Thailand to tax residents’ foreign income irrespective of remittance

[IntEdSource]

Having seen a large number of questions and debates on this forum regarding various topics related to international schools in Thailand, as well as many erroneous claims, I thought it might be beneficial to create a thread that offers information based on facts and data rather than speculation. Though I will provide my own opinions at times, I will also make it clear when I am doing so as opposed to drawing upon evidence.

As to my own background, I have worked in international education for over ten years, seven of which have been in Thailand. After initially teaching English elsewhere in Asia, I taught at what is typically termed a mid-tier international school in Bangkok and now work at one considered to be an elite school. My roles have been diverse and not solely restricted to teaching. I would prefer to retain my anonymity, and regardless of whether you agree with my choice to do (or choose to believe the content I post), I affirm that I am providing an insider's perspective.

I'm also more than willing to answer questions, and I will make it clear when I have a definite answer or am merely providing a best guess.

A Brief History of International Schools in Thailand

The first international school in Thailand, International School Bangkok (ISB), was founded in 1951 to provide children of American diplomats and expatriates with an American-quality education. At that time it was located in central Bangkok, on the land now occupied by NIST International School. Shortly thereafter, in 1957, Bangkok Patana School (BPS) opened to serve British nationals, and Ruamrudee International School (RIS) opened through its affiliation with the Catholic Church, and more specifically the Redemptorists. Very few other schools were established until 1992, when ISB relocated to northern Bangkok and members of the UN, who did not wish to send their children so far, lobbied the government to open New International School of Thailand (changed to NIST International School in 2012). This marked the end of the first era of international education in Thailand.

During the first few decades in which these first schools operated, the existing schools were composed entirely of expatriates. This changed in 1992 when the government decreed that Thais could enroll in international schools. Seeing the opportunity to capitalize on the ensuing demand, foreign and Thai investors began opening their own schools, leading to a boom throughout the 1990s in which dozens of schools were opened. While the first few non-profit schools remain, and represent the largest enrollments, more for-profit schools have continued to open each year, and the demand is expected to continue to grow with the full integration of the ASEAN Economic Community scheduled for this year.

Defining International Schools & the Debate over Tiers

At last count in 2015, approximately 150-160 institutions were registered with the Thai Ministry of Education (MOE) as international schools. Officially, this classification requires a minimum percentage of non-Thai students to be enrolled, but this has either been changed or is simply not enforced, as there are several major international schools that have a high percentage of Thai students, including Harrow International School (HIS), RIS and Shrewsbury International School (SHB). Other hallmarks of international schools, both in Thailand and abroad, typically include the offering of a curriculum other than that of the host country, a broader academic focus and similar features.

However, one further mark of an international school in Thailand is membership in the International Schools Association of Thailand (ISAT), of which there are approximately 100-110 members as of 2015. Membership within ISAT requires that the institution possess or be in pursuit of accreditation through one of a small number of accepted international accreditation bodies, among them the Council of International Schools (CIS), New England Association of Schools and Colleges (NEASC), Western Association of Schools and Colleges (WASC) and CfBT Education Trust. However, it should be noted that ISAT does not regulate or oversee the curricula of its member schools in any way; it was established in 1994 primarily to advance international education within Thailand and act as a representative for the schools in lobbying the MOE.

The debate over international school quality frequently arises, with supporters and detractors of differing schools assigning tier 1 (top tier), tier 2 (mid tier) or tier 3 (low tier) status. However, it should be emphasized that there is no clear agreement on what constitutes a tier 1, 2 or 3 school, and no such definition exists in peer-reviewed literature related to international education. Fees may correlate to quality, but they cannot predict it, nor can accreditation, remuneration, test scores, university matriculation or other factors in isolation. The reality is that if we accept that schools can loosely be categorized within tiers, all of these elements play a part in defining the overall quality, and thus tier, of each school.

In my personal opinion, the lines between the three tiers can be blurred among Thailand's international schools, but most can safely be placed within one of the three when examining many of the above criteria as a whole.

International School Fees

Fees at the differing schools vary widely, often due to the initial available capital and the market position they seek to occupy. Not all schools begin on the low end. A good example of one that opened more recently with a higher tuition cost is Berkeley International School, which opened in 2010 but has already entered the top ten list of most expensive schools. On the other hand, others seek to compete purely through a low-cost strategy, including schools such as Modern International School, Glory International School and Crescent International School. Institutions such as these also cater toward a far more specific market as well, narrowing their ability to raise fees - and thus gain capital - as their competitors can do.

