Tottenham Thread

[Abrak]

Oh and ABRAK , SOME GREAT POSTS'

You may well regret that statement.

The one thing I do think I am right about Spurs though is that Lewis should go. I think Spurs supporters suffer a bit of reverse logic here.

You dont complain about Lewis because Levy does such a good job that the club progresses without his support. While the reality is that as Levy does such a good job the owner should be investing in the business. I would guess if you were doing less well you would be like Everton and demanding that he invested but who wants to prop up a bad business.

And where you are being screwed here is that Lewis is looking to maximize his return on capital rather than create the most value for the club (or his NPV).

Edited February 20, 2012 by Abrak

[carmine]

Oh and ABRAK , SOME GREAT POSTS'

You may well regret that statement.

The one thing I do think I am right about Spurs though is that Lewis should go. I think Spurs supporters suffer a bit of reverse logic here.

You dont complain about Lewis because Levy does such a good job that the club progresses without his support. While the reality is that as Levy does such a good job the owner should be investing in the business. I would guess if you were doing less well you would be like Everton and demanding that he invested but who wants to prop up a bad business.

And where you are being screwed here is that Lewis is looking to maximize his return on capital rather than create the most value for the club (or his NPV).

I think most Spurs fans are aware that Bahama joe does b*gger all for the club and we find it very frustrating.

[rijit]

whether i agree with your post's is a different issue , but in general they are thoughtful interesting and bring some new angles to the table. But just a small point in your finacial theory its all about getting value for money, with our ari in charge it's working, without his rational and seemingly ability to get value for money, your theory or case around lack of , shall we call it speculative capital. will, I fear, probably be come apparent and an issue. But as ive said b4 I know nish bout big finances

[Abrak]

I think most Spurs fans are aware that Bahama joe does b*gger all for the club and we find it very frustrating.

But do you get my point that you dont care that much because you are doing fine without him, while the fact that you are doing so well is why he should be investing and you should be angry that he is not.

If you finance a new stadium out of your cashflows you are simply creating value for him at the expense of your football team. It is like paying him a huge dividend every year. So at the end of say 10 years he owns a big stadium and you have paid for it. If you look at Arsenal they have never paid dividends but now the owners have a big stadium.

And that is what Lewis is after. A stadium that he will own financed at zero cost to him and fully paid by supporters. If supporters had to pay Lewis 10m dividends every year they would be furious. But instead they are going to spend 20m every year financing a stadium that he owns at no cost at all.

[carmine]

I think most Spurs fans are aware that Bahama joe does b*gger all for the club and we find it very frustrating.

But do you get my point that you dont care that much because you are doing fine without him, while the fact that you are doing so well is why he should be investing and you should be angry that he is not.

If you finance a new stadium out of your cashflows you are simply creating value for him at the expense of your football team. It is like paying him a huge dividend every year. So at the end of say 10 years he owns a big stadium and you have paid for it. If you look at Arsenal they have never paid dividends but now the owners have a big stadium.

And that is what Lewis is after. A stadium that he will own financed at zero cost to him and fully paid by supporters. If supporters had to pay Lewis 10m dividends every year they would be furious. But instead they are going to spend 20m every year financing a stadium that he owns at no cost at all.

i do get it. You're preaching to the converted and i find it deeply frustrating that he does nothing for us.

[Abrak]

i do get it. You're preaching to the converted and i find it deeply frustrating that he does nothing for us.

No please understand that he is doing less than nothing. The stadium is built, you pay for it (over 10 or 20 years) and he owns it. Doing nothing to get something is doing a lot less than nothing. Essentially it is a con. You would riot if you had to pay Lewis 10m dividends every year because the money is going from the club to him. So he simply makes you pay for a new stadium that you think belongs to the club but belongs to him.

And that is why Lewis will not sell now because he knows the business will be worth more once the supporters have paid to build him a new stadium. And the reason the cost is so high and the financing essentially short term is because the people financing the asset dont own it.

[rijit]

I think most Spurs fans are aware that Bahama joe does b*gger all for the club and we find it very frustrating.

But do you get my point that you dont care that much because you are doing fine without him, while the fact that you are doing so well is why he should be investing and you should be angry that he is not.

If you finance a new stadium out of your cashflows you are simply creating value for him at the expense of your football team. It is like paying him a huge dividend every year. So at the end of say 10 years he owns a big stadium and you have paid for it. If you look at Arsenal they have never paid dividends but now the owners have a big stadium.

And that is what Lewis is after. A stadium that he will own financed at zero cost to him and fully paid by supporters. If supporters had to pay Lewis 10m dividends every year they would be furious. But instead they are going to spend 20m every year financing a stadium that he owns at no cost at all.

