Trail Braking ..do you do it? Do you understand it?

[seedy]

Two posts removed - If you wish to post about your experience as a rider, feel free to do so.

Other riders will post about their experience if they so choose.

[seedy]

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[ll2]

my experience with trail braking is i love it and like it and adore it.

cannot live without it.

nothing to discuss about my experiences in Thailand with someone that is not local.

Edited February 23, 2015 by ll2

[andreandre]

hang on i am lost here ! are you supposed to brake before the corner and then turn in with no brakes, either coasting or under power .

or are you supposed to keep the brakes on? front only ? rear only? or both ? and after turning in you slowly release the brake and then wind on power ?

preeas exprain !

i have watched G.P. coverage and seems the lord ROSSI keep breaking well into the corner as it seems immediately as he comes of the break he has the power wound on .

help !

Depends a lot on what it is that you are trying to achieve. One thing you should never do on a track is to coast. The bike is least stable under such a circumstance.

In simple terms, trail braking means that you continue to have light pressure on the brakes (usually front) even after the turning point. The reason is because this allows you to carry more speed into the corner. Once your turn is completed, meaning bike is pointed in the direction that you want to go, you then release the brakes and roll on the throttle to exit the corner. This is almost always before the apex of the corner.

However, this is an advanced technique and the main reason is to go faster round the track.

Relative newbies are taught to first of all brake in a straight line and to finish your braking before you turn in. As you turn in, you should feather your throttle (throttle control). The reason is this transfers the weight of the bike onto the rear wheel. As the rear wheel is larger than the front, this increases the contact patch with the ground giving more grip. As with trail braking, once your turn is completed, you start to roll on the throttle to exit the corner.

You can see how trail braking can therefore shave tenth's of seconds of your lap time.

OP is Trail braking..do you do it? Do you understand it?

You said you don't do it, but you also obviously don't understand it either, going by this post of yours ..your ''simple terms'' explanation is totally wrong;

Depends a lot on what it is that you are trying to achieve. One thing you should never do on a track is to coast. The bike is least stable under such a circumstance.

True, but not restricted to track,,road is no different

In simple terms, trail braking means that you continue to have light pressure on the brakes (usually front) even after the turning point. The reason is because this allows you to carry more speed into the corner. Once your turn is completed, meaning bike is pointed in the direction that you want to go, you then release the brakes and roll on the throttle to exit the corner. This is almost always before the apex of the corner.

Wrong..trail braking does not mean 'you continue to have light pressure on"...the term refers to the gradual release of pressure even on a straight after hard braking before a corner,but in this instance [higher entry speed cornering ]....as you lean more and more into the corner,thereby reducing the chance of overcoming the grip ability of the tyre with excessive braking force. This keeps a constant front end load ie the bike is settled which gives optimum cornering performance .True, it does allow you to carry more speed into the corner, but only if the rider has the ability to do such advanced riding.

However, this is an advanced technique and the main reason is to go faster round the track.

It is a very advanced technique and true you can go faster through the corners not only on track but also on roads on your favourite twisties..

Relative newbies are taught to first of all brake in a straight line and to finish your braking before you turn in..As you turn in, you should feather your throttle (throttle control).

Correct about braking in a straight line and finish before turning in ,but ...Huh?? feather a clutch,;Yes.. feather a brake ;Yes...but feather the throttle?? never heard of such Can you please explain this...

The reason is this transfers the weight of the bike onto the rear wheel. As the rear wheel is larger than the front, this increases the contact patch with the ground giving more grip.

Wow....thats just bizarre ... After you have braked prior to the corner to a speed that you are happy with , you turn in with whatever power and in whatever gear you feel will get you through the corner at your desired safe speed.....at as constant a power setting as you can thereby keeping the bike settled....as you get to the apex then accelerate as hard as you feel safe doing....The rear wheel generally is the same size as front,not larger.. only wider= tyre is wider than the front giving a bigger contact patch when straightline accelerating for sure, but leaning in a corner? I don't think that the contact patches would be all that different size..open to correction on this point.

As with trail braking, once your turn is completed, you start to roll on the throttle to exit the corner.

You can see how trail braking can therefore shave tenth's of seconds of your lap time.

EDIT..you also said earlier that bad technique trail braking will result in a highside..not true, will mostly result in lowside......

Edited February 23, 2015 by andreandre

[dave_boo]

I understand trail braking and use it a bit. Not as much or as well as someone who is good at it, but none the less it does get used.

