, and not Thai matters that are none of our business.

6. We would then need to get the ear of a Thai patron or patrons, people with influence who can present our proposals to the right people and in the Thai manner. This person or persons would probably be somebody who can see personal political or commercial advantages in being Farang friendly.

Some fair points, problem is that when there is discourse and division in a country, it can be politically expedient for some not to be nice to foreigners, and claim they are part of any problem.

[NancyL]

There's the Expat Club, which after an older friend's review 8 years ago; I decided I would never join. I'm on a visa for retirement purposes, and I don't think my father would like it (CEC), either. It's clearly av overly sensitive issue on TVF, and after a while the pieces of the puzzle will fit together.

Hmm....you rejected the Expats Club eight years ago based on a second-hand review and haven't reconsidered? At least take a look at the website and Facebook page. A lot has changed with the group in the past year.

[dru2]

...5. It seems to me that we need to form some sort of association/club where we could meet socially, discuss problems and formulate suggested solutions. Our suggestions should be practical and constructive and be restricted only to matters that affect the Farang community, and not Thai matters that are none of our business....

Forget it. Come here to live in Thailand as much like a Thai as possible. If you want to be a Westerner, with Western solutions to everything, why come here in the first place?

[DividendGuy]

OP, OK, you are referring to "working" here, not staying here. Many people are working here as volunteers, and although that may violate the letter of the law, I don't know of one case where they have been in trouble with the law.

Now if you are referring to working here so as to earn enough money to stay here, you are in the wrong place. Unless the people you are referring to have the skill set to gain valid, legal employment, they shouldn't be here.

I know tons of young guys (and some not so young) who have been living here and working here for over a decade, some legal, some not. They are constantly broke (or nearly broke), they have no pension and no future. God knows what they will do when they become senior citizens.

And if someone married a Thai without the ability to support that relationship financially, they get no sympathy from me. That may sound harsh, but I know young couples with kids who have no business being parents. If their finances were secure I could understand it, but many are broke.

To JulieM

Finally someone really gets it and it all boils down to economics in the end. If you don't have enough financial assets to bring to Thailand, then IMO it is difficult to add anything to the community because your position will always be precarious trying to make ends meet. Trying to eek out a living makes it almost impossible to live here legally and then to be able to add to Chiang Mai's community is not going to work. Thailand, is a great place to retire to, but only if you have the correct income and or retirement package. If you don't have this income level before you try to live in Thailand then you are going to suffer and most likely be forced to eventually leave Thailand.

[Dante99]

OP, OK, you are referring to "working" here, not staying here. Many people are working here as volunteers, and although that may violate the letter of the law, I don't know of one case where they have been in trouble with the law.

Now if you are referring to working here so as to earn enough money to stay here, you are in the wrong place. Unless the people you are referring to have the skill set to gain valid, legal employment, they shouldn't be here.

I know tons of young guys (and some not so young) who have been living here and working here for over a decade, some legal, some not. They are constantly broke (or nearly broke), they have no pension and no future. God knows what they will do when they become senior citizens.

And if someone married a Thai without the ability to support that relationship financially, they get no sympathy from me. That may sound harsh, but I know young couples with kids who have no business being parents. If their finances were secure I could understand it, but many are broke.

To JulieM

Finally someone really gets it and it all boils down to economics in the end. If you don't have enough financial assets to bring to Thailand, then IMO it is difficult to add anything to the community because your position will always be precarious trying to make ends meet. Trying to eek out a living makes it almost impossible to live here legally and then to be able to add to Chiang Mai's community is not going to work. Thailand, is a great place to retire to, but only if you have the correct income and or retirement package. If you don't have this income level before you try to live in Thailand then you are going to suffer and most likely be forced to eventually leave Thailand.

That is incoreorrect. I have freinds here who came and worked teaching. They have made a positive input to the "community", lived comfortably on thier teaching incomes for more than 25 years and now live here comfortably in retirement.

One size does not fit all and it appears that many folks, new arrivals particularly, think they need a lot of money to live hereand so everybody else does too. All the farangs are like they do and the Thais should be too. Wake up.

And don't jump into the health insurance and end of life disability funding dance. Those are modern "conveniences" that have become available only in recent history and are only available to relatively very few people in the world. They are not a requirement for a good life, nor are they required inorder to die without leaving a big hospital bill or other debts.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Dante99