How can we get public transportation? (& clean up the air!)

[Jason Green]

How is that a city of one million people that has multiple universities can have NO PUBLIC TRANSPORT system????

Bangkok has cleaned up their act, clean-burning NG buses, BTS, etc. And pollution is better as a result.

What about Chiang Mai?

Instead of public transportation, we have the lovely, god-forsaken SONGTEAEWS!!! (red trucks) Spewing thick black toxic diesel smoke on every corner.

Thai corruption at it's finest! I'm told that the "songteaew mafia" is behind this. So one million people get to breathe nasty black diesel smoke every day so a handful o\]

dssdd*ipshits can get payoffs/handouts and keep things the way they are.

I thought Prayuth was cleaning up corruption... couldn't this be another stone to upturn?

How can we go about raising this issue? I know it may seem impossible to de-throne the songteaw grandaddy... but it's worth a shot! Something has to be done!

Thoughts?

[Diplomatico]

Wait six weeks....you'll be begging for this quality of air.

My opinion: Any type of public transport system (be it rail or bus) would require a rather sizeable infrastructure and/or capital equipment investment and that money would come from Bangkok. Given that the ruling military junta is decidedly - shall I say, politely - "pro-establishment" and that said establishment's opposition is based in Northern Thailand... Let's just say the odds of major investment baht coming this way in the near future would appear to be rather bleak.

Simply obtaining additional staff at the Immigration Office - which also has to be approved/funded through Bangkok - has turned out to be more than challenging.

Notice I haven't even touched on the vested interests of the songtaew business community. Right now, songtaews, tuk tuks, and taxis are the public transportation system here.

[uptheos]

"How can we go about raising this issue?"

Interesting question for someone who's been here a week.

Why don't you write a letter to the Governor of Chiang Mai outlining all the things you mention in your post?

Don't forget to give your passport number, address, telephone number (if you have one here)

Good luck.

[Jason Green]

Wait six weeks....you'll be begging for this quality of air.

My opinion: Any type of public transport system (be it rail or bus) would require a rather sizeable infrastructure and/or capital equipment investment and that money would come from Bangkok. Given that the ruling military junta is decidedly - shall I say, politely - "pro-establishment" and that said establishment's opposition is based in Northern Thailand... Let's just say the odds of major investment baht coming this way in the near future would appear to be rather bleak.

Simply obtaining additional staff at the Immigration Office - which also has to be approved/funded through Bangkok - has turned out to be more than challenging.

Notice I haven't even touched on the vested interests of the songtaew business community. Right now, songtaews, tuk tuks, and taxis are the public transportation system here.

Thanks for the reply and info. You raise solid points.

I am well aware that it would take a major effort to accomplish such a thing. Just have been wondering for a long time now what could actually be done about it.

Perhaps partnering with some Thai nationals to try to raise the issue? Not sure, I just know that as a falang they are very unlikely to take anything I say seriously.

[anon467848]

OP: "How is that a city of one million people that has multiple universities can have NO PUBLIC TRANSPORT system????"

Chiang Mai city (mueang) only has a population of 160,000..... Chiang Mai province has nearly 1 million....

[daveAustin]

Op, Bkk had to do it as it's the face of Thailand and for the shopping; no-one really cares about CM, least of all the suits in the capital. It'd take pressure from the Chinese with the promise of millions of tourists, but the airport needs to move before funds are spent on mass rail transit. In any case, it probably doesn't bother the Thais that much (the people that count, we don't) and they tend towards the status quo, which includes grubby songthaew/tuk-tuk clans.

[uptheos]

OP: "How is that a city of one million people that has multiple universities can have NO PUBLIC TRANSPORT system????"

Chiang Mai city (mueang) only has a population of 160,000..... Chiang Mai province has nearly 1 million....

Guess Google wasn't his friend

[Jason Green]

OP: "How is that a city of one million people that has multiple universities can have NO PUBLIC TRANSPORT system????"

Chiang Mai city (mueang) only has a population of 160,000..... Chiang Mai province has nearly 1 million....

Guess Google wasn't his friend

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiang_Mai

"The Chiang Mai Metropolitan Area has a population of nearly one million people, more than half the total of Chiang Mai Province."

[hml367]

Jason,

I think you need to do more research on what exactly Chiang Mai Metropolitan Area is.

You may also find that the red song teaws don't service the whole "Metropolitan Area" regularly, but other color song teaws do as well as buses.

What you might try to do is join the Chiang Mai Expats Club. There web site indicates that they try to help expats "reside safely and legally in Thailand and to adapt and understand the local customs and traditions."... The adapt and understand the local customs and traditions is what you may need to do rather than trying to change Chiang Mai to a non-Thai way of thinking.

