Palestinian girl, 14, in Israel prison for throwing rocks

[Morch]

Rock throwing should be illegal for all ... boy / girl / Arab / Jew.

I get the "Palestinian resistance" thing, even though, rocks are not always thrown at armed soldiers, they are also thrown at unarmed civilians and cars causing deaths of civilians, and I get the "double standard" argument as far as enforcement Arabs vs. Jews ... but I don't get the complaint about why a girl should expect special treatment.

So you think an Israel girl throwing stones at Palestinian would be in jail as well? A German girl in Germany throwing stones would be in jail?

And no it is not causing deaths, she didn't throw stones from the bridge over the highway...In this case they would have shot her and any bystander.

And possession of a knife!!! Can it be more ridiculous?

I have no idea what are the punishments for throwing rocks and vehicles are in other countries. Also no idea how common that sort of things is and how serious law enforcement is. Perhaps you could enlighten us (not taking a shot, asking). I have no idea where she threw the rocks from, exactly - why would it have to be a bridge in order to be considered life threatening?

There were several incidents of rocks being thrown at passing vehicles in Thailand (some on highways, some from bridges) which go quite a bit of coverage at the time. Tempted to search what some posters thought about it then....

Possession of a knife is an offense, yes. Wouldn't hold for a Swiss Army knife, and usually to do with concealment. Having been sort of accidentally slashed (nothing big time) outside of a pub, I can relate to this bit.

[Morch]

As usual terribly one-sided Where is the justice in this?

WATCH: Israeli police let stone-throwing settlers walk away

http://972mag.com/watch-israeli-police-let-stone-throwing-settlers-walk-away/99740/

What was significant, I thought, about the video was that the egg delivery guy complained but didn't dare take any action. Neither did others. It says a lot about the subjugation of these people. In any other place in the world with racial/religious/cultural tensions, the stone-throwers would have been attacked. The Palestinians didn't dare. Very sad when you don't dare protect your property from thugs because you know the police will arrest you for violence but allow the perpetrators to walk.

The behavior of the illegal settlers is, on many occasions, disgusting. There is no arguing that, and no need to defend it. Ignoring that there were rocks thrown at them as well, or that the local did nothing to stop this is requires some effort, though. Israeli police is pretty useless in general, by the way, one of those rare things which achieve a consensus among all groups in the area.

[Morch]

It seems to me that the focus here is incorrectly on the sex of the offender. There is no reason she should get a pass for a violent act that a boy wouldn't.

You are going to get arrested or a suffer a major ass whopping if you throw stones at a policeman anywhere. Why should it be any different for Palestinians, whether they are men, women, girls or boys? If you don't want to get arrested, use your brains and don't attack the police!

Did she throw rocks at a policeman? Attacked the police?

[Morch]

Take note; if you have been to the area you will know that there are golf ball and baseball sized rocks everywhere

For you doubters; I suggest you let someone stand 15 feet away from you and hurl them at your head!

What would be the treatment of a 14 year old girl who was chucking fist sized rocks at passing cars in your country?

An appropriate punishment would be given to her with view to rehabilitation but certainly not putting her in GP.

What sort of rehabilitation would be appropriate in this case? Not baiting, just wondering.

There are no proper facilities for this sort of thing, mainly because in days past it was less of an issue (or less common, anyway). Palestinian kids would do that, but not wide spread as it is nowadays.

Agreed that GP is not the answer.

[Morch]

As usual terribly one-sided Where is the justice in this?

WATCH: Israeli police let stone-throwing settlers walk away

http://972mag.com/watch-israeli-police-let-stone-throwing-settlers-walk-away/99740/

So you completely ignore the fact that they were attacked first? Or is that ok? It is just Israelis that are not allowed to defend themselves?

What the ?*!? ...are the Israelis doing there in the first place to get stones thrown at them ...they are illegally occupying Palestinian land as the world community via UN resolutions have told them umpteen times. Get the hell out of occupying other people's land, return to the 67 borders and these things wont happen

What would you do if someone were occupying your land?... resist or roll over?

