Patong is dead.

[xylophone]

Hadn't been out for a while so decided to visit a couple of friends in Bangla (they are bar owners) last night and also to have a look around.

I checked out the aforementioned site which I had said was going to be closed on April 30, and sure enough it was and all of the shops in that little complex were empty and looked ready for demolition. I say "little complex" but having a look around the place last night it is far bigger than one imagines at first sight and of course it can be multistorey, so could be a good site for both shopping complex and a hotel, although the English-speaking Thai lady who works at the Higher restaurant also assured me that it was going to be taken over by Central for shopping??

Bangla was fairly busy and just about typical for this time of the year although many walkers and viewers rather than active participants in the bars although the "usual suspects" (bars that is) were full. Surprised to see both Heroes bar and Moon bar closed (shutters down) and apparently they have been like that for about a week.

It was no surprise that Tao was just about empty when I passed on the way home at 1:30 a.m. as that always seems to be the case and I just wonder how long it will "survive" in its present format.

Talking about survival, a friend in the real estate business who concentrates on small businesses said that he is very busy and the turnover of guesthouses and small hotels is brisk, although restaurants take a lot longer to sell. One of the problems facing the guesthouses and small hotels is the fact that the landlords are increasing the rents and the room rate has dropped due to competition, thereby making it extremely hard, if not impossible, to make a profit.

Not surprising really when you can get a decent room in a recently refurbished small hotel in Nanai Road for 500 baht a night. Having said that it appears that there is no shortage of people willing to get into these businesses despite the fact they've never made any money!

On that note, a small hotel in Nanai Road is now up for rent and this establishment has been "turned over" about three times over the past five or six years and the small shop next to it is also shuttered, along with a shop opposite. The Italian restaurant at the south end of Nanai has opened up again and has continued in its previous vein, catering to no customers, that's probably why it is still up for rent/sale.

And the procession of "ever hopeful successful business owners" continues, with a beauty salon (as if we need another one) opening up in the twice closed premises of a pharmacy at the bottom of Soi Nanai 6, which is next to a recently opened women's clothing shop (which replaced and IT shop which did next to no business) which has done very little business and currently has a seven-day sale to try and drum some up.

If indeed the small, narrow bars being built at the front of the new Makro building are going to house the new "Dons BBQ" then the patrons better be very careful when they lift their drinking arm because it's more than likely going to be ripped off by a passing car/truck because there are seats literally centimetres from the road, and of course one can always enjoy a beer along with road dust and diesel fumes!

I suppose I'm coming to the conclusion that Patong is an enigma in as much as despite everything conspiring against it with regards to greedy landlords, corruption, and you name it, there is always a procession of hopefuls waiting to take over some failed business or another in order to make their fortune, perhaps assisted by the urgings of their Thai girlfriend, and the merry-go-round seems to be going on, until such time the economics of such a venture really do not make any sense whatsoever and of course that the potential purchasers have the sense to see it, using the big head with which to think!

[LivinginKata]

<snip>

If indeed the small, narrow bars being built at the front of the new Makro building are going to house the new "Dons BBQ" then the patrons better be very careful when they lift their drinking arm because it's more than likely going to be ripped off by a passing car/truck because there are seats literally centimetres from the road, and of course one can always enjoy a beer along with road dust and diesel fumes!

Yes, I have been watching this bar build for weeks now. Seems to be taking forever for such a 'light' build. It's just nuts how close the high chairs are to a main busy road. Makes no sense to me.

[KarenBravo]

Yes, that good old Phuket tradition............working all hours of the day, for your land-lord.

[DrDave]

Hadn't been out for a while so decided to visit a couple of friends in Bangla (they are bar owners) last night and also to have a look around.

I checked out the aforementioned site which I had said was going to be closed on April 30, and sure enough it was and all of the shops in that little complex were empty and looked ready for demolition. I say "little complex" but having a look around the place last night it is far bigger than one imagines at first sight and of course it can be multistorey, so could be a good site for both shopping complex and a hotel, although the English-speaking Thai lady who works at the Higher restaurant also assured me that it was going to be taken over by Central for shopping??

Bangla was fairly busy and just about typical for this time of the year although many walkers and viewers rather than active participants in the bars although the "usual suspects" (bars that is) were full. Surprised to see both Heroes bar and Moon bar closed (shutters down) and apparently they have been like that for about a week.

It was no surprise that Tao was just about empty when I passed on the way home at 1:30 a.m. as that always seems to be the case and I just wonder how long it will "survive" in its present format.

Talking about survival, a friend in the real estate business who concentrates on small businesses said that he is very busy and the turnover of guesthouses and small hotels is brisk, although restaurants take a lot longer to sell. One of the problems facing the guesthouses and small hotels is the fact that the landlords are increasing the rents and the room rate has dropped due to competition, thereby making it extremely hard, if not impossible, to make a profit.

