142k baht a carport?

[dragonfly94]

we get kids at weekends, levels are not meant for finding straight lines, they are just used as props!

[dendijk]

It works out to 5,400/sqm - while not cheap, you certainly couldn't call it a rip off. Those 7M long beams would have a very decent amount of rebar in them to cover that span. Very unfortunate the electrical conduits were chased in after the posts were formed - or perhaps they were an afterthought of the client? Who knows what work went into the foundations for the posts too - for all we know there could be 20K+ Baht worth of piles in the ground under them, and 18M of subterranean ring-beam tying it all together.

As for the chunks of concrete missing from posts/beam, it appears as if the forms were removed a little to early and took some of the concrete with them. They don't appear to have been caused by lack of concrete 'rattling' during the pour, so therefore don't indicate a weakened structure.

It seems you have a technical or contracting background or maybe just a lot of experience please correct me if i am wrong.

I hope you don't mind me asking you so many questions but i am wrestling with the following equation;

For the carport i am trying to figure out what part of that 142k baht quoted should be addressed to the roofing only? Should i say it is half of the work so half of the materials which results into half of the price or should i let another formula lose on it?

This all of course regardless whether the materials used are new or not. Just interested if i could pin a % on the different parts of the work.

Thanks for your input

[dendijk]

we get kids at weekends, levels are not meant for finding straight lines, they are just used as props!

Hahaha.....

So you are saying at 10k baht for a small wall i should not expect a straight wall where doorposts can actually have doors inside which close properly.

I am afraid after this experience you are absolutely right

Edited March 2, 2015 by dendijk

[IMHO]

It works out to 5,400/sqm - while not cheap, you certainly couldn't call it a rip off. Those 7M long beams would have a very decent amount of rebar in them to cover that span. Very unfortunate the electrical conduits were chased in after the posts were formed - or perhaps they were an afterthought of the client? Who knows what work went into the foundations for the posts too - for all we know there could be 20K+ Baht worth of piles in the ground under them, and 18M of subterranean ring-beam tying it all together.

As for the chunks of concrete missing from posts/beam, it appears as if the forms were removed a little to early and took some of the concrete with them. They don't appear to have been caused by lack of concrete 'rattling' during the pour, so therefore don't indicate a weakened structure.

It seems you have a technical or contracting background or maybe just a lot of experience please correct me if i am wrong.

I hope you don't mind me asking you so many questions but i am wrestling with the following equation;

For the carport i am trying to figure out what part of that 142k baht quoted should be addressed to the roofing only? Should i say it is half of the work so half of the materials which results into half of the price or should i let another formula lose on it?

This all of course regardless whether the materials used are new or not. Just interested if i could pin a % on the different parts of the work.

Thanks for your input

What brand/model of roof tiles are going on? Will there be a foil barrier? What ceiling board will you be using (or is that not part of the price you're after)? How big are the overhangs, and what type of board will you be using for the soffits?

As a round guide, somewhere between 25-45% of the construction cost.

[dendijk]

It works out to 5,400/sqm - while not cheap, you certainly couldn't call it a rip off. Those 7M long beams would have a very decent amount of rebar in them to cover that span. Very unfortunate the electrical conduits were chased in after the posts were formed - or perhaps they were an afterthought of the client? Who knows what work went into the foundations for the posts too - for all we know there could be 20K+ Baht worth of piles in the ground under them, and 18M of subterranean ring-beam tying it all together.

As for the chunks of concrete missing from posts/beam, it appears as if the forms were removed a little to early and took some of the concrete with them. They don't appear to have been caused by lack of concrete 'rattling' during the pour, so therefore don't indicate a weakened structure.

It seems you have a technical or contracting background or maybe just a lot of experience please correct me if i am wrong.

I hope you don't mind me asking you so many questions but i am wrestling with the following equation;

For the carport i am trying to figure out what part of that 142k baht quoted should be addressed to the roofing only? Should i say it is half of the work so half of the materials which results into half of the price or should i let another formula lose on it?

This all of course regardless whether the materials used are new or not. Just interested if i could pin a % on the different parts of the work.

Thanks for your input

What brand/model of roof tiles are going on? Will there be a foil barrier? What ceiling board will you be using (or is that not part of the price you're after)? How big are the overhangs, and what type of board will you be using for the soffits?

As a round guide, somewhere between 25-45% of the construction cost.

Ok thanks.