So lewis takes no cash out but leaves it in and expects a larger return for his prudence, can u blame him, so the costs of where we are are relatively high, that comes as a shock , i dont think so. Happy with this way ,probably not, would we be happy with the city/ chelsea way defo not,a compromise would be ideal but were dealing with really fuc_kin hard business men here and the nearest thing to sentiment they will allow them selves is that they will call themselves supporters, so no easy dead cert alternatives's.

[alfieconn]

Food for thought about Harry from a friend :

Love reading Kevin Pullein in the Racing Post, he is spot on, forget Harry Redknapps short time with Spurs, how many people would have been willing to accept him as England manager 3 years ago ? He is a 64 year old man being lauded as a saviour all based on the last 3 years of his 30 odd years in management, what has he done to warrant this super human status, he has won the same as Joe Royle as a manager !

[mrbojangles]

5) Your statement 'He will not and cannot be spending big again like he has done previously.' is simply wrong. He can spend as big again because he has a lot of money. I accept that it is a business as long as you accept the business is enhancing his reputation rather than making money.

He could if it wasn't for FFP cos he's loaded. But one way or another he/we will have to adhere.

[alfieconn]

i do get it. You're preaching to the converted and i find it deeply frustrating that he does nothing for us.

No please understand that he is doing less than nothing. The stadium is built, you pay for it (over 10 or 20 years) and he owns it. Doing nothing to get something is doing a lot less than nothing. Essentially it is a con. You would riot if you had to pay Lewis 10m dividends every year because the money is going from the club to him. So he simply makes you pay for a new stadium that you think belongs to the club but belongs to him.

And that is why Lewis will not sell now because he knows the business will be worth more once the supporters have paid to build him a new stadium. And the reason the cost is so high and the financing essentially short term is because the people financing the asset dont own it.

What are you on ? it's the same as any business, customers pay and the company expands the business on its profits, supporters are not paying directly for the stadium, where's the con ? not many people would sell a business if they know that it's going to be worth more in the future !

Tottenhams owners are no different to liverpools owners.

Edited February 20, 2012 by alfieconn

[Abrak]

i do get it. You're preaching to the converted and i find it deeply frustrating that he does nothing for us.

No please understand that he is doing less than nothing. The stadium is built, you pay for it (over 10 or 20 years) and he owns it. Doing nothing to get something is doing a lot less than nothing. Essentially it is a con. You would riot if you had to pay Lewis 10m dividends every year because the money is going from the club to him. So he simply makes you pay for a new stadium that you think belongs to the club but belongs to him.

And that is why Lewis will not sell now because he knows the business will be worth more once the supporters have paid to build him a new stadium. And the reason the cost is so high and the financing essentially short term is because the people financing the asset dont own it.

What are you on ? it's the same as any business, customers pay and the company expands the business on its profits, supporters are not paying directly for the stadium, where's the con ? not many people would sell a business if they know that it's going to be worth more in the future !

Tottenhams owners are no different to liverpools owners.

Ok fair point. At some point you have to run a club or any business in shareholders best interests.

The price of Arsenal shares has risen 20 times relative to the price of Spurs shares over the last 5 years. But actually Spurs have outperformed Arsenal in the League. You certainly cant have everything.

[Abrak]

What are you on ? it's the same as any business, customers pay and the company expands the business on its profits, supporters are not paying directly for the stadium, where's the con ? not many people would sell a business if they know that it's going to be worth more in the future !

Tottenhams owners are no different to liverpools owners.

Ok you got me. Do you really believe what you have said is true or were you just taking the piss?

Because it is totally wrong. 16 out of 20 clubs made a loss last year and their owners were 'supporters' who 'supported' the business to keep it alive. The total aggregate loss was 500m quid.

And in a lot of cases - Fulham, Bolton, Aston Villa - the owners know they are never going to get their money back. The only businesses that expanded did so on the back of subsidies from their parent companies like City.

Look Alfie if you knew how much more impressive it was for Spurs to progress without financial input relative to progressing in the league with a bucket load of money you would really appreciate your club. I think Lerner has put in 270m while Lewis has put in nothing.

And I do understand that Alfie wants to relegate my financial posts to the dustbin but when you realize that Capello (9 national titles out of 16, every club won the national title) is being replaced by Redknapp (1 FA) in some media frenzy then it is totally a reflection of irrationality.

But please, given the sacrifices other owners have made for their clubs, do not imply that because your new stadium is debt financed and therefore paid for by supporters, while because he knows the equity gains on the balance that he has given no equity, makes him clever is anything other than his wish to take advantage of the fact the you are financing his asset. Obviously it doiesnt, it just makes you wonder why you are are doing what you are doing.

Edited February 22, 2012 by Abrak

[carmine]

Have any of you drawn up your chosen shortlist to replace wobbly chops who is surely off in the summer.