Not surprising really when you can get a decent room in a recently refurbished small hotel in Nanai Road for 500 baht a night. Having said that it appears that there is no shortage of people willing to get into these businesses despite the fact they've never made any money!

On that note, a small hotel in Nanai Road is now up for rent and this establishment has been "turned over" about three times over the past five or six years and the small shop next to it is also shuttered, along with a shop opposite. The Italian restaurant at the south end of Nanai has opened up again and has continued in its previous vein, catering to no customers, that's probably why it is still up for rent/sale.

And the procession of "ever hopeful successful business owners" continues, with a beauty salon (as if we need another one) opening up in the twice closed premises of a pharmacy at the bottom of Soi Nanai 6, which is next to a recently opened women's clothing shop (which replaced and IT shop which did next to no business) which has done very little business and currently has a seven-day sale to try and drum some up.

If indeed the small, narrow bars being built at the front of the new Makro building are going to house the new "Dons BBQ" then the patrons better be very careful when they lift their drinking arm because it's more than likely going to be ripped off by a passing car/truck because there are seats literally centimetres from the road, and of course one can always enjoy a beer along with road dust and diesel fumes!

I suppose I'm coming to the conclusion that Patong is an enigma in as much as despite everything conspiring against it with regards to greedy landlords, corruption, and you name it, there is always a procession of hopefuls waiting to take over some failed business or another in order to make their fortune, perhaps assisted by the urgings of their Thai girlfriend, and the merry-go-round seems to be going on, until such time the economics of such a venture really do not make any sense whatsoever and of course that the potential purchasers have the sense to see it, using the big head with which to think!

I have to wonder if maybe that "not so small" retail complex on Bangla rumored to be developed by Central would be combined with the "Promenade" behind it. I've only been in the Promenade a few times, but each time its been a ghost town. What looks to have been a very expensive build seems to generate no revenue. The food court upstairs, while new and clean, IMHO seems lacking in terms of food and ambiance. It might make sense for a big developer to come in and join that building together with the now-closed complex on Bangla, making use of the land where the outdoor food court now resides, as well as the existing underground parking garage. Just a thought.

I'm as dumbfounded as you, Xylophone, concerning the turnover of guesthouses. It's obvious to anyone who lives here that they just can't possibly make any money, yet people continually buy them. I saw the other day that the relatively new Paradise guesthouse on Sai Kor's nightly room rates are back down to 450 baht. I'm pretty sure I saw mention of dorm rooms for 250 baht on their moving LED sign too.

At the southern end of Nanai, between Soi 9 and the Thai BBQ place, the establishment at the end of the diagonal row of shophouses has shut down. At first, this was a cafe (and maybe hostel?) with the tagline of "a cool place for cool people". Apparently, it wasn't cool enough, as it closed and a small 399 baht Seafood BBQ buffet opened in its place. It seems like that lasted about 6 weeks or so, and now that space is empty with a for rent sign in place.

At the foot of Soi 9, what appears to be a newly built guesthouse was completed months ago, but never opened. A taxi/tuktuk/tour office opened in the small building next door built at about the same time, in the same style, but nothing in the larger building. Not even a for rent or for sale sign there. And as for the new Tiger Group restaurant - still no activity. A lot of money spent on the build-out to be ready just in time for low season. Maybe it was built for some other purpose?

The area in front of Makro is most definitely Don's. He's in the process of moving some of his things over there now. The plan was to be open in the new location at the end of April, but the date seems to have slipped by a week or so. As far as I know, this location will be somewhat temporary for the restaurant, to be used while Don remodels the main building. Fortunately, there's a tiny buffer between the outside tables and Nanai Road in the form of motorbike parking spaces that were established when the new Makro building was built. It also appears that there will be tables inside the building, which seems to have a width of about 3 meters. I'm guessing this location will be fine for low season, but hopefully the remodel of the original building will be completed before next high season.

I'm likening the foreign turnover of bars, restaurants and guesthouses to a game of musical chairs. At some point, the music is going to stop and someone will be left standing, holding a big bag of steaming excrement.

[xylophone]

Hadn't been out for a while so decided to visit a couple of friends in Bangla (they are bar owners) last night and also to have a look around.

I checked out the aforementioned site which I had said was going to be closed on April 30, and sure enough it was and all of the shops in that little complex were empty and looked ready for demolition. I say "little complex" but having a look around the place last night it is far bigger than one imagines at first sight and of course it can be multistorey, so could be a good site for both shopping complex and a hotel, although the English-speaking Thai lady who works at the Higher restaurant also assured me that it was going to be taken over by Central for shopping??

