Thai ex-PM impeachment could appear 'politically driven': US envoy

[binjalin]

Could be perceived as "politically driven" in diplomatic lingo means it sure the hell was politically driven and I couldn't agree more.

Absolutely!

It would look much better when a Senate full with elected senators impeaches a former PM.

Result is the same though

The result would not be the same though as they would mostly be PTP

For once we agree about the same. May be not for the same reason though, as I would remind you of the Thaksin thinks Pheu Thai acts slogan.

I am no fan of Thaksin and, this may surprise you, nor the PTP but of freedom, democracy and fairness to all citizens whether they be rich, poor, from North or South, female or male.

Tis but a dream here but the way the elite use the military all through Thailand's recent history is reproachable and wrong just because they think the electorate 'got it wrong' far better convince, debate and show they have a BETTER WAY

sorry but guns and force, anywhere to take over a democracy, are abhorrent to me

[Baerboxer]

Could be perceived as "politically driven" in diplomatic lingo means it sure the hell was politically driven and I couldn't agree more.

Absolutely!

It would look much better when a Senate full with elected senators impeaches a former PM.

Result is the same though

The result would not be the same though as they would mostly be PTP

So what you are saying is, if a politically motivated senate refused to impeach Yingluck, that would be ok?

Sod the truth and justice. As long as it's all in favor of the Shins and they can get away with anything it's ok?

They impeachment should have been left - they should have concentrated on the criminal trial. And if guilty, actually punished a hiso elite Thai Chines Amply Rich billionaire in accordance with the law for once.

[Mr Yim]

"The perception of fairness is important," he said. "I'll be blunt here: When an elected leader is deposed, impeached by the authorities that implemented the coup, and then targeted with criminal charges while basic democratic processes and institutions are interrupted, the international community is left with the impression that these steps could be politically driven".

Elected? When did that happen then? She was then 'targeted' because she did wrong and, along with her scheming brother, is as bent as a nine-bob note. The US doesn't seem to have the full gist of this and should probably keep their nose out.

Perhaps, they should consult you before making a speech or issuing a statement about Thailand.

[lucky11]

And the USA's continual intervention isn't?

He ought to realise that Thailand isn't the USA and god forbid, I pray it doesn't end up like it - politically or otherwise!!! They are already trying to poison the Thai people with Mcdonalds and Burger King and now they are trying to run the country as they want it to be run. Why don't they butt out and concern themselves with their own dis-functioning government (showing democracy up in its worst light)!!

She (Yingluck) obviously flirted and fluttered her eyelashes at him as this clearly worked with Obama, with him going all gooey-eyed and acting like a 12 year old - Michelle wasn't terribly impressed by this I noticed. She also used her eyes to communicate and it wasn't sending a message of approval as to his schoolboy flirtatious display towards her.

Johnathon Head seems to have fallen under the same spell.

Edited January 27, 2015 by lucky11

[Baerboxer]

Is this the same America that described the military takeover as a coup but the more violent and repressive one in Egypt wasn't ?

Yep. The same America that had no problem supporting rebels who illegally overthrew the Ukraine President - and now say that was fine because he was corrupt.

It seems Obama's regime is a bit like PTP - say anything you like to suit the context.

Disappointing that even a senior American government official can openly lies and claim Yingluck was deposed. She dissolved parliament, she was removed for abusing authority whilst pursuing nepotism.

Seems like America under the current administration supports which version of events it prefers, nothing to do with truth or justice.

Wait, what was it that she did which was sooooo horrible and an abuse of authority? Come on, go into the details, please.

As for lies, please elaborate. What were the lies that the envoy told...

You know very well why Yingluck was removed by a court, in accordance with Thai law. She used her authority to remove someone, so someone else could be moved so one of her clan could be installed into a senior position where they wanted a "friendly face". A careless piece of rule breaking, but that's so often the case with Thaksin controlled regimes.

The statement again says Yingluck was deposed - she wasn't, as well you know. She dissolved parliament and became caretaker PM. She was then removed by a court of law, under Thai law, despite threats and intimidations of the judiciary by her supporters, for the transgression detailed above,

Why some chose to claim she was deposed by a coup, which is simply not true, is something you should ask them.