As indicated previously, the reality is that the fees that schools charge do play a part in determining the quality of education for a simple reason: more funds translate to a greater investment in the teachers, resources and facilities. Again, this must be examined in balance with other criteria, but is is one indicator. As of 2015, the top ten most expensive international schools in Bangkok are:

1. Shrewsbury International School (Est. 2003, British curriculum): THB 482,100 - 865,500
2. International School Bangkok (Est. 1951, American curriculum): THB 457,000 - 830,000
3. Harrow International School (Est. 1998, British curriculum): THB 380,000 - 770,000
4. NIST International School (Est. 1992, IB curriculum): THB 422,700 - 768,900
5. Bangkok Patana School (Est. 1957, British curriculum): THB 378,100 - 736,200
6. Concordian International School (Est. 2001, IB curriculum): THB 397,200 - 627,600
7. KIS International School (Est. 1998, IB curriculum): THB 295,500 - 622,000
8. Swiss School/RIS Swiss Section (Est. 1963, Swiss curriculum): THB 224,500 - 614,300
9. Ruamrudee International School (Est. 1957, American curriculum): THB 389,000 - 586,600
10. Berkeley International School (Est. 2010, American curriculum): THB 360,000 - 582,000

These are only the base annual tuition fees at the lowest (typically nursery) and highest (typically Years 12-13/Grades 11-12) levels and do not include testing fees, registration fees, capital investment options, meals, uniforms or transportation. Additionally, several do offer discounts for the enrollment of siblings, though it is uncommon for the most expensive schools.

On the other end of the spectrum are the international schools that charge even less than most bilingual schools. Ekamai International School, Kinkaid International School, Kevalee International School and the previously mentioned Modern International School each charge less THB 200,000 annually even at the high school level. This is significantly less than many of the well-regarded bilingual schools such as Amnuay Silpa School.

Are International Schools Worth the Expense?

Again assuming that we can safely categorize most schools within one of the three tiers, my answer to this question would depend on the tier in question. The low tier schools in my opinion are the only ones that I definitely would not send my child to given the other options that are available. Though they legally possess international status through the MOE, the reality is that they quite often cannot afford Western teachers, and if they do, those teachers most often possess no background in education. A far better option, if budgets are a concern, is sending your child to a quality bilingual school.

This leaves mid and high tier schools. The mid tier schools pose a greater challenge, as they can vary greatly in their approaches, facilities, philosophies and resources. The bottom line is that most are on par with the average public school in the United States and United Kingdom, and many do exceed that quality of education due to their ability to provide more individualized attention and higher quality teaching. Based on my personal work experience, connections within those schools, and feedback from parents and students who attend them, I would identify schools within that category as St. Andrews International School (note that there are two St. Andrews chains in Bangkok, and I would not include the other in this list), Bangkok International Preparatory & Secondary School (Bangkok Prep), Wells International School, International Community School, KIS International School, Regent's International School, Concordian International School and Ruamrudee International School.

However, one major factor holds back several - though not all - of these schools from becoming more successful and challenging the top schools: their for-profit status. Though they all provide an above-average education that enables their graduates to attend excellent universities around the world, several of them also possess significant issues due to the ownership. In some cases this takes the form of micromanagement, while in others it involves a failure to maintain the facilities, even while investing sufficiently in the educational programs. Despite these flaws, however, I would reiterate that on the whole they provide a quality education that is worth the investment.

The top tier schools are another matter entirely. I argue that only three schools in Bangkok are truly top-tier, while four others border on it. International School Bangkok, Bangkok Patana School and NIST International School each possess resources that far outstrip most other schools not only in Thailand, but worldwide. More importantly, they are all non-profit, meaning the parent community possesses oversight and influence in their operations.

Shrewsbury International School, Harrow International School, International Community School and Ruamrudee International School are the top four mid-tier schools. Shrewsbury and Harrow, despite their immense capital, may be held back in one sense by being for-profit, and they also do not have the diverse student populations as these three. International Community School, while non-profit and progressing rapidly, isn't quite at the point of competing with them, and based on my conversations with administrators there, they have no intention of doing so. Finally, at one time Ruamrudee would have been included in this list. However, it underwent significant issues several years ago, including the mismanagement of funds. Combined with its high percentage of Thai students, it also cannot compete with the big three, and it may never recover.