Bangla was fairly busy and just about typical for this time of the year although many walkers and viewers rather than active participants in the bars although the "usual suspects" (bars that is) were full. Surprised to see both Heroes bar and Moon bar closed (shutters down) and apparently they have been like that for about a week.

It was no surprise that Tao was just about empty when I passed on the way home at 1:30 a.m. as that always seems to be the case and I just wonder how long it will "survive" in its present format.

Talking about survival, a friend in the real estate business who concentrates on small businesses said that he is very busy and the turnover of guesthouses and small hotels is brisk, although restaurants take a lot longer to sell. One of the problems facing the guesthouses and small hotels is the fact that the landlords are increasing the rents and the room rate has dropped due to competition, thereby making it extremely hard, if not impossible, to make a profit.

Not surprising really when you can get a decent room in a recently refurbished small hotel in Nanai Road for 500 baht a night. Having said that it appears that there is no shortage of people willing to get into these businesses despite the fact they've never made any money!

On that note, a small hotel in Nanai Road is now up for rent and this establishment has been "turned over" about three times over the past five or six years and the small shop next to it is also shuttered, along with a shop opposite. The Italian restaurant at the south end of Nanai has opened up again and has continued in its previous vein, catering to no customers, that's probably why it is still up for rent/sale.

And the procession of "ever hopeful successful business owners" continues, with a beauty salon (as if we need another one) opening up in the twice closed premises of a pharmacy at the bottom of Soi Nanai 6, which is next to a recently opened women's clothing shop (which replaced and IT shop which did next to no business) which has done very little business and currently has a seven-day sale to try and drum some up.

If indeed the small, narrow bars being built at the front of the new Makro building are going to house the new "Dons BBQ" then the patrons better be very careful when they lift their drinking arm because it's more than likely going to be ripped off by a passing car/truck because there are seats literally centimetres from the road, and of course one can always enjoy a beer along with road dust and diesel fumes!

I suppose I'm coming to the conclusion that Patong is an enigma in as much as despite everything conspiring against it with regards to greedy landlords, corruption, and you name it, there is always a procession of hopefuls waiting to take over some failed business or another in order to make their fortune, perhaps assisted by the urgings of their Thai girlfriend, and the merry-go-round seems to be going on, until such time the economics of such a venture really do not make any sense whatsoever and of course that the potential purchasers have the sense to see it, using the big head with which to think!

I have to wonder if maybe that "not so small" retail complex on Bangla rumored to be developed by Central would be combined with the "Promenade" behind it. I've only been in the Promenade a few times, but each time its been a ghost town. What looks to have been a very expensive build seems to generate no revenue. The food court upstairs, while new and clean, IMHO seems lacking in terms of food and ambiance. It might make sense for a big developer to come in and join that building together with the now-closed complex on Bangla, making use of the land where the outdoor food court now resides, as well as the existing underground parking garage. Just a thought.

I'm as dumbfounded as you, Xylophone, concerning the turnover of guesthouses. It's obvious to anyone who lives here that they just can't possibly make any money, yet people continually buy them. I saw the other day that the relatively new Paradise guesthouse on Sai Kor's nightly room rates are back down to 450 baht. I'm pretty sure I saw mention of dorm rooms for 250 baht on their moving LED sign too.

At the southern end of Nanai, between Soi 9 and the Thai BBQ place, the establishment at the end of the diagonal row of shophouses has shut down. At first, this was a cafe (and maybe hostel?) with the tagline of "a cool place for cool people". Apparently, it wasn't cool enough, as it closed and a small 399 baht Seafood BBQ buffet opened in its place. It seems like that lasted about 6 weeks or so, and now that space is empty with a for rent sign in place.

At the foot of Soi 9, what appears to be a newly built guesthouse was completed months ago, but never opened. A taxi/tuktuk/tour office opened in the small building next door built at about the same time, in the same style, but nothing in the larger building. Not even a for rent or for sale sign there. And as for the new Tiger Group restaurant - still no activity. A lot of money spent on the build-out to be ready just in time for low season. Maybe it was built for some other purpose?

The area in front of Makro is most definitely Don's. He's in the process of moving some of his things over there now. The plan was to be open in the new location at the end of April, but the date seems to have slipped by a week or so. As far as I know, this location will be somewhat temporary for the restaurant, to be used while Don remodels the main building. Fortunately, there's a tiny buffer between the outside tables and Nanai Road in the form of motorbike parking spaces that were established when the new Makro building was built. It also appears that there will be tables inside the building, which seems to have a width of about 3 meters. I'm guessing this location will be fine for low season, but hopefully the remodel of the original building will be completed before next high season.

