outbreak of measles in California, is that a problem in Thailand too ?

[BKKdreaming]

Hi

there is an outbreak of measles that started in Disneyland a few weeks ago ,

So with that we get too much information about measles on radio and TV ,

measles is a highly contagious viral infection that can be spread easily in a crowd ,

So my question is do Thais get immunization shots for measles as a regular thing ?

[NeverSure]

There was a time when some thought that the measles vaccine had eradicated the disease. Obviously it hasn't but many haven't been vaccinated. It's nasty stuff, can be fatal, and spreads very easily. I'd have kids and myself vaccinated no matter where I was.

Edit. People now who have no exposure to the disease at all are really vulnerable. It's like a brand new disease to them. They didn't even inherit any antibodies from their mothers. I'm not predicting a massive outbreak, but there's really nothing to stop it unless we get lucky.

Edited January 29, 2015 by NeverSure

[attrayant]

According to the WHO, Thailand's vaccination rate among 1-year olds was 99% in 2013. That's better than some developed western countries I could name.

http://apps.who.int/gho/data/node.main.A826

That means measles-wise, Thailand is safer than the USA right now. If you are person who cannot receive the vaccine (because you're too young, too old/infirm or immunocompromised), your chances of catching the measles in Thailand is extremely small thanks to herd immunity.

Edited January 29, 2015 by attrayant

[Toknarok]

Thailand has an excellent record of vaccination of children against measles. 99% in 2013 whereas the United States only had 91% of their children vaccinated. This is largely due to an anti vaccine campaign led by an osteopath quack Sherri Tenpenny who (falsely)claimed amongst other things that vaccination can cause autism. The Californian government has responded to the outbreak by stating that no child will be admitted to a public school unless the child has been vaccinated.

[Eliot Rosewater]

I blame this problem on the nut cases (mostly in CA) who refuse to vaccinate their children. I also read a story about a poor little boy with leukemia in the same area who couldn't be vaccinated because of his condition; the kids at his school who are not vaccinated (by choice of the parents) put the boy at grave risk. He is asking the school to not allow the un vaccinated children to attend school.

The irony is; it is against the rules to bring food with peanuts in it to school due to putting allergic children at risk, but you can refuse to vaccinate your child and still send them to school

[h90]

Thailand has an excellent record of vaccination of children against measles. 99% in 2013 whereas the United States only had 91% of their children vaccinated. This is largely due to an anti vaccine campaign led by an osteopath quack Sherri Tenpenny who (falsely)claimed amongst other things that vaccination can cause autism. The Californian government has responded to the outbreak by stating that no child will be admitted to a public school unless the child has been vaccinated.

Well there are so many reports of problems with vaccinations, that I wouldn't automatically assume that all are wrong. I had "surprising" strong reaction to two vaccinations myself (no autism, just an unusual immune responds).

And measles is something every child of my age got and it was considered as not dangerous at this time.

[attrayant]

Well there are so many reports of problems with vaccinations, that I wouldn't automatically assume that all are wrong.

Which is fine, as long as you don't jump to the opposite (and equally unsupportable) conclusion that they are all true.

Please let's not take this thread down the anti-vax rabbit hole.

[BKKdreaming]

Thailand has an excellent record of vaccination of children against measles. 99% in 2013 whereas the United States only had 91% of their children vaccinated. This is largely due to an anti vaccine campaign led by an osteopath quack Sherri Tenpenny who (falsely)claimed amongst other things that vaccination can cause autism. The Californian government has responded to the outbreak by stating that no child will be admitted to a public school unless the child has been vaccinated.

yep we are the state of fruits and nuts

I hope it is the start of vaccinations being normal and not a political issue......

[DP25]

You don't need to worry about it in Thailand. You ever notice those shoulder scars most Thais have? Vaccine scars. Virtually all Thais are vaccinated against measles as well as smallpox and other diseases.

The outbreak in California is because some lunatics are refusing to vaccinate their kids. The disease, which was virtually eradicated in the US, is then imported from abroad, and infects to unvaccinated children. It also is also now infecting children who are too young to be vaccinated.

The anti vaccine insanity hasn't infected Thailand, at least not yet.

[metisdead]

Moved to the Health, Body and Medicine forum.

[lopburi3]

As with most such outbreaks it is almost all among those that have not been vaccinated - as said parents who believe they are right and the world is wrong and there children should not receive the benefit of medical advancements because of cult fiction writers saying it is wrong/a danger/cause of other issues. A recent (this week) comedy channel discussion.

http://www.cc.com/full-episodes/y1snfo/the-nightly-show-january-27--2015---vaccines-season-1-ep-01006

[h90]

Well there are so many reports of problems with vaccinations, that I wouldn't automatically assume that all are wrong.