All civilian Israeli cars have the same plate numbers, black on yellow. There is no way for someone throwing a rock at a vehicle to know who's in it. And yes, there were more than one case of Israeli Arabs getting hurt.

With all due respect for your indignation, does throwing rocks at a car carrying a baby is legit? This is not a hypothetical case, such things happened and happen. Just wondering if everything goes. There are many ways to resist an occupying force, not all of them involve violence.

[Morch]

She's probably just practicing for the next adulterer who needs to be stoned.

Racist bigotry. Take note folks of the Zionist mentality delighting in the shackling and incarceration of a 14 year old girl.

I wish I could say I hope you never find yourself driving along and have someone try to throw a stone through your windscreen, but I guess you get my point.

I wouldn't drive along a road as an occupier in someone else's land lording over people I have occupied for the last 67 years.

It would seem that the main issue, as far as you are concerned, is the nationality of the driver - and this denotes if the actions is legit or not. So had this been taking place somewhere else, the rock throwing would be criminal?

[Morch]

Indeed. And such a profoundly sad question it is. This little girl, with her Ronaldo poster....what drove her?

Probably a milder version of what drove Aamer Alfar to blow himself up in a Tel Aviv market in 2004. As his heartbroken parents explained at the time:

"God will curse those who recruited Amar. I had heard the stories about recruiting children in Nablus but I didn't think they were true... Yes, it is difficult here for everyone because of the occupation, and life in Nablus is intolerable, but children should not be exploited in this way."

The Palestinian 'leaders' know full well that dim-bulb Western do-gooders can be easily inflamed by stories of 'victims of Israeli aggression', so they heartily endorse these actions.

Hardly worth a response, but you haven't a clue about the history of the present conflict, buddy.

Why is it not worth a response, exactly?

Because it does not fit with your adopted narrative? Because, Israel's actions non-withstanding, there is no incitement for violence by Palestinian leaders? Or is it suggested that such incitement is a positive thing?

[Morch]

I think his point is that many anti-Semites substitute the word "Zionists" for Jews to cover up their real intent. They are bigots, but smart enough to try to hide it.

Yes, it is very common to hide hatred against Jews and irrational opposition to the very existence of Israel behind the safer term anti-Zionist. It's curious how many "anti-Zionists" are against all peoples having the right to self determination in a nation state, such as Thais. Almost none. But the focus is only on JEWS not being worthy of the privilege of identification with a nation state.

There are a few problems with your victim mentality in this issue.

The anti-Zionists do not hide behind the term at all, and their focus is on Zionists (who happen to be Jews), not Jews per se. If their criticism of Zionists overflows, it is upon Israelis, not Jews per se, as it is the Israeli electorate that keeps on voting in the governments whose Zionist policies pervade.

And that should be fair enough...after all, look at all the condemnation of all Muslims because they don't speak out about Islamic extremism. Hmmm?

It should be pointed out that many Zionists are not Jews. Tony Blair, G W. Bush, Rupert Murdoch to name but three powerful people. Most of the true anti semites, the skinheaded knee jerk anti-semites wouldn't understand this at all, indeed the vast majority of them probably haven't got a clue what Zionist means! Criticism of Zioinists and their policies is perfectly legitimate. The problem is that when this criticism starts to hit the mark, sometimes Zionists have their own knee jerk response, they immediately accuse the critics of being ant-semite. Of course some of the critics are anti-semites, it is naive to suggest otherwise. But the actual premise of the criticism is still there. And will never be addressed because once the anti-semite card has been played, end of discussion. This is what happens, time after time. The questions raised in the criticism will be a taboo subject. People should be allowed to express their views of Israeli policies without always being called anti-semites as soon as the point they are making becomes a difficult one to answer by Zionist supporters. If i call Tony Blair a Zionist does that make me an Anti-Semite? Ridiculous!

Lovely one way of putting it. Now, try looking at it from the other side - can't say anything against the Palestinians without being tagged as a Zionist racist colonial callous Islamophobe.....you get the drift, don't you? Some people are, some aren't - same deal.