I'm likening the foreign turnover of bars, restaurants and guesthouses to a game of musical chairs. At some point, the music is going to stop and someone will be left standing, holding a big bag of steaming excrement.

That's the very area I've been talking about DrDave, taking in the open air dining area alongside of Seduction and what was the pizza restaurant, going back to where the recently built two or three storey building which housed the food court, is, and including the shops and open-air area, as well as the adjoining restaurants, not to mention toilets and other amenities. Combine that with the underground car park and it is a fair sized area waiting to be developed by the sounds of things.

[SooKee]

With the drivers here, the amount of drunks on the roads and the numbers of people who it seems have never ridden bikes before tearing up and down the streets, I'd be really paranoid about sitting at ANY bar where the seats front on to the main road unless there's other things errant motorists have to hit before me. Same as I'd never sit at any such place at the corner if there's a side road next to it, having had the experience of a crap local driver turn left out of a side road, got too close to and hitting a bike there which was in turn pushed into our stools, trapping one against another one, luckily nobody had a hand or leg between them. Needless to say, the dumb bitch driving got an earful, not least from the bike owner.

Of course the danger aspect is in some ways the least of the problems you'd be likely to encounter purely on a law of averages front. Much more problematic for me is drinking, and especially eating, anywhere along Nanai with the noise, dirt and fumes from the traffic. Don's was bad enough in its old location. But, sat as far enough back from the road and it was at least bearable. Even then though it leads to a very down-market experience.

Interesting to hear about Heroes. Wonder what's going on there. The owner is a very good friend of mine. Will try and hook up and get the low-down when I'm back visiting Phuket from the currently very hot Chiang Mai tomorrow. Could it be closure related to the impending (but for how many years now?) development for the new Central or maybe a business adjustment sell off. Be surprised though as it was always quite full.

Tao really really missed the mark. I guess his other businesses can afford to carry the place though. Can't see him holding on to it for long though, at least not in its current format. Trouble is what to do with it? Another dedicated live band bar, another go-go, another coyote bar? Nothing much else to the recipe in Bangla so I suppose it'd have to be. What Patong severely lacks for me is anywhere that's a bit more sophisticated and upmarket for a drink and a pleasant night out. That said, I guess with what a lot of folks go to Patong for, Bangla would be the wrong place for it, and if it ain't in Bangla, it likely ain't gonna do well in Patong where 'same old, same old' is about your only recipe for a night out, wash, rinse, repeat.

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Edited May 5, 2016 by SooKee

[SooKee]

Seems Heroes was open for business last night.

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[xylophone]

Seems Heroes was open for business last night.

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Yes it was on Saturday night when I went out, although Moon bar was still shuttered! And as if to prove me wrong, Tao was buzzing when I went past at about 10 p.m., perhaps because of the special offer on Chang beer or that and a combination of the fact that the band were playing more "hip-hop" style lighter music which the crowd were enjoying – – although had emptied by about two thirds when I went past later at about 2 a.m. when both Monsoon and New York were still buzzing.

Took a walk up Soi Sea Dragon (twice at about two hour intervals) and was really surprised how quiet it was, this especially as I remember it when a couple of friends had bars in there and the place was "the place" (well almost anyway) to be. Quite different now and it was surprising that there were probably no more than a couple of dozen farangs in there at about 1:30 a.m. which had to be seen to be believed because there were so many bars with girls at the tables waiting for punters.

I noticed that one bar and its associated go-go bar opposite are up for sale and it wouldn't surprise me to see quite a few more on the market, because even in the past relatively low seasons, patronage was far better than this.

Noticed quite a few more young hoons/bogans around the place and three skinny ones walking down Bangla with no shirts on were approached by a Thai guy (not aggressively) who suggested that they might want to put some shirts on, and of course they ignored him and walked past, however I have seen the BIB approach shirtless farangs before and tell them to put shirts on, so I wonder how this trio got on as there were some plods walking up and down the street from time to time.

Soi Freedom seems to have a life all of its own because so many times now it is the bars in the first third of the Soi which are relatively busy, followed by a row of bars on either side with just about nobody in them, and then the last few of bars or so, nearer to the band, are busy and then seem to get late crowds piling in not long before closing time.

Something I have noticed many times now on the way home in the early hours of the morning, is the appalling mess left in Soi Banzaan after the night market and food stalls have gone. It really is beyond belief to see how anyone could feel comfortable leaving this much rubbish just laying around the pavement and the road, but sure enough it is there every time.

[SooKee]

Hmm. Well. As to Banzaan. I think it's easy to see from the beaches how much regard tourists and / or locals (and in this case I get the feeling the balance swings more towards the locals) have for their surrounding environment regardless of its proximity to where they live. Outside their own walls, their own personal trash can. On the basis of some of the crap that people try to rent out I think that applies to inside too.

