U.S. military leaders say Russian response to lethal aids unpredictable

[webfact]

U.S. military leaders say Russian response to lethal aids unpredictable
English.news.cn

WASHINGTON, Feb. 26 (Xinhua) -- U.S. military leaders said Wednesday that the White House was still mulling whether to arm Kiev with lethal weapons, and admitted that Russian response to such lethal aids was unpredictable.

Air Force General Philip Breedlove, military chief of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO), told the House Armed Services Committee that in his discussion with the U.S. President Barack Obama about possible military options, he introduced a wide range of weapons required by the Ukrainian forces, from small arms to more sophisticated ones which require advanced training.

The focus of the discussion was "to give Ukraine more ability to defend itself against the separatist aggression" instead of fundamentally altering the military balance, said Gen. Breedlove, adding that equipped with lethal aids, Kiev may change "Russian calculations".

However, Breedlove acknowledged that the U.S. military had found no way to be sure how Moscow would react if U.S. supplies of lethal aids reach Kiev.

Full story: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/europe/europe/2015-02/26/c_134018306.htm

-- Xinhua 2015-02-26

[Anthony5]

Looks like the cease fire, negotiated by European leaders, doesn't go down well with warmonger America.

Lets. provoke a bit, and assure us of another war.

[bangkokheat]

here we go, beginning of the end

[Loptr]

This is bound to ratchet up the rhetoric... The US will not stop until they have provoked Russia into an armed conflict... It's what they want...

Here is the west's latest tactic, which Putin has denounced as genocide...

http://news.sky.com/story/1434081/putin-ukraine-gas-cut-off-smacks-of-genocide

Putin: Ukraine Gas Cut-Off 'Smacks Of Genocide'

A dispute continues over gas supplies in eastern Ukraine, with Russia's Vladimir Putin accusing Kiev of "genocide"

[2fishin2]

Looks like the cease fire, negotiated by European leaders, doesn't go down well with warmonger America.

Lets. provoke a bit, and assure us of another war.

Within 2 hrs of the ceasefire the separatists broke it and they havent stopped since. How is this an American fault? Didnt Russia conduct "war games" and shows of force right on the border? Didnt Russia invade and annex Crimea as its own? How does that show or prove US is a war monger? How many countries has the US annexed as their own in the last 100 years? How many bodies of land has Russia taken?

Your statement are very far from the truth.

[wabothai]

Stay out of it US and stop bullying.

You have already created enough disaster around the world. Not you but the Europeans have the word here.

[StasD]

I think we are ready for the worst events. So let the US does what they want anyway it will be unsuccessful.

Edited February 26, 2015 by StasD

[Baerboxer]

Stay out of it US and stop bullying.

You have already created enough disaster around the world. Not you but the Europeans have the word here.

I think you'll find the US is a member of NATO.

And that American forces, along with British and other NATO members, stationed in Germany were a key deterrent to Russian threat in the cold war period.

America has every right to be involved and express its opinion.

How many of the former Warsaw Pact countries chose to side with Russia? Does that tell you anything?

[Baerboxer]

I think we are ready for the worst events. So let the US does what they want anyway it will be unsuccessful.

You reckon?

[2fishin2]

Stay out of it US and stop bullying.

You have already created enough disaster around the world. Not you but the Europeans have the word here.

Point of clarification, the US didnt mass thousands of troops and war machines on the border. It was Russia who did and continues to "bully" Ukraine just like in Crimea.

Also, the US did not have any part in the peace talks but Russia sure did.

Is that enough Russian involvement for you?

The only thing the US has provided is deterrent and prodding the countries for a peaceful resolution. Russia's answer to it all...arm the opposition, cut off oil and threaten with those massive troop movements on the border. Lest not forget about the shootdown of an civilian airliner by the separatists and the chaos that caused.....

If there is anybody who should stay out, its Putin.

[Godders]

Stay out of it US and stop bullying.

You have already created enough disaster around the world. Not you but the Europeans have the word here.

Point of clarification, the US didnt mass thousands of troops and war machines on the border. It was Russia who did and continues to "bully" Ukraine just like in Crimea.