Most people using Zionist as form of implied derogatory term or as carrying a negative meaning are usually clueless (you know who you are...) as to what it implies in reality. Just as an example, its often touted as if the hatred expressed is directed at what is basically Israel's right wing political parties and such. Well, news flash - the main opposition party is called "The Zionist Camp" - yes, all them who knowledgeably said on previous topics that they hope they'd oust Netanyahu - you're now all Zionist supporters.

[Morch]

Zionism just means supporting the right of political self determination for the Jewish people. As Israel nation now exists the de facto modern meaning is support of Israel's right to exist. There are various flavors of Zionists. The west bank settler movement is part of right wing Zionism not all Zionism.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I think the world could live with that if that was all that was involved

Why cant Jews self determine themselves in New York or London or Johannesburg or within the 67 borders of Israel when the fighting stopped. ...and allow the Palestinians some self determination too as the British promised them 100 years ago.

Why do they always want more land occupying Palestinians like the 14 year old girl who is bravely resisting the bully the only way she can.

Dexterm, I don't know how to break it to you - Israel is a fact, and the Israelis will not go away. So, instead of lamenting about why things didn't turn out the way you would have liked, or indulging in fantasies about what might have been if - how about stopping to wallow in alternative histories, and a myriad of links to historical events (which could almost always be shown to be at least ambiguous, if not incorrect) and accepting certain realities?

Most of these pseudo-historical musings are irrelevant, even when they are accidentally correct. The Israelis will not simply pack their bags and leave because someone waves a Wikipedia link at them, and the state of Israel will not disappear even if proven to be a grave injustice.

And, yes, of course, the same goes for the Palestinians - they will not go away, they will get their statehood and be free to botch things up as they see fit. They will not be convinced that the Israelis are their best buddies or that they were not wronged by the World, and much to the chagrin of some, they will not suddenly realize that their homelands are actually somewhere else.

Re-hashing the same old beaten lines, even those debunked before, keeping alive some illusion that things can somehow be wholly undone - this serves nothing but making the possibility of reaching any accord a farther prospect. Not that I think words on TVF carry that much weight - talking about the position taken, as it is a rather common one.

Jews cannot self determine themselves in places which they have no cultural or historical reference to. Same as most people. It is one of those things. As per the comment on alternative histories - there was no one actively willing to take charge of all the territory conquered by Israel in 1967, at least not "after the fighting was over". The Arab position was to wait for the next round, and not to come to the negotiation table from a position of weakness.

And throwing rocks at passing vehicles is not bravery.

[Lissos]

"A 14-year-old girl won't pose any threat to soldiers' lives," said her father, Ali al-Khatib.

Local parents don't give a toss, quietly turning a blind eye to antics like it, continually using excuses such as that.

Local parents are to blame (and their parents before them). It keeps being passed on, overtly or as passive acceptance.

[Morch]

As usual terribly one-sided Where is the justice in this?

WATCH: Israeli police let stone-throwing settlers walk away

http://972mag.com/watch-israeli-police-let-stone-throwing-settlers-walk-away/99740/

So you completely ignore the fact that they were attacked first? Or is that ok? It is just Israelis that are not allowed to defend themselves?

What the ?*!? ...are the Israelis doing there in the first place to get stones thrown at them ...they are illegally occupying Palestinian land as the world community via UN resolutions have told them umpteen times. Get the hell out of occupying other people's land, return to the 67 borders and these things wont happen

What would you do if someone were occupying your land?... resist or roll over?

You don't alf talk some one sided biased crap.

The jews have been persecuted by the Syrians and arabs (Islamists) for the past 2 thousand years. It is not until after WW2 have they been able to return and this time make sure they are not persecuted any more..... I salute them.

Look around you a the attempted islamification of the entire world and how many people are being murdered and persecuted every day all over the place.... One lot of people stands up to it and the whole world stands up in bigoted condemnation.