Which is fine, as long as you don't jump to the opposite (and equally unsupportable) conclusion that they are all true.

Please let's not take this thread down the anti-vax rabbit hole.

Most probably most are not true or just funny coincidents. From millions of people , every month some of them get a problem. If you vaccinate them all, some of the problems will happen just in the month the vaccination happened. Actually even more when you put stress on the immune system, which would happen also in a real infection.

But if it is smart to fill up babies younger 6 month with vaccines for diseases that aren't serious is another question. No question that smallpox and polio must be vaccinated, but all these harmless things like measles, flu or mumps that every kid had without any problems? I am not sure about that.

[inbangkok]

Well there are so many reports of problems with vaccinations, that I wouldn't automatically assume that all are wrong.

Which is fine, as long as you don't jump to the opposite (and equally unsupportable) conclusion that they are all true.

Please let's not take this thread down the anti-vax rabbit hole.

Most probably most are not true or just funny coincidents. From millions of people , every month some of them get a problem. If you vaccinate them all, some of the problems will happen just in the month the vaccination happened. Actually even more when you put stress on the immune system, which would happen also in a real infection.

But if it is smart to fill up babies younger 6 month with vaccines for diseases that aren't serious is another question. No question that smallpox and polio must be vaccinated, but all these harmless things like measles, flu or mumps that every kid had without any problems? I am not sure about that.

Keep telling yourself that measles, flu, and mumps are no problem for kids......lol

[attrayant]

Those vaccines are given after the age of 6 months.

Risk assessment is a tricky thing, and in general humans are absolutely terrible at evaluating it. Nobody claims that vaccines are 100% safe and effective. Yes, there is the occasional - very rare - adverse reaction that is actually caused by the vaccine. But the potential consequences of not vaccinating are so much worse by many orders of magnitude, that the decision is... well, should be a no-brainer.

Many governments have mandatory seat belt laws, even though there is the occasional death that was actually caused (or at least assisted) by a malfunctioning seat belt. But we still have the law and people still recognize the value in using them.

[lopburi3]

No question that smallpox and polio must be vaccinated, but all these harmless things like measles, flu or mumps that every kid had without any problems? I am not sure about that.

Are you serious?

Key facts

• Measles is one of the leading causes of death among young children even though a safe and cost-effective vaccine is available.
• In 2013, there were 145 700 measles deaths globally – about 400 deaths every day or 16 deaths every hour.
• Measles vaccination resulted in a 75% drop in measles deaths between 2000 and 2013 worldwide.
• In 2013, about 84% of the world's children received one dose of measles vaccine by their first birthday through routine health services – up from 73% in 2000.
• During 2000-2013, measles vaccination prevented an estimated 15.6 million deaths making measles vaccine one of the best buys in public health.

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs286/en/

[h90]

Those vaccines are given after the age of 6 months.

Risk assessment is a tricky thing, and in general humans are absolutely terrible at evaluating it. Nobody claims that vaccines are 100% safe and effective. Yes, there is the occasional - very rare - adverse reaction that is actually caused by the vaccine. But the potential consequences of not vaccinating are so much worse by many orders of magnitude, that the decision is... well, should be a no-brainer.

Many governments have mandatory seat belt laws, even though there is the occasional death that was actually caused (or at least assisted) by a malfunctioning seat belt. But we still have the law and people still recognize the value in using them.

There was just this big issue in the alternative news in the USA when someone from government told that the vaccinations younger than 6 month are useless but it is good to train the parents. I didn't listen to the details as I am not in the USA. So it might has been just nonsense....

Adverse Reaction: yes they aren't much of an issue, but there is always the consideration that MANY vaccinations MAY have some negative effects.

By the way I never understood the mandatory seat belt laws....while I complete agree that the advantages are overwhelming, it should be everyones private decision if he wants to use them or not. I would surely one who always uses them, but I don't like to be forced. With vaccines there is the issue that you may infect someone else if you aren't vaccinated but with the seat belts?

[h90]

Well there are so many reports of problems with vaccinations, that I wouldn't automatically assume that all are wrong.

Which is fine, as long as you don't jump to the opposite (and equally unsupportable) conclusion that they are all true.

Please let's not take this thread down the anti-vax rabbit hole.

Most probably most are not true or just funny coincidents. From millions of people , every month some of them get a problem. If you vaccinate them all, some of the problems will happen just in the month the vaccination happened. Actually even more when you put stress on the immune system, which would happen also in a real infection.

But if it is smart to fill up babies younger 6 month with vaccines for diseases that aren't serious is another question. No question that smallpox and polio must be vaccinated, but all these harmless things like measles, flu or mumps that every kid had without any problems? I am not sure about that.

Keep telling yourself that measles, flu, and mumps are no problem for kids......lol

they weren't 40 years ago and I had them all.

But I know for some magical reason they got now terrible dangerous....

[inbangkok]

Not magic.... If you understand even basic science and how these things work.... You would understand......... And they were still dangerous 40 years ago....You still insist people don't die of the flu....... There is not really a whole lot that can be said to reason with people like you.

Edited January 30, 2015 by inbangkok

[attrayant]

By the way I never understood the mandatory seat belt laws....while I complete agree that the advantages are overwhelming, it should be everyones private decision if he wants to use them or not.

The justification used is similar to that for smoking bans. If I spend six months in the hospital on life support because I wasn't wearing a seat belt, and if I can't pay the tab, you and everybody else ends up footing the bill (through increased insurance premiums & hospital service fees) and society in general takes a hit from my lost productivity - that's eight or twelve months I'm not working, not paying taxes, etc.) It gets worse if I die - maybe my children become wards of the state with all that administrative overhead paid for out of tax money.

Extremely minor inconvenience to me, but a huge net benefit to society. Sometimes nanny laws are appropriate.

Edited January 30, 2015 by attrayant

[Toknarok]

Well there are so many reports of problems with vaccinations, that I wouldn't automatically assume that all are wrong.

Which is fine, as long as you don't jump to the opposite (and equally unsupportable) conclusion that they are all true.

Please let's not take this thread down the anti-vax rabbit hole.

Most probably most are not true or just funny coincidents. From millions of people , every month some of them get a problem. If you vaccinate them all, some of the problems will happen just in the month the vaccination happened. Actually even more when you put stress on the immune system, which would happen also in a real infection.

But if it is smart to fill up babies younger 6 month with vaccines for diseases that aren't serious is another question. No question that smallpox and polio must be vaccinated, but all these harmless things like measles, flu or mumps that every kid had without any problems? I am not sure about that.

HARMLESS things like measles. Who are you, you clown? a medical expert? I wish you had been there when a bloke I knew was told by the medical team treating his ten year old that his son had died of measles.

[attrayant]

The "harmless" remark may have been ill-considered, but it's a good example of how complacent we've become about our accomplishments in first world countries. A few days ago, Melinda Gates had some powerful words for those of us who might have forgotten what measles looks like:

We take vaccines so for granted in the United States. Women in the developing world know the power of vaccines. They will walk 10 kilometers in the heat with their child and line up to get a vaccine, because they have seen death. [Americans have] forgotten what measles deaths look like.

[Sheryl]

While most chldren will indeed get over measles just fine, a minority suffer serious effects and even death.

The percentage of complications is much higher in populations which are under-nourished (fatality can reach 20%) but even in countries with negligible child malnutrition, the risk of death or serious disability from measles is considerably greater than the risk of death or serious disability from the vaccine. (neither risk is 0).

Which is why vaccination is recommended.

Since neither the disease nor the vaccine always cause serious problems, and neither the vaccine nor the disease never cause serious problems, you cannot conclude anything based on what happened to specific individuals. It has to be assessed statistically on a large scale to determine which, on the balance, will cause the fewest people to suffer an adverse outcome. This is what public health authorities do when they decide on vaccine recommendations.

Vaccination rates are quite high in Thailand though there have been pockets of outbreaks, if I recall correctly last one for measles involved "stateless" ethnic minority communities

[kotsak]

[inbangkok]

The "harmless" remark may have been ill-considered, but it's a good example of how complacent we've become about our accomplishments in first world countries. A few days ago, Melinda Gates had some powerful words for those of us who might have forgotten what measles looks like:

We take vaccines so for granted in the United States. Women in the developing world know the power of vaccines. They will walk 10 kilometers in the heat with their child and line up to get a vaccine, because they have seen death. [Americans have] forgotten what measles deaths look like.

It is not ill-considered. He started a whole thread a while back about how flu shots are a conspiracy for hospitals to earn more money while insisting no one dies from the flu. The reality is of course, thousands die every year. This is the type of stuff he truly believes.

[BKKdreaming]

I am pretty sure many of us had measles when we were a kid and survived ,

I am not sure if I did or did not , as I do not know if shots were normal in the late 1950s ,

I remember getting a polio shot too, and my best friends dad had polio but drove us to school everyday and then went to work at the courthouse

[Toknarok]

I'm not saying that there are NEVER any complications from giving children vaccinations but the risks are infinitismal. Funnily enought the only case that I have ever seen or heard of is a Thai friend of mine here in the village where I live. Chan was a perfectly normal baby boy until about the age of three when he was given a polio jab. Unfortunately he developed polio and his right leg became severely withered and deformed. He's now aged about 50. Whether the batch given to him was faulty or he had an adverse raction I cannt say.