Picked it up when me and my mates were acting stupid. The best way to get an E30 quickly around was to do the exact thing. Feather the clutch and gas in while braking late and letting off. This loaded the front wheels and allowed even sharper steering. Almost a bit of oversteer if you nailed and you ended up pointed straight down the road while still carrying a lot of speed. Quite a bit different than the point and squirt that my Camaro had.

What gets me though is why am I not as confident around a right turn as a left one? Am I positioning my body in a way that is jamming up my right arm (without realising it) and thus making me uncomfortable? Or could there be something else?

[Gweiloman]

hang on i am lost here ! are you supposed to brake before the corner and then turn in with no brakes, either coasting or under power .

or are you supposed to keep the brakes on? front only ? rear only? or both ? and after turning in you slowly release the brake and then wind on power ?

preeas exprain !

i have watched G.P. coverage and seems the lord ROSSI keep breaking well into the corner as it seems immediately as he comes of the break he has the power wound on .

help !

Depends a lot on what it is that you are trying to achieve. One thing you should never do on a track is to coast. The bike is least stable under such a circumstance.

In simple terms, trail braking means that you continue to have light pressure on the brakes (usually front) even after the turning point. The reason is because this allows you to carry more speed into the corner. Once your turn is completed, meaning bike is pointed in the direction that you want to go, you then release the brakes and roll on the throttle to exit the corner. This is almost always before the apex of the corner.

However, this is an advanced technique and the main reason is to go faster round the track.

Relative newbies are taught to first of all brake in a straight line and to finish your braking before you turn in. As you turn in, you should feather your throttle (throttle control). The reason is this transfers the weight of the bike onto the rear wheel. As the rear wheel is larger than the front, this increases the contact patch with the ground giving more grip. As with trail braking, once your turn is completed, you start to roll on the throttle to exit the corner.

You can see how trail braking can therefore shave tenth's of seconds of your lap time.

OP is Trail braking..do you do it? Do you understand it?

You said you don't do it, but you also obviously don't understand it either, going by this post of yours ..your ''simple terms'' explanation is totally wrong;

Depends a lot on what it is that you are trying to achieve. One thing you should never do on a track is to coast. The bike is least stable under such a circumstance.

True, but not restricted to track,,road is no different

In simple terms, trail braking means that you continue to have light pressure on the brakes (usually front) even after the turning point. The reason is because this allows you to carry more speed into the corner. Once your turn is completed, meaning bike is pointed in the direction that you want to go, you then release the brakes and roll on the throttle to exit the corner. This is almost always before the apex of the corner.

Wrong..trail braking does not mean 'you continue to have light pressure on"...the term refers to the gradual release of pressure even on a straight after hard braking before a corner,but in this instance [higher entry speed cornering ]....as you lean more and more into the corner,thereby reducing the chance of overcoming the grip ability of the tyre with excessive braking force. This keeps a constant front end load ie the bike is settled which gives optimum cornering performance .True, it does allow you to carry more speed into the corner, but only if the rider has the ability to do such advanced riding.

However, this is an advanced technique and the main reason is to go faster round the track.

It is a very advanced technique and true you can go faster through the corners not only on track but also on roads on your favourite twisties..

Relative newbies are taught to first of all brake in a straight line and to finish your braking before you turn in..As you turn in, you should feather your throttle (throttle control).

Correct about braking in a straight line and finish before turning in ,but ...Huh?? feather a clutch,;Yes.. feather a brake ;Yes...but feather the throttle?? never heard of such Can you please explain this...

The reason is this transfers the weight of the bike onto the rear wheel. As the rear wheel is larger than the front, this increases the contact patch with the ground giving more grip.

Wow....thats just bizarre ... After you have braked prior to the corner to a speed that you are happy with , you turn in with whatever power and in whatever gear you feel will get you through the corner at your desired safe speed.....at as constant a power setting as you can thereby keeping the bike settled....as you get to the apex then accelerate as hard as you feel safe doing....The rear wheel generally is the same size as front,not larger.. only wider= tyre is wider than the front giving a bigger contact patch when straightline accelerating for sure, but leaning in a corner? I don't think that the contact patches would be all that different size..open to correction on this point.

As with trail braking, once your turn is completed, you start to roll on the throttle to exit the corner.

You can see how trail braking can therefore shave tenth's of seconds of your lap time.

EDIT..you also said earlier that bad technique trail braking will result in a highside..not true, will mostly result in lowside......

[mikebike]

What gets me though is why am I not as confident around a right turn as a left one? Am I positioning my body in a way that is jamming up my right arm (without realising it) and thus making me uncomfortable? Or could there be something else?