[smutcakes]

Or like your assertion the current PM is my mate - never met him, don't know him. I have met Dr.Thaksin btw, but he's not a mate either. I do know one ex PTP minister personally, and have done for over 20 years. He is a mate but we agree to disagree on some things, but agree on many more.

I would love to see Thailand as a democracy with a robust judicial process and a much fairer society. I saw several Ferraris, Lamborghinis, and Porsche last night parked at Crystal Park, along with 2 new Range Rovers, and a vintage cream colored Rolls Royce. And the min wage for the masses - 300 ThB per day with many having little access to education. That wealth polarization can be found throughout Asia - and dare I say maybe the West is going more that way.

Will the current government deliver real reform - we shall see. Will the be able to change the corrupt justice system where money and connections buy innocence or ridiculous low punishments and poor people are dealt with harshly for the most minor thing? Will the be able to make reforms that facilitate a fairer society free from the old guard hiso elite domination and influence - we shall see.

But one thing is for sure - PTP or any other Thaksin controlled government would never ever deliver those changes.

Has any Government in Thailand, civilian or military made or tried to make changes to the corrupt justice system? What makes you think this one will be any different.

Rather than make positive changes, they are more than likely going to further entrench the old guard hiso elite. Whilst Thaksin was not the answer to the issues, the real risk is that they are going to cut off any chance of people of real positive change ever getting the chance again.

[tbthailand]

Is this the same America that described the military takeover as a coup but the more violent and repressive one in Egypt wasn't ?

Yep. The same America that had no problem supporting rebels who illegally overthrew the Ukraine President - and now say that was fine because he was corrupt.

It seems Obama's regime is a bit like PTP - say anything you like to suit the context.

Disappointing that even a senior American government official can openly lies and claim Yingluck was deposed. She dissolved parliament, she was removed for abusing authority whilst pursuing nepotism.

Seems like America under the current administration supports which version of events it prefers, nothing to do with truth or justice.

Wait, what was it that she did which was sooooo horrible and an abuse of authority? Come on, go into the details, please.

As for lies, please elaborate. What were the lies that the envoy told...

You know very well why Yingluck was removed by a court, in accordance with Thai law. She used her authority to remove someone, so someone else could be moved so one of her clan could be installed into a senior position where they wanted a "friendly face". A careless piece of rule breaking, but that's so often the case with Thaksin controlled regimes.

The statement again says Yingluck was deposed - she wasn't, as well you know. She dissolved parliament and became caretaker PM. She was then removed by a court of law, under Thai law, despite threats and intimidations of the judiciary by her supporters, for the transgression detailed above,

Why some chose to claim she was deposed by a coup, which is simply not true, is something you should ask them.

no, go into detail. Which position was changed? How was such a transfer an abuse of power and not just normal executive action?

As for the envoy and his lies, let me take the liberty to copy the quote here.

"When an elected leader is deposed, impeached by the authorities that implemented the coup, and then targeted with criminal charges while basic democratic processes and institutions are interrupted, the international community is left with the impression that these steps could be politically driven," he said.

Assuming this is an accurate quote, please point out the lie.

Tip, read it carefully. Maybe even read it twice.

[Baerboxer]

Or like your assertion the current PM is my mate - never met him, don't know him. I have met Dr.Thaksin btw, but he's not a mate either. I do know one ex PTP minister personally, and have done for over 20 years. He is a mate but we agree to disagree on some things, but agree on many more.

I would love to see Thailand as a democracy with a robust judicial process and a much fairer society. I saw several Ferraris, Lamborghinis, and Porsche last night parked at Crystal Park, along with 2 new Range Rovers, and a vintage cream colored Rolls Royce. And the min wage for the masses - 300 ThB per day with many having little access to education. That wealth polarization can be found throughout Asia - and dare I say maybe the West is going more that way.

Will the current government deliver real reform - we shall see. Will the be able to change the corrupt justice system where money and connections buy innocence or ridiculous low punishments and poor people are dealt with harshly for the most minor thing? Will the be able to make reforms that facilitate a fairer society free from the old guard hiso elite domination and influence - we shall see.