The Soi Seadragon bars rarely seem to have anything but lowlife in them when I've walked past in the last 12 months, but I guess we're now well intob low rent season so it's probably worse.

Guess I must just be off Bangla big style because the pondlife meter has been well in the red every time I've ventured on it in the last 12 months. And which of you lucky girls will be fortunate enough to score this bag of s**t tonight?

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[DrDave]

<snip>

Something I have noticed many times now on the way home in the early hours of the morning, is the appalling mess left in Soi Banzaan after the night market and food stalls have gone. It really is beyond belief to see how anyone could feel comfortable leaving this much rubbish just laying around the pavement and the road, but sure enough it is there every time.

Yes, I've seen that rubbish at Banzaan too. Generally, they have a crew to clean it up before 6am, and I've occasionally seen a water truck hose down the entire area soon after. I suspect that the majority of the trash is left by the vendors, although I've seen an increasing number of Chinese tourists congregating and eating their purchases right in the middle of the crowded pathways, then just dropping their garbage where they stood before moving on.

One time MrsDave asked a vendor at the Banzaan night market out of curiosity how much they pay for rent. I don't know how accurate this is, but she was told that a vendor has to pay 300,000 baht in non-refundable, non-transferable "key money", plus about 9,000 baht per month rent for one of those little 2m spaces. I don't know how you could ever sell enough noodles, chicken, somtum, etc at 50-60 baht to recover the key money in any reasonable amount of time. If the business fails, you're out the 300,000 baht, as it can't be transferred to the next vendor willing to take a chance.

If this is true, then it's just another example of how greedy landlords are choking the life out of small businesses in Patong.

[Sharp]

A lady I know has a stall there and told me it was 4500 per month with a 5000 baht deposit. They also pay a 'fee' to you know who!!.... So I'm told..

[phuketlive]

The Troy hotel on Nanai 8 is closing down, 60 rooms, not a small one.

No profit, rent was like 300 000 bahs + staff, electricity, etc...

3 year contract has to be renewed and the thai owner wants key money again, etc...

Good luck to find someone who will take it now for 300 000 + key money...

[xylophone]

Hmm. Well. As to Banzaan. I think it's easy to see from the beaches how much regard tourists and / or locals (and in this case I get the feeling the balance swings more towards the locals) have for their surrounding environment regardless of its proximity to where they live. Outside their own walls, their own personal trash can. On the basis of some of the crap that people try to rent out I think that applies to inside too.

The Soi Seadragon bars rarely seem to have anything but lowlife in them when I've walked past in the last 12 months, but I guess we're now well intob low rent season so it's probably worse.

Guess I must just be off Bangla big style because the pondlife meter has been well in the red every time I've ventured on it in the last 12 months. And which of you lucky girls will be fortunate enough to score this bag of s**t tonight?

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"The Soi Seadragon bars rarely seem to have anything but lowlife in them when I've walked past in the last 12 months".

Not me, I wasn't there your honour!

I have to admit that your observation seems pretty much on the mark, but then again I don't think that's much different to a few of the other Sois around the place with dare I say it, Soi Freedom being the exception, because I have seen a few families and older folk enjoying the place, although the occasional low life or three are found in it.

And also I now find Smiley Bar to be the best of the bunch because there seems to be a good mix of young and older folk and many nationalities and in one evening I have encountered, Thais, Chinese, Malaysian, Australians, South Africans and Russians in the bar enjoying the atmosphere and the music.

[xylophone]

The Troy hotel on Nanai 8 is closing down, 60 rooms, not a small one.

No profit, rent was like 300 000 bahs + staff, electricity, etc...

3 year contract has to be renewed and the thai owner wants key money again, etc...

Good luck to find someone who will take it now for 300 000 + key money...

According to a friend in the business, pretty much every hotel/guesthouse on Nanai Road is for sale and as I said in another post, all the time the owners want more for the business, whilst the average room rate is dropping, there is no sense in even contemplating something like this.........but, still they come!

[phuketlive]

yes, they probably all for sale.

Troy is getting empty inside until the end of the month when the owner will take it back to find a new farang to rent it yes !

[FritsSikkink]

What's killing patong (and phuket) is the stranglehold the taxi and Tuk Tuk operators have on the place. Nobody wants to spend their entire holiday locked in a radius of a comfortable walking distance. They get ripped of getting to and from the airport and the minute they want to get a little adventurous and go see something else outside walking distance they get ripped off again by the transportation cartel. Sure the beers and food within walking distance may be cheap but after a few days that becomes old and people want to enhance their travel experience. When they try they are ripped off. It doesn't make for a good holiday experience and foster repeat tourism.

if your adventurous, travel the country

[KarenBravo]

According to a friend in the business, pretty much every hotel/guesthouse on Nanai Road is for sale

This might not just be due to a lack of business.

