CapeThai Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 ฿3m is quite a lot of money for a house plot. I can only think that at that price it's in the mid City area. Where is it? A company ownership is a good plan to follow. Ensuring that you (only) have preferential voting rights is essential. Buying a house or land now will not really help your visa plans for the future. A retirement extension is out until you are 55. Your finances have to be proved and evidence of a true relationship supplied for a marriage extension. I can't see how water, electric bills etc will assist in that respect, especially as it will all be in your g/f name. I'm not sure of the full details but many posts exist here in the visa section, it's well worth the browse. Hopefully someone with some knowledge will post soon but do check everything because not everyone is the expert that they claim to be. You need 3Mill baht worth of glasses my friend. Retirement Visa is 50 years old and the OP wants to buy land 300 thousand baht.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gk10002000 Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 I thought they were monitoring foreigners giving money to the Thai Wife for land purchase. Probably lots of shady marriages I suspect. Personally, the whole idea is very risky. I have considered and I like the idea of buying land, building a place etc.., but there is enough down-side that I won't do that. Maybe I would buy a decent condo or rent a house long term. Niether will take up too much of my money and the costs are reasonably fixed. Good Luck with you venture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mario2008 Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Off topic comment removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivinLOS Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 ฿3m is quite a lot of money for a house plot. I can only think that at that price it's in the mid City area. Where is it? A company ownership is a good plan to follow. Ensuring that you (only) have preferential voting rights is essential. Buying a house or land now will not really help your visa plans for the future. A retirement extension is out until you are 55. Your finances have to be proved and evidence of a true relationship supplied for a marriage extension. I can't see how water, electric bills etc will assist in that respect, especially as it will all be in your g/f name. I'm not sure of the full details but many posts exist here in the visa section, it's well worth the browse. Hopefully someone with some knowledge will post soon but do check everything because not everyone is the expert that they claim to be. It's 300 thousand and 50 is the age for a retirement visa. ...and no chance for a company set up for the purpose of owning land by a foreigner. Still happening all over the country.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prakhonchai nick Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 What 3 million? I read 300,000Yes your right, OOPPS Sorry. ฿300,000 would be about right for land up here in the NE. So would 3 million baht, if its a big plot of land. It's all relative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post greatlistener Posted February 16, 2015 Author Popular Post Share Posted February 16, 2015 Thank you for all the responses and advice but I have been coming to Thailand since 2006 and am well aware of the risks but I have also been in relationships in the UK with girls I have given much more to and ended up after a couple of years splitting up. By nature I am a generous person and prefer to give than receive (with obvious exceptions) but during the 3 years I have been with my current Thai partner we haven't argued she has visited the UK 3 times and we really get on well. The land purchase serves a few purposes and it will not likely be my intention to settle in Issan but it gives my partner some long term security if I ever decide that I don't want to continue the relationship and after 3 years I think she deserves that much (£50 a week over 3 years wouldn't even buy me a dinner date in the UK). It gives me the opportunity to develop the land and for about 600,000 baht (that's six hundred thousand baht) build a decent 2 bed home so when we visit the area we have a home to stay in as opposed to a hotel. My partner has only a grandmother as her parents left her at birth her mother recently tried to contact her when she found out about me (took her 2 years to find out about me and my partner blocked her number then her step sister added her on Line and she also got blocked) so the long term usual burden of parents and siblings is removed and we give her grandmother 3000 baht a month and never has my partner asked for more in fact in 3 years she has maintained thats enough if we give her more she will spend it! the grandmother is 60+ and not in great health and owns nothing so this also gives her some stature in the community as she once owned this land and had to sell it to finance my partner to school (sold for 100,000 baht many years ago). It was my decision to buy the land and have asked about land in the village for 18 months and had to virtually beg my partner to let me buy it because she wants to live in the UK and fears me buying the land will restrict that chance which it won't because eventually we will split our time between Uk and Thailand and if my next 8 year plan goes to shit and we can't buy a 6 million baht home we will stay in Issan and the UK split over the year. She has never worked a bar,massage etc and I am in entertainment so I have seen enough gold diggers to last me 2 lifetimes and this isn't one, her favourite UK shop is Primark. I will keep you posted and put land pictures etc up next week or so and hopefully there will be a stag night to which you will all be invited LOL 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aronp1 Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 You will need to hold a 1year visas for 3 consecutive years to be eligible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeonjake Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 well i for one wish you luck my friend, dont listen to half of what you read on here,, ide bet half dont live here or havent visited that much,, they just like to spread the same old sh,ite thats been spread for years, some are bitter and jelous that they didnt do this, or cant do this good luck im