But one thing is for sure - PTP or any other Thaksin controlled government would never ever deliver those changes.

Has any Government in Thailand, civilian or military made or tried to make changes to the corrupt justice system? What makes you think this one will be any different.

Rather than make positive changes, they are more than likely going to further entrench the old guard hiso elite. Whilst Thaksin was not the answer to the issues, the real risk is that they are going to cut off any chance of people of real positive change ever getting the chance again.

Read my post - I say we shall see. So far a large number of police, politicians, and civil servants have been charged or put under investigation. Let's see the outcomes in terms of trials and punishments and whether all corrupt are pursued regardless of political persuasion.

Let's see what the reforms are, of the police as well as political and governance processes. Then we'll know.

Thaksin is in it for himself, as are all is gang. Whether a separate people's party, democratic party aimed at creating real reform for a free, fair, democratic country making real reforms to benefit the people, could emerge out of this is debatable. But, I fear not. or certainly not short term.

The small % that control all the wealth, and are increasing that wealth at a growing rate, aren't going to give up their position easily. Life is too sweet for them, and in true Asian style they want to secure that for generations to come. Thaksin and his family are no different - just newer to the trough.

The growth in social media and information availability means more people are becoming aware of how things are, and what could and should be. That is the real hope for massive change.

[ExPratt]

BAERBOXER Or like your assertion the current PM is my mate - never met him, don't know him. I have met Dr.Thaksin btw, but he's not a mate either. I do know one ex PTP minister personally, and have done for over 20 years. He is a mate but we agree to disagree on some things, but agree on many more.

I would love to see Thailand as a democracy with a robust judicial process and a much fairer society. I saw several Ferraris, Lamborghinis, and Porsche last night parked at Crystal Park, along with 2 new Range Rovers, and a vintage cream colored Rolls Royce. And the min wage for the masses - 300 ThB per day with many having little access to education. That wealth polarization can be found throughout Asia - and dare I say maybe the West is going more that way.

Will the current government deliver real reform - we shall see. Will the be able to change the corrupt justice system where money and connections buy innocence or ridiculous low punishments and poor people are dealt with harshly for the most minor thing? Will the be able to make reforms that facilitate a fairer society free from the old guard hiso elite domination and influence - we shall see.

But one thing is for sure - PTP or any other Thaksin controlled government would never ever deliver those changes.

BAERBOXER. I actually agree with many of the points you make in your post. Where I maybe differ is my lack of optimism concerning reforms. I and probably many others believe that the reform is going to be a shifting of goalposts so that the representation in Parliament will not be in parallel with the votes cast. Or in some way the reform is manufactured so the Party with most seats do not rule solely. There must be something on the Juntas Agenda to tip the balance their/yellow way or what is the point of them holding and I'd say in a year clinging to power

Oh and I was told you were mates with the P-Man

Edited January 27, 2015 by ExPratt

[Eric Loh]

Could be perceived as "politically driven" in diplomatic lingo means it sure the hell was politically driven and I couldn't agree more.

Absolutely!

It would look much better when a Senate full with elected senators impeaches a former PM.

Result is the same though

The result would not be the same though as they would mostly be PTP

So what you are saying is, if a politically motivated senate refused to impeach Yingluck, that would be ok?

Sod the truth and justice. As long as it's all in favor of the Shins and they can get away with anything it's ok?

They impeachment should have been left - they should have concentrated on the criminal trial. And if guilty, actually punished a hiso elite Thai Chines Amply Rich billionaire in accordance with the law for once.

Interesting. A hypothetical political motivated elected senate refused to impeach. Sorry that did not happen but a political motivated appointed NLA did impeached Yingluck. And that is the truth and poor justice as the US envoy opined.

[smutcakes]

Or like your assertion the current PM is my mate - never met him, don't know him. I have met Dr.Thaksin btw, but he's not a mate either. I do know one ex PTP minister personally, and have done for over 20 years. He is a mate but we agree to disagree on some things, but agree on many more.