Whoever it may be its going to be very important that its a manager that can work within budget constraints. On this basis Marcel Deschamps, and Unai Emery would be good. theres also a strong case for Moyes to see what he could do with a significantly stronger squad. Emery for example has had to sell his best players but still qualifies Valencia for CL. No mean achievement when you consider "the rest" in La Liga are fighting over two places.

Mourinho and Benitez's names are banded around but to my mind, with their spending habits they would not be realistic options.

Whilst the new manager won't have loads to spend it seems reasonably clear that there is enough for a decent purchase or two.

[MrRed]

Mourinho for sure if you want to push on.

[carmine]

Mourinho for sure if you want to push on.

No way he'd join us Red. Thats talk from Spurs fans who have no understanding of our situation financially. We couldn't give him the millions he'd want. were also about to start financing a new stadium. hence as i say we have to pick someone that can do the job regardless of huge chunks of cash.

Ferfuson wouldn't be a bad choice.

[Abrak]

Moyes is the obvious choice. He is the best manager to finance the new stadium. No way he is going to let you collapse or disappear in a tantrum. Boring as hell and a safe pair of hands. He also needs to get out of Everton fairly soon.

I think he is the perfect manager while you are building a new stadium. Afterwards, well you can see how he performs. But Moyes has never gone 'wrong' which is what you need rather than a manager that might be spectacularly good. The only problem is that the supporters might not like two incredibly competent but rather boring people running the club. But my suspicion is that Spurs supporters are perhaps the only people in the world who realize that swapping Capello (9 titles) for Redknapp isnt football but a total and utter joke.

And look Capello won the League with every club he managed. He won the CL. So feel free to say Harry is triffic but do not claim he is in the same League as Capello. Harry will be appointed because he claims to know absolutely nothing about anything so what he does is 'magic' and the only way that England are going to perform at the Euros is through magic. But we all know that Redknapp is not stupid but makes a living out of pretending to be.

[carmine]

It appears we are at full strength for the derby with the exceptions of possibly Kaboul and Sandro.

Has anyone heard about these two? Sandro not such a concern as we have Parker and Livermore i know but i really want to start with a king and Kaboul pairing

[smokie36]

I don't see a problem with playing Dawson...as long as King is available.

Its obvious we should play either Livermore or Sandro alongside Parker and crowd the midfield. Worked very well for the mackems last week.

Plus the Arse are awful down the flanks. My feeling is we should win this one at a canter....I know I know....!

Just can't help it this week...their fans seem in despair as well. Can my smile be any wider by Monday?

[MiG16]

what fan in despair

sheeesh

[smokie36]

what fan in despair

sheeesh

Not seen tigerfish for a while....

[MiG16]

hes busy planning our tactics

[smokie36]

hes busy planning our tactics

From what I hear he'd be better advised to get to work in the physio room.

Will you have eleven players to start the game?

[MiG16]

borrowed from Henry

"For years we have been used to being on top of Tottenham, by a mile, and now it is the opposite. But this is the derby, which you don't want to lose,.....[snip]

[smokie36]

borrowed from Henry

"For years we have been used to being on top of Tottenham, by a mile, and now it is the opposite. But this is the derby, which you don't want to lose,.....[snip]

He admits your team is crap?

Quality!!

[MiG16]

we show confidence = we are deluded

we give your team credit for what you have achieved = we are crap?

[smokie36]

we show confidence = we are deluded

we give your team credit for what you have achieved = we are crap?

The thing is migsy, your TEAM aren't showing much confidence on the pitch. Twenty minutes in and the passing game gets broken down and they fall to pieces.

Let's hear your opinion on that please.

[MiG16]

i will have to tell u offline

[tigerfish]

hes busy planning our tactics

From what I hear he'd be better advised to get to work in the physio room.

Will you have eleven players to start the game?

i am here don't worry and have been all a long keeping an eye on all the comments posted.

a 2 - 0 win against your lot will do nicely with a good performance, a well worked first goal and settled late on in controversial circumstances will do me. just to give Carmine something to whine and moan about.

after all this is the spuds thread ! isn't this the place where most of that goes on anyway ?

[carmine]

Just for your info Mr Tigerfish i only whinge as you put it when my gripe is backed up by conclusive video evidence unlike you pox of a manger that just stands there and lies infront of the camera.

Anyway, back to football and it looks like we're back to relative full strength for sunday, bar Sandro. kaboul if he is fit as i hear should partner King, no brainer there. I'd expect and hope to start with a 4-4-1-1 with an option when/if we take a second half lead of bringing on Livermore for VDV or Lennon.

I wonder whether they'll be displaying their usual arrogant insulting banners this time round? Doubt it somehow!

Edited February 25, 2012 by carmine

[rijit]

Almost a Fully fit squad, I'm so looking forward to this , Were so much stronger in almost every position then them. Barring van persie there's not one current arsenal player that would get in the tottenham team. saying that should be a good game .