Don't come on here spouting your bile in defense of terrorist, because that is what most of them are.... Radical lunatics wanting to take the entire world as their own and put anyone to death for stopping them.

Call me racist if you want, I couldn't care less..... Maybe i am...... But I am not as dangerous to world peace as YOU are.

some one sided biased crap

Umm....the Jews were persecuted by the Syrians(?) and them arabs(?) (Islamists)(?) for the past 2000 years?

There were no Muslims around 2000 years ago, no Arabs as such and certainly not Syrians in anything resembling the modern day Syria.

The Jews actually started returning before WWII....surely you can pick some relevant dates from the other pseudo-historians on this topic.

Israel itself got a sizable Arab Muslim minority, circa 20%....way more than any Western country. How, in your learned opinion is Israel "standing up" to them? Wonder if those Israelis are aware that most of them are terrorists....guess you better make a few calls to be on the safe side.

I seriously doubt anyone on TVF is dangerous, and more so as far as world peace is concerned.

Six glasses of water a day and some history books should sort things up.

[Morch]

More lies. The Arabs living in the area were mostly tenant farmers that owned no land. It was mostly owned by absentee landlords in Beirut, Damascus and Cairo.

Your thesis is utter BS ... but according to your logic ...people who rent property deserve to be ethnically cleansed and the foreign landlords such as Zionist Jews from Eastern Europe who own a mere 6% have the right to steal the remaining 94% dispossessing the existing resident population?

I have a strange feeling of deja vu (and a mental note to watch that film tomorrow) - anyway, so here is how it goes: Rich Arab landowner from wherever rents his land (and we could go into some detail as to how the tenants got there, but it doesn't matter all that much, really) to locals. The rental thing is actually more like a long term lease, and often contains elements reminiscent of serfdom. The landowner himself may never even pay the lands a visit, most things are handled by a representative. Along comes a group of evil Zionists and they make an offer to buy the land, often at an exorbitant price. The landlord figures this is too good to pass, money changes hands, papers are signed. The tenants are then faced with a harsh reality, especially seeing as in many cases they were leasing in the land for a very long while indeed. Were these transactions legal? For the most part, yes). Where they fair to the tenants? Duh...not (especially not considering things from a present day perspective).

The purchase of lands by legal means is nothing to do with ethnic cleansing. You might have better luck trying to apply it for other actions taken by them evil Zionists. Also, it was not stealing, far from it. And it was no dispossession, if the lands where lands where purchased legally.

[Morch]

So you completely ignore the fact that they were attacked first? Or is that ok? It is just Israelis that are not allowed to defend themselves?

What the ?*!? ...are the Israelis doing there in the first place to get stones thrown at them ...they are illegally occupying Palestinian land as the world community via UN resolutions have told them umpteen times. Get the hell out of occupying other people's land, return to the 67 borders and these things wont happen

What would you do if someone were occupying your land?... resist or roll over?

You don't alf talk some one sided biased crap.

The jews have been persecuted by the Syrians and arabs (Islamists) for the past 2 thousand years. It is not until after WW2 have they been able to return and this time make sure they are not persecuted any more..... I salute them.

Look around you a the attempted islamification of the entire world and how many people are being murdered and persecuted every day all over the place.... One lot of people stands up to it and the whole world stands up in bigoted condemnation.

Don't come on here spouting your bile in defense of terrorist, because that is what most of them are.... Radical lunatics wanting to take the entire world as their own and put anyone to death for stopping them.

Call me racist if you want, I couldn't care less..... Maybe i am...... But I am not as dangerous to world peace as YOU are.

Well dont complain to me when Israel starts the next world war with Iran...not that the Israelis will be there...USA and her allies will be doing the fighting for them as per usual in wars that they start but never send a single medic to help out with.

And it will probably be the body bags of your countrymen that come home first.

Going thorough the list of talking points?

No one is starting no WWII, other than in your fantasies (well, unfair- some competition on the Ukraine topics). And then that lovely bit of logic - Israel will start a world war with Iran, but will not be there. Yeah....