[WorkingTourist]

I think cleaning up the air is primary, not public transportation, as that itself would add little value (everyone can already get to where they want with less hassle than relying on bus routes and schedules).

For cleaning up the air, more people ought to use a bicycle or simply just walk. Campaigns would be required to cause the change in mentality, and the city should improve conditions for cyclists and pedestrians to further encourage the change. Perhaps also shine a light on the obesity epidemic that is clearly present in Thailand.

For those who still drive a car or motorbike, laws should be passed to limit emissions accompanied with some sort of subsidization program, so that people can “upgrade” their polluting vehicles to less polluting ones, maybe even electric, without too much of a financial burden.

[Dante99]

I look forward to the reports from the committee/club that you all organize to solve the problem. It is wonderful that you are going to take a proactive role and get the Thais to change Chiang Mai to be what you want it to be. All the best of luck.

[PJcm]

If this happens, public transportation, it will take 20 years, 20 years ago that started the planning with the help of the Japanese Gov't What the city should do is have an underground Cable car system similar to San Francisco, very easy to maintain, maintenance for the cable and little for the cable cars as they only need brakes.. It would be charming and fit in well with the major town areas. But alas there is little money to be made by the politicians so you know that this will never happen. Some day Chiang Mai will have an ugly overhead subway destroying any charm left in Chiang Mai. I hope my ashes will be strewn to the wind by then

[northernjohn]

Wait six weeks....you'll be begging for this quality of air.

My opinion: Any type of public transport system (be it rail or bus) would require a rather sizeable infrastructure and/or capital equipment investment and that money would come from Bangkok. Given that the ruling military junta is decidedly - shall I say, politely - "pro-establishment" and that said establishment's opposition is based in Northern Thailand... Let's just say the odds of major investment baht coming this way in the near future would appear to be rather bleak.

Simply obtaining additional staff at the Immigration Office - which also has to be approved/funded through Bangkok - has turned out to be more than challenging.

Notice I haven't even touched on the vested interests of the songtaew business community. Right now, songtaews, tuk tuks, and taxis are the public transportation system here.

If you are just trying to knock the government be a little bit honest and mention the previous government treated us the same and this is the center of their power. I think you really have no idea.

You know about as much as the OP every corner has a red songthaew spewing thick toxic smoke. Give us a break. there aren't that many Songthaew's in Chiang Mai and most of them are OK. Why is it every time some one gets overcharged by a Songthaew driver they have to come on Thai Visa with nonsense. Has any one ever noticed they would lead every body to believe that private cars and trucks don't contribute to the problem. Wait until fire season.

[northernjohn]

OP: "How is that a city of one million people that has multiple universities can have NO PUBLIC TRANSPORT system????"

Chiang Mai city (mueang) only has a population of 160,000..... Chiang Mai province has nearly 1 million....

Please try to follow the OPs lead and keep reality out of the conversation.

[northernjohn]

I think cleaning up the air is primary, not public transportation, as that itself would add little value (everyone can already get to where they want with less hassle than relying on bus routes and schedules).

For cleaning up the air, more people ought to use a bicycle or simply just walk. Campaigns would be required to cause the change in mentality, and the city should improve conditions for cyclists and pedestrians to further encourage the change. Perhaps also shine a light on the obesity epidemic that is clearly present in Thailand.

For those who still drive a car or motorbike, laws should be passed to limit emissions accompanied with some sort of subsidization program, so that people can “upgrade” their polluting vehicles to less polluting ones, maybe even electric, without too much of a financial burden.

I think the walking would be better served if the sidewalks were made a little more passable. Keep the motor bikes of them and try to level them all up with out holes. I walk a fair bit and often find it better to walk on the street. Not the best idea but often the best and some times only choice.

[Diplomatico]

Wait six weeks....you'll be begging for this quality of air.

My opinion: Any type of public transport system (be it rail or bus) would require a rather sizeable infrastructure and/or capital equipment investment and that money would come from Bangkok. Given that the ruling military junta is decidedly - shall I say, politely - "pro-establishment" and that said establishment's opposition is based in Northern Thailand... Let's just say the odds of major investment baht coming this way in the near future would appear to be rather bleak.

Simply obtaining additional staff at the Immigration Office - which also has to be approved/funded through Bangkok - has turned out to be more than challenging.

Notice I haven't even touched on the vested interests of the songtaew business community. Right now, songtaews, tuk tuks, and taxis are the public transportation system here.

If you are just trying to knock the government be a little bit honest and mention the previous government treated us the same and this is the center of their power. I think you really have no idea.

Which means that the current government in Bangkok - where the money for projects like this originates - would be even less likely to provide the needed funding for infrastructure improvements in Chiang Mai. Yes, that was my point, but I don't mind re-stating it so that you can understand it.