Ultimately, if price were no object, I would recommend ISB, Patana or NIST. In addition to being non-profit, these schools possess the leadership, resources and quality that enable them to compete with other top schools globally. Given the differences in their curricula (American vs. British vs. IB), locations and cultures, the best choice for a child would ultimately be based on factors other than quality. There are several lines of evidence that could be offered for making the case for these three, but they are varied and require elaboration, so I leave it open to questions from others.

International School Salaries & Benefits

Just as tuition fees can be dramatically different, base salaries within international schools also cover a wide range, often precisely because of the corresponding variance in the fees. Additionally, their non-profit or for-profit statuses affect the funds that can be allocated toward staff benefits. Following with the loose classification of schools above, the range for the average teacher in 2015 typically includes:

• Low-tier schools (usually only hire locally)
  • Base salaries: THB 40,000 - 70,000 per month
  • Benefits: Few to none - basic insurance, small bonus, no flights, no housing allowance, no personal professional development fund, no relocation stipend, no retirement funds/plan
• Mid-tier schools (hire both locally and internationally)
  • Base salaries: THB 50,000 - 120,000 per month
  • Benefits: Some - basic insurance, bonus, annual or biannual flights, either no housing allowance or a token amount, a staff-wide professional development fund and/or a small personal fund, sometimes a relocation stipend, pay for additional duties and/or responsibilities, may include basic retirement funds/plan
• Upper mid-tier and high-tier schools (usually hire internationally, most often through employment fairs, but occasionally will hire locally)
  • Base salaries: 100,000 - 200,000+ per month
  • Benefits: Many - full insurance, including dental; large bonus, annual flights for teacher and dependents, generous housing allowance, large personal professional development fund, relocation stipend, pay for additional duties and/or responsibilities, matching retirement schemes

The majority of teachers I knew in my previous positions fell within the mid-tier range. However, an average teacher at the top-tier schools, with around ten to fifteen years of experience, often earns approximately 180,000 - 200,000 per month (net, including the housing allowance). Again, the range can vary depending on the school. Beyond the benefits listed above, they also gain access to resources that their peers at other schools do not, including professional connections to many of the top educators worldwide, and de facto membership in many professional educational organizations that provide high-quality training opportunities.

Questions?

Due to the sheer number of factors that come into play when considering a school either as a parent or a teacher, I will be writing for weeks in order to address every aspect of international education here in Thailand. As indicated earlier, I'm willing to provide additional details about any of these areas, or others, and answer any questions.

[jbauer]

Edit- sorry, replied when I should have PMed.

Edited February 14, 2015 by jbauer

[tariq786]

Around $10,000 - $20,000 a year ? Seems more like a money minting biz than providing real education.

[yankee99]

Very informative thanks. With twins ill be forced to return to the states eventually. At $20-30k thell be going to free public school

[StefanBBK]

I wish we could afford this. We have two children and simply can't spend that much.

Given that the kids are half Thai, I also see great benefit in bilingual schools, as there is more focus on Thai culture and language. How many of the international schools teach Thai reading and writing? Any thoughts on Sarasas?

[kingalfred]

Didnt really write details/quality of the curriculum and teaching

[cgphuket]

One thing I found surprising was the percentage of international school teachers with drug and alcohol abuse issues. The stereotype is that government school and language center teachers are the least qualified, therefor the most dodgy. But I have work in the addiction field in Thailand for years and several schools have asked for help with their teachers on drugs. My initial thinking was "they are making so much money (rock star wages compared to most teachers) so why would they risk their jobs by doing illegal drugs"? But I discovered that the more pay, the more privileged they think they are and the more disposable income they have to spend on these things. I certain international school in Phuket did surprise drug testing a few years ago, and 1/3 of their teachers were positive for meth, cocaine or narcotics. Thats not to even mention alcohol, just drugs. I spoke with one school director who was worried about a teacher with a drug history. When I suggested mandatory drug testing for all teachers he said "no way, we would have to fire half our staff". Personally, I think when working with children, and getting paid 10 times the local wage to do so, you can at least not use illegal drugs...