Ha! My brothet-from-another-mother back home had the same issue! We eventually determined that his directional bias was a mental block. Plenty of track-time focusing on rights cured the issue eventually, but he really had to work hard before rights came as naturally as lefts...

Regarding trail-braking, for me, its is a basic and necessary track skill and an optional albeit useful road skill... not very effective if you're touring on a raked-out cruiser!

I am surprised that no one has mentioned whether or not trail-braking is a taught and/or endorsed skill in the UK official motorbike training manual... maybe there is a former UK trainer around to enlighten us. LOL!

[andreandre]

What gets me though is why am I not as confident around a right turn as a left one? Am I positioning my body in a way that is jamming up my right arm (without realising it) and thus making me uncomfortable? Or could there be something else?

Ha! My brothet-from-another-mother back home had the same issue! We eventually determined that his directional bias was a mental block. Plenty of track-time focusing on rights cured the issue eventually, but he really had to work hard before rights came as naturally as lefts...

Regarding trail-braking, for me, its is a basic and necessary track skill and an optional albeit useful road skill... not very effective if you're touring on a raked-out cruiser!

I am surprised that no one has mentioned whether or not trail-braking is a taught and/or endorsed skill in the UK official motorbike training manual... maybe there is a former UK trainer around to enlighten us. LOL!

Was about to reply to dave-boo myself on this point..it often indeed is a mental block.....Way back when i learning basics.[ IMO,.you should never stop learning] i had a much easier time fast cornering to the left than to the right...my theory was that because i always rode on left side drive countries and consequently left turns are more tight, you may say, that the brain/rider input accepts this easier and you automatically have more confidence.

Every opportunity i had on twisties and/or track days i really focused on right hand corners, over and over really pushing myself and practicing and practicing....over a period of time, i suddenly found myself more comfortable in right handers than the previously favoured left handers...this ended up being very beneficial because i then started pushing my comfort zone even more on the lefties to bring a balance again...now it make no difference at all..left or right..all great fun...IMO cornering at your limits is what bike riding is mainly about....

Try it dave..its just another case of practice,practice until you get it right.

[ll2]

guys no need to discuss anything.

anyway thread will be closed soon and it looks like it is forbidden to discuss things here anymore.

so if an OP gets the answer, we close that thread.

a thread means a medium to discuss. A forum is also not an encyclopedia so one cannot expect 100 percent accurate answers. Forums are for discussion things not only a place you look for answers or ask questions.

yeah, sad, forum goes downward!

[andreandre]

guys no need to discuss anything.

anyway thread will be closed soon and it looks like it is forbidden to discuss things here anymore.

so if an OP gets the answer, we close that thread.

a thread means a medium to discuss. A forum is also not an encyclopedia so one cannot expect 100 percent accurate answers. Forums are for discussion things not only a place you look for answers or ask questions.

yeah, sad, forum goes downward!

No need to stop discussing things mate....[though i do agree about too frequent thread closures, at times]..there is a lot can be learn here... a forum is for sure NOT an encyclopedia, and if people are giving their opinion, it is often not accurate,but simply an opinion that can be debated and/or discussed but when people are stating what they consider to be factual, the onus is on them to get it right....so others less informed don't take in the wrong info, thinking that it is in fact, correct.

[andreandre]

hang on i am lost here ! are you supposed to brake before the corner and then turn in with no brakes, either coasting or under power .

or are you supposed to keep the brakes on? front only ? rear only? or both ? and after turning in you slowly release the brake and then wind on power ?

preeas exprain !

i have watched G.P. coverage and seems the lord ROSSI keep breaking well into the corner as it seems immediately as he comes of the break he has the power wound on .

help !

Depends a lot on what it is that you are trying to achieve. One thing you should never do on a track is to coast. The bike is least stable under such a circumstance.

In simple terms, trail braking means that you continue to have light pressure on the brakes (usually front) even after the turning point. The reason is because this allows you to carry more speed into the corner. Once your turn is completed, meaning bike is pointed in the direction that you want to go, you then release the brakes and roll on the throttle to exit the corner. This is almost always before the apex of the corner.

However, this is an advanced technique and the main reason is to go faster round the track.

Relative newbies are taught to first of all brake in a straight line and to finish your braking before you turn in. As you turn in, you should feather your throttle (throttle control). The reason is this transfers the weight of the bike onto the rear wheel. As the rear wheel is larger than the front, this increases the contact patch with the ground giving more grip. As with trail braking, once your turn is completed, you start to roll on the throttle to exit the corner.