I would love to see Thailand as a democracy with a robust judicial process and a much fairer society. I saw several Ferraris, Lamborghinis, and Porsche last night parked at Crystal Park, along with 2 new Range Rovers, and a vintage cream colored Rolls Royce. And the min wage for the masses - 300 ThB per day with many having little access to education. That wealth polarization can be found throughout Asia - and dare I say maybe the West is going more that way.

Will the current government deliver real reform - we shall see. Will the be able to change the corrupt justice system where money and connections buy innocence or ridiculous low punishments and poor people are dealt with harshly for the most minor thing? Will the be able to make reforms that facilitate a fairer society free from the old guard hiso elite domination and influence - we shall see.

But one thing is for sure - PTP or any other Thaksin controlled government would never ever deliver those changes.

Has any Government in Thailand, civilian or military made or tried to make changes to the corrupt justice system? What makes you think this one will be any different.

Rather than make positive changes, they are more than likely going to further entrench the old guard hiso elite. Whilst Thaksin was not the answer to the issues, the real risk is that they are going to cut off any chance of people of real positive change ever getting the chance again.

Read my post - I say we shall see. So far a large number of police, politicians, and civil servants have been charged or put under investigation. Let's see the outcomes in terms of trials and punishments and whether all corrupt are pursued regardless of political persuasion.

Let's see what the reforms are, of the police as well as political and governance processes. Then we'll know.

Thaksin is in it for himself, as are all is gang. Whether a separate people's party, democratic party aimed at creating real reform for a free, fair, democratic country making real reforms to benefit the people, could emerge out of this is debatable. But, I fear not. or certainly not short term.

The small % that control all the wealth, and are increasing that wealth at a growing rate, aren't going to give up their position easily. Life is too sweet for them, and in true Asian style they want to secure that for generations to come. Thaksin and his family are no different - just newer to the trough.

The growth in social media and information availability means more people are becoming aware of how things are, and what could and should be. That is the real hope for massive change.

Generally i think we are agreeing what is wrong, but you are of the opinion that the military taking over and letting them have a go is acceptable. Yes it is unlikely they will make any changes, but so what...

Until the army is reined in and can no longer be used as a tool to protect the hierarchical structure then there will be no change. There is a lovely little relationship where the people at the top, the old political families, police, judiciary, civil service etc can rely on the army to protect their position and in return the army are awarded with great wealth and kudos. (and an unwritten law that they will never be interfered with). It is very difficult to see how it could really be changed without some kind of massive social unrest, whereby after much blood the army grunts refused to pick up their weapons to shoot other Thai's or turned upon there superiors.

[Baerboxer]

BAERBOXER Or like your assertion the current PM is my mate - never met him, don't know him. I have met Dr.Thaksin btw, but he's not a mate either. I do know one ex PTP minister personally, and have done for over 20 years. He is a mate but we agree to disagree on some things, but agree on many more.

I would love to see Thailand as a democracy with a robust judicial process and a much fairer society. I saw several Ferraris, Lamborghinis, and Porsche last night parked at Crystal Park, along with 2 new Range Rovers, and a vintage cream colored Rolls Royce. And the min wage for the masses - 300 ThB per day with many having little access to education. That wealth polarization can be found throughout Asia - and dare I say maybe the West is going more that way.

Will the current government deliver real reform - we shall see. Will the be able to change the corrupt justice system where money and connections buy innocence or ridiculous low punishments and poor people are dealt with harshly for the most minor thing? Will the be able to make reforms that facilitate a fairer society free from the old guard hiso elite domination and influence - we shall see.

But one thing is for sure - PTP or any other Thaksin controlled government would never ever deliver those changes.

BAERBOXER. I actually agree with many of the points you make in your post. Where I maybe differ is my lack of optimism concerning reforms. I and probably many others believe that the reform is going to be a shifting of goalposts so that the representation in Parliament will not be in parallel with the votes cast. Or in some way the reform is manufactured so the Party with most seats do not rule solely. There must be something on the Juntas Agenda to tip the balance their/yellow way or what is the point of them holding and I'd say in a year clinging to power

Oh and I was told you were mates with the P-Man

I don't know who told you that - but it was a lie, so I'd be careful what else that person tells you.

Not sure I'm optimistic, more like wishful thinking.