[IntEdSource]

tariq786:

In respect to cost, the top schools here on on par with the top private schools globally. As to the question of whether or not that price tag is worth it anywhere - not only in Thailand - I believe they are. In essence they are charging the premium price that an Ivy League school does, and in return they provide not only a superb education, but also opportunities that students often do not get at other schools. They also provide connections to influential peers - connections that ultimately do provide a great return. (This is something that can often be seen through the accomplishments of the alumni of these schools.)

I do agree that the cost is not necessarily worth it for everyone. In my previous school we had encountered students who had left ISB, NIST and Patana precisely because they did not feel comfortable in those settings and did not have ambitions that would justify paying the fees year on year. All else aside, however, I think the case can be made that if these personal factors are excluded, the higher quality is there. These schools recruit many of the best teachers worldwide, and that comes with a cost.

yankee99:

When the budget simply isn't there, I don't think public schools are a bad option. I know many successful individuals who graduated from normal schools in Canada, the US and UK. Issues aside, they still provide a higher quality of education than many countries.

StefanBKK:

Bilingual schools are unfortunately not my area of expertise, so I cannot provide good advice in that area. For every positive recommendation I've encountered for a bilingual school, I've come across a former staff member or student who lambasts it. Licensed international schools are required by the MOE to provide Thai language and culture classes to students with Thai citizenship, and they leave it open to other students to select it as a foreign language. Thai cultural celebrations do take place in every one of these schools, no matter the size, but the focus is definitely nowhere near as strong as it is in bilingual or government schools.

kingalfred:

As I mentioned in the post, the sheer number of factors that come into consideration would mean a book of text, but I'm willing to provide information regarding a particular curriculum, approach or school if there are specific ones you had in mind.

cgphuket:

I have worked with one or two teachers that we were relatively sure were using drugs, but they were the exception rather than the norm. In my current position I would hard-pressed to name one who could be doing so based on any of the usual indicators (not that this proves anything). Most teachers we hire come from overseas, have families, and are involved in their own businesses and charities outside of their work at the school. Again, this does not rule out there being drug users in any school, but based in my own experience, the school you mention sounds like an outlier.

Alcohol use is an entirely different matter, but I wouldn't even want to tackle that subject, as it's incredibly difficult to judge each person's individual tolerance and use. Of my close friends who represent several mid to high-tier international schools, I would only identify one as a semi-heavy drinker, but even that individual is a superb teacher, particularly with younger children.

[Baa_Mango]

Drug abuse in rampant but not in TOP tier international schools. Soso (Phuket?..) schools and also private Bi-lingual schools I think it is common, but not the norm. A big difference I think comes down to outside hires or domestic hires. Some people just live in Thailand because it is fun and easy.

[a1a1]

thanks intedsource, very helpful!

could you pls comment a bit about admissions to the top and top mid-tier schools? do they admit all applicants that have the financial resources?

[SlyAnimal]

Very informative post.

I'll probably sticky it in a few days (PM me if I forget), but will leave it as is for now (As a lot of people look at threads with recent posts, rather than stickies).

[Thai at Heart]

How many provide an education to the same level even of a quality comprehensive in the UK let alone a day private school in the uk.

Note these fees are for day pupils . if it were for boarding they would be approaching the same fees as a middle boarding school in the UK. Compare the facilities of these schools and the quality of the teachers with the namesake school in the uk, and they are a poor imitation.

[IntEdSource]

a1a1:

Certainly - I'm happy to provide information simply to clear up many of the misconceptions I've seen.

Admissions policies and admittance rates vary a great deal among many of the mid-tier schools. My previous mid-tier school, which did not charge nearly as much as many of the others, had a waiting list for about half the grade/year levels. It would still, however, turn students away on a regular basis if they clearly did not have the academic ability to function in that environment - even if the parents were more than happy to pay.

In contrast, I have a few friends at one particular mid-tier school that charges substantially more but is willing to take almost any applicant, partly because they just want more students. My friends have told me that, as a result, they have had to increasingly address low-level ESL/ESL learners in the school, often in the same classes as fluent or near-fluent speakers. It just depends on the school and the commitment of its owners and/or leaders to provide a good education rather than simply trying to increase profits.

The top schools are almost always full at every grade/year level, and they often do not have a waiting list. They instead use a waiting pool, in which applicants are accepted based not only on the date they apply, but also their nationality, academic ability, extra-curricular involvement and many other factors. These schools simply have the luxury of being able to choose the students that will allow them to balance their classes to represent a mix of nationalities and abilities. Will money help? Yes, a promised donation would certainly increase a student's chance of being accepted, but only if he/she is capable of succeeding at the school.

SlyAnimal:

Thank you, and I'm glad you and others are finding the information to be of some value.

Thai at Heart:

Several of the schools do provide an education of an equal level even to a private day school of comparable cost. Using standardized test scores as an example (though other benchmarks and indicators could be used as well), it becomes apparent that the top schools in Bangkok post comparable scores to Western private schools that charge approximately the same cost - or more in some cases:

• IB scores at NIST and IB scores at ISB compared to IB scores at UK schools compared to IB scores at US schools (requires a bit of digging)
• GCSE scores at Bangkok Patana compared to GCSE scores in at UK schools

Similar results can be found in comparing other standardized testing such as the ISA and AP exams. As to the final result, every one of these three schools has also had many its graduates accepted into every top university in the world over the years. If that is the end goal, then the quality of education is definitely on par.

This is not only restricted to the top schools. Several of my former students (when I was still teaching) spent a year studying at public schools in the United States. They were not the best students, and the schools were decent, but they later told me that they felt it was much easier than the teaching and learning standards at our school in Bangkok.

I do agree that there are many international schools in Thailand that are not providing that same quality, but they are definitely not non-existent.

[think_too_mut]

"All else aside, however, I think the case can be made that if these personal factors are excluded, the higher quality is there. These schools recruit many of the best teachers worldwide, and that comes with a cost."

My daughter attends what could be described as a "Tier 1" international school in Japan since 2008. The price is nearly the same as in Thai.

I have met and spoke to many teachers (none had lasted more than 2 years, except prinicipals). They all said there is a "chain of people" who hop from one country to another, informing each other and even handing over furniture and house stuff to their successors. Nothing like "best teachers worldwide". Just plain folks who are professional educators. What I have gathered, many do that to escape the hell of US public education, bringing their own kids to attend the schools they teach at, at a subsidised price.

Among them, never noticed anything like "teachers" in Thailand, alcohol, drugs or womanizing.

One PE teacher i was friendly with (a fellow Australian) when leaving said "I would not really miss the money". I knew she was on 3 million Yen (that time it was 70,000THB a month).

Those 200K THB salaries are probably more appropriate for the principals and are more like for University lecturers. That calibre of grade 1-12 teachers is neither sought nor available for international schools in Japan, let alone in the 3rd world countries.

The teachers who revealed or semi-revealed their salaries were all where a public teacher of their rank would have been in the US + discounted school for their kids + 1 yearly ticket home + partial housing cost (like 500$ a month).

A couple, both professional teachers with 2 kids confided "We do this 6 times in 6 different countries and our kids are safe, clean and Uni-ready after the world tour". None of them had any illusion they were "world class". That particular couple is now in Vientiane, after Doha, Qatar.

[Jonathan Fairfield]

Topic promoted to news forum.

Thanks for sharing this info, it's excellent and will also be included in the Thaivisa newsletter.

Thanks again.

[bkkgooner]

Around $10,000 - $20,000 a year ? Seems more like a money minting biz than providing real education.

The top three schools in that list offer a pretty amazing education to be fair, they don't have a very high teacher turnover either

Edited February 20, 2015 by bkkgooner

[maidee]

save the money you would have waisted on international school

put them in private bilingual schools

when they graduate, give them the saved money as graduation present (worth a small house, several cars ...)

[bkkgooner]

"All else aside, however, I think the case can be made that if these personal factors are excluded, the higher quality is there. These schools recruit many of the best teachers worldwide, and that comes with a cost."

My daughter attends what could be described as a "Tier 1" international school in Japan since 2008. The price is nearly the same as in Thai.

I have met and spoke to many teachers (none had lasted more than 2 years, except prinicipals). They all said there is a "chain of people" who hop from one country to another, informing each other and even handing over furniture and house stuff to their successors. Nothing like "best teachers worldwide". Just plain folks who are professional educators. What I have gathered, many do that to escape the hell of US public education, bringing their own kids to attend the schools they teach at, at a subsidised price.

Among them, never noticed anything like "teachers" in Thailand, alcohol, drugs or womanizing.