Quotation for a carport and an extension which both included complete roofs. Then he found out after almost 4 months he could not match the colors of the house so to not make his life difficult and further delay the project we quickly decided he could replace the tiles on the existing roof of the home. When trying to calculate the total price of the roofing work it seems shockingly expensive considering whole new roof quotation for example by SCG directly only range upto 2000 baht a m2 with a cpac monier prestige tile.

I took about 45% of the carport and a little under 1/3 of the price on the extension to come to a figure.

Edited March 2, 2015 by dendijk

[cgphuket]

Rule #1. Don't do business, loan money to, or talk with ex-pats from Pattaya.

[dendijk]

Rule #1. Don't do business, loan money to, or talk with ex-pats from Pattaya.

Rule #2: Never ever forget Rule #1

[dendijk]

Ok, is that based on new materials or used steel for the roof?

It works out to 5,400/sqm - while not cheap, you certainly couldn't call it a rip off. Those 7M long beams would have a very decent amount of rebar in them to cover that span. Very unfortunate the electrical conduits were chased in after the posts were formed - or perhaps they were an afterthought of the client? Who knows what work went into the foundations for the posts too - for all we know there could be 20K+ Baht worth of piles in the ground under them, and 18M of subterranean ring-beam tying it all together.

As for the chunks of concrete missing from posts/beam, it appears as if the forms were removed a little to early and took some of the concrete with them. They don't appear to have been caused by lack of concrete 'rattling' during the pour, so therefore don't indicate a weakened structure.

The old tiles on the floor is today still the same as the house was bought. So the only thing that was done was 2 holes dug for the 2 front columns as the foundation for them.

Either way, 5,400/sqm is a reasonable price for concrete & tile - especially considering those beams.... A design with 4 posts would have been substantially cheaper to make.

I can't see anything in your photos that suggest the steel was used - what makes you think that?

That said, Steel is a commodity - whether it's a full length or on offcut, the price per meter is the same - and if offcuts are not re-used, they are recycled for not much less than what they cost.

Hi IMHO

i made about 700 pictures over the last days. I basically have every corner and angle of the home photographed now.

I am putting everything in order and i have a few clear pictures i wanted to show you. Maybe you can see the issues that made me believe it is not new steel used for the carport and all other roof extensions for that matter.

But here only pictures of the carport, please tell me what you think? I am of course not talking about the galvanized tile strips where the tile gets attached to but only the carrying grey painted U beams.

Anybody else with knowledge please do answer.

Edited March 2, 2015 by dendijk

[dendijk]

Goodmorning everybody.

Just 3 days before the contractor decided it was time to move on the 'plumber' ripped out a drain pipe for whatever reason resulting a lot of small debris falling and being stuck in the blue pipe that goes into the ground.

Can anybody recommend how we can get that debris out of the whole pipe going in the floor?

We have been thinking about trying to suck it out with a vacuum cleaner or trying to find another end and blowing high pressure air through with an air compressor.

Suggestions anyone? Without ripping the whole floor open of course

If what you are referring to is the blue pipe in photo #2, it's way to small to be a drain... Based on the fact there's a PPR pipe beside it, my guess is it's a cold water supply - in which case, a nail and a hammer to loosen the cement, and some water pressure from the other end should clean it out.

In any case, photo #1 looks like the "after" shot, so the workers have probably already handled this.

IMHO

if in the meantime you think i am being a hassle just let me know, i will not address my questions directly to you anymore.

Here you see 2 pictures of green polyweld been laid towards what should have been the future 3000 liter watertank and into the future kitchen.

You could really be right about the blue 'drain' pipe inside(also the kitchen) actually being a waterpipe but then the more strange it is that they bring green pipe inside first.

I am almost starting to think that they were putting green polyweld there where it would be highly visable before the finished job and blue pipe where we can not see it anymore.

That blue pipe from previous pictures goes into a newly poured and raised floor. To where it goes we don't know, thats why i am worried it being filled with debris.

[IMHO]

@dendijk: There is clearly some average workmanship in places of your house, but I think you'll be surprised by just how well this can still turn out. I've seen much worse workmanship still come out nice in the end, once the finishing work is complete.

The steel truss work looks OK - that join in the last photo is in an unfortunate position, but the weld looks good. Do note that C section steel mostly comes raw (the pre-painted stuff is very expensive), and gets painted with an oxide paint on site. In your case, it looks like it was brush painted, and then got dragged around a bit. It's also unfortunate they didn't use a compressor to paint the oxide layer on, as it would have got into the corners better - but all of that said, I've seen much worse still stand the test of time.