Also, the US did not have any part in the peace talks but Russia sure did.

Is that enough Russian involvement for you?

The only thing the US has provided is deterrent and prodding the countries for a peaceful resolution. Russia's answer to it all...arm the opposition, cut off oil and threaten with those massive troop movements on the border. Lest not forget about the shootdown of an civilian airliner by the separatists and the chaos that caused.....

If there is anybody who should stay out, its Putin.

You need to get out more and stop reading just the tame Western mass media. Only someone totally ignorant of the role of the US and Nato in the ongoing encirclement and isolation of Russia and the installation of a puppet regime as part of this plan would parrot such crass nonsense.

If my children and grandchildren have no future, it will be because of sheep like you who can't tell the difference between and shepherd and a wolf.

[JAG]

^^^ Barking, absolutely barking!

[Godders]

Is there anybody, apart possibly from Wall Street, who wants a third world war? Time to put your dicks away, guys.

[2fishin2]

Stay out of it US and stop bullying.

You have already created enough disaster around the world. Not you but the Europeans have the word here.

Point of clarification, the US didnt mass thousands of troops and war machines on the border. It was Russia who did and continues to "bully" Ukraine just like in Crimea.

Also, the US did not have any part in the peace talks but Russia sure did.

Is that enough Russian involvement for you?

The only thing the US has provided is deterrent and prodding the countries for a peaceful resolution. Russia's answer to it all...arm the opposition, cut off oil and threaten with those massive troop movements on the border. Lest not forget about the shootdown of an civilian airliner by the separatists and the chaos that caused.....

If there is anybody who should stay out, its Putin.

You need to get out more and stop reading just the tame Western mass media. Only someone totally ignorant of the role of the US and Nato in the ongoing encirclement and isolation of Russia and the installation of a puppet regime as part of this plan would parrot such crass nonsense.

If my children and grandchildren have no future, it will be because of sheep like you who can't tell the difference between and shepherd and a wolf.

Back up you statements with facts....

[bassman]

This is bound to ratchet up the rhetoric... The US will not stop until they have provoked Russia into an armed conflict... It's what they want...

Here is the west's latest tactic, which Putin has denounced as genocide...

http://news.sky.com/story/1434081/putin-ukraine-gas-cut-off-smacks-of-genocide

Putin: Ukraine Gas Cut-Off 'Smacks Of Genocide'

A dispute continues over gas supplies in eastern Ukraine, with Russia's Vladimir Putin accusing Kiev of "genocide"

Interesting article and Putin quote on genocide you frame, however in the article the warmongering Putin goes on to say "Mr Putin said Russia will cut the supplies off if Kiev fails to pay, a move he threatened "will create a problem" for gas transit to Europe."

So what is the forked tongued Stalinist saying that he will create more genocide by cutting off the supply to all Ukraine as well as Europe?

Edited February 26, 2015 by bassman

[pattayasnowman]

Any Clash between US (NATO) Forces and Russian Forces will go Nuclear within 48hrs - End of story!!

[F430murci]

A lot of hysteria! Some need to chillax. There is not going to be a nuclear war. The Ukrainian conflict will rapidly diffuse provided the rebels/Russians don't try and take Mariupol.

These articles are only made necessary because once again Obama ran his mouth, drew a little red line and led Ukraine to believe he would help Ukraine if certain conditions were not met forcing him to once again save face.

Give me a break on the genocude issue. Putin is threatening to turn the gas off to Ukraine/Europe. Putin, however, is providing gas directly to its newly acquired territory in former Eastern Ukraine. These genocude statements are just Putin on his controlled media to Russians trying to paint Ukraine as evil and sway public opinion to back what he is doing. Russia should pay for and supply gas to its new territory whose people are attacking and shelling Ukraine.

I candidly think behind the scenes this stuff is being worked out in a much larger economic level, but poor Ukraine is going to suffer.

There will be no nuclear war or armed confrontation between US and Russia so chillax. The sky isn't falling.

