A weak front end ?

[papa al]

Puny forks.

The bain of our light bikes.

[dave_boo]

Puny forks.

The bain of our light bikes.

I need to stop watching so many movies.

I swear at first read it said "Puny god"

[ktm jeff]

As i implied in my first post , the concept of which was understood more by some than others , IF the forks collapsed , bent , broke , in a controled manner , to reduce de-acceleration , it would help both the rider and the bikes main frame. If they break or bend they are scrap anyway. They are sacrificed to save the bikes main frame. As difficult as it is to do on a bike , due to riding dynamics , i consider this a design feature to lessen rider injury and bike damage .It acts ALMOST like a crumple zone. I forgot to express my condolences to the scooter pillion - RIP.

[papa al]

When I'm flying over the handlebars I'll be thinking: 'I hope my frame is not bent.'

[ktm jeff]

I hope you never have too . , or any of us . Its my "educated assesment" its to save the frame , anyway .

[Gweiloman]

I hope you never have too . , or any of us . Its my "educated assesment" its to save the frame , anyway .

If I ever hit anyone / anything, I wouldn't mind if my front forks "break" if it means that 50% of the force is "absorbed" by that breakage instead of being passed onto my forward trajectory.

[taninthai]

I really don't get this thread you have a high speed head on collision and expect bits of the bike not to break..?

Think you are all thinking way to much into it.

[macknife]

When I'm flying over the handlebars I'll be thinking: 'I hope my frame is not bent.'

I imagine many riders do think about the damage to their bike no matter how badly injured they may be. It's in our nature; every time i have crashed one of my first thoughts is always about my poor bike.

[papa al]

When I wake up in the ICU my first thoughts will be:

'I wonder why the forks are broken, not just bent, and why is the bike frame lying on top of the wheel.'

[mikebike]

When I'm flying over the handlebars I'll be thinking: 'I hope my frame is not bent.'

I imagine many riders do think about the damage to their bike no matter how badly injured they may be. It's in our nature; every time i have crashed one of my first thoughts is always about my poor bike.

Hmmmm, not in my experience. In a crash which results is some road-rash, and a few bumps and bruises, yeah, you'll think of the bike... maybe you can still ride home. In a crash which is severe enough to break a bone or two, yeah you'll think of the bike. In a truly horrible crash (like one which can snap forks), resulting in multiple complex fractures, loss of internal organs, severe trauma, if you're lucky (or unlucky...) enough not to loose consciousness, nope, no thoughts of the bike at all!!

[wantan]

Imo it doesnt matter how bad the damage to the bike is. I wouldnt want to ride a bike that had an accident like this. I would throw it away anyway.

[andreandre]

The fork legs are designed to shear off in such a high speed accident , in order to save the main bike frame. Almost like a crumple zone. Good bit of design there , unlike some bikes , where the frame bends , and rights the complete bike off .

In 30 years riding ive seen quite a few severe crashes and only one where the forktubes snapped .

That bike hit an immoveable concrete road barrier at over 160kph head on.[Through a T intersection up country]

In all others crashes the fork tubes bend as you would expect.

"Designed to shear off?" you say Never heard of this, not saying its not so, but show me such info please.

Garry....I have been riding as long as you & agree you usually never see such things even on complete totals....

Yet I have to tell you since moving here a few years ago I have seen quite a few.

If you search in this forum I even posted a topic ...I think maybe a year ago....

Anyway........In that topic I was asking of the Ducati Monster built here had a flaw as I was seeing so

many with front ends completely snapped off on Thai Face Book Bike sites that I was a member of.

Later I started to notice more & not just Ducati's

Like you I initially thought something was wrong but having seen it on other models now I wonder....

Although I do think they were all built in Thailand models but still I cannot imagine bike parent companies

allowing say a softer steel head main bolt etc.

But again like you over the years never saw it & also consider over the years how much smaller forks were.

Beats me but if you subscribe to some Thai FaceBook clubs or move here I think you will see more.

Odd eh?

Yes Mania, is odd indeed. I also after riding 50 years must say that i have seen maybe one example of a bike with broken front end as in the OP pics.There is no doubt at all that very high speed was involved but as garryjohns rightfully points out it is very rare to see such fractures,mostly forks are bent way up into the frame after such a hit.

Even hitting a much more substantial object such as a heavier vehicle or tree or concrete barrier that does not tend to move with the impact as the Wave would have done.This movement must reduce the impact power a lot so even though this was a fast speed impact the broken front end is not normal in regard to this particular crash.

Have a look at this link below, a lot of major crashes and very few bikes with broken front end ...unless a total write-off ,in which case is to be expected as per my comments above eg into a more substantial object [more than a wave ]

ttps://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1528&bih=850&q=high+speed+motorbike+crash+into+car&oq=high+speed+motorbike+crash+into+car&gs_l=img.3...2191.16663.0.17175.35.25.0.10.2.0.215.3967.0j23j1.24.0.msedr...0...1ac.1.61.img..10.25.3809.Oty6bJXvHTA#imgdii=_

www.google.com.au

Edited January 28, 2015 by andreandre

[papa al]

C'mon Garryjohns.

No design fault in the Kawasaki.

Fault lies elsewhere.

Motorcycle engineers design a strong bike to ride well, at a competitive price.

They do not incorporate crumple zones into the design.

They do not factor damage to bike during high energy accidents into their designs.

Nor to rider.

Stay real!

[mania]

Do you perchance have a link to it or what it was headlined?

Odd as you say.

Also, to me odd that so many others who are interested in safety gear and safety riding have no interest in what could possibly be a bike safety issue.

I'm sure that if i owned a bike model that i saw in such condition i would be taking a bit more interest.

Broken forktubes are definitely not a common sight.

Thanks again.

Sorry Garry right after I posted I did a quick search but nothing showed up.

So I am guessing maybe it was not a separate topic but buried in another.

Also my post was not to imply it was just Ducatis & at the time I may have posted in another thread that showed a different brand

& perhaps someone had said Brand X = cheap etc.

But yes something odd here & I am not sure if they are all Thai built but the ones that come to mind are.

But again here in Thailand the majority are Thai built to keep retail low without import taxes. But as I said

I do not think any parent company would let Thai builts be any less in important areas either

To those who think I meant things do not break...Yes understood & goes without saying.

But in decades of riding & many years racing with get-offs over 70mph (due to usually being near enter or exit turn crashes)

Then seeing the bike flipping thru the air & hitting many times on re-entry I will say I never saw a fork snap off even one bike.

Yes tons of other things break/bend fly off but never a fork....or a swingarm for that matter

Edited January 28, 2015 by mania

[garryjohns]

C'mon Garryjohns.

No design fault in the Kawasaki.

Fault lies elsewhere.

Motorcycle engineers design a strong bike to ride well, at a competitive price.

They do not incorporate crumple zones into the design.

They do not factor damage to bike during high energy accidents into their designs.

Nor to rider.

Stay real!

Please papa, if you address a comment to me, try and ensure is relates to anything that i have actually said.

Edited January 28, 2015 by garryjohns

[ll2]

guys basically, you were not there when the accident happened, you dont know how it happened and what speeds, which angle, if the bike hit a pole for example after hitting the honda wave etc etc so what we say just will be speculation.

i think it is hard to say thai bikes have faults just from the photos without knowign the severity and the way of the acident.

[papa al]

C'mon Garryjohns.

No design fault in the Kawasaki.

Fault lies elsewhere.

Motorcycle engineers design a strong bike to ride well, at a competitive price.

They do not incorporate crumple zones into the design.

They do not factor damage to bike during high energy accidents into their designs.

Nor to rider.

Stay real!

Please papa, if you address a comment to me, try and ensure is relates to anything that i have actually said.

You posted:

"Any input on this?"

and

"Point being that there could well be a major design fault in that model."

I inputed as requested, directly responded to the iterated point, and to other posters' comments,

so what's the problem?

Did I break some forum rules?

Sheesh!

[garryjohns]

C'mon Garryjohns.

No design fault in the Kawasaki.

Fault lies elsewhere.

Motorcycle engineers design a strong bike to ride well, at a competitive price.

They do not incorporate crumple zones into the design.

They do not factor damage to bike during high energy accidents into their designs.

Nor to rider.

Stay real!

Please papa, if you address a comment to me, try and ensure is relates to anything that i have actually said.

You posted:

"Any input on this?"

and

"Point being that there could well be a major design fault in that model."

I inputed as requested, directly responded to the iterated point, and to other posters' comments,

so what's the problem?

Did I break some forum rules?

Sheesh!

My bad ,yes i did say that .

And i stand by it ''There COULD well be"and in context is correct. Could be, not definitely is.

You emphatically state that there is not a design fault. Can you back up this statement with proof?

All other points in your reply are not relevant to my own comments.

You said 'fault lays elsewhere" Fault for forks breaking, i presume you mean

Please clarify this.

[papa al]

I can't prove it.

I can't prove shit stinks either.

Can you provide even one shred of evidence to support this design flaw theory?

Does anybody else believe this?

The fault lies in the guy who smashed his Kawi into the cub at high speed.

Wow!

You seem to have problems recognizing the obvious.!!!

And I take it you are not cool with me responding to other posters' comments?

Really, I'm at a loss....

Edited January 28, 2015 by papa al

[garryjohns]

Do you perchance have a link to it or what it was headlined?

Odd as you say.

Also, to me odd that so many others who are interested in safety gear and safety riding have no interest in what could possibly be a bike safety issue.

I'm sure that if i owned a bike model that i saw in such condition i would be taking a bit more interest.

Broken forktubes are definitely not a common sight.

Thanks again.

Sorry Garry right after I posted I did a quick search but nothing showed up.

So I am guessing maybe it was not a separate topic but buried in another.

Also my post was not to imply it was just Ducatis & at the time I may have posted in another thread that showed a different brand

& perhaps someone had said Brand X = cheap etc.

But yes something odd here & I am not sure if they are all Thai built but the ones that come to mind are.

But again here in Thailand the majority are Thai built to keep retail low without import taxes. But as I said

I do not think any parent company would let Thai builts be any less in important areas either

To those who think I meant things do not break...Yes understood & goes without saying.

But in decades of riding & many years racing with get-offs over 70mph (due to usually being near enter or exit turn crashes)

Then seeing the bike flipping thru the air & hitting many times on re-entry I will say I never saw a fork snap off even one bike.

Yes tons of other things break/bend fly off but never a fork....or a swingarm for that matter

No worries mate.Thanks anyway.

Appreciate your sensible input.

Another member on here is totally opposite to you in viewpoint and logic.

That's papas right to do so of course, but he seems to be on a mission of some sort.

Leaving on our trip up north in a day or two and wont be on line for a while.

[draftvader]

This topic has descended from a reasonable question about bike safety (using the accident as an example). There have been numerous people breaking numerous forum rules. Read them again.

Most relevant are

7) You will respect fellow members and post in a civil manner. No personal attacks, hateful or insulting towards other members, (flaming) Stalking of members on either the forum or via PM will not be allowed.

9) You will not post inflammatory messages on the forum, or attempt to disrupt discussions to upset its participants, or trolling. Trolling can be defined as the act of purposefully antagonizing other people on the internet by posting controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

Remember them for your future debating

CLOSED