But if Thaksin had got back, can you imagine any real changes? Only more corruption and wondering how fast that 2.2 trillion baht could disappear.

[brucec64]

I am an American, and I think this guy should read before he speaks and check points before making an ass of himself!!

Maybe you should take your own advice.

[PepperMe]

When is the US going to keep its nose out of other peoples business?

They are on the verge of a social and economical meltdown, pushing Europe and others to war with Russia while they sit back and watch.....

This country will NOT be backing a US led coalition against the Bear, it will be backing Russia via China.... Get used to it.

[Baerboxer]

Or like your assertion the current PM is my mate - never met him, don't know him. I have met Dr.Thaksin btw, but he's not a mate either. I do know one ex PTP minister personally, and have done for over 20 years. He is a mate but we agree to disagree on some things, but agree on many more.

I would love to see Thailand as a democracy with a robust judicial process and a much fairer society. I saw several Ferraris, Lamborghinis, and Porsche last night parked at Crystal Park, along with 2 new Range Rovers, and a vintage cream colored Rolls Royce. And the min wage for the masses - 300 ThB per day with many having little access to education. That wealth polarization can be found throughout Asia - and dare I say maybe the West is going more that way.

Will the current government deliver real reform - we shall see. Will the be able to change the corrupt justice system where money and connections buy innocence or ridiculous low punishments and poor people are dealt with harshly for the most minor thing? Will the be able to make reforms that facilitate a fairer society free from the old guard hiso elite domination and influence - we shall see.

But one thing is for sure - PTP or any other Thaksin controlled government would never ever deliver those changes.

Has any Government in Thailand, civilian or military made or tried to make changes to the corrupt justice system? What makes you think this one will be any different.

Rather than make positive changes, they are more than likely going to further entrench the old guard hiso elite. Whilst Thaksin was not the answer to the issues, the real risk is that they are going to cut off any chance of people of real positive change ever getting the chance again.

Read my post - I say we shall see. So far a large number of police, politicians, and civil servants have been charged or put under investigation. Let's see the outcomes in terms of trials and punishments and whether all corrupt are pursued regardless of political persuasion.

Let's see what the reforms are, of the police as well as political and governance processes. Then we'll know.

Thaksin is in it for himself, as are all is gang. Whether a separate people's party, democratic party aimed at creating real reform for a free, fair, democratic country making real reforms to benefit the people, could emerge out of this is debatable. But, I fear not. or certainly not short term.

The small % that control all the wealth, and are increasing that wealth at a growing rate, aren't going to give up their position easily. Life is too sweet for them, and in true Asian style they want to secure that for generations to come. Thaksin and his family are no different - just newer to the trough.

The growth in social media and information availability means more people are becoming aware of how things are, and what could and should be. That is the real hope for massive change.

Generally i think we are agreeing what is wrong, but you are of the opinion that the military taking over and letting them have a go is acceptable. Yes it is unlikely they will make any changes, but so what...

Until the army is reined in and can no longer be used as a tool to protect the hierarchical structure then there will be no change. There is a lovely little relationship where the people at the top, the old political families, police, judiciary, civil service etc can rely on the army to protect their position and in return the army are awarded with great wealth and kudos. (and an unwritten law that they will never be interfered with). It is very difficult to see how it could really be changed without some kind of massive social unrest, whereby after much blood the army grunts refused to pick up their weapons to shoot other Thai's or turned upon there superiors.

I don't think the military taking over is desirable, but neither was the lawless situation that they replaced. Things were getting out of hand.

That little group at the top, is very cozy and normally tight apart from the inevitable power plays. The Shiniwatra family and their allies are a part of that group, and previously controlled the police. One of the new families in there.

Look at the massive social upheavals needed in other countries to bring about meaningful social change. Revolutions, civil wars, two World Wars. Using the UK as an example, many who fought in WW1 didn't have the right to vote. Incredible in the supposed mother of democracy. It took participation in two World Wars, f before Britain started to move to a fairer society. And their are still those who would move it back given the chance. It will take some significant event to be the catalyst for change in Thailand. And the click at the top you describe are aware of that and no doubt have plans in place to thwart any really significant change that would disadvantage them or threaten their advantages.