Don't forget that the Thai Hotel Association set the authorities on to all the "illegal" hotels.

The added expense of becoming "legal" maybe just "the straw that broke the camel's back".

[madmitch]

According to a friend in the business, pretty much every hotel/guesthouse on Nanai Road is for sale

This might not just be due to a lack of business.

Don't forget that the Thai Hotel Association set the authorities on to all the "illegal" hotels.

The added expense of becoming "legal" maybe just "the straw that broke the camel's back".

Vary doubtful. A licence from the Tessabaan costs all of 1000 baht. On top of that there should be a 1% room tax if you are a hotel with more than a certain number of rooms. No, just an oversupply of rooms in Patong and not many will want to stay in an old building on Nanai when there are so many brand new places at the same price on the new road, whatever it's called.

[Peterocket]

According to a friend in the business, pretty much every hotel/guesthouse on Nanai Road is for sale

This might not just be due to a lack of business.

Don't forget that the Thai Hotel Association set the authorities on to all the "illegal" hotels.

The added expense of becoming "legal" maybe just "the straw that broke the camel's back".

Vary doubtful. A licence from the Tessabaan costs all of 1000 baht. On top of that there should be a 1% room tax if you are a hotel with more than a certain number of rooms. No, just an oversupply of rooms in Patong and not many will want to stay in an old building on Nanai when there are so many brand new places at the same price on the new road, whatever it's called.

If renting rooms then the individual tax payer is required to report and remit his income tax using the personal income tax return form PND 91 by the end of March after the year in which the income was paid. Failure to report income can result in an assessment by the Revenue Department. The penalty is equal to the amount of additional tax payable. Further a surcharge of 1.5% per month on the tax payable is applicable.

Finally, it should also be noted that an "additional" category of tax is also payable each time the rent is paid. It is the duty of the payer of the rent who is renting the room to deduct a "withholding tax" from the rental payment and submit it to the local Revenue Department. If the owner of the room is not a tax resident of Thailand the withholding tax rate is 15%. . If the owner is a tax resident of Thailand and the payer is a juristic person, the withholding tax rate is 5%.

[Lashay]

According to a friend in the business, pretty much every hotel/guesthouse on Nanai Road is for sale

This might not just be due to a lack of business.

Don't forget that the Thai Hotel Association set the authorities on to all the "illegal" hotels.

The added expense of becoming "legal" maybe just "the straw that broke the camel's back".

While it does not help, actual above board costs for things like licences are generally pretty small in Thailand.

The bigger problem for such hotels is a price war (due to over supply for anything below 5 star, though with amount of 5 stars being built now they will soon have same problem) in the middle of down market.

Why pay 500-700 for 0-2 star with no or tiny pool when you can get 3+ to 4 star for a few hundred baht more per night? Even most of the westerners i see at airport these days seem to be "package tourists"getting bused to their resort and packages generally don't include sub 40 room guest house type property's masquerading as hotels.

That most of these hotels are leased instead of freehold owned (thus not only have rent per month but on a ticking clock until next "key money" payment is due) and it makes it very hard for them to weather this downturn to see it though to the other side.

Google "business for sale patong" some day and you will find page after page of these places (and coincidentally you will find same for most other tourist areas like Pattaya, Samui so forth)...and then start doing the most basic maths of No. rooms times average rate and you will quickly discover most of these places would have to have high occupancy all year round (which for most never happens) to even begin making a profit.

People like to say bars here are for fools who want to be parted with their money, but these small guest houses/hotels are far worse and generally a lot more money.

[LivinginKata]

<snip>

Google "business for sale patong" some day and you will find page after page of these places (and coincidentally you will find same for most other tourist areas like Pattaya, Samui so forth)...and then start doing the most basic maths of No. rooms times average rate and you will quickly discover most of these places would have to have high occupancy all year round (which for most never happens) to even begin making a profit.

People like to say bars here are for fools who want to be parted with their money, but these small guest houses/hotels are far worse and generally a lot more money.

Just out of idle curiosity I did google that ..

What astonished me was the large number advertised with ..

Reason for Selling: Previous tenant left with rental arrears

Revenue: unknown

Net Profit: unknown

Financials: not available

Who even thinks about about buying these palces ?

[madmitch]

According to a friend in the business, pretty much every hotel/guesthouse on Nanai Road is for sale

This might not just be due to a lack of business.

Don't forget that the Thai Hotel Association set the authorities on to all the "illegal" hotels.

The added expense of becoming "legal" maybe just "the straw that broke the camel's back".