[konying]

A lot of hysteria! Some need to chillax. There is not going to be a nuclear war. The Ukrainian conflict will rapidly diffuse provided the rebels/Russians don't try and take Mariupol.

These articles are only made necessary because once again Obama ran his mouth, drew a little red line and led Ukraine to believe he would help Ukraine if certain conditions were not met forcing him to once again save face.

Give me a break on the genocude issue. Putin is threatening to turn the gas off to Ukraine/Europe. Putin, however, is providing gas directly to its newly acquired territory in former Eastern Ukraine. These genocude statements are just Putin on his controlled media to Russians trying to paint Ukraine as evil and sway public opinion to back what he is doing. Russia should pay for and supply gas to its new territory whose people are attacking and shelling Ukraine.

I candidly think behind the scenes this stuff is being worked out in a much larger economic level, but poor Ukraine is going to suffer.

There will be no nuclear war or armed confrontation between US and Russia so chillax. The sky isn't falling.

Would you care to share when rebels did try to advance?

There would not have been a conflict in the first place if US did not sponsor and orchestrate and overthrow of democratically elected government, only because that government was NOT friendly towards US.

Conflict would have ended months ago, if US stayed out of it both financially and politically.

EU was not and is not interested in having conflict with Russia, but was bullied by US into one. France and Germany have been doing everything possible to mend relations, while US has been doing everything possible to break the relations.

The only rats who like the idea of a conflict is Poland and Baltic states, who would kiss anyone's backside in fear.

Putin is turning off gas to Ukraine, because lying cheats do not pay their bills and also steal gas.

Stop making up nonsense, just to support US propaganda.

[umbanda]

The US is playing with fire....because the few REALLY in POWER are not interested in a peaceful world. War is a very good business.....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/estonia/11433764/US-and-British-army-parade-300-yards-from-Russia-border.html

[F430murci]

A lot of hysteria! Some need to chillax. There is not going to be a nuclear war. The Ukrainian conflict will rapidly diffuse provided the rebels/Russians don't try and take Mariupol.

These articles are only made necessary because once again Obama ran his mouth, drew a little red line and led Ukraine to believe he would help Ukraine if certain conditions were not met forcing him to once again save face.

Give me a break on the genocude issue. Putin is threatening to turn the gas off to Ukraine/Europe. Putin, however, is providing gas directly to its newly acquired territory in former Eastern Ukraine. These genocude statements are just Putin on his controlled media to Russians trying to paint Ukraine as evil and sway public opinion to back what he is doing. Russia should pay for and supply gas to its new territory whose people are attacking and shelling Ukraine.

I candidly think behind the scenes this stuff is being worked out in a much larger economic level, but poor Ukraine is going to suffer.

There will be no nuclear war or armed confrontation between US and Russia so chillax. The sky isn't falling.

Would you care to share when rebels did try to advance?

There would not have been a conflict in the first place if US did not sponsor and orchestrate and overthrow of democratically elected government, only because that government was NOT friendly towards US.

Conflict would have ended months ago, if US stayed out of it both financially and politically.

EU was not and is not interested in having conflict with Russia, but was bullied by US into one. France and Germany have been doing everything possible to mend relations, while US has been doing everything possible to break the relations.

The only rats who like the idea of a conflict is Poland and Baltic states, who would kiss anyone's backside in fear.

Putin is turning off gas to Ukraine, because lying cheats do not pay their bills and also steal gas.

Stop making up nonsense, just to support US propaganda.

Holly cow! No wonder tou guys are such a mess and Putun has such an easy time with people like you. Is it just a basic and fundamental lack of intelligence or just pure dishonesty.

My post simply made a few points: (1) there will be no nuclear war; (2) there will be no armed conflict between US and Russia; (3) Russia should and is already supplying gas to its newly acquired territory; (4) this article serves but one purpose, Obama trying to save face for drawing another red line; and (5) Russia's threat to terminate gas service actually creates a humanitarian crisis.

But alas, you consider Ukrainians to be "rats" apparently not deserving of heat or basic life necessities. Therein lies the problem.

Your canned response rhetoric bs that you throw out every single time no matter what you respond to is sad, but insightful. Do you read what you respond to before throwing out same old ridiculous dribble tape playing over and over in your head? Is that all you got? Is that all you are capable of saying or are you incapable of comprehending what should be somewhat easy subject matter?

You have no respect or empathy for innocent suffering people that you just consider "rats." That speaks volumes about you abd your absolute inability to turn off that tape playing over and over and over and over and over inside your head. No wonder you guys are such a mes.

[F430murci]

More reason to chillax. Ukraine is withdrawing artillery and truce appears to be holding. So unless the Russian backed rebels decide to start shelling Mariupol again and try to take Mariupol, the cease fire should hold. No nuclear war, no Armageddon and no world crisis.

----------

Ukraine begins artillery withdrawal, recognizing truce is holding

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0LU1EH20150226?irpc=932

[konying]

A lot of hysteria! Some need to chillax. There is not going to be a nuclear war. The Ukrainian conflict will rapidly diffuse provided the rebels/Russians don't try and take Mariupol.

These articles are only made necessary because once again Obama ran his mouth, drew a little red line and led Ukraine to believe he would help Ukraine if certain conditions were not met forcing him to once again save face.

Give me a break on the genocude issue. Putin is threatening to turn the gas off to Ukraine/Europe. Putin, however, is providing gas directly to its newly acquired territory in former Eastern Ukraine. These genocude statements are just Putin on his controlled media to Russians trying to paint Ukraine as evil and sway public opinion to back what he is doing. Russia should pay for and supply gas to its new territory whose people are attacking and shelling Ukraine.

I candidly think behind the scenes this stuff is being worked out in a much larger economic level, but poor Ukraine is going to suffer.

There will be no nuclear war or armed confrontation between US and Russia so chillax. The sky isn't falling.

Would you care to share when rebels did try to advance?

There would not have been a conflict in the first place if US did not sponsor and orchestrate and overthrow of democratically elected government, only because that government was NOT friendly towards US.

Conflict would have ended months ago, if US stayed out of it both financially and politically.

EU was not and is not interested in having conflict with Russia, but was bullied by US into one. France and Germany have been doing everything possible to mend relations, while US has been doing everything possible to break the relations.

The only rats who like the idea of a conflict is Poland and Baltic states, who would kiss anyone's backside in fear.

Putin is turning off gas to Ukraine, because lying cheats do not pay their bills and also steal gas.

Stop making up nonsense, just to support US propaganda.

Holly cow! No wonder tou guys are such a mess and Putun has such an easy time with people like you. Is it just a basic and fundamental lack of intelligence or just pure dishonesty.

My post simply made a few points: (1) there will be no nuclear war; (2) there will be no armed conflict between US and Russia; (3) Russia should and is already supplying gas to its newly acquired territory; (4) this article serves but one purpose, Obama trying to save face for drawing another red line; and (5) Russia's threat to terminate gas service actually creates a humanitarian crisis.

But alas, you consider Ukrainians to be "rats" apparently not deserving of heat or basic life necessities. Therein lies the problem.

Your canned response rhetoric bs that you throw out every single time no matter what you respond to is sad, but insightful. Do you read what you respond to before throwing out same old ridiculous dribble tape playing over and over in your head? Is that all you got? Is that all you are capable of saying or are you incapable of comprehending what should be somewhat easy subject matter?

You have no respect or empathy for innocent suffering people that you just consider "rats." That speaks volumes about you abd your absolute inability to turn off that tape playing over and over and over and over and over inside your head. No wonder you guys are such a mes.

No, you do not make points,

Your posts are always to spew half truth and promote US.

I do not think i ever read you accepted that US was the root of the problem.

Yes i do consider Ukrainian government backed by US to be rats, because they refuse to pay bills, they steal and even after being given money to pay the bills, steal all the money and pay nothing.

They cut off pension payments, so i guess oldies in East Ukraine should starve to death?

What do you consider them? patriots?

I see, so i have no empathy? How about you condemn the action of your government for bombing and killing thousands of innocent civilians in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Serbia

How about all those thousands killed in Syria and over a million in refuge camps because US administration decided to back rebels.

All those do not deserve basics?

How about millions in Russia who suffering because of sanctions imposed by US?

I wonder what was the first thing on Obama's mind when he decided to overthrow government in Ukraine? For some reason, i do not think civilians were at the top of the list.

But i am the one with no ability or empathy

Good to see you ain't a hypocrite .

[konying]

More reason to chillax. Ukraine is withdrawing artillery and truce appears to be holding. So unless the Russian backed rebels decide to start shelling Mariupol again and try to take Mariupol, the cease fire should hold. No nuclear war, no Armageddon and no world crisis.

----------

Ukraine begins artillery withdrawal, recognizing truce is holding

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0LU1EH20150226?irpc=932

Ain't that a disappointment.

Just the other week US was screaming how Russia sent half of its military in Ukraine, and thousands of tanks are invading Ukraine and more sanctions to come and more people put on banned list, only to discover in truth none of it was real and truce negotiated by NOT US is holding.

[F430murci]

A lot of hysteria! Some need to chillax. There is not going to be a nuclear war. The Ukrainian conflict will rapidly diffuse provided the rebels/Russians don't try and take Mariupol.

These articles are only made necessary because once again Obama ran his mouth, drew a little red line and led Ukraine to believe he would help Ukraine if certain conditions were not met forcing him to once again save face.

Give me a break on the genocude issue. Putin is threatening to turn the gas off to Ukraine/Europe. Putin, however, is providing gas directly to its newly acquired territory in former Eastern Ukraine. These genocude statements are just Putin on his controlled media to Russians trying to paint Ukraine as evil and sway public opinion to back what he is doing. Russia should pay for and supply gas to its new territory whose people are attacking and shelling Ukraine.

I candidly think behind the scenes this stuff is being worked out in a much larger economic level, but poor Ukraine is going to suffer.

There will be no nuclear war or armed confrontation between US and Russia so chillax. The sky isn't falling.

Would you care to share when rebels did try to advance?

There would not have been a conflict in the first place if US did not sponsor and orchestrate and overthrow of democratically elected government, only because that government was NOT friendly towards US.

Conflict would have ended months ago, if US stayed out of it both financially and politically.

EU was not and is not interested in having conflict with Russia, but was bullied by US into one. France and Germany have been doing everything possible to mend relations, while US has been doing everything possible to break the relations.

The only rats who like the idea of a conflict is Poland and Baltic states, who would kiss anyone's backside in fear.

Putin is turning off gas to Ukraine, because lying cheats do not pay their bills and also steal gas.

Stop making up nonsense, just to support US propaganda.

Holly cow! No wonder tou guys are such a mess and Putun has such an easy time with people like you. Is it just a basic and fundamental lack of intelligence or just pure dishonesty.

My post simply made a few points: (1) there will be no nuclear war; (2) there will be no armed conflict between US and Russia; (3) Russia should and is already supplying gas to its newly acquired territory; (4) this article serves but one purpose, Obama trying to save face for drawing another red line; and (5) Russia's threat to terminate gas service actually creates a humanitarian crisis.

But alas, you consider Ukrainians to be "rats" apparently not deserving of heat or basic life necessities. Therein lies the problem.

Your canned response rhetoric bs that you throw out every single time no matter what you respond to is sad, but insightful. Do you read what you respond to before throwing out same old ridiculous dribble tape playing over and over in your head? Is that all you got? Is that all you are capable of saying or are you incapable of comprehending what should be somewhat easy subject matter?

You have no respect or empathy for innocent suffering people that you just consider "rats." That speaks volumes about you abd your absolute inability to turn off that tape playing over and over and over and over and over inside your head. No wonder you guys are such a mes.

No, you do not make points,

Your posts are always to spew half truth and promote US.

I do not think i ever read you accepted that US was the root of the problem.

Yes i do consider Ukrainian government backed by US to be rats, because they refuse to pay bills, they steal and even after being given money to pay the bills, steal all the money and pay nothing.

They cut off pension payments, so i guess oldies in East Ukraine should starve to death?

What do you consider them? patriots?

I see, so i have no empathy? How about you condemn the action of your government for bombing and killing thousands of innocent civilians in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Serbia

How about all those thousands killed in Syria and over a million in refuge camps because US administration decided to back rebels.

All those do not deserve basics?

How about millions in Russia who suffering because of sanctions imposed by US?

I wonder what was the first thing on Obama's mind when he decided to overthrow government in Ukraine? For some reason, i do not think civilians were at the top of the list.

But i am the one with no ability or empathy

Good to see you ain't a hypocrite .

Lol, I outline my points in bullet point and you ignore them and commence with the same rhetoric, most of which has zero to do with the Ukraine.

Both Russia and the Ukraine were basket cases and on downward spirals long before 2014 because of their own decisions and widespread corruption.

Poor Russia just cannot get it together. They implode in late 80s, hit hyperinflation and economic melt down in early 90s and default in late 90s.

Then what happened . . . Russia began participating in the US and world markets and experienced incredible growth and prosperity never before experienced by Russians.

That, however, did not last because Putin and those in control run Russia like the mafia and stole hundreds of billions that were needed to rebuild infrastructure, create jobs and boost GDP per capita which is pathetic for a country with its natural resources.

Once, again, Russia drove itself into the ground, into recession and stagflation. Once again, Russia is experiencing hyperinflation and are in danger of default for s second time IN LESS THAN 20 years

The US sanctions had very little to do with this. Oil prices only speed up what was already set in motion.

You can blame it on the US, but until Russia takes some responsibility for its own economic woes, Russia will continue the same cycle and will have many dark years ahead.

RE: Ukraine

Ukraine suffered from the same Russia mafia like corrupt government that completely drove it into the ground well before 2014. Ukraine had one chance to escape the same never ending cycle and enjoy a potentially better life. Jettison the mafia, Russian style corruption, rebuild its economy and participate more in the world markets.

Sadly, Ukraine had a chance to better its existence, but Russia made sure that did not happen.

I completely get Putin's concern in January 2014 when the writing was on the wall. Putin had to protect its naval base interests in Crimea and used the destabilization of the Ukraine to take over Eastern Ukraine to protect what it perceived a security interests.

That makes sense to me. I get it. I don;t fault him for it. I just fault him for the surreptitious, devious manner in which he accomplished this act and the fact that he ruined Ukrainians chances to perhaps better their country economically.

RE: Who Brokered and Who Wants Peace

France and Germany taking the lead was a basic example of good cop, bad cop. Putting Obama and Putin and the same room would not have been fruitful. At the end of the day, the US wants this area to stabilize more than anyone else because the US does not want to rock the boat on what is currently a strong economy providing a great way of life to Americans. Conflict with Russia could send that spiraling. Putin with his basket case of an economy has much less to lose than US if conflict persist.

[konying]

So yet once again and no surprise no acknowledgement of US starting the whole mess.

What previous government did is none of US business and does not give US the right to interfere. Full stop.

Germany and France helped for no other reason than they both suffer because of US meddling.

Both loosing billions in trade with Russia and both worry about gas.

[F430murci]

So yet once again and no surprise no acknowledgement of US starting the whole mess.

What previous government did is none of US business and does not give US the right to interfere. Full stop.

Germany and France helped for no other reason than they both suffer because of US meddling.

Both loosing billions in trade with Russia and both worry about gas.

The US did not start the mess in the Ukraine. Ukraine has been a basket case for years. Revolution/protests in 2004 or 2005? In the last 10 years, Ukraine has been plagued by corruption due to Russian styled and influenced government, mismanagement, poor economic conditions, poor GDP growth, inflation and devaluation of currency and an absolute inability to obtain funding from public markets to try and correct its course and rebuild its economy and infrastructure.

Ukraine remaining status quo and remaining subservient to Russia just was not working out well for the Ukraine so Ukraine and Yanuchovych sought a solution.

Yanuchovych seeks help from EU:

Yanuchovych initially sought help from both the EU and Russia to obtain funds. EU did not go looking for him. He entered an agreement with EU to obtain funds that HE SOUGHT OUT from the EU, but Russia said don't you dare so he backed off.

Terms of Russian loan:

Russia forced Yanuchovych to cancel the EU agreement and borrow $ 15 bn from Russia payable in $ 2 bn tranches. Ukraine, however, was required to relinquish the Kerch peninsula. There was NO set Interest rate on the Russian loans payable in 7 tranches. Interest rates would be renegotiated every quarter (BAD idea to let your lender set the interest rate AFTER take the money or loan). Russia said it would cut the price of gas sold to the Ukraine, but the price cut was subject to rescission at any time. Russia said they would stop harassing Ukraine exports at the border and return to pre-2013 customs regulations. The deal was then sealed with illegal kick backs and bribes ala Yuriy Kolobov.

REALLY??? Who the heck would sign such a deal. No set Interest rate. Give up valuable land. You might get a break in gas prices this month, but probably not next month. Sounds like a loan from the Mafia. No wonder people from the Ukraine with any sense were pissed off.

Russia then started exerting economic coercions, harassing Ukraine exports at the border and threatened to turn off the gas to force Ukraine into releasing the 2nd $ 2 bn tranche. Meanwhile, Ukrainians with any common sense were pissed and protesting because they saw their chances at a new an better life slipping away due to Yunuchovych signing a heavily one-sided mafia like loan agreement with Russia (a lot which will be stolen by corrupt Russian and Ukrainian politicians) the conditions of which perpetuated Ukraine's weakness and subservience to Russia that Ukrainians wanted to escape.

Who really is meddling?:

So . . . who is really meddling? This is a question for the people of Ukraine to answer, not some Russian internet trolls with an agenda. Nevertheless, lets look at some facts and observations.

Yanuchovych SOUGHT out the EU to obtain funds and to actually try and do something positive with the Ukrainian economy by tapping into world market. Russia did not want that and forced Yanuchovych to cancel his deal with the EU and forced him to enter a horribly one-sided agreement with Russia.

Ukrainians were and are still pissed at Russia for meddling in its deal with the EU which Ukrainians believed would turn their lives around. Ukrainians are pissed at Russia because Russia tried to force an absolutely ridiculous loan down its throat designed solely to keep Ukraine subservient to Russia.

[Publicus]

A lot of hysteria! Some need to chillax. There is not going to be a nuclear war. The Ukrainian conflict will rapidly diffuse provided the rebels/Russians don't try and take Mariupol.

These articles are only made necessary because once again Obama ran his mouth, drew a little red line and led Ukraine to believe he would help Ukraine if certain conditions were not met forcing him to once again save face.

Give me a break on the genocude issue. Putin is threatening to turn the gas off to Ukraine/Europe. Putin, however, is providing gas directly to its newly acquired territory in former Eastern Ukraine. These genocude statements are just Putin on his controlled media to Russians trying to paint Ukraine as evil and sway public opinion to back what he is doing. Russia should pay for and supply gas to its new territory whose people are attacking and shelling Ukraine.

I candidly think behind the scenes this stuff is being worked out in a much larger economic level, but poor Ukraine is going to suffer.

There will be no nuclear war or armed confrontation between US and Russia so chillax. The sky isn't falling.

Would you care to share when rebels did try to advance?

There would not have been a conflict in the first place if US did not sponsor and orchestrate and overthrow of democratically elected government, only because that government was NOT friendly towards US.

Conflict would have ended months ago, if US stayed out of it both financially and politically.

EU was not and is not interested in having conflict with Russia, but was bullied by US into one. France and Germany have been doing everything possible to mend relations, while US has been doing everything possible to break the relations.

The only rats who like the idea of a conflict is Poland and Baltic states, who would kiss anyone's backside in fear.

Putin is turning off gas to Ukraine, because lying cheats do not pay their bills and also steal gas.

Stop making up nonsense, just to support US propaganda.

Holly cow! No wonder tou guys are such a mess and Putun has such an easy time with people like you. Is it just a basic and fundamental lack of intelligence or just pure dishonesty.

My post simply made a few points: (1) there will be no nuclear war; (2) there will be no armed conflict between US and Russia; (3) Russia should and is already supplying gas to its newly acquired territory; (4) this article serves but one purpose, Obama trying to save face for drawing another red line; and (5) Russia's threat to terminate gas service actually creates a humanitarian crisis.

But alas, you consider Ukrainians to be "rats" apparently not deserving of heat or basic life necessities. Therein lies the problem.

Your canned response rhetoric bs that you throw out every single time no matter what you respond to is sad, but insightful. Do you read what you respond to before throwing out same old ridiculous dribble tape playing over and over in your head? Is that all you got? Is that all you are capable of saying or are you incapable of comprehending what should be somewhat easy subject matter?

You have no respect or empathy for innocent suffering people that you just consider "rats." That speaks volumes about you abd your absolute inability to turn off that tape playing over and over and over and over and over inside your head. No wonder you guys are such a mes.

No, you do not make points,

Your posts are always to spew half truth and promote US.

I do not think i ever read you accepted that US was the root of the problem.

Yes i do consider Ukrainian government backed by US to be rats, because they refuse to pay bills, they steal and even after being given money to pay the bills, steal all the money and pay nothing.

They cut off pension payments, so i guess oldies in East Ukraine should starve to death?

What do you consider them? patriots?

I see, so i have no empathy? How about you condemn the action of your government for bombing and killing thousands of innocent civilians in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Serbia

How about all those thousands killed in Syria and over a million in refuge camps because US administration decided to back rebels.

All those do not deserve basics?

How about millions in Russia who suffering because of sanctions imposed by US?

I wonder what was the first thing on Obama's mind when he decided to overthrow government in Ukraine? For some reason, i do not think civilians were at the top of the list.

But i am the one with no ability or empathy

Good to see you ain't a hypocrite .

We were only protecting the English speaking peoples in every one of those places...

Given comrade Putin's concerns over the Russian speaking peoples of Ukraine, the Baltics and Eurasia broadly speaking, it's a mystery how and why Putin and his people to include his publicists don't see or understand the reasons or rationale of the actions by the US over time

It is our natural and historical right to protect speakers of the English language who are under threat of extinction, where ever they may be.

[Somtamnication]

Geez, I don't know how they would react. I mean, if Russia offered lethal aid to Alaskan separatists, how would Washington react?

[F430murci]

Geez, I don't know how they would react. I mean, if Russia offered lethal aid to Alaskan separatists, how would Washington react?

Very different scenario. Cannot even figure out way to make a comparison with Alaska, US and Russia.

Let's say Canada got into a civil war and US had its eye on West Canada because it has great snow skiing and it connects US to Alaska. So, US sends a bunch unmarked tanks into West Canada (without admitting it of course) and annexes West Canada from Washington State to Alaska. Then the Canadian rebels started pushing East with the use of US tanks and some US troops dressed in unmarked uniforms. If Russia then sent Canada anti tank weapons, should US who denies even being in Canada be pissed? Perhaps quietly pissed, but not really. Its Canada for Christ sakes and Russia is just supplying weapons to Canada so that Canada defend itself and its territory from aggression by other Canadians.

Now if Russia gave Canada sophisticated weapons and troops to invade US, yes . . . US would and should be openly pissed.

[ABCer]

<quote # 25>

F430murci, I agree with what you say except the following:

Both countries are going down. True.

Both are in deep shit due to mafia style Gov't and massive corruption. True.

In both countries US had little effect, especially on the mafia and Gov't. True.

Crimea is a direct result of US interference. True.

East-West Ukraine war is a direct result of US interference. Ukraine and Russia would have resolved Sevastopol problem without US involvement without annexation.

US never wanted stabilization in this area. Around the World US policies are aimed and achieve only destabilization.

Both countries - Ukraine and Russia - never had a chance for better life. Neither of them have historic, economic, social and political basis for improvement.

US persistence in further destabilization of Russia is counterproductive and very dangerous for Russia, Ukraine and the West.