[smutcakes]

I don't think the military taking over is desirable, but neither was the lawless situation that they replaced. Things were getting out of hand.

That little group at the top, is very cozy and normally tight apart from the inevitable power plays. The Shiniwatra family and their allies are a part of that group, and previously controlled the police. One of the new families in there.

Look at the massive social upheavals needed in other countries to bring about meaningful social change. Revolutions, civil wars, two World Wars. Using the UK as an example, many who fought in WW1 didn't have the right to vote. Incredible in the supposed mother of democracy. It took participation in two World Wars, f before Britain started to move to a fairer society. And their are still those who would move it back given the chance. It will take some significant event to be the catalyst for change in Thailand. And the click at the top you describe are aware of that and no doubt have plans in place to thwart any really significant change that would disadvantage them or threaten their advantages.

Well one way for significant change would be to have continued the lawlessness corruption, until the breaking point was reached, and then change would have been inevitable.

The army coming in just resets everything again and stops that breaking point which probably needs to be reached to affect real change from being reached.

[Baerboxer]

So what you are saying is, if a politically motivated senate refused to impeach Yingluck, that would be ok?

Sod the truth and justice. As long as it's all in favor of the Shins and they can get away with anything it's ok?

They impeachment should have been left - they should have concentrated on the criminal trial. And if guilty, actually punished a hiso elite Thai Chines Amply Rich billionaire in accordance with the law for once.

Interesting. A hypothetical political motivated elected senate refused to impeach. Sorry that did not happen but a political motivated appointed NLA did impeached Yingluck. And that is the truth and poor justice as the US envoy opined.

The point is Eric, it's difficult to really see how the supposedly non political party members in the senate's decisions could be considered non political, which ever way they vote. For impeachment - told how to vote by the Junta. Against - paid off by Thaksin.

However, the next case is in a court.

Oh, but of course all the courts are biased against the Shins aren't they.

[Baerboxer]

I don't think the military taking over is desirable, but neither was the lawless situation that they replaced. Things were getting out of hand.

That little group at the top, is very cozy and normally tight apart from the inevitable power plays. The Shiniwatra family and their allies are a part of that group, and previously controlled the police. One of the new families in there.

Look at the massive social upheavals needed in other countries to bring about meaningful social change. Revolutions, civil wars, two World Wars. Using the UK as an example, many who fought in WW1 didn't have the right to vote. Incredible in the supposed mother of democracy. It took participation in two World Wars, f before Britain started to move to a fairer society. And their are still those who would move it back given the chance. It will take some significant event to be the catalyst for change in Thailand. And the click at the top you describe are aware of that and no doubt have plans in place to thwart any really significant change that would disadvantage them or threaten their advantages.

Well one way for significant change would be to have continued the lawlessness corruption, until the breaking point was reached, and then change would have been inevitable.

The army coming in just resets everything again and stops that breaking point which probably needs to be reached to affect real change from being reached.

The way you suggest would have led to more deaths in addition to those, including children, that had already been murdered; and ultimately civil war.

That will never currently be allowed to happen.

[mikemac]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

"I'll be blunt here: When an elected leader is deposed, impeached by the authorities that implemented the coup, and then targeted with criminal charges while basic democratic processes and institutions are interrupted, the international community is left with the impression that these steps could be politically driven".

Good work US

The World is Watching and the more it looks the harder it will be to bend the rules. If they can't bend the rules they cannot win an election

Thank You I was looking for a definition of Bull Shit and now I found it !! Once again Thank You

Wail and see how much bullshit it is when the ballot boxes open again

..................."Wail and see how much bullshit it is when the ballot boxes open again"......................

Yes, 500 baht a hit cow "patties" ! That's expensive bs !

[seajae]

yes, lets just ignore all the documented evidence that everyone else in the world is aware of and just go with what a not very intellectual, whinging woman said because she did not do her job as was required(he probably also wants to get into her pants like all the other ptp/red lovers in here). Its amazing how all these morons simply ignore the facts that have been shown to be true that actually back up the impeachment as well as charging her with dereliction of duty yet claim to be honest and truthful, what a laugh but typical red/ptp crap.

[rijb]

We have a quack-quack here and a quack-quack there, from the junta.

We have a denial-denial here and a denial-denial there, from their TVF supporters.

We have the rest of the world that sees an 'impeachment' that walks like a (politically motivated) duck, quacks like a (politically motivated) duck and ...

[smutcakes]

yes, lets just ignore all the documented evidence that everyone else in the world is aware of and just go with what a not very intellectual, whinging woman said because she did not do her job as was required(he probably also wants to get into her pants like all the other ptp/red lovers in here). Its amazing how all these morons simply ignore the facts that have been shown to be true that actually back up the impeachment as well as charging her with dereliction of duty yet claim to be honest and truthful, what a laugh but typical red/ptp crap.

Seajae, where would one be able to get a look at some of this documented evidence?

You do know newspaper editorials and reporting are not evidence.

[mikemac]

I don't think the military taking over is desirable, but neither was the lawless situation that they replaced. Things were getting out of hand.

That little group at the top, is very cozy and normally tight apart from the inevitable power plays. The Shiniwatra family and their allies are a part of that group, and previously controlled the police. One of the new families in there.

Look at the massive social upheavals needed in other countries to bring about meaningful social change. Revolutions, civil wars, two World Wars. Using the UK as an example, many who fought in WW1 didn't have the right to vote. Incredible in the supposed mother of democracy. It took participation in two World Wars, f before Britain started to move to a fairer society. And their are still those who would move it back given the chance. It will take some significant event to be the catalyst for change in Thailand. And the click at the top you describe are aware of that and no doubt have plans in place to thwart any really significant change that would disadvantage them or threaten their advantages.

Well one way for significant change would be to have continued the lawlessness corruption, until the breaking point was reached, and then change would have been inevitable.

The army coming in just resets everything again and stops that breaking point which probably needs to be reached to affect real change from being reached.

The way you suggest would have led to more deaths in addition to those, including children, that had already been murdered; and ultimately civil war.

That will never currently be allowed to happen.

It seems to me that the Military are darned if they do and darned if they don't.

What would people say if they just sat back and let things carry on the way they were going. People who dared to protest about the illegal goings on by the PTP being murdered in the streets by the Thaksin private army of thugs and killers.

Most of the people on this forum who are up in arms about the actions of the Military in Thailand come from countries where this scenario would never be played out. Try to imagine the President of the USA funding a private army to kill people who protested against his government.

While you are at it try to imagine the same guy being an wanted criminal and running the government from "self imposed exile".

You can call Yingluck's impeachment anything you like - politically driven, petrol driven, or gas driven, but the fact is she is not going to get way with what she did or did not do.

If she were allowed to get away with her "indiscretions" I would call that "politically driven", for sure.

Not sure what Daniel Russel is talking about, but I imagine he has his reasons for saying what he did.

[chotthee]

This american needs to be ban from Thailand forever.

No not he did not come to greet the Prime Minister, he also give a lecture that make the Prime Minister loose face.

YL case is NOT political. It is criminal.

[rickirs]

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The US doesn't have many friends in Asia. I am not surprised. Asylum for Yingluck in the US it is then.

Partners don't have to be friends. The USA has and had many relationships of common interests with communist China and will continue to do so even through China's current economic uncertainty. Being partners is not giving up a nation's sovereignty. USA has had and will continue to have disagreement/conflicts with some of its own staunchest allies.

[ExPratt]

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I don't think the military taking over is desirable, but neither was the lawless situation that they replaced. Things were getting out of hand.

That little group at the top, is very cozy and normally tight apart from the inevitable power plays. The Shiniwatra family and their allies are a part of that group, and previously controlled the police. One of the new families in there.

Look at the massive social upheavals needed in other countries to bring about meaningful social change. Revolutions, civil wars, two World Wars. Using the UK as an example, many who fought in WW1 didn't have the right to vote. Incredible in the supposed mother of democracy. It took participation in two World Wars, f before Britain started to move to a fairer society. And their are still those who would move it back given the chance. It will take some significant event to be the catalyst for change in Thailand. And the click at the top you describe are aware of that and no doubt have plans in place to thwart any really significant change that would disadvantage them or threaten their advantages.