Vary doubtful. A licence from the Tessabaan costs all of 1000 baht. On top of that there should be a 1% room tax if you are a hotel with more than a certain number of rooms. No, just an oversupply of rooms in Patong and not many will want to stay in an old building on Nanai when there are so many brand new places at the same price on the new road, whatever it's called.

If renting rooms then the individual tax payer is required to report and remit his income tax using the personal income tax return form PND 91 by the end of March after the year in which the income was paid. Failure to report income can result in an assessment by the Revenue Department. The penalty is equal to the amount of additional tax payable. Further a surcharge of 1.5% per month on the tax payable is applicable.

Finally, it should also be noted that an "additional" category of tax is also payable each time the rent is paid. It is the duty of the payer of the rent who is renting the room to deduct a "withholding tax" from the rental payment and submit it to the local Revenue Department. If the owner of the room is not a tax resident of Thailand the withholding tax rate is 15%. . If the owner is a tax resident of Thailand and the payer is a juristic person, the withholding tax rate is 5%.

I believe this relates to personal income tax if you rent out a private room. It's not a hotel tax.

[LivinginKata]

I believe this relates to personal income tax if you rent out a private room. It's not a hotel tax.

As of now there in no 'hotel tax' on private rooms, but there is property tax about 12% of rental income, and personal tax based on personal income generated. I can tell you it's qute a big hit to our small business.

Edited May 13, 2016 by LivinginKata

[madmitch]

I believe this relates to personal income tax if you rent out a private room. It's not a hotel tax.

As of now there in no 'hotel tax' on private rooms, but there is property tax about 12% of rental income, and personal tax based on personal income generated. I can tell you it's qute a big hit to our small business.

You're right to use the term "as of now". As the Airbnb model grows it would not surprise me to see additional taxation on private rooms.

Anyway, we've gone way off topic here. Is Patong still dead?

[xylophone]

<snip>

Google "business for sale patong" some day and you will find page after page of these places (and coincidentally you will find same for most other tourist areas like Pattaya, Samui so forth)...and then start doing the most basic maths of No. rooms times average rate and you will quickly discover most of these places would have to have high occupancy all year round (which for most never happens) to even begin making a profit.

People like to say bars here are for fools who want to be parted with their money, but these small guest houses/hotels are far worse and generally a lot more money.

Just out of idle curiosity I did google that ..

What astonished me was the large number advertised with ..

Reason for Selling: Previous tenant left with rental arrears

Revenue: unknown

Net Profit: unknown

Financials: not available

Who even thinks about about buying these palces ?

"Who even thinks about about buying these places "?

The "bewildered" or terminally stupid.

[johnatong]

<snip>

Google "business for sale patong" some day and you will find page after page of these places (and coincidentally you will find same for most other tourist areas like Pattaya, Samui so forth)...and then start doing the most basic maths of No. rooms times average rate and you will quickly discover most of these places would have to have high occupancy all year round (which for most never happens) to even begin making a profit.

People like to say bars here are for fools who want to be parted with their money, but these small guest houses/hotels are far worse and generally a lot more money.

Just out of idle curiosity I did google that ..

What astonished me was the large number advertised with ..

Reason for Selling: Previous tenant left with rental arrears

Revenue: unknown

Net Profit: unknown

Financials: not available

Who even thinks about about buying these palces ?

"Who even thinks about about buying these places "?

The "bewildered" or terminally stupid.

Small guest house near to where we live has just got a new "owner". The place has been empty for about two years and prior to that was open for approx 9 months before folding.

Perhaps this time it will succeed ?

[xylophone]

On the guesthouse subject, drove past one yesterday in the south end of Nanai which was advertising rooms from 5,500 baht per month! Not much profit in that I wouldn't think.

Just down the road a little bit and opposite this, the Italian restaurant which closed and reopened has now been rebranded as a Thai seafood restaurant, so let's hope it serves more than the handful of customers it did over the many months it was open before.

The restaurant at the front of the Chang resort/Hotel in Nanai has still not fully opened despite being finished for a couple of months and an informed source nearby tells me that they are now waiting for the upcoming high season to open fully?

The newly opened Dons B-B-Q was about half full on Saturday evening when I drove past, with some punters choosing to sit right next to the road to enjoy diesel fumes and dirt with their food, but then that's a personal choice.

Bangla Road was fairly busy but the two main "off Bangla Sois" really could have done with quite a few more customers, in particular Soi Sea Dragon, and mentioning that Soi, I was out with a few friends and we bumped into the owner of quite a few of the go-go bars, as well as Tao, and he invited us to have a look inside one of his newer establishments, Harem (I had been in there once before and didn't rate it) however I was voted down and in we went and much to my surprise, there were some very attractive girls in there, however I'm not keen on these places and more so when they pester you for a thimble sized tequila which costs 240 baht and can rarely speak any English, so I left after about 10 min and the other guys stayed on a bit longer as far as I am aware.