Care to share which wars the USA and allies fought on behalf of Israel? Or, how these wars were not fought on behalf of Big Oil? Or how they were not fought on behalf of Saudi Arabia? Or how this would even be "as usual".... You, me and everyone else knows that Israel was not asked, even discouraged from participating in any coalition. Why bring up exactly the same nonsense day in day out?

[PepperMe]

Rock throwing should be illegal for all ... boy / girl / Arab / Jew.

I get the "Palestinian resistance" thing, even though, rocks are not always thrown at armed soldiers, they are also thrown at unarmed civilians and cars causing deaths of civilians, and I get the "double standard" argument as far as enforcement Arabs vs. Jews ... but I don't get the complaint about why a girl should expect special treatment.

It is illegal. The issue is more to do with punishment meted in a biased manner.

Not having the proper facility to lock her in would be one reason for special treatment (different for male teens).

She is already getting special treatment..... 2 months in the pokey where she will be fed and kept away from harm.... If she was under Sharia, for a civil disorder offence she would likely be handed anything between 50 and 100 lashes, which for a 14 year old female is a death sentence, that is.... if she can survive an honour killing from her father and brother for bringing dishonour onto the family.

Yes guys........ The Palestinian Liberation Army who invaded Israels land as well as Jordan and Lebanon were exactly the same back in the 1970s as ISIS is today.... But the again the western media never tell you that do they..... They rely on 95% of the population not knowing the past history of the region so you swallow their crap..... and boy don't a lot swallow it.

[Lissos]

<snip> The Israelis will not simply pack their bags and leave because someone waves a Wikipedia link at them <snip>

[Lissos]

Most 14 year old girls are usually thinking about whoever they happen to have a crush on at that time, not throwing rocks at a perceived enemy.

My question is........What drives such perception?

Cultural narrative of local parents who wish to keep the wound open, and their active encouragment or passive acceptance of rock lobbing.

[Somtamnication]

Just like the Americans, with their "charge children as adults". Disgusting!

[sential]

Most 14 year old girls are usually thinking about whoever they happen to have a crush on at that time, not throwing rocks at a perceived enemy.

My question is........What drives such perception?

Radical Islamic terrorism.

Apartheid style incarceration by a terrorist state.

I struggle to grasp how blinded people are to somehow think its ok to jail a 14 year old for such a crime. You really are sick people.

[Somtamnication]

Ulysses G., on 28 Jan 2015 - 16:55, said:

car720, on 28 Jan 2015 - 16:50, said:

Most 14 year old girls are usually thinking about whoever they happen to have a crush on at that time, not throwing rocks at a perceived enemy.
My question is........What drives such perception?

Radical Islamic terrorism.

As opposed to Radical Zionism terrorism.

[Steely Dan]

Zionism just means supporting the right of political self determination for the Jewish people. As Israel nation now exists the de facto modern meaning is support of Israel's right to exist. There are various flavors of Zionists. The west bank settler movement is part of right wing Zionism not all Zionism.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I think the world could live with that if that was all that was involved

Why cant Jews self determine themselves in New York or London or Johannesburg or within the 67 borders of Israel when the fighting stopped. ...and allow the Palestinians some self determination too as the British promised them 100 years ago.

Why do they always want more land occupying Palestinians like the 14 year old girl who is bravely resisting the bully the only way she can.

Dexterm, I don't know how to break it to you - Israel is a fact, and the Israelis will not go away. So, instead of lamenting about why things didn't turn out the way you would have liked, or indulging in fantasies about what might have been if - how about stopping to wallow in alternative histories, and a myriad of links to historical events (which could almost always be shown to be at least ambiguous, if not incorrect) and accepting certain realities?

Most of these pseudo-historical musings are irrelevant, even when they are accidentally correct. The Israelis will not simply pack their bags and leave because someone waves a Wikipedia link at them, and the state of Israel will not disappear even if proven to be a grave injustice.

And, yes, of course, the same goes for the Palestinians - they will not go away, they will get their statehood and be free to botch things up as they see fit. They will not be convinced that the Israelis are their best buddies or that they were not wronged by the World, and much to the chagrin of some, they will not suddenly realize that their homelands are actually somewhere else.

Re-hashing the same old beaten lines, even those debunked before, keeping alive some illusion that things can somehow be wholly undone - this serves nothing but making the possibility of reaching any accord a farther prospect. Not that I think words on TVF carry that much weight - talking about the position taken, as it is a rather common one.

Jews cannot self determine themselves in places which they have no cultural or historical reference to. Same as most people. It is one of those things. As per the comment on alternative histories - there was no one actively willing to take charge of all the territory conquered by Israel in 1967, at least not "after the fighting was over". The Arab position was to wait for the next round, and not to come to the negotiation table from a position of weakness.

And throwing rocks at passing vehicles is not bravery.

Alternatively he can get a gull winged sports car, find a professor with a tinfoil hat and hope nobody throws stones at the car whilst he makes the leap to Lord Balfour's sitting room.

[Steely Dan]

Rock throwing should be illegal for all ... boy / girl / Arab / Jew.

I get the "Palestinian resistance" thing, even though, rocks are not always thrown at armed soldiers, they are also thrown at unarmed civilians and cars causing deaths of civilians, and I get the "double standard" argument as far as enforcement Arabs vs. Jews ... but I don't get the complaint about why a girl should expect special treatment.

It is illegal. The issue is more to do with punishment meted in a biased manner.

Not having the proper facility to lock her in would be one reason for special treatment (different for male teens).

She is already getting special treatment..... 2 months in the pokey where she will be fed and kept away from harm.... If she was under Sharia, for a civil disorder offence she would likely be handed anything between 50 and 100 lashes, which for a 14 year old female is a death sentence, that is.... if she can survive an honour killing from her father and brother for bringing dishonour onto the family.

Yes guys........ The Palestinian Liberation Army who invaded Israels land as well as Jordan and Lebanon were exactly the same back in the 1970s as ISIS is today.... But the again the western media never tell you that do they..... They rely on 95% of the population not knowing the past history of the region so you swallow their crap..... and boy don't a lot swallow it.

Indeed she could be murdered for honor for holding hands with a boy, which wouldn't result in ten pages of bile here.

[daveAustin]

The question one needs to ask themselves is, does Israel send its own minors down for throwing rocks?

[Jay Sata]

Most 14 year old girls are usually thinking about whoever they happen to have a crush on at that time, not throwing rocks at a perceived enemy.

My question is........What drives such perception?

Radical Islamic terrorism.

Apartheid style incarceration by a terrorist state.

I struggle to grasp how blinded people are to somehow think its ok to jail a 14 year old for such a crime. You really are sick people.

Agreed.

There is another thread running on the negative German perception of Israel.

Stories like this appearing in the worlds press does nothing to help the right wing Zionist government in charge.

[Seastallion]

I think his point is that many anti-Semites substitute the word "Zionists" for Jews to cover up their real intent. They are bigots, but smart enough to try to hide it.

Yes, it is very common to hide hatred against Jews and irrational opposition to the very existence of Israel behind the safer term anti-Zionist. It's curious how many "anti-Zionists" are against all peoples having the right to self determination in a nation state, such as Thais. Almost none. But the focus is only on JEWS not being worthy of the privilege of identification with a nation state.

There are a few problems with your victim mentality in this issue.

The anti-Zionists do not hide behind the term at all, and their focus is on Zionists (who happen to be Jews), not Jews per se. If their criticism of Zionists overflows, it is upon Israelis, not Jews per se, as it is the Israeli electorate that keeps on voting in the governments whose Zionist policies pervade.

And that should be fair enough...after all, look at all the condemnation of all Muslims because they don't speak out about Islamic extremism. Hmmm?

I do wish to specifically address one part above: "the condemnation of muslims because they dont speak out about islamic extremism." I will not even offer that your analogy fails; that's not my point.

I wish to state, though, that the reason muslims are "condemned" for not speaking out is because increasingly it is broadly realized they are the only ones who can bring sanity to the situation. It is they, this silent "moderate" majority that the world looks to. Indeed, even amongst themselves muslims concede this is an intrafaith issue, of sorts, and so on. So, the accusation that we need more of them to protest they slide to the right of their faith is a valid need. Admonishing them for not doing so seems like a fair consequence of silence. This does not broadly impugn or injure them. The reprimand to moderate muslims is basically to join the world of conscience and draw a line in the sand stating opposition. It is not enough that few here and there do so. In a world body of 1.7 billion muslims, much more should be done. Therefore, equating the condemnation of muslims for not speaking out about extremism seems a bit of a reach. Perhaps not the best example of your point. Perhaps.

Seastallion, I believe their are many good men and women out there with the intellectual penetration to note the difference between jews and nationalist Zionists, and oppose Zionism only. Jeez, with such precision intellect and grasping the issue that makes them sick, why on earth would they pollute their observation with base disdain for jews generally? No, there are many people who just dont like the concept of Zionism; I buy it. But UG and Jingthing are correct. I have noted with gut intuition many who actually appear to hide behind the condemnation of Zionism and in varying ways reveal that they just dont like jews. I see a lot of this on TV, and elsewhere. So, it is not a monolithic opposition to jews and/or Zionism- it is validly a mix. The problem is, antisemitism is consistently rising and so where it rears its head it should be called. I dont think this is henny penny as much as it is ringing alarms.

If we are talking in the context of this forum, and I believe UG and JT's comments are directed at members here (which is not to restrict the conversation...I think it can apply anywhere, but we have all the comments and attitudes on display right here), and in particular from my own POV, I will not be called an anti-semite because I know that I am not. I also do not accept that any of the major contributors here with whom the likes of UG et al are always at odds are anti-semites, either.

The word "anti-semite" holds (or held) an almost magical power, a power much stronger than "racist" or "bigot", so that the label, once applied, makes the recipient unacceptable in decent society, an outcast. That power is diminishing as it becomes more and more apparent that the label has been abused, and continues to be abused, for political point-scoring or mudslinging. I detect a frantic resurgence of the use (and abuse) of the word. It does, after all, attempt to divert from valid criticism of Israel and Zionism.

(A recent video posted by JT which he tried to show how anti-semitism is real, in fact clearly showed how the anti-semite label is abused....the Jewish councilman making an overly emotional tirade against the unfurling of the Palestinian flag was calling it anti-semitism, when in fact it was a political comment against Israel' and had nothing whatsoever to do with a display of anti-semitism.......he was in fact doing what UG and JT do here; trying to make out that political condemnation of Israel is an expression of the nasty anti-semite. A fallacy.)

The oddly funny thing is, even if the anti-semite label was applied accurately upon someone who is condemning Zionist expansion policies, the policies remain condemned and criticised....it should not matter what the prejudices of the critic are if he is making a valid point, and yet, somehow, those that apply the label seem to hope that that is enough to refute the condemnation. It is not.

Also in the context of discussions on this forum...my anti-Muslim analogy does indeed hold well. I made the comment in conjunction with the idea that anti-Zion may overflow into anti_Israeli sentiments, but not anti-Jew sentiments, anticipating the cries of "But not all Israelis support the Zionists, so don't blame them"

[CraigSchuler]

A little shock therapy might be just what the doctor ordered!

[Scott]

Numerous off-topic posts and replies, especially those with irrelevant and off-topic videos have been removed.

Stay on topic.

[Ulysses G.]

If we are talking in the context of this forum, and I believe UG and JT's comments are directed at members here (which is not to restrict the conversation...I think it can apply anywhere, but we have all the comments and attitudes on display right here), and in particular from my own POV, I will not be called an anti-semite because I know that I am not. I also do not accept that any of the major contributors here with whom the likes of UG et al are always at odds are anti-semites, either.

My comments about anti-Semites are not restricted to the members here, but it is a fact that many of the most obsessive Israel-bashers on the forum have had obviously anti-Semitic comments reported and deleted by the moderators over many years. Of course bigots deny being anti-Semites. That goes with the territory.

As far as anti-Israel sentiment, in general, goes, the Gaza demonstrations last summer made it obvious how much of it is inspired by anti-Semitism and even the media acknowledged it in a big way.

SARCELLES, France — From the immigrant enclaves of the Parisian suburbs to the drizzly bureaucratic city of Brussels to the industrial heartland of Germany, Europe’s old demon returned this summer. “Death to the Jews!” shouted protesters at pro-Palestinian rallies in Belgium and France. “Gas the Jews!” yelled marchers at a similar protest in Germany.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/24/world/europe/europes-anti-semitism-comes-out-of-shadows.html?_r=0

In another UK demonstration, demonstrators carried signs saying, “Hitler you were right!” according to The Daily Mail.

Anti-Semitism in France has been more intense and occasionally turned violent.

Rioters attacked Jewish-owned stores on July 20 in the French town of Sarcelles, near Paris. Algerian demonstrators rioted in Paris, hurling chairs and other objects to protest Israel’s bombing of Gaza. Protesters attacked a synagogue in Paris and some chanted “Death to Jews.”

http://www.algemeiner.com/2014/08/11/anti-semitic-muslim-protesters-chant-heil-hitler-in-london/

Germany's Frank-Walter Steinmeier, France's Laurent Fabius and Italy's Federica Mogherini met in the EU capital today after several pro-Palestinian protests turned violent, as chants praising the Nazi extermination of Jews were heard in Berlin and Paris.

http://www.newsweek.com/germany-france-and-italy-and-condemn-anti-semitic-protesters-after-violent-clashes-260463

Edited January 29, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[metisdead]

More irrelevant and off topic videos have been removed.

[Morch]

Rock throwing should be illegal for all ... boy / girl / Arab / Jew.

I get the "Palestinian resistance" thing, even though, rocks are not always thrown at armed soldiers, they are also thrown at unarmed civilians and cars causing deaths of civilians, and I get the "double standard" argument as far as enforcement Arabs vs. Jews ... but I don't get the complaint about why a girl should expect special treatment.

It is illegal. The issue is more to do with punishment meted in a biased manner.

Not having the proper facility to lock her in would be one reason for special treatment (different for male teens).

She is already getting special treatment..... 2 months in the pokey where she will be fed and kept away from harm.... If she was under Sharia, for a civil disorder offence she would likely be handed anything between 50 and 100 lashes, which for a 14 year old female is a death sentence, that is.... if she can survive an honour killing from her father and brother for bringing dishonour onto the family.

Yes guys........ The Palestinian Liberation Army who invaded Israels land as well as Jordan and Lebanon were exactly the same back in the 1970s as ISIS is today.... But the again the western media never tell you that do they..... They rely on 95% of the population not knowing the past history of the region so you swallow their crap..... and boy don't a lot swallow it.

More "informed" posting....

The point is not what would have happened to her under Sharia law. The West Bank is not under Sharia law, but under Israeli martial law (well, at least the Palestinians are, Israeli illegal settlers are judged under Israeli law). Even by Israeli martial law standards this application of regulations is over the top, if it wasn't it would not make such headlines. Needless to say that when the law is not applied in a consistent manner and having two sets of legal systems to deal with similar issues makes things worse. If the above was an attempt to demonstrate that in an alternate reality things could have been different, then yes - just that it is much relevant to the issue, and so are the fictional examples given.

The PLO invaded Israel? When was that? The PLO aims included establishing an Islamic caliphate? Even a Pan-Arab state? Western media does not tell this because it is simply untrue. But obviously, you know better....

[jacky54]

She's probably just practicing for the next adulterer who needs to be stoned.

Racist bigotry. Take note folks of the Zionist mentality delighting in the shackling and incarceration of a 14 year old girl.

No race mentioned and her religion has all races in it so how 'racist'? She should have gotten a sharia punishment and been given a good whipping, little brat needs a lesson