Well one way for significant change would be to have continued the lawlessness corruption, until the breaking point was reached, and then change would have been inevitable.

The army coming in just resets everything again and stops that breaking point which probably needs to be reached to affect real change from being reached.

The way you suggest would have led to more deaths in addition to those, including children, that had already been murdered; and ultimately civil war.

That will never currently be allowed to happen.

It seems to me that the Military are darned if they do and darned if they don't.

What would people say if they just sat back and let things carry on the way they were going. People who dared to protest about the illegal goings on by the PTP being murdered in the streets by the Thaksin private army of thugs and killers.

Most of the people on this forum who are up in arms about the actions of the Military in Thailand come from countries where this scenario would never be played out. Try to imagine the President of the USA funding a private army to kill people who protested against his government.

While you are at it try to imagine the same guy being an wanted criminal and running the government from "self imposed exile".

You can call Yingluck's impeachment anything you like - politically driven, petrol driven, or gas driven, but the fact is she is not going to get way with what she did or did not do.

If she were allowed to get away with her "indiscretions" I would call that "politically driven", for sure.

Not sure what Daniel Russel is talking about, but I imagine he has his reasons for saying what he did.

They should have stopped the Bangkok protests and protected the Polling stations to allow an election to take place. They allowed Mob rule to prevent citizens from voting

Edited January 27, 2015 by ExPratt

[binjalin]

For once we agree about the same. May be not for the same reason though, as I would remind you of the Thaksin thinks Pheu Thai acts slogan.

I am no fan of Thaksin and, this may surprise you, nor the PTP but of freedom, democracy and fairness to all citizens whether they be rich, poor, from North or South, female or male.

Tis but a dream here but the way the elite use the military all through Thailand's recent history is reproachable and wrong just because they think the electorate 'got it wrong' far better convince, debate and show they have a BETTER WAY

sorry but guns and force, anywhere to take over a democracy, are abhorrent to me

Liar. You praise a proven liar and stand up for a regime that was openly run by a crooked fugitive who wasn't elected and refused accountability whilst allowing violence and murder of opponents.

Not once have I read a post by you that condemns Thaksin, Yingluck, Chalerm, Tarit or PTP; or anything they've said or done.

But of course you are no fan.............. they all just happen to be totally innocent champions of democracy, freedom and justice for all.

Yeah, sure, if you say so,

No lies from me just pure, unadulterated ignorance from YOU. You have demonstrated you have no clue about Thai politics or about the REAL reasons for all this. Just another uneducated bigot who has to stoop to calling other TVF posters liars.

[rubl]

Absolutely!

It would look much better when a Senate full with elected senators impeaches a former PM.

Result is the same though

The result would not be the same though as they would mostly be PTP

So what you are saying is, if a politically motivated senate refused to impeach Yingluck, that would be ok?

Sod the truth and justice. As long as it's all in favor of the Shins and they can get away with anything it's ok?

They impeachment should have been left - they should have concentrated on the criminal trial. And if guilty, actually punished a hiso elite Thai Chines Amply Rich billionaire in accordance with the law for once.

Interesting. A hypothetical political motivated elected senate refused to impeach. Sorry that did not happen but a political motivated appointed NLA did impeached Yingluck. And that is the truth and poor justice as the US envoy opined.

Interesting!

A hypothetically political motivated senate (76 elected, 74 appointed) never seemed to have got around to make a decision. Probably the senate election 31th of March followed by debates and behind-the-scene movements caused some delay and then the coup happened end of May.

Now that "refused to impeach" seems in a hypothetical other universe.

[NCC1701A]

Yes Thailand should distance it's self from the USA and focus on relatings with North Korea.

Of course Obama is going to have this policy. Clueless.

[rubl]

We have a quack-quack here and a quack-quack there, from the junta.

We have a denial-denial here and a denial-denial there, from their TVF supporters.

We have the rest of the world that sees an 'impeachment' that walks like a (politically motivated) duck, quacks like a (politically motivated) duck and ...

... and seems based on undeniable corruption and lack of proper answers from the former PM how she manages to lose 700 billion Baht on a self-financing scheme.