You can see how trail braking can therefore shave tenth's of seconds of your lap time.

OP is Trail braking..do you do it? Do you understand it?

You said you don't do it, but you also obviously don't understand it either, going by this post of yours ..your ''simple terms'' explanation is totally wrong;

Depends a lot on what it is that you are trying to achieve. One thing you should never do on a track is to coast. The bike is least stable under such a circumstance.

True, but not restricted to track,,road is no different

In simple terms, trail braking means that you continue to have light pressure on the brakes (usually front) even after the turning point. The reason is because this allows you to carry more speed into the corner. Once your turn is completed, meaning bike is pointed in the direction that you want to go, you then release the brakes and roll on the throttle to exit the corner. This is almost always before the apex of the corner.

Wrong..trail braking does not mean 'you continue to have light pressure on"...the term refers to the gradual release of pressure even on a straight after hard braking before a corner,but in this instance [higher entry speed cornering ]....as you lean more and more into the corner,thereby reducing the chance of overcoming the grip ability of the tyre with excessive braking force. This keeps a constant front end load ie the bike is settled which gives optimum cornering performance .True, it does allow you to carry more speed into the corner, but only if the rider has the ability to do such advanced riding.

However, this is an advanced technique and the main reason is to go faster round the track.

It is a very advanced technique and true you can go faster through the corners not only on track but also on roads on your favourite twisties..

Relative newbies are taught to first of all brake in a straight line and to finish your braking before you turn in..As you turn in, you should feather your throttle (throttle control).

Correct about braking in a straight line and finish before turning in ,but ...Huh?? feather a clutch,;Yes.. feather a brake ;Yes...but feather the throttle?? never heard of such Can you please explain this...

The reason is this transfers the weight of the bike onto the rear wheel. As the rear wheel is larger than the front, this increases the contact patch with the ground giving more grip.

Wow....thats just bizarre ... After you have braked prior to the corner to a speed that you are happy with , you turn in with whatever power and in whatever gear you feel will get you through the corner at your desired safe speed.....at as constant a power setting as you can thereby keeping the bike settled....as you get to the apex then accelerate as hard as you feel safe doing....The rear wheel generally is the same size as front,not larger.. only wider= tyre is wider than the front giving a bigger contact patch when straightline accelerating for sure, but leaning in a corner? I don't think that the contact patches would be all that different size..open to correction on this point.

As with trail braking, once your turn is completed, you start to roll on the throttle to exit the corner.

You can see how trail braking can therefore shave tenth's of seconds of your lap time.

EDIT..you also said earlier that bad technique trail braking will result in a highside..not true, will mostly result in lowside......

This is a case in point LL2 ...a rider with very little riding experience has had quite a rave about a subject that he doesn't use and shows he doesn't understand the smallest amount....I politely and no name calling pointed out the many errors in what he posted as fact......others reading this thread may mistake him as someone who knows what he is talking about...he proves once again that he does not know even the theory of Trail Braking, let alone have the competence and confidence to do it....I'll use gweilos words as she used to another member, as it is most apt here..Also a case of the old expression;... "it takes a man to appologise when shown to be wrong"..so naturally i don't expect one from Gweilopor..

Quote from gweiloman; that applies to him the same " Fact is that you're not as good a rider as you think you are. Accept it. Live with it. Get over it."

3 years on bikes is not ''experienced" mate..

[Gweiloman]

Depends a lot on what it is that you are trying to achieve. One thing you should never do on a track is to coast. The bike is least stable under such a circumstance.

In simple terms, trail braking means that you continue to have light pressure on the brakes (usually front) even after the turning point. The reason is because this allows you to carry more speed into the corner. Once your turn is completed, meaning bike is pointed in the direction that you want to go, you then release the brakes and roll on the throttle to exit the corner. This is almost always before the apex of the corner.

However, this is an advanced technique and the main reason is to go faster round the track.

Relative newbies are taught to first of all brake in a straight line and to finish your braking before you turn in. As you turn in, you should feather your throttle (throttle control). The reason is this transfers the weight of the bike onto the rear wheel. As the rear wheel is larger than the front, this increases the contact patch with the ground giving more grip. As with trail braking, once your turn is completed, you start to roll on the throttle to exit the corner.

You can see how trail braking can therefore shave tenth's of seconds of your lap time.

OP is Trail braking..do you do it? Do you understand it?