Noticed that one of the Italian restaurants (the latest one to open) had closed down in Soi Patong Resort, but was unable to establish whether it was just a temporary closure for this low period, or for good. Most surprising was the little beer bar opposite which has been in existence forever, now has a for sale/rent sign on it.

Maybe Patong is dead, dying or in its death throes, however the stupidity here seems to know no end, as witnessed by some of the above comments, however one which topped the lot is that a Thai girl who invested in "The Park" apartments in Nanai Road has now agreed to cancel the agreement on her original apartment and "purchased" one higher up the building, which costs a lot more money. Now the strange part is that ever since she put a deposit down she has been paying around 20,000 baht per month (now even more), even though the project stalled around 18 months ago, because they had convinced her that it was the right thing to do and that it would be completed "soon"........if not, then she would get her money back!!!

Whatever would possess anyone to keep paying a monthly purchase/lease agreement when the place had stopped all that time ago, and with no work since, despite promises of completion dates being missed every time I really don't know, and I think these are going to go the same way as the Ace Condominium project, whenever the owners of that are going to be brought to account (they've been given several warnings, however nothing has happened and I will be keen to see exactly who is behind this and where the money has gone, if it should ever come to court, however I suspect people in high places and fat brown envelopes are guiding the progress on this).

Maybe Patong is going "ting tong" before it dies?

[honu]

I'm sure this must come up in other places on this forum as well, and there was a post mentioning a TAT reference that tourism is really up 15% this year, but in general how could someone know if tourism is down, or to what extent?

There is plenty of circumstantial evidence discussed here, about businesses going out of business, or places looking empty, but if related government agency numbers aren't a good reference what would be?

Of course the next point is always that Chinese tour-group tourists are replacing Russians or Europeans with more money, and I can't imagine any stats capturing tourists place of origin, and even if it did separating out travel by groups versus individual planning.

I just visited Samui two weeks ago and there was no way for me to get a feel for it tourism was slow there or not, especially since it's not a higher season. On the way back we stopped by Chumporn, a beach resort, and it was deserted, but more of the same, not sure if that would've been different a few years ago at this time.

[LivinginKata]

I just visited Samui two weeks ago and there was no way for me to get a feel for it tourism was slow there or not, especially since it's not a higher season. On the way back we stopped by Chumporn, a beach resort, and it was deserted, but more of the same, not sure if that would've been different a few years ago at this time.

Chumphon beach resort ?? No comparion to Patong or Phuket. It's always dead there ...

[DrDave]

I'm sure this must come up in other places on this forum as well, and there was a post mentioning a TAT reference that tourism is really up 15% this year, but in general how could someone know if tourism is down, or to what extent?

There is plenty of circumstantial evidence discussed here, about businesses going out of business, or places looking empty, but if related government agency numbers aren't a good reference what would be?

Of course the next point is always that Chinese tour-group tourists are replacing Russians or Europeans with more money, and I can't imagine any stats capturing tourists place of origin, and even if it did separating out travel by groups versus individual planning.

I just visited Samui two weeks ago and there was no way for me to get a feel for it tourism was slow there or not, especially since it's not a higher season. On the way back we stopped by Chumporn, a beach resort, and it was deserted, but more of the same, not sure if that would've been different a few years ago at this time.

While it may be possible that TAT's figure of a 15% increase in tourism could be correct, the real issue is whether there has been a corresponding increase in revenue. The consensus is that there's been a decrease in revenue year over year and that's what people have been discussing here.

A few years ago, it would have been nearly impossible to find a decent room for 500 baht in Patong during low season, let alone high season. It seems that many larger guesthouses and small hotels have been beaten into submission by the package tour companies just so they could keep their doors open. The hotels and guesthouses that are too small to participate in the package tours can't survive unless they can offer something truly unique to independent tourists. This is borne out by the number of newer cookie cutter small hotels and guesthouses that have closed, or are up for sale. Now, add to this the fact that a large number of the tourists coming to Phuket are participants in package tours, where they're told (and sometimes forced) where to shop, and where to eat, and we can see why small businesses like restaurants and bars are finding themselves in a world of financial hurt, and thus closing.

The comparison year over year goes like this: 15% more bodies in total, with a very significant number paying less for rooms, shopping and eating in tour-affiliated venues, and generally not drinking in bars, versus last year's number of bodies, all paying a higher room rate, eating, drinking and shopping in local independent venues.

As for stats concerning the nationality of arrivals - obviously Immigration has these, and I would expect that these figures are shared with TAT. I have no idea whether this is done, but it seems to be good business practice to require tour operators to report their monthly arrivals to TAT.