One PE teacher i was friendly with (a fellow Australian) when leaving said "I would not really miss the money". I knew she was on 3 million Yen (that time it was 70,000THB a month).

Those 200K THB salaries are probably more appropriate for the principals and are more like for University lecturers. That calibre of grade 1-12 teachers is neither sought nor available for international schools in Japan, let alone in the 3rd world countries.

The teachers who revealed or semi-revealed their salaries were all where a public teacher of their rank would have been in the US + discounted school for their kids + 1 yearly ticket home + partial housing cost (like 500$ a month).

A couple, both professional teachers with 2 kids confided "We do this 6 times in 6 different countries and our kids are safe, clean and Uni-ready after the world tour". None of them had any illusion they were "world class". That particular couple is now in Vientiane, after Doha, Qatar.

Go to those top three schools and tell me how many teachers you find into drugs and womanizing, mostly married couples working in those places. They make a lot of the single staff stay on campus for the first year as well. Most of us teachers in Thailand just work for our families and do a good job but cheers for tarring us all with the same brush. There are a huge amount of teachers there for over five years because they look after their staff. Plenty of teachers there on 120k++

That couple you referred to sound like a couple of idiots and does Vientiene have a world class international school? I very much doubt it

[rotary]

Great article! I need to do the research but you might have saved me from sentencing myself to moving to the USA for school.

Thanks for your efforts.

[davidst01]

This is a good thread and thanks to the OP for sharing all this information.

My question to OP is....

If we want our precious one to be accepted into Medicine or Dentistry, for example, are we better off sending our child to a government primary school. The reason being is that there is a government system at the schools whereby the smart students can apply (if they have the respective grades) to get into medicine or dentistry. Its how my wife got into her medical course. I dont know the name of this system but there is a quota applied depending on where you live and what school you go to.

Can you comment on this or provide advice? thanks

[Silom]

ICS Bangkok is also a very good international school, resonable priced. http://ics.ac.th/

[wvavin]

Its not nice to comment on educational institutions but the monetary figures are able to tell anyone with a sane mind to see they are worth the money spent especially a place like this we called Bangkok!

[easybullet3]

my son went to an International JUNIOR school in Bangkok.

yes, it was expensive.. and YES i liked it a lot. it was really cosy and like a small family. (not a large school). the teachers were all REAL teachers with REAL Teaching degrees. their methods were professional..

once he left Junior school and went to high school, i was severely disappointed. The international high schools here in bangkok (12 to 16 years old) almost ALL look like money-making machines. with NO REGARD for the children. ALL my sons friends tell me their schools have LOTS of bullying and the teachers do NOTHING about it. they told me that so many of the students are swearing... and even (in Bangkok Prep) my sons friends Teacher says <deleted>*K often... (and the kids laugh).. (but, what kind of a school is this?)

realy I am just unimpressed with all the HIGH SCHOOLS here.

kindergarten and junior school, ok. but higher than that, i feel they are a rip off.

[In Town]

This is a good thread and thanks to the OP for sharing all this information.

My question to OP is....

If we want our precious one to be accepted into Medicine or Dentistry, for example, are we better off sending our child to a government primary school. The reason being is that there is a government system at the schools whereby the smart students can apply (if they have the respective grades) to get into medicine or dentistry. Its how my wife got into her medical course. I dont know the name of this system but there is a quota applied depending on where you live and what school you go to.

Can you comment on this or provide advice? thanks

I don't think the stop tier schools are a useful route into top Thai universities. Children that attend ISB or NIST or any top tier American international school in any country will become culturally American, regardless of the nationality of their parents, and I assume its the same for the British-system school. Consequently, the cost of the schools is only justifiable if the intention is to send the child to a university in an English-speaking country.

[think_too_mut]

Go to those top three schools and tell me how many teachers you find into drugs and womanizing, mostly married couples working in those places. They make a lot of the single staff stay on campus for the first year as well. Most of us teachers in Thailand just work for our families and do a good job but cheers for tarring us all with the same brush. There are a huge amount of teachers there for over five years because they look after their staff. Plenty of teachers there on 120k++

That couple you referred to sound like a couple of idiots and does Vientiene have a world class international school? I very much doubt it

You go to post#8 and find that the OP was talking of drugs and alcohol, replying to someone who had asked about it. I just said no trace of that in Japanese international schools.