your dream,,, you follow your heart,, 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubonjoe Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 You will need to hold a 1year visas for 3 consecutive years to be eligible. I assume you are writing about getting permanent residency. You have to be on extensions of stay for 3 years. Multiple entry visa stays are not accepted. You also have to be working for at least 3 years with a work permit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bragolatch Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) Cheer! Sounds like you have things well in hand ! I've also been living in Isaan and thinking about applying for residency. They grant 100 per year per eligible countries. I haven't read anything yet that would indicate that buying land helps in any way. But it is nice to have your own place If your intention is to leave her everything that you own in Thailand in case of a break up, then, as somebody has already said, do no invest more then you are willing to loose. There is no perfect protection, we are farang and will be for the rest of our lives if we decide to stay here. Like everything else, it has pros and cons. That said you can protect both your wife and yourself by doing things properly/legally. Getting married before buying is a very good start. Just go to the office and sign the paper. You need a few papers, but it is that simple ! and you can have your party later ! For the land, what I ended up doing is : buying the land in her name and having her lease it to me for 100 years minus one day. Or until I die. That way you own everything that you build and/or grow on top of it. If you die it all goes back to her, if she does it goes to your kid... but you still get to use it until you die or renounce your rights. The best solution for you might or might not be the same. So many variables ! I would suggest you contact Sebastien at http://www.isaanlawyers.com. where you can get real Thai law advice and service in proper, easy to understand English and Thai !!! He is a very nice guy, has been living and practicing in Thailand for years. He has/does live what we are living and has the proper legal training. Most of all, He is a very nice guy and he helped me a lot ! Edited February 16, 2015 by Bragolatch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paz Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 ended up doing is : buying the land in her name and having her lease it to me for 100years minus one day. I don't think that a 100 yrs land lease contract is legal. Probably a 30 yrs is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bragolatch Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Completely legal and approved/stamped by the bank and the land office ! That is the advantage in consulting a competent lawyer, you get the right information, not just some I think or maybe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paz Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) Completely legal and approved/stamped by the bank and the land office ! That is the advantage in consulting a competent lawyer, you get the right information, not just some I think or maybe... It doesn't surprise me that you believe that's legal, or even that was stamped. But, is not legal, everyone would be doing that if it was. so be aware you may be leasing on an unforceable contract if things go sour. What is the maximum lease term available? The maximum lease term available is 30 years, with an option to renew for an additional 30 years http://www.thailand-lawyer.com/land_lease.html Furthermore, on the matter of leases between spouse, have a read here: http://www.doingbusinessthailand.com/blog-thailand/doing-business-in-thailand/thailand-real-estate-doing-business-in-thailand/long-term-lease-agreement-between-spouses.html “Any agreement concluded between husband and wife during marriage by be avoided by either of them at any time during marriage or within one year from the day of dissolution of marriage; provided that the rights of third persons acting in good faith are not affected thereby.” Edited February 16, 2015 by paz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HHTel Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Completely legal and approved/stamped by the bank and the land office ! That is the advantage in consulting a competent lawyer, you get the right information, not just some I think or maybe... You may be talking of a usufruct. That isn't a lease and a much more powerful document which can run until your death. Doesn't matter how competent your lawyer is, the fact is a lease can only be made for 30 years and is not renewable in the lease contract. However, having said that, a private agreement can be made to enter into a further lease of 30 years when the first one expires. and so on and so on. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bragolatch Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 (edited) Ok, my mistake, it is not a lease, I've used the wrong word I am no lawyer ! it is an USUFRUCT, i just dug out the papers. This is exactly why I referred him to the source ! Edited February 16, 2015 by Bragolatch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HHTel Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Lucky guy. A usufruct gives you 'ownership' until your death. The only thing you can't do is sell it. Otherwise you can do what ever you will, open a business, build on it, lease it to a third party, even kick your partner off the land. If you knew just when your death was to be, you could lease it for 30 years to another and that lease has to be honoured even after your death...... just joking but true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bragolatch Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 I actually got that part taken out, This is another advantage of a good, English speaking lawyer, I'm sorry to say that my Thai is not good enough yet. Actually, for legal matters, my English is probably not good enough either as demonstrated above lol. But anyway, we were able to sit down and go through everything in both language and made sure it was exactly what we wanted. That part seemed overkill to me and it made my wife more comfortable that I took it out, I could see it, even if she didn't speak out against it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowfactor10 Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 