Hydration in Thailand

[h90]

Its not that rare. The consumption of excessive water causes dilution of sodium levels.

Sodium is there to balance the fluid around your cells. If there is an imbalance then that fluid can pass from your blood into the cells causing swelling. Obviously if this occurs within the brain it can lead to big trouble.

Listen to your body, drink when you're thirsty

That is the general consensus now. Don't drink x pints of water a day, drink when you are thirsty. Having said that, temperatures and humidity in our parts of the world can be harsh and I do drink before going out for a long run or ride (water that is).

But I thing there is a huge margin of error that won't cause any immediate problem. Without sport I guess between 0.5 (OK kidney stones) and 10 liter (many proofed it with beer) per day seems to be no problem. Kidney is well balancing it if healthy.

Some people don't feel thirsty very well (and less when stressed), but with just a minimum of common sense it is doable.....And I think the bigger problem is when in the office and you forget to drink something.

So I can't see any real life problem

You'd be surprised. I have at least a case a week of somebody being completely dehydrated (I work in a hotel), people just don;t drink enough.

Really?? Dehydrated so they need help???

That surprises me....

[StreetCowboy]

...

...

But I thing there is a huge margin of error that won't cause any immediate problem. Without sport I guess between 0.5 (OK kidney stones) and 10 liter (many proofed it with beer) per day seems to be no problem. Kidney is well balancing it if healthy.

Some people don't feel thirsty very well (and less when stressed), but with just a minimum of common sense it is doable.....And I think the bigger problem is when in the office and you forget to drink something.

So I can't see any real life problem

You'd be surprised. I have at least a case a week of somebody being completely dehydrated (I work in a hotel), people just don;t drink enough.

Really?? Dehydrated so they need help???

That surprises me....

Dehydration is a real risk - excess hydration not so, for normal people.

If one is not used to the heat, perhaps not as hale and hearty as the rest of us, and if one overdoes it on holiday - and perhaps suffers a bit from unfamiliarity with the food and the water - I can see that people in hotels might see a lot of cases of dehydration.

I called my ride off short today, as I was not feeling 100%, but if I had proceeded as planned, I can imagine I may have felt quite poorly and struggled in the heat of the mid-day sun, with no-one for company but mad dogs and Englishmen.

SC

[Chonburiram]

I do about 70 km every 2 - 3 days on my road bike, flat stage, about 2h.

Leave house 2h before sunset, after drinking 1.5 l water (in 2h) incl. 1 cup of black tea + cake, riding east, sun in the back, no water, nonstop, no pee break.

Arrive home before dusk 1.5-2kg lighter than my starting weight, refill with water and fruit. During the ride, too concentrated to feel thirsty, fiddling with a water bottle? Too much distraction.

[hanno]

You'd be surprised. I have at least a case a week of somebody being completely dehydrated (I work in a hotel), people just don;t drink enough.

Really?? Dehydrated so they need help???

That surprises me....

A lot of our guests are at the end of a 2-3 week trip through SE Asia and they have not been drinking enough the entire time. Often, they are elderly and out of shape. And walking through the ruins (I live in Siem Reap) can be an extremely hot affair.

[h90]

You'd be surprised. I have at least a case a week of somebody being completely dehydrated (I work in a hotel), people just don;t drink enough.

Really?? Dehydrated so they need help???

That surprises me....

A lot of our guests are at the end of a 2-3 week trip through SE Asia and they have not been drinking enough the entire time. Often, they are elderly and out of shape. And walking through the ruins (I live in Siem Reap) can be an extremely hot affair.

Interesting.....I wouldn't have thought so....

[SpokaneAl]

You'd be surprised. I have at least a case a week of somebody being completely dehydrated (I work in a hotel), people just don;t drink enough.

Really?? Dehydrated so they need help???

That surprises me....

A lot of our guests are at the end of a 2-3 week trip through SE Asia and they have not been drinking enough the entire time. Often, they are elderly and out of shape. And walking through the ruins (I live in Siem Reap) can be an extremely hot affair.

I come from a very dry climate and know that humidity makes a big difference, and many are not ready for that. The body's tools for cooling are completely out a whack when experiencing an immediate transition from dry heat to humidity.

In dry heat the body cools through evaporation, in high humid climates the sweat does not evaporate. Not being aware of this can be dangerous.

And especially for us older folks, you gotta be careful and aware - something that is often missing when one heads out on an action packed vacation.

Edited March 2, 2015 by SpokaneAl

[h90]

You'd be surprised. I have at least a case a week of somebody being completely dehydrated (I work in a hotel), people just don;t drink enough.

Really?? Dehydrated so they need help???

That surprises me....

A lot of our guests are at the end of a 2-3 week trip through SE Asia and they have not been drinking enough the entire time. Often, they are elderly and out of shape. And walking through the ruins (I live in Siem Reap) can be an extremely hot affair.

I come from a very dry climate and know that humidity makes a big difference, and many are not ready for that. The body's tools for cooling are completely out a whack when experiencing an immediate transition from dry heat to humidity.

In dry heat the body cools through evaporation, in high humid climates the sweat does not evaporate. Not being aware of this can be dangerous.

And especially for us older folks, you gotta be careful and aware - something that is often missing when one heads out on an action packed vacation.

Yes and I think also forget to drink because being excited.... I can understand that.

[chiangmaiexpat]

I come from a very dry climate and know that humidity makes a big difference, and many are not ready for that. The body's tools for cooling are completely out a whack when experiencing an immediate transition from dry heat to humidity.

In dry heat the body cools through evaporation, in high humid climates the sweat does not evaporate. Not being aware of this can be dangerous.

And especially for us older folks, you gotta be careful and aware - something that is often missing when one heads out on an action packed vacation.

Probably the most relevant comment so far.

There is a day-and-night difference between hard cycling on a dry winter day and hard cycling on a humid day in the rainy season. Hydration needs can easily increase by 100% or more.

Cheers, CM-Expat

[Puwa]

I wonder if another difference between MTB and road hydration is that average road speeds are higher, so the rider would experience better airflow and wind cooling, and therefore lose fluid at a slower rate.

[h90]

I wonder if another difference between MTB and road hydration is that average road speeds are higher, so the rider would experience better airflow and wind cooling, and therefore lose fluid at a slower rate.

As well road in the full sun, vs MTB in the forest with higher moisture. My uneducated guess MTB is harder on fluid per hour.

[moonoi]

Being that I do both, I find I drink a tiny bit less on the MTB than the road bike, and I put that down to be under the cover of trees, so the ambient temp is slightly cooler. But it's not really much different, I find the major difference is how much effort you put in, if I'm putting the same effort in on the MTB , as the road bike, in the same conditions, I drink a similar amount.

Edited March 4, 2015 by moonoi

[chiangmaiexpat]

Of course, it always depends on your riding style, but generally MTB riding is more intense and exhausting. You have to move around the bike all the time and the pattern is more like interval training with full throttle periods close to or above the lactate threshold alternating with low intensity periods. On a road bike, the terrain does not dictate the intensity as much as on an MTB and therefore, unless you are pushing yourself, you generate power in a more even and more controlled way. I am not sure how this translates to hydration needs, because there are other factors, such as exposure to heat.

Cheers, CM-Expat

[villagefarang]

Subjectively I feel cooler on the road bike because of the speed difference. While I am only able to average in the high 20s on the road bike on rolling hills, the MTB is low 20s with little or no breeze much of the time.

When my climbing speed drops to single digits, the exertion, heat and lack of breeze makes me feel like I am sweating more on the MTB. Of course on the other side of the hill that sweat creates a wonderful cooling sensation as speed increases and effort is reduced.

Objectively my water intake really doesn’t vary that much but it does feel different.

[SpokaneAl]

I wonder if another difference between MTB and road hydration is that average road speeds are higher, so the rider would experience better airflow and wind cooling, and therefore lose fluid at a slower rate.

As well road in the full sun, vs MTB in the forest with higher moisture. My uneducated guess MTB is harder on fluid per hour.

I think that it is more a matter of the ride purpose, effort and intensity vs. does road vs MTB generate more sweat.

I train for triathlons and as a result have very intense bike efforts on the road that leaves me drenched with my tongue hanging out on even cool northwest USA days. I do the same when running on the roads.

Then when I head for the trails the effort is much less intense and more easier going.

I think that each of us should perform a sweat test (procedures can be easily found on the Internet). Then we will have a baseline sweat rate in which to work from.

As the late running philosopher George Sheehan used to say, "Each of us is an experiment of one."

[h90]

For me I need around 1 large bottle (750ml) per hour. I mix this with electrolyte from High5, SIS or Gu. They're dry tabs that you can just carry in your jersey pocket and add to your water when you refill. It's a bit more expensive than buying stuff from 7/11 or familymart, but I find it far more effective, and no longer suffer from cramps during long/hot days in the saddle.

Hydration packs are good (I have a Camelback one that holds 3L for my MTB), but I find they are uncomfortable on a road bike and you sweat even more due to the lack of airflow over your back.

This is the stuff I use, I would say though that Chocolate milk is just a good recovery drink after a ride as any dedicated recovery drink, so won't be buying any more once I've used this bottle up:

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1424424264.374471.jpg

are these electrolytes available in Thailand?

Where?

That sounds like a nice solution to refill the bottles with water from the shop + a tap from this electrolytes

I normally mail order mine from Wiggle, Evans or Chain Reaction. Cheaper than buying locally even with delivery charges. I've tried the local electrolytes, they aren't the same the concentrations are different.

Just received my package from Chain Reaction! Hassle free, very easy to order and get it.

Thanks for the idea!!

I own you a rehydration beer

Edited March 11, 2015 by h90

[pistachios]

Beginner cyclist here.

My main issue is not hydration since I bought a second bottle (one was not enough for my 60-90 minutes sessions) but the heat.

I can only start riding at about 5pm when the temperature start to drop and I stop before it's too dark. Even then when I finish riding I sometimes feel that I'm totally overheated and close to pass out, I need a long cold shower to make me feel better.

I see on strava many riders who start riding at 5 or 6am. Taking account breakfast and the time to wake up the brain, I wonder how those people do that and at what time they go to bed?

Even crazier, I see many local riders with long pants, long sleeves and even a hood/mask? It makes me sweat just at looking at the picture and imagining the intense heat riding equipped like that. Is this some kind of touareg trick to fight the heat or they are scared to get suntanned?

[hanno]

I am a runner, not a biker. Got a 50K run tomorrow so it will be out of bed at 2:30 am......

It is not just to beat the heat but also to beat the traffic.

People covered from head to toe is more to prevent sun reaching the pristine skin. Personally, I couldn't care less and run in shorts and vest.

If you are overheating, you may be pushing too hard. You cannot rode/run at the same intensity as you would in 18-degree weather. Take a notch out.

[h90]

Beginner cyclist here.

My main issue is not hydration since I bought a second bottle (one was not enough for my 60-90 minutes sessions) but the heat.

I can only start riding at about 5pm when the temperature start to drop and I stop before it's too dark. Even then when I finish riding I sometimes feel that I'm totally overheated and close to pass out, I need a long cold shower to make me feel better.

I see on strava many riders who start riding at 5 or 6am. Taking account breakfast and the time to wake up the brain, I wonder how those people do that and at what time they go to bed?

Even crazier, I see many local riders with long pants, long sleeves and even a hood/mask? It makes me sweat just at looking at the picture and imagining the intense heat riding equipped like that. Is this some kind of touareg trick to fight the heat or they are scared to get suntanned?

I think for the clothes...If you say bike 3-4 hours the sun will burn a lot.......If done regularly Thais get black......Really complete black black....

When I stay with my wife on the weekend house we go sleeping early and I wake up before 5AM and I either don't eat breakfast or I do it first thing....like 3 fried eggs. My body can process them fast. Eat at 5, ready at 6-7 AM.

I think you also get used to the heat.....on the street bike.

Edited March 13, 2015 by h90

[pistachios]

I am a runner, not a biker. Got a 50K run tomorrow so it will be out of bed at 2:30 am......

It is not just to beat the heat but also to beat the traffic.

People covered from head to toe is more to prevent sun reaching the pristine skin. Personally, I couldn't care less and run in shorts and vest.

If you are overheating, you may be pushing too hard. You cannot rode/run at the same intensity as you would in 18-degree weather. Take a notch out.

You may be right about me pushing too hard. I ride in the south of Phuket, there are short hills but they can be very steep (10/20%). I'm probably not fit enough to tackle them as they leave me completely drained. But I also want to get better and manage bigger climbs like Big Buddha or Kata View Point.

I also sometimes try to follow some local riders when riding around the lake at 32+km/h for a couple laps. I have to recover for 15 minutes riding at snail pace after that while they continue speeding through without shedding a drop of sweat

I've logged about 700km since I bought my bike. Maybe too early for higher intensity work?

[MaeJoMTB]

I am a runner, not a biker. Got a 50K run tomorrow so it will be out of bed at 2:30 am......

It is not just to beat the heat but also to beat the traffic.

People covered from head to toe is more to prevent sun reaching the pristine skin. Personally, I couldn't care less and run in shorts and vest.

If you are overheating, you may be pushing too hard. You cannot rode/run at the same intensity as you would in 18-degree weather. Take a notch out.

You may be right about me pushing too hard. I ride in the south of Phuket, there are short hills but they can be very steep (10/20%). I'm probably not fit enough to tackle them as they leave me completely drained. But I also want to get better and manage bigger climbs like Big Buddha or Kata View Point.

I also sometimes try to follow some local riders when riding around the lake at 32+km/h for a couple laps. I have to recover for 15 minutes riding at snail pace after that while they continue speeding through without shedding a drop of sweat

I've logged about 700km since I bought my bike. Maybe too early for higher intensity work?

On the flat, 30-35k/h is easy, I'm 60 and have no trouble maintaining that speed.

700Km isn't all that far, I do 45Km every day.

You just need a few more months cycling.

[hanno]

I am a runner, not a biker. Got a 50K run tomorrow so it will be out of bed at 2:30 am......

It is not just to beat the heat but also to beat the traffic.

People covered from head to toe is more to prevent sun reaching the pristine skin. Personally, I couldn't care less and run in shorts and vest.

If you are overheating, you may be pushing too hard. You cannot rode/run at the same intensity as you would in 18-degree weather. Take a notch out.

You may be right about me pushing too hard. I ride in the south of Phuket, there are short hills but they can be very steep (10/20%). I'm probably not fit enough to tackle them as they leave me completely drained. But I also want to get better and manage bigger climbs like Big Buddha or Kata View Point.

I also sometimes try to follow some local riders when riding around the lake at 32+km/h for a couple laps. I have to recover for 15 minutes riding at snail pace after that while they continue speeding through without shedding a drop of sweat

I've logged about 700km since I bought my bike. Maybe too early for higher intensity work?

Again, I speak from a runner's perspective but the principle is the same: I have coached many people (hobby, not professionally) and inevitably the folks that pushed too hard were the first ones that dropped out or ended up with injury. Look at the Kenyan runners, they do a lot of their training at a slow (for them) pace. Ease off, it is not just fitness but your body needs to adapt to the new stresses as well.

[CNXBKKMAN]

I am a runner, not a biker. Got a 50K run tomorrow so it will be out of bed at 2:30 am......

It is not just to beat the heat but also to beat the traffic.

People covered from head to toe is more to prevent sun reaching the pristine skin. Personally, I couldn't care less and run in shorts and vest.

If you are overheating, you may be pushing too hard. You cannot rode/run at the same intensity as you would in 18-degree weather. Take a notch out.

You may be right about me pushing too hard. I ride in the south of Phuket, there are short hills but they can be very steep (10/20%). I'm probably not fit enough to tackle them as they leave me completely drained. But I also want to get better and manage bigger climbs like Big Buddha or Kata View Point.

I also sometimes try to follow some local riders when riding around the lake at 32+km/h for a couple laps. I have to recover for 15 minutes riding at snail pace after that while they continue speeding through without shedding a drop of sweat

I've logged about 700km since I bought my bike. Maybe too early for higher intensity work?

What kind of bike do you have? Do you have the right gears for the steep hills? They will be murder if you don't. If it's a racing bike does it have a 34 tooth chainring on the chainset and a 32 on the back cassette? A triple chainset can make the hills easier. Are you spinning the gears ie pedaling faster on a lower gear rather than pedaling slow grinding out some huge gear? Aim for 90 pedal revolutions per minute and get comfortable with that. If you are putting the effort in on the bike which it sounds like you are make sure you are eating enough, eat lots. What you eat today is power for tomorrow. High carbs, potatoes, rice, pasta and fruits like bananas. Drinks lots too. If you don't eat and drink enough everything becomes too hard.

[h90]

I am a runner, not a biker. Got a 50K run tomorrow so it will be out of bed at 2:30 am......

It is not just to beat the heat but also to beat the traffic.

People covered from head to toe is more to prevent sun reaching the pristine skin. Personally, I couldn't care less and run in shorts and vest.

If you are overheating, you may be pushing too hard. You cannot rode/run at the same intensity as you would in 18-degree weather. Take a notch out.

You may be right about me pushing too hard. I ride in the south of Phuket, there are short hills but they can be very steep (10/20%). I'm probably not fit enough to tackle them as they leave me completely drained. But I also want to get better and manage bigger climbs like Big Buddha or Kata View Point.

I also sometimes try to follow some local riders when riding around the lake at 32+km/h for a couple laps. I have to recover for 15 minutes riding at snail pace after that while they continue speeding through without shedding a drop of sweat

I've logged about 700km since I bought my bike. Maybe too early for higher intensity work?

What kind of bike do you have? Do you have the right gears for the steep hills? They will be murder if you don't. If it's a racing bike does it have a 34 tooth chainring on the chainset and a 32 on the back cassette? A triple chainset can make the hills easier. Are you spinning the gears ie pedaling faster on a lower gear rather than pedaling slow grinding out some huge gear? Aim for 90 pedal revolutions per minute and get comfortable with that. If you are putting the effort in on the bike which it sounds like you are make sure you are eating enough, eat lots. What you eat today is power for tomorrow. High carbs, potatoes, rice, pasta and fruits like bananas. Drinks lots too. If you don't eat and drink enough everything becomes too hard.

yes high rpm is very important. 90 or more.

[h90]

I am a runner, not a biker. Got a 50K run tomorrow so it will be out of bed at 2:30 am......

It is not just to beat the heat but also to beat the traffic.

People covered from head to toe is more to prevent sun reaching the pristine skin. Personally, I couldn't care less and run in shorts and vest.

If you are overheating, you may be pushing too hard. You cannot rode/run at the same intensity as you would in 18-degree weather. Take a notch out.

You may be right about me pushing too hard. I ride in the south of Phuket, there are short hills but they can be very steep (10/20%). I'm probably not fit enough to tackle them as they leave me completely drained. But I also want to get better and manage bigger climbs like Big Buddha or Kata View Point.

I also sometimes try to follow some local riders when riding around the lake at 32+km/h for a couple laps. I have to recover for 15 minutes riding at snail pace after that while they continue speeding through without shedding a drop of sweat

I've logged about 700km since I bought my bike. Maybe too early for higher intensity work?

Again, I speak from a runner's perspective but the principle is the same: I have coached many people (hobby, not professionally) and inevitably the folks that pushed too hard were the first ones that dropped out or ended up with injury. Look at the Kenyan runners, they do a lot of their training at a slow (for them) pace. Ease off, it is not just fitness but your body needs to adapt to the new stresses as well.

in my experience on the bike you can push harder than when running as beginner. Far less injuries because just rotating movement, no shocks when hitting the ground.

Of course it is still possible of overdoing it, but at running the danger is bigger.

[villagefarang]

No hydration problems these days as I am on the trainer indoors, at least until the smoke clears.

[hanno]

I am a runner, not a biker. Got a 50K run tomorrow so it will be out of bed at 2:30 am......

It is not just to beat the heat but also to beat the traffic.

People covered from head to toe is more to prevent sun reaching the pristine skin. Personally, I couldn't care less and run in shorts and vest.

If you are overheating, you may be pushing too hard. You cannot rode/run at the same intensity as you would in 18-degree weather. Take a notch out.

You may be right about me pushing too hard. I ride in the south of Phuket, there are short hills but they can be very steep (10/20%). I'm probably not fit enough to tackle them as they leave me completely drained. But I also want to get better and manage bigger climbs like Big Buddha or Kata View Point.

I also sometimes try to follow some local riders when riding around the lake at 32+km/h for a couple laps. I have to recover for 15 minutes riding at snail pace after that while they continue speeding through without shedding a drop of sweat

I've logged about 700km since I bought my bike. Maybe too early for higher intensity work?

Again, I speak from a runner's perspective but the principle is the same: I have coached many people (hobby, not professionally) and inevitably the folks that pushed too hard were the first ones that dropped out or ended up with injury. Look at the Kenyan runners, they do a lot of their training at a slow (for them) pace. Ease off, it is not just fitness but your body needs to adapt to the new stresses as well.

in my experience on the bike you can push harder than when running as beginner. Far less injuries because just rotating movement, no shocks when hitting the ground.

Of course it is still possible of overdoing it, but at running the danger is bigger.

I agree but what I meant that I see a lot of people deciding to pick up a sport and then completely overdo it, get sore, and quit. But yes, the impact on a bike is a lot less though the heat still makes it tough at times.

[chiangmaiexpat]

I never had a problem cycling up Doi Suthep in the midday sun, and although the fluid loss is tremendous, it's a relatively short ride and drinking fixes the problem. In my case, heat exhaustion kicks in predictably after 4-5 hours exposure to the sun. Heat tolerance differs individually, but I can say for sure that it increases with training. Just like endurance it takes time to build up. So just keep on going. Conditioning is the key.

Cheers, CM-Expat

[Puwa]

I think the head-to-toe coverage for athletes is less about fear of a dark complexion and more for protection against sunstroke. Full tropical sun on bare skin can raise body temperature beyond your ability to cool down by sweating alone.

[pistachios]

I am a runner, not a biker. Got a 50K run tomorrow so it will be out of bed at 2:30 am......

It is not just to beat the heat but also to beat the traffic.

People covered from head to toe is more to prevent sun reaching the pristine skin. Personally, I couldn't care less and run in shorts and vest.

If you are overheating, you may be pushing too hard. You cannot rode/run at the same intensity as you would in 18-degree weather. Take a notch out.

You may be right about me pushing too hard. I ride in the south of Phuket, there are short hills but they can be very steep (10/20%). I'm probably not fit enough to tackle them as they leave me completely drained. But I also want to get better and manage bigger climbs like Big Buddha or Kata View Point.

I also sometimes try to follow some local riders when riding around the lake at 32+km/h for a couple laps. I have to recover for 15 minutes riding at snail pace after that while they continue speeding through without shedding a drop of sweat

I've logged about 700km since I bought my bike. Maybe too early for higher intensity work?

What kind of bike do you have? Do you have the right gears for the steep hills? They will be murder if you don't. If it's a racing bike does it have a 34 tooth chainring on the chainset and a 32 on the back cassette? A triple chainset can make the hills easier. Are you spinning the gears ie pedaling faster on a lower gear rather than pedaling slow grinding out some huge gear? Aim for 90 pedal revolutions per minute and get comfortable with that. If you are putting the effort in on the bike which it sounds like you are make sure you are eating enough, eat lots. What you eat today is power for tomorrow. High carbs, potatoes, rice, pasta and fruits like bananas. Drinks lots too. If you don't eat and drink enough everything becomes too hard.

Racing bike with a 34*30 which is the bracket I use whenever it gets quite steep. Probably not eating enough, I haven't gained a pound since I started cycling, still way to skinny I think.

[chiangmaiexpat]

I think the head-to-toe coverage for athletes is less about fear of a dark complexion and more for protection against sunstroke. Full tropical sun on bare skin can raise body temperature beyond your ability to cool down by sweating alone.

It's about protection from UV rays (and yes, in Thailand definitely fear of dark complexion). There's no other advantage.

Full textile coverage is likely to increase body temperature and therefore brings on heat exhaustion (which comes before heat stroke) even faster. I've tried both, and bare skin plus sunscreen (SPF 50++) is definitely more comfortable and cooler.

This is probably also the reason why one doesn't see many pro athletes dressed like mummies if they race in hot/sunny weather.

Cheers, CM-Expat