That teachers work for their families, that is exactly what I said, even gave their rationale behind moving between countries.

Teachers on 120K+ - what an achievement! That's what they would be on at home. It's not even what it used to be for Thai nationals, plenty of skilled Thais on that or more in non-teaching jobs, just look the city's skyline, the skyscrapers are stuffed with them..

"World class internationals school" may be kicking some ass in Thailand. In Japan, Korea, Hong Kong, Singapore, Taiwan, they are plain rubbish. Locals who waste their formation years in them can score for Uni exam probably 30% of what kids from the free public schools can do.

Just your post may nudge the readers into thinking that teachers in BKK "world class schools" are not only far from rocket scientists (as they were tried to be peddled as) but on or even below the par of average folks with skills.

[kingstonkid]

How many of the schools at the mid tier level are actually teaching the kids to read spell and write.

I teach privately and find that most schools put together a study package that really makes the parents look like their kids are learning however, the same kids can not spell the colours or know how to read and form words.

I think the worst part is the automatic pass. I was at a school with a child that had a significant learning disability but had graduated to pratom 5 because daddy paid the fees and she had perfect attendance.

Is this common

[nicky2012]

One thing I found surprising was the percentage of international school teachers with drug and alcohol abuse issues. The stereotype is that government school and language center teachers are the least qualified, therefor the most dodgy. But I have work in the addiction field in Thailand for years and several schools have asked for help with their teachers on drugs. My initial thinking was "they are making so much money (rock star wages compared to most teachers) so why would they risk their jobs by doing illegal drugs"? But I discovered that the more pay, the more privileged they think they are and the more disposable income they have to spend on these things. I certain international school in Phuket did surprise drug testing a few years ago, and 1/3 of their teachers were positive for meth, cocaine or narcotics. Thats not to even mention alcohol, just drugs. I spoke with one school director who was worried about a teacher with a drug history. When I suggested mandatory drug testing for all teachers he said "no way, we would have to fire half our staff". Personally, I think when working with children, and getting paid 10 times the local wage to do so, you can at least not use illegal drugs...

Seriously how many years can the Phuket story circulate and be so wrong?!

Out of a foreign staff of 120, 8 people were caught for marijuana, nothing else. Now we have a yearly drug test, we don't know when it will be, but everybody is tested. It's in our contract. Personally I have no problem with that, but I'm sure there are one or two who find it irritating.

So to repeat it was not 1/3 of bloody teachers, it was 6% of teachers.

Since then nobody has tested positive.

Edited February 20, 2015 by nicky2012

[IntEdSource]

think-too-mut:

I do not have any first-hand knowledge of schools in Japan, so I cannot comment on their quality, pay or practices. However, you are incorrect in assuming that salaries of 200,000 baht per month are only at the level of principals at the top international schools in Thailand. (Additionally, university lecturers here make far less than teachers in those schools.) My previous mid-tier school's salary scale, which was not high compared to others, started at approximately 55,000 - 60,000 baht per month for a teacher with a bachelor's degree or subject degree and no experience. It went as high as 130,000 baht, and we did have a handful of teachers who were above 100,000. Housing allowances were not provided, but annual flights were following the first two years.

At my current school, the scale begins at approximately 148,000 baht per month for a licensed teacher (which is required) with a bachelor's degree and no experience. However, we very rarely hire such teachers. Most have several years of experience, and with our salary steps, they typically begin at 160,000 - 170,000 per month. Additionally, we do offer a housing allowance that begins at 42,000 for single teachers. In short, our average teacher begins at just over 200,000 per month before taxes. We also provide full health and dental insurance, flights for the teacher and his/her dependents, a personal professional development allowance, annual bonus (equivalent to another month's pay), free tuition for up to two of their children and other minor perks. This is obviously sufficient to attract excellent educators from all over the world.

I have already provided evidence regarding student achievement, which should clearly indicate that these schools are able to provide a high enough quality education to match other superior schools in other countries. However, you specify that the teachers are subpar, even in these top schools.

Teachers who joined my current school this year came from, among others, American International School of Budapest (Hungary), Anglo-American School of Moscow (Russia), Bonn International School (Germany), Inter-Community School Zurich (Switzerland), International School of Kuala Lumpur (Malaysia), International School of Prague (Czech Republic), I-Shou International School (Taiwan), United World College of South East Asia (Singapore), Western Academy of Beijing (China) and Yokohama International School (Japan). You'll note that many of those schools are in the countries that you specified as having superior schools and teachers.

Many of our outgoing staff were hired at these same schools and others of the same caliber. Among our current staff are a co-founder of a global education publishing company, founder of a non-profit organization that helps young girls in Laos receive a free education, a world-regarded EAL expert, and others who operate their own non-profits and businesses alongside their work at the school. Nearly every one of them has ten or more years of international experience, most of it outside Thailand. These are not the profiles of average teachers, nor of individuals who cannot find work in schools elsewhere. The top schools here attract the best teachers like all other top schools around the world.

As mentioned in a previous post, the top three are also run as non-profits, overseen by a parent-elected board. Looking at the boards of governors at Bangkok Patana School, International School Bangkok and NIST International School, it becomes quite clear that the families who send their children to these schools could easily afford to send them to other schools in Asia. They choose to send them to these schools for a reason: the quality.

At this point it seems tenuous to attempt to argue that these are not world-class teachers or world-class schools, unless we simply want to quibble about the connotations of "world-class". If that is the issue, I would simply rephrase it and say top teachers who are on par with those at other top schools outside of Thailand.

bkkgooner:

"Most of us teachers in Thailand just work for our families and do a good job but cheers for tarring us all with the same brush."

I agree entirely with this sentiment. Many of the excellent teachers I've encountered over the years in Thailand, particularly in my last position, have worked their way up from bilingual schools or government schools, have families and are generally very nice people. I suspect that the stigma of being in Thailand drives many to assume that they are only here for the drugs, women or beach, which is unfortunately inaccurate in many cases.

rotary:

You're welcome, and I appreciate the positive comment!

davidst01:

Again, I appreciate the positive comment. I agree with the post written by In Town. Students who plan to attend a Thai university, including for medicine or similar fields, can easily get in even if they attend a top government or bilingual school. It's also relatively accurate to say that cultural conditioning can play a significant role. We hadn't had many graduating classes at my previous school, and though many went to excellent universities in the United States (University of Wisconsin - Madison, Rice University, etc.) and elsewhere (Seoul National University, Monash University, etc.), many others chose to attend Chula, Thammasat and Mahidol. In several of those cases, they encountered difficulty integrating, primarily because of the vast differences in teaching styles (authoritarian and lecture-based at the universities compared to a more progressive Western approach in our school).

Silom:

I agree. ICS provides excellent value for the fees it charges, particularly when compared to other schools in that area. Again, I think it being non-profit plays at least one part in that.

joshstiles:

The purpose was to provide more accurate information about international schools, as I have seen many questions, inaccurate claims and unwarranted criticisms on these boards. You're not obligated to read it...

kingstonkid:

Among the upper mid-tier schools, all of them generally do have sound curricula and teaching practices in place. As I mentioned, my previous school was considered mid-tier, and our students - across the board - scored at or near the same levels at native English speakers in standardized English language tests (SAT 10, SAT, MAPS, etc.), and exceeded them by the time they graduated. On the other hand, I do agree that even among some of the mid-tier schools, the primary goal is money, and in those cases the students are the ones who suffer. I don't believe that's the case among the schools I referenced in my original post, but I admittedly do not have first-hand experience with all of them on the list.

nicky2012:

Thank you for pointing that out. The entire purpose of creating this thread was to clear up inaccuracies, and I'm glad I'm not the only one doing so.

[TravelerEastWest]

What do you think of Prem in Chiang Mai?

A more complex question can an English medium school ever do a first rate job of teaching Thai - to the point when graduating high school they are fluent/native speaker/ Thai school level in reading and writing in Thai?

[Derek M]

I wish we could afford this. We have two children and simply can't spend that much.

Given that the kids are half Thai, I also see great benefit in bilingual schools, as there is more focus on Thai culture and language. How many of the international schools teach Thai reading and writing? Any thoughts on Sarasas?

my understanding on this matter is (and anyone may correct me if I am in error) all students studying in Thailand must pass 4 obliged Thai language exams. Exception from such exams are holders of Thai passports. In short those exams are obliged for all international students but not for Thai nationals at international schools.

I am pretty sure I read this on Chiang Mai international School's website a while back.