Hi from the UK!

I could use a little guidance, if anyone could offer some advice that would be much appreciated.

I'm fed up of the rat race, and fed up of haemorrhaging thousands every month just to exist. I realised recently that all I've done for the past several years is work and then escape work by spending all my money on toys and enslaving myself to more work. Ultimately, I want to build a business to provide financial freedom for the rest of my days, but we all have to start somewhere...

I work in international oil and gas recruitment, which means I can basically work from anywhere (timezones/phone/internet connectivity permitting). So I'm thinking, move somewhere cheap, earn lots of money, save 90% of it, then I have the capital to do what I want next. I've looked at a few places - Portgual (as it's in the EU), Montevideo in Uruguay (looks amazing but far too expensive for my purposes)...nowhere appeals like Chiang Mai does. It seems to tick all the boxes for my ideal place to live. Weather, price, way of life, some of the best motorcycling roads in the world nearby (I'm a motorbike nut...although I know that decent vehicles are the one thing that are NOT cheap in Thailand...).

So my vague plan is, set up a Hong Kong Ltd company and bank account (tax free unless trading with HK companies, stable international banking, multiple currencies with ease), and work remotely from Chiang Mai using Vonage or another VOIP service. Then do business primarily with companies in Perth, Singapore, KL etc. High Western income, great lifestyle for less than my rent costs me here...

I also have health costs to consider, as I take regular medication for (controlled) epilepsy, which I see would set me back nearly £10,000/year in Thailand. But that would be the same anywhere outside of the EU.

From what I've read, the visa situation is a lot tougher than it used to be? As I can see my only options are to pay 2 million baht for the Thailand Elite visa, which I simply can't afford at the moment, or potentially sign up to a language school and get a one year education visa...which could be workable. I wouldn't live somewhere without learning the language, anyway...

I understand most (all?) of the people that run remote businesses while living in Thailand are running purely internet businesses, whereas I would be dealing with corporate clients which potentially complicates matters. Although, being in the same timezone, there would be nothing stopping me from using a virtual office in Hong Kong and routing calls through a HK telephone number. But how would the Thai authorities see it?

Is there the makings of a workable plan of action here? Or any other complicating factors I'm not seeing?

Many thanks in advance.

Edited February 3, 201511 yr by rv85

You would be working in Thailand, for which you need a work permit, for which you need a Thai company.

It is illegal as you would be living and working in Thailand don't have a work permit and don't pay tax.

What are you asking is often debated. There are many similar threads, that eventually end being closed because people keeps bickering, e.g.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/796314-staying-in-thailand-for-online-work-what-is-the-situation-now/

and, BTW, the time zones are an hour apart.

Digressing ...

Montevideo in Uruguay (looks amazing but far too expensive for my purposes)

Uruguay is not expensive by any standard. It is kind of quiet place, not exactly amazing.

I know that decent vehicles are the one thing that are NOT cheap in Thailand...).

Check out the new Honda CB650, cheaper in Thailand than in EU or anywhere else.

It's perfectly fine and legitimate to earn money online and be paid outside of Thailand whilst being here, without a Work Permit - so long as you are not 'working' for the purpose of Thai legislation.

The definition of 'work' in the legislation can be interpreted to cover any mental or physical activity whatsoever, but nobody has ever been prosecuted for acting in the manner you describe. As you can probably tell, opinion on this forum (which, without any precedent is all you will get) on how the judiciary *would* interpret it is polarised, but the fact is that this has scenario has never been heard in court, because nobody has ever been taken there for it. Take from that what you will.

For 100% security whilst minimising tax, set up a Thai company as well and invoice your HK company (though I'd recommend a BVI company with HK Banking) just enough to pay your salary in Thailand and cover your 4 employees tax and accounting fees (65k a month should cover it). Alternatively look at something like http://iglu.in.th/freelance/ and do the same thing via them. Either option would result in the ability to stay long term under a Non Immigrant B Visa and would qualify you for a Work Permit.

Bear in mind that any income that is remitted to Thailand in the year it is earned is liable to Thai income tax. For this reason if you do earn income from a HK or BVI company, I recommend that you open a personal offshore account, pay dividends to that, and let it sit there until the next January the 1st before bringing any of it into Thailand.

Finally - the Elite visa is 500k for 5 years, not 2 million, however it would not affect the question of a need for a Work Permit in any respect.

I'd look further into Uruguay, perhaps outside of the capital, if I were in your shoes, or Buenos Aires, or Sao Paulo, or Rio. I spent the same as I do here in the latter 3, and all of them had a far more vibrant atmosphere in my opinion. Also less grumpy old western gits, which was nice.

Edited February 3, 201511 yr by rwdrwdrwd

Thanks all.

Ahh, the CB650 could work. I have a Triumph Daytona 675 at the moment...twice the price in Thailand as in the UK, and would cost twice its value to import!

I've just dropped Iglu a message. That's an interesting option...although slashing my income considerably. I was thinking HK company as it wouldn't have the "tax haven" stigma associated with it as a BVI company would. Isn't it virtually impossible to set up a company in Thailand, especially if it's for a one man operation? One of my clients has an office in Bangkok and hiring there is tough for them due to the Thai:foreigner ratio rules, and they're a large multinational.

I'm surprised actually after learning about the Thai immigration situation about the extent of the "digital nomad" (ergh, I hate that term) thing in Chiang Mai. Seems pretty tough to set up any kind of medium- or long-term residence.

I was also looking at Chile (but earthquakes), Argentina (going downhill fast), Colombia (hmm tempting), Cambodia/Vietnam/Malaysia which don't really appeal so much. There's some really cheap places in EE like Budapest and Bucharest but I don't see the point of uprooting my life to a cheap cold country when I could go to a cheap hot country instead. Other parts of Uruguay is a good call, I'll look into that. Prices in Montevideo look to be more expensive than they are in cheaper parts of the UK!

Not so much interested in any of the usual suspects like Bangkok...I don't like huge crazy cities. Already escaped London once.

Interesting trend...Westerners becoming the new economic migrants? rwdrwdrwd, are you of the mind that for someone in my position, Thailand just doesn't come up favourably on the cost-benefit ratio anymore, compared to other options?

Check out that thread paz linked above, but other than that the Thai authorities definitely won't have an issue with you doing it for your first 6 months on a tourist visa. You're not classed as tax resident here over that period.

So just get on a plane with double entry tourist visa and find out for yourself if you enjoy it here.

All the bickering debate aside (I'm on the it's not illegal side) you're definitely a tourist on holiday in your first 6 months. And true tourists can tinker with online businesses while on their tourist visa http://asiancorrespondent.com/125980/thai-immigration-officials-say-digital-nomads-ok-to-work-on-tourist-visas/

Re-evaluate your stance for long-term stay after that, but I'll think you'll find many people with remote online business paid offshore as totally open with immigration about how they support themselves and have no problems long-term, like this guy in Chiang Mai:

When I got my last visa I was asked how I supported myself I told them I work on line and showed them statements confirming I was paid into my UK account, they were happy with this and gave me a visa. I've got no interest in being "under the radar" as far as I can see the only people who have an issue with the legality of on line work are other westerners posting on here and their opinions really don't matter.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/749038-with-a-thai-elite-visa-can-a-person-work-legally-as-a-digital-nomad/page-7#entry8314920

Edited February 3, 201511 yr by jspill

Awesome, thanks. The main thing I was concerned about is that it's not really an internet business, although it would be a remote business. It's mainly a phone business. Though if I had the business registered to a virtual office, be that in HK or the UK or wherever, and the bank accounts held offshore, not working with clients in Thailand, and a non-Thai phone number to do business with, it sounds like I'd be covered just the same?

Check out that thread paz linked above, but other than that the Thai authorities definitely won't have an issue with you doing it for your first 6 months on a tourist visa. You're not classed as tax resident here over that period.

So just get on a plane with double entry tourist visa and find out for yourself if you enjoy it here.

All the bickering debate aside (I'm on the it's not illegal side) you're definitely a tourist on holiday in your first 6 months. And true tourists can tinker with online businesses while on their tourist visa http://asiancorrespondent.com/125980/thai-immigration-officials-say-digital-nomads-ok-to-work-on-tourist-visas/

Re-evaluate your stance for long-term stay after that, but I'll think you'll find many people with remote online business paid offshore as totally open with immigration about how they support themselves and have no problems long-term, like this guy in Chiang Mai:

When I got my last visa I was asked how I supported myself I told them I work on line and showed them statements confirming I was paid into my UK account, they were happy with this and gave me a visa. I've got no interest in being "under the radar" as far as I can see the only people who have an issue with the legality of on line work are other westerners posting on here and their opinions really don't matter.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/749038-with-a-thai-elite-visa-can-a-person-work-legally-as-a-digital-nomad/page-7#entry8314920

Awesome, thanks. The main thing I was concerned about is that it's not really an internet business, although it would be a remote business. It's mainly a phone business. Though if I had the business registered to a virtual office, be that in HK or the UK or wherever, and the bank accounts held offshore, not working with clients in Thailand, and a non-Thai phone number to do business with, it sounds like I'd be covered just the same?

It would make no difference. The law doesn't cover these aspects. If you ask on this forum, you will be told that is illegal. Ultimately that should be decided by a judge, but so far no case in known.