You said you don't do it, but you also obviously don't understand it either, going by this post of yours ..your ''simple terms'' explanation is totally wrong;

Depends a lot on what it is that you are trying to achieve. One thing you should never do on a track is to coast. The bike is least stable under such a circumstance.

True, but not restricted to track,,road is no different

In simple terms, trail braking means that you continue to have light pressure on the brakes (usually front) even after the turning point. The reason is because this allows you to carry more speed into the corner. Once your turn is completed, meaning bike is pointed in the direction that you want to go, you then release the brakes and roll on the throttle to exit the corner. This is almost always before the apex of the corner.

Wrong..trail braking does not mean 'you continue to have light pressure on"...the term refers to the gradual release of pressure even on a straight after hard braking before a corner,but in this instance [higher entry speed cornering ]....as you lean more and more into the corner,thereby reducing the chance of overcoming the grip ability of the tyre with excessive braking force. This keeps a constant front end load ie the bike is settled which gives optimum cornering performance .True, it does allow you to carry more speed into the corner, but only if the rider has the ability to do such advanced riding.

However, this is an advanced technique and the main reason is to go faster round the track.

It is a very advanced technique and true you can go faster through the corners not only on track but also on roads on your favourite twisties..

Relative newbies are taught to first of all brake in a straight line and to finish your braking before you turn in..As you turn in, you should feather your throttle (throttle control).

Correct about braking in a straight line and finish before turning in ,but ...Huh?? feather a clutch,;Yes.. feather a brake ;Yes...but feather the throttle?? never heard of such Can you please explain this...

The reason is this transfers the weight of the bike onto the rear wheel. As the rear wheel is larger than the front, this increases the contact patch with the ground giving more grip.

Wow....thats just bizarre ... After you have braked prior to the corner to a speed that you are happy with , you turn in with whatever power and in whatever gear you feel will get you through the corner at your desired safe speed.....at as constant a power setting as you can thereby keeping the bike settled....as you get to the apex then accelerate as hard as you feel safe doing....The rear wheel generally is the same size as front,not larger.. only wider= tyre is wider than the front giving a bigger contact patch when straightline accelerating for sure, but leaning in a corner? I don't think that the contact patches would be all that different size..open to correction on this point.

As with trail braking, once your turn is completed, you start to roll on the throttle to exit the corner.

You can see how trail braking can therefore shave tenth's of seconds of your lap time.

EDIT..you also said earlier that bad technique trail braking will result in a highside..not true, will mostly result in lowside......

This is a case in point LL2 ...a rider with very little riding experience has had quite a rave about a subject that he doesn't use and shows he doesn't understand the smallest amount....I politely and no name calling pointed out the many errors in what he posted as fact......others reading this thread may mistake him as someone who knows what he is talking about...he proves once again that he does not know even the theory of Trail Braking, let alone have the competence and confidence to do it....I'll use gweilos words as she used to another member, as it is most apt here..Also a case of the old expression;... "it takes a man to appologise when shown to be wrong"..so naturally i don't expect one from Gweilopor..

Quote from gweiloman; that applies to him the same " Fact is that you're not as good a rider as you think you are. Accept it. Live with it. Get over it."

3 years on bikes is not ''experienced" mate..

[andreandre]

^^^^^ ^^^^^

Another quote of yours. on another thread....practice what you preach mate. ".Ending making your post with rolling on the floor laughing emoticon - how cute."

Rather childish, but you can resort to childishness when you have been shown to be severely lacking...

[Gweiloman]

^^^^^ ^^^^^

Another quote of yours. on another thread....practice what you preach mate. ".Ending making your post with rolling on the floor laughing emoticon - how cute."

Rather childish, but you can resort to childishness when you have been shown to be severely lacking...

Thanks for being my no. 1 fanboy andre. It's nice to know that all my posts are so eagerly being awaited and read by such a distinguished gentleman as yourself. I must really be something special, for someone as accomplished as you (riding for over 50 years, over a miilion miles and only a couple of misses, no hits, raced with the likes of Agostini etc) to pour over my words in the hope of picking out an inaccuracy.

By the way, why do you "like" my posts to subsequently "unlike" them? Some sort of involuntary motor reflex action ailment?

[ll2]

Depends a lot on what it is that you are trying to achieve. One thing you should never do on a track is to coast. The bike is least stable under such a circumstance.

In simple terms, trail braking means that you continue to have light pressure on the brakes (usually front) even after the turning point. The reason is because this allows you to carry more speed into the corner. Once your turn is completed, meaning bike is pointed in the direction that you want to go, you then release the brakes and roll on the throttle to exit the corner. This is almost always before the apex of the corner.

However, this is an advanced technique and the main reason is to go faster round the track.

Relative newbies are taught to first of all brake in a straight line and to finish your braking before you turn in. As you turn in, you should feather your throttle (throttle control). The reason is this transfers the weight of the bike onto the rear wheel. As the rear wheel is larger than the front, this increases the contact patch with the ground giving more grip. As with trail braking, once your turn is completed, you start to roll on the throttle to exit the corner.

You can see how trail braking can therefore shave tenth's of seconds of your lap time.

OP is Trail braking..do you do it? Do you understand it?

You said you don't do it, but you also obviously don't understand it either, going by this post of yours ..your ''simple terms'' explanation is totally wrong;

Depends a lot on what it is that you are trying to achieve. One thing you should never do on a track is to coast. The bike is least stable under such a circumstance.

True, but not restricted to track,,road is no different

In simple terms, trail braking means that you continue to have light pressure on the brakes (usually front) even after the turning point. The reason is because this allows you to carry more speed into the corner. Once your turn is completed, meaning bike is pointed in the direction that you want to go, you then release the brakes and roll on the throttle to exit the corner. This is almost always before the apex of the corner.

Wrong..trail braking does not mean 'you continue to have light pressure on"...the term refers to the gradual release of pressure even on a straight after hard braking before a corner,but in this instance [higher entry speed cornering ]....as you lean more and more into the corner,thereby reducing the chance of overcoming the grip ability of the tyre with excessive braking force. This keeps a constant front end load ie the bike is settled which gives optimum cornering performance .True, it does allow you to carry more speed into the corner, but only if the rider has the ability to do such advanced riding.

However, this is an advanced technique and the main reason is to go faster round the track.

It is a very advanced technique and true you can go faster through the corners not only on track but also on roads on your favourite twisties..

Relative newbies are taught to first of all brake in a straight line and to finish your braking before you turn in..As you turn in, you should feather your throttle (throttle control).

Correct about braking in a straight line and finish before turning in ,but ...Huh?? feather a clutch,;Yes.. feather a brake ;Yes...but feather the throttle?? never heard of such Can you please explain this...

The reason is this transfers the weight of the bike onto the rear wheel. As the rear wheel is larger than the front, this increases the contact patch with the ground giving more grip.

Wow....thats just bizarre ... After you have braked prior to the corner to a speed that you are happy with , you turn in with whatever power and in whatever gear you feel will get you through the corner at your desired safe speed.....at as constant a power setting as you can thereby keeping the bike settled....as you get to the apex then accelerate as hard as you feel safe doing....The rear wheel generally is the same size as front,not larger.. only wider= tyre is wider than the front giving a bigger contact patch when straightline accelerating for sure, but leaning in a corner? I don't think that the contact patches would be all that different size..open to correction on this point.

As with trail braking, once your turn is completed, you start to roll on the throttle to exit the corner.

You can see how trail braking can therefore shave tenth's of seconds of your lap time.

EDIT..you also said earlier that bad technique trail braking will result in a highside..not true, will mostly result in lowside......

This is a case in point LL2 ...a rider with very little riding experience has had quite a rave about a subject that he doesn't use and shows he doesn't understand the smallest amount....I politely and no name calling pointed out the many errors in what he posted as fact......others reading this thread may mistake him as someone who knows what he is talking about...he proves once again that he does not know even the theory of Trail Braking, let alone have the competence and confidence to do it....I'll use gweilos words as she used to another member, as it is most apt here..Also a case of the old expression;... "it takes a man to appologise when shown to be wrong"..so naturally i don't expect one from Gweilopor..

Quote from gweiloman; that applies to him the same " Fact is that you're not as good a rider as you think you are. Accept it. Live with it. Get over it."

3 years on bikes is not ''experienced" mate..

you talking to me again mister?

i apologize for being in this world but that was not my choice, sorry

Edited February 24, 2015 by ll2

[mikebike]

The reason so many interesting topics are "CLOSED" is that some peeps appear to be unwilling to just let things go. Can you not just agree to disagree and move on? Getting the last word on the these here inter webs does not bestow any awards...

[Gweiloman]

The reason so many interesting topics are "CLOSED" is that some peeps appear to be unwilling to just let things go. Can you not just agree to disagree and move on? Getting the last word on the these here inter webs does not bestow any awards...

More like some members are so determined to engage in dick waving competitions because they can't ride (or don't have a bike to ride)

[seedy]

Agree with Post #54

CLOSED