I appreciate that sometimes it's difficult to imagine how they will achieve a good finish when it's "guts" look so ugly...

Once a client sees something they consider 'shocking' - even if it has no real impact on the finished quality - people go into "investigator mode" and start scrutinizing every little part of the construction. This is exactly what you are doing now We learnt this lesson very early on, and make sure that every single day, every bit of work done, looks good.

For example, the post you showed with the chunks missing is just something that 'just happens' from time to time - the concrete sticks the forms and when they are hammered apart, and sometimes bits of concrete comes off. In our case, when we remove forms, we always have one worker with a bucket of cement and a trowel on standby to immediately patch them up before wrapping them in plastic so they get the full 28 days of curing:

Speaking of forms, that is the first thing that normally 'shocks' clients. In that case, we actually go to considerable extra expense to make nice looking forms - they don't actually make the house any stronger or make it look any better - they just look better for the 28 days they're in place:

All of this is over-and-above the norm, and we only do it because we're simply building too many houses to have to deal with unsatisfied clients that have unmerited concerns.

I guess the bottom line is, it's easy to spot the flaws during construction, but it's also pretty easy for the finishing work to make them a distant memory too. Do inspect the quality of finished surfaces for sure - but perhaps don't labor so much over the skeleton itself.

[fosseway]

Looks better built than a few condos I've seen.

Why didn't they put the electrical yellow plastic conduit inside the wooden formwork. before filling with concrete ! Must have been a hell of a job to channel the concrete out afterwards.

[dendijk]

@IMHO

Thank you for the reply. Unfortunately there are sections that need to be knocked down and rebuild.

It is exactly what you say. If you are paying an estimate of 3.5 million or above that for a renovation one would expect a faster a better endproduct. Especially when the contractor is pocketing about 30% profit for himself.

At first i suggested that knocking the building down and build new would be the best idea. He said it would takes much longer then the renovation. Now we are 5 months in the build and basically still have nothing.

What would your advise be for outside beams and pilars where the rebar is sticking out like these pictures?

I cant imagine that just putting cementfinish over it will give a long and lasting result?

Edited March 3, 2015 by dendijk

[dendijk]

Looks better built than a few condos I've seen.

Why didn't they put the electrical yellow plastic conduit inside the wooden formwork. before filling with concrete ! Must have been a hell of a job to channel the concrete out afterwards.

Goodmorning.

Yes, we spoke about that before.

I asked him that and he literally said that it is way to difficult to put the pipes in before the pour.

[dendijk]

@IMHO

Do you reckon we should take the wood out of the ends first before we let them be brushed and overpaint or just paint them as a whole?

Edited March 3, 2015 by dendijk

[IMHO]

@IMHO

Thank you for the reply. Unfortunately there are sections that need to be knocked down and rebuild.

It is exactly what you say. If you are paying an estimate of 3.5 million or above that for a renovation one would expect a faster a better endproduct. Especially when the contractor is pocketing about 30% profit for himself.

At first i suggested that knocking the building down and build new would be the best idea. He said it would takes much longer then the renovation. Now we are 5 months in the build and basically still have nothing.

What would your advise be for outside beams and pilars where the rebar is sticking out like these pictures?

I cant imagine that just putting cementfinish over it will give a long and lasting result?

Not very flattering photos.... I can't say I can imagine why those rebars are exposed like that - some of them appear to be standby for other additions. Either way, not all is necessarily lost - so long as they end up under at least 15mm of cement, they will be protected from further corrosion (the high Ph of cement inhibits steel corrosion) and will have the proper level of protection from fire damage.

[IMHO]

@IMHO

Do you reckon we should take the wood out of the ends first before we let them be brushed and overpaint or just paint them as a whole?

Those wood ends are there to support the "chern chai" (fascia boards in English?) - and what you see is fairly typical for Thai construction. The better way to do this is to use 90 degree angle iron section, welded to the truss to support the fascia boards, but it's very time consuming so most builders don't do it:

If the steel under that wood in your photo hasn't yet been coated with oxide paint, then yes, it should be. No need to paint the wood.

Edited March 3, 2015 by IMHO

[dendijk]

@IMHO

Do you reckon we should take the wood out of the ends first before we let them be brushed and overpaint or just paint them as a whole?