Thank you for all the responses and advice but I have been coming to Thailand since 2006 and am well aware of the risks but I have also been in relationships in the UK with girls I have given much more to and ended up after a couple of years splitting up. By nature I am a generous person and prefer to give than receive (with obvious exceptions) but during the 3 years I have been with my current Thai partner we haven't argued she has visited the UK 3 times and we really get on well. The land purchase serves a few purposes and it will not likely be my intention to settle in Issan but it gives my partner some long term security if I ever decide that I don't want to continue the relationship and after 3 years I think she deserves that much (£50 a week over 3 years wouldn't even buy me a dinner date in the UK). It gives me the opportunity to develop the land and for about 600,000 baht (that's six hundred thousand baht) build a decent 2 bed home so when we visit the area we have a home to stay in as opposed to a hotel. My partner has only a grandmother as her parents left her at birth her mother recently tried to contact her when she found out about me (took her 2 years to find out about me and my partner blocked her number then her step sister added her on Line and she also got blocked) so the long term usual burden of parents and siblings is removed and we give her grandmother 3000 baht a month and never has my partner asked for more in fact in 3 years she has maintained thats enough if we give her more she will spend it! the grandmother is 60+ and not in great health and owns nothing so this also gives her some stature in the community as she once owned this land and had to sell it to finance my partner to school (sold for 100,000 baht many years ago). It was my decision to buy the land and have asked about land in the village for 18 months and had to virtually beg my partner to let me buy it because she wants to live in the UK and fears me buying the land will restrict that chance which it won't because eventually we will split our time between Uk and Thailand and if my next 8 year plan goes to shit and we can't buy a 6 million baht home we will stay in Issan and the UK split over the year. She has never worked a bar,massage etc and I am in entertainment so I have seen enough gold diggers to last me 2 lifetimes and this isn't one, her favourite UK shop is Primark. I will keep you posted and put land pictures etc up next week or so and hopefully there will be a stag night to which you will all be invited LOL Yes i think we all would like to get invited for your Isarn house warming party. With your full explanation in mind then i would say seems in this case that its your money well spend And as long as you do not see it as an investment but purely as a gift then you can never loose out on it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khunPer Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 To OP, Greatlistener: 300,000 baht is not that big a risk – however, all is relative – but if you plan to build a house for your money on the land, the risk may well be in millions of baht. If you buy in GF’s name you can consider usufruct or superficies servitude (there are several treads in TV-forum about that, with links for further information). The limited company method costs annual fees for accountant and auditor, easily 40,000 baht and up, and may be questioned if the only activity in the company is holding a plot of land. 49 percent foreign ownership only does not give full control of land owned by a company, furthermore proxy votes and/or shareholders may be considered illegal – some Land Offices don’t accept more than 39 percent foreign ownership when transferring a land deed to a company. You can as foreigner own a house, but not the land, and that’s where superficies may be attractive. When you get to the process of building, make sure that all drawings and the building permission carries your name only; also keep all building constructor contracts, money transfers and other bills, that’s your proof of ownership. When getting married make a prenuptial agreement wherein it’s stated, that you own the house as Separation of Property. For your financial security check with a lawyer that usufruct or superficies agreements will still be valid after marriage, as there are some conditions where husband and wife cannot make contracts. Another way to secure your investment, I was told by my lawyer, can be a loan agreement declared on the land deed – and that loan can be the total value of your investment in house and land – which will work like a mortgage and prevent the land from being sold or transferred to a another name, without the loan being paid in full; an experienced lawyer will be able to give you further information. It’s presumed the land deed title is Chanute or Nor Sor 3, lower land titles may not be valid for loans with the land as security (often printed in red text at front of the land deed, together with some other restrictions). Finally, if the land in question is up Isaan in GF’s village, you may not wish to stay there, if something goes wrong between the two of you. Furthermore it may be difficult – or impossible – to sell the house, even if the land is owned by a company. The saying of “never invest more than you can afford to loose” may be very wise, when investing in GF’s/wife’s local area – just mentioned to have in mind. I wish you good luck with you project and future retirement. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mahjongguy Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 To jump back to the original post for a moment: "...just exploring my best bet to secure residency" Nothing that you do in regards to property will in any way effect your ability to obtain annual extensions of stay nor Permanent Residency nor citizenship. None of those three methods of spending your life in Thailand have anything to do with owning or controlling a house or land. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonmarleesco Posted February 16, 2015 Share Posted February 16, 2015 I doubt the 51:49 route will work. The government long ago decided such an arrangement, for property purchase, was an abuse of the foreign shareholding company set-up, so it is now, I believe, 61:39. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louse1953 Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Sounds again like a solid plan. Buy the land in your gf her name...State and sign document at land office that it is her money solely. Then use again your money to construct a house on her land.Building cost for u at least one million BHT. May we have an update from you in about 7 years time about how it has all worked out for you ? and if you still live in that house In case you change you mind u can consider renting such a simular house in Isarn first for 2-3 years.By this time you be a lot wiser then you are now! This is good advice OP - there's no rush for financial commitment - also I believe under Thai divorce law it is better to marry first before any purchase. Under Australian law,if you are receiving an old age pension and married to a younger woman,your pension will decrease by about 3000 baht/week,if you are living in Thailand.There is no need to get married at all,most Thai's don't(legally). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louse1953 Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Cheer! Sounds like you have things well in hand ! I've also been living in Isaan and thinking about applying for residency. They grant 100 per year per eligible countries. I haven't read anything yet that would indicate that buying land helps in any way. But it is nice to have your own place If your intention is to leave her everything that you own in Thailand in case of a break up, then, as somebody has already said, do no invest more then you are willing to loose. There is no perfect protection, we are farang and will be for the rest of our lives if we decide to stay here. Like everything else, it has pros and cons. That said you can protect both your wife and yourself by doing things properly/legally. Getting married before buying is a very good start. Just go to the office and sign the paper. You need a few papers, but it is that simple ! and you can have your party later ! For the land, what I ended up doing is : buying the land in her name and having her lease it to me for 100 years minus one day. Or until I die. That way you own everything that you build and/or grow on top of it. If you die it all goes back to her, if she does it goes to your kid... but you still get to use it until you die or renounce your rights. The best solution for you might or might not be the same. So many variables ! I would suggest you contact Sebastien at http://www.isaanlawyers.com. where you can get real Thai law advice and service in proper, easy to understand English and Thai !!! He is a very nice guy, has been living and practicing in Thailand for years. He has/does live what we are living and has the proper legal training. Most of all, He is a very nice guy and he helped me a lot ! Can't lease for 100 years,30 max.Also can't do a contract with your spouse.I'd get a 2nd opinion on nice guy's advice if i were you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louse1953 Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Completely legal and approved/stamped by the bank and the land office ! That is the advantage in consulting a competent lawyer, you get the right information, not just some I think or maybe... Legal,smegal.Many land offices don't know the law themselves.30 years is the max,does't matter what you have stamped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HHTel Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Oh do read the thread before commenting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubonjoe Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Off topic and unhelpful posts are being removed. From now on they will be removed without notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatlistener Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 (edited) Just off to land registry now checked the land it is about 500m2 which is about £12.00 per m2 I pay more than that for carpet, not to say I ever buy 500m2 of carpet in one go but it was £3500 to do my house last time!. All in all I'm happy to make this purchase for several reasons including those stated previously. I have built many properties in England and whilst I completely understand the techniques, labour, materials, methods etc are completely different I do enjoy the design and final fit out. In truth 3 months a year on holiday gets a bit tiresome in Pattaya and only those who have experienced it will fully understand what I mean. So the thought of a 3 month project for next year excites me. The plot has a frontage of about 12m and obviously then is about 40m deep. The idea is to leave about 8m at the back for patio area, a metre or so either side for a walk round and reduce noise a tiny tiny bit from neighbours. Build the bungalow on what remains leaving about 10m at the front for a garden and a drive. Here's where it gets technical I am aware of the much lighter building products used in Thailand and if I was building this in the UK I would amend the architects plans as the build progressed because what looks nice on paper isn't always practical. So as no internal walls will require footings my plan is to put footings in the outline of the building and pour a slab for the internal walls to sit on. This gives me the freedom to move internal walls windows and doors where I want to. The benefit of little or no planning and building regs in Kabinburi makes this an easier task, obviously there will be a plan but as it starts I want the flexibility to amend it as I go. Constructive comments are welcome as is advice, negativity will be read and duly noted but please don't be to harsh! I will need any contacts for labourers, site foreman, architect, suppliers etc if anybody has any because I will be putting in extras like 1 tank for water waste and 1 for toilet waste ?? Pictures of the land later thanks for reading and thanks for contributing. Edited February 19, 2015 by greatlistener 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatlistener Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 Doesn't look much on paper does it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HooHaa Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 land ownership (spare me the argument) has nothing to do with residency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatlistener Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 As I go home in 2 weeks don't expect much progress for at least 12 months! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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