I'm surprised you're awake at this time of the day....oops, look, there's some drool on your shirt.

[CMNightRider]

Chiang Mai does need a public transportation system but it won't happen in my lifetime. Apparently, Chiang Mai doesn't employ city planners or if they do, they are incompetent. Songthaews and tuk tuks simply add to the traffic congestion. Like one poster stated, they don't even have sidewalks here not to mention a total lack of traffic enforcement.

As far as clean air, that won't happen either. Thailand, along with other other Asian countries will continue to burn their rice fields until the end of time. In spite of this, Chiang Mai is still a pleasant city to retire to.

[midas]

If this happens, public transportation, it will take 20 years, 20 years ago that started the planning with the help of the Japanese Gov't What the city should do is have an underground Cable car system similar to San Francisco, very easy to maintain, maintenance for the cable and little for the cable cars as they only need brakes.. It would be charming and fit in well with the major town areas. But alas there is little money to be made by the politicians so you know that this will never happen. Some day Chiang Mai will have an ugly overhead subway destroying any charm left in Chiang Mai. I hope my ashes will be strewn to the wind by then

Hang on a minute! Where will they have room for the proposed new bicycle lanes?

[midas]

Chiang Mai does need a public transportation system but it won't happen in my lifetime. Apparently, Chiang Mai doesn't employ city planners or if they do, they are incompetent. Songthaews and tuk tuks simply add to the traffic congestion. Like one poster stated, they don't even have sidewalks here not to mention a total lack of traffic enforcement.

As far as clean air, that won't happen either. Thailand, along with other other Asian countries will continue to burn their rice fields until the end of time. In spite of this, Chiang Mai is still a pleasant city to retire to.

Is the word planning even in their vocabulary?

[CMBob]

A few years back, Chiang Mai did in fact acquire a few natural gas busses for a fixed-route public transportation system. If my memory is correct, 2 or 4 busses began the service and the song teaw drivers threw a hissy fit, protested, and in some cases actually physically blocked the use of the new busses. The new service lasted about 2 weeks and was abandoned, Chiang Mai cancelled the remaining order for another dozen or so busses, and sold the ones already delivered at a substantial loss. As has been suggested, attempting to dislodge or improve the existing system here isn't going to be easy.

[kanook]

I agree with you and loathe having to breathe black toxic smoke spewing from the hundreds of songthaews zipping around town. Even more surprising is the sheer number of expat apologists (how can anyone defend toxic pollution). The solution is quite simple, force songthaews to burn clean fuel or better yet, replace them with metered taxis. As for public transit, why not start with a clean fuel public bus system. Did you know that Chiang Mai had a public bus system that was decommissioned a few years ago? Before residing here I lived in BK as well as Chiang Rai for 1 1/2 years. Although much smaller, Chiang Rai has several taxi companies that use the meter and are prefered by the locals, with many former songthaew and tuk tuk drivers now driving taxis in Chiang Rai.

[masuk]

I think cleaning up the air is primary, not public transportation, as that itself would add little value (everyone can already get to where they want with less hassle than relying on bus routes and schedules).

For cleaning up the air, more people ought to use a bicycle or simply just walk. Campaigns would be required to cause the change in mentality, and the city should improve conditions for cyclists and pedestrians to further encourage the change. Perhaps also shine a light on the obesity epidemic that is clearly present in Thailand.

For those who still drive a car or motorbike, laws should be passed to limit emissions accompanied with some sort of subsidization program, so that people can “upgrade” their polluting vehicles to less polluting ones, maybe even electric, without too much of a financial burden.

I think the walking would be better served if the sidewalks were made a little more passable. Keep the motor bikes of them and try to level them all up with out holes. I walk a fair bit and often find it better to walk on the street. Not the best idea but often the best and some times only choice.

Yes indeed, the sidewalks/pavements/footpaths are in dire need of repairing, upgrading and made much more user friendly.

This morning I had a lump in my throat, as I watched a guy with a white cane, tapping his way along Huay Keow Road, trying to find a way around the parked motorbikes across the footpaths, the broken guttering, the ever-growing potholes.

The build up of dirt on the side of the road continues to mount up. I'm not sure the city even owns a mechanised street sweeper, and leaves it to a handful of folk with straw brooms.

The restaurants and shops seem to have the same bikes blocking the way every day, so it appears the staff have no where provided to park their machines.

It's starting to look like a neglected. smoky, polluted city.

[true blue]

A few years back, Chiang Mai did in fact acquire a few natural gas busses for a fixed-route public transportation system. If my memory is correct, 2 or 4 busses began the service and the song teaw drivers threw a hissy fit, protested, and in some cases actually physically blocked the use of the new busses. The new service lasted about 2 weeks and was abandoned, Chiang Mai cancelled the remaining order for another dozen or so busses, and sold the ones already delivered at a substantial loss. As has been suggested, attempting to dislodge or improve the existing system here isn't going to be easy.

rember them about 9 years ago brand new comfortable buses,nice route,wasnt it free as well???

[Ozziepat]

Want to guess how many young kids are injured or killed on motorbikes because there's no safe, affordable, reliable way they can get to school, or the playing field, or the store? Do you know where Thai educational system (all levels) ranks in Asia, the world? Do you know about the lung cancer rate in Chiang Mai? There are seriously valid reasons to change many things in Chiang Mai, and Thailand in general, but -

Universal rule #417: "Everything is the way it is because people with the necessary power and influence to cause meaningful change don't want meaningful change."

That raises a few interesting questions, does it not?

[FolkGuitar]

Chiang Mai does have a public transportation system. I seem to get stuck behind its ancient blue buses often around town. I don't know how often

they run, or what their routes are, but they seem to know when I'm going to be driving, and manage to be in front of me several times a week.

Chiang Mai tried to have a modern bus system about 10 years ago, with big fancy buses, bus routes to all corners inside the ring road, running of a fixed schedule.

Unfortunately, nobody wanted to ride these buses as they weren't as convenient as the songtaews so the system was canceled. The buses only traveled on

the larger streets, and didn't carry people down the smaller roads or sois. They didn't run every 20-30 seconds so people didn't want to wait around for them.

We had it. We didn't use it. We lost it. Can we stop bitching about it?

[siam2007]

The same topic has probably been started several times in the past 20 years ago with the same success (none).

people in Chiang mai will never get used to fixed lines and schedules.

they are too lazy to wait more than 30 second for a red vehicle to show up at any given Soi in town - me too when I visit CM.

it will never change....

[elektrified]

A few years back, Chiang Mai did in fact acquire a few natural gas busses for a fixed-route public transportation system. If my memory is correct, 2 or 4 busses began the service and the song teaw drivers threw a hissy fit, protested, and in some cases actually physically blocked the use of the new busses. The new service lasted about 2 weeks and was abandoned, Chiang Mai cancelled the remaining order for another dozen or so busses, and sold the ones already delivered at a substantial loss. As has been suggested, attempting to dislodge or improve the existing system here isn't going to be easy.

Nope, the buses are still in service. Riding them and knowing their route/schedule is a closely held secret.

[Jason Green]

I'm not even going to address the pot shots from the trolls and bitter retirees...

I was merely trying to start a constructive conversation (something can be difficult on this forum) as to what could actually be done about improving this situation. As well as discussing what has been done, what could be done, etc. Dismissing everything with bitterness really accomplishes nothing.

There was a day when Bangkok didn't have BTS and didn't have clean burning buses. But things changed. Not by b*tching about it. But by people actually doing stuff. People probably dismissed such "lofty ideas" as hogwash back then as well.

The facts about there being a bus system years ago before it was scrapped are interesting. Sad! But interesting... Funny how Thailand's "mighty capital of the North" can be defeated by a few stubborn red cab blockades. But I suppose that's Thailand for you...

As to the Thais not caring about being able to breathe clean air: b*llshit! I see them covering their mouths and faces all the time to avoid getting a diesel smoke shower. Everyone wants to breathe clean air.

[Tokay]

Considering the ground is flat here, all tuk tuks should go solar. They can convert them in Bangkok so it can be done here. That would be a start.

A ski lift / cable car system to take people up Doi Suthep would be another great project and help get those freakin' red baht buses off the mountain where they POUR black smoke out the entire trip to the top, choking everyone behind them, including their passengers.

Chiang Mai could really be star, clean up the air, and become a "green city." Lots of solar, ditch the belching trucks, get the burning under control, recycle, and so on. That is a pipe dream, I know, but they are squandering a great opportunity to do something amazing.

One can dream.....

But I know, farang go home if you don't like it. I do like it. I love it. I just see so much wasted potential to have a truly amazing, and clean city.

[Rusty63]

As a person with mild asthma condition controlled. Was hospitalised twice in three weeks with breathing problems . Never happened in my life before .

Hopefully as song taws get replaced with later spec diesels will help significantly . I read somewhere later model tuk tuk are four strokes assume lots of two strokes still abound . Could be good publicity for city if local university / colleges offered too pollution test / tune song taws / tuk tuks . Perhaps offering this tune up as cost price for parts . Minimal labour charge /

Alternatively I believe these vehicles get a fuel rebate . If they don't pass emissions test . Simple No rebate for fuel .

Just my two cents worth . I want to come back without dying there .