Those wood ends are there to support the "chern chai" (fascia boards in English?) - and what you see is fairly typical for Thai construction. The better way to do this is to use 90 degree angle iron section, welded to the truss to support the fascia boards, but it's very time consuming so most builders don't do it:

fasic-board-supports.jpg

Ok thanks. Since this home is right at sea and the SCB ATM at the 7/11 on the corner is totally rusted out because of the sea fog do we need to worry using these type of c sections or just paint over them to last another 20 years?

[dendijk]

@IMHO

Thank you for the reply. Unfortunately there are sections that need to be knocked down and rebuild.

It is exactly what you say. If you are paying an estimate of 3.5 million or above that for a renovation one would expect a faster a better endproduct. Especially when the contractor is pocketing about 30% profit for himself.

At first i suggested that knocking the building down and build new would be the best idea. He said it would takes much longer then the renovation. Now we are 5 months in the build and basically still have nothing.

What would your advise be for outside beams and pilars where the rebar is sticking out like these pictures?

I cant imagine that just putting cementfinish over it will give a long and lasting result?

Not very flattering photos.... I can't say I can imagine why those rebars are exposed like that - some of them appear to be standby for other additions. Either way, not all is necessarily lost - so long as they end up under at least 15mm of cement, they will be protected from further corrosion (the high Ph of cement inhibits steel corrosion) and will have the proper level of protection from fire damage.

Ok thanks. These are the outside walls. There are other outside sections with similar problems.

On that extension the foundation is at some point about 5-6 cm more out then at other spots. We reckon the wood forms didn't hold the mass or weight during the pour or the drying.

Edited March 3, 2015 by dendijk

[IMHO]

@IMHO

Do you reckon we should take the wood out of the ends first before we let them be brushed and overpaint or just paint them as a whole?

Those wood ends are there to support the "chern chai" (fascia boards in English?) - and what you see is fairly typical for Thai construction. The better way to do this is to use 90 degree angle iron section, welded to the truss to support the fascia boards, but it's very time consuming so most builders don't do it:

fasic-board-supports.jpg

Ok thanks. Since this home is right at sea and the SCB ATM at the 7/11 on the corner is totally rusted out because of the sea fog do we need to worry using these type of c sections or just paint over them to last another 20 years?

All non-galvanized steel needs to be costed in oxide paint, otherwise it will corrode. In some of your photos you can see patches where it has not yet been fully covered. These need to be finished properly.

[dendijk]

@IMHO

Do you reckon we should take the wood out of the ends first before we let them be brushed and overpaint or just paint them as a whole?

Those wood ends are there to support the "chern chai" (fascia boards in English?) - and what you see is fairly typical for Thai construction. The better way to do this is to use 90 degree angle iron section, welded to the truss to support the fascia boards, but it's very time consuming so most builders don't do it:

fasic-board-supports.jpg

Ok thanks. Since this home is right at sea and the SCB ATM at the 7/11 on the corner is totally rusted out because of the sea fog do we need to worry using these type of c sections or just paint over them to last another 20 years?

All non-galvanized steel needs to be costed in oxide paint, otherwise it will corrode. In some of your photos you can see patches where it has not yet been fully covered. These need to be finished properly.

Ok thanks a lot for taking the time to seriously answer my questions. I really appreciate it.

If you ever in the neighborhood of jomtien beach let me know.

I am buying

[dendijk]

Some more sections where we are unsure what todo with the rebar sticking our or being very visible.

Especially the ground beam which carries the weight of the floor and roof above it.

[IMHO]

Some more sections where we are unsure what todo with the rebar sticking our or being very visible.

Especially the ground beam which carries the weight of the floor and roof above it.

There is only one solution for exposed rebar - get it under at least 15mm of cement. As noted, cement is high Ph and works as very effective anti-rust.

[dragonfly94]

On our house the concrete has bit of paper and wood in the beams, not fallen down, yet. At least that re bar looks OK only you should not be able to see it, sometimes they used chicken wire!

Edited March 3, 2015 by dragonfly94

[dendijk]

Does anybody have more suggestion of why the concrete shown in the picture can be of such poor quality. I have already shown pictures of the whole before but here is a very close-up from the rebar inside.

We can just pulverize the concrete by hand.

I heard suggestion of 'old' concrete(being handled to late), not curing enough, wrongly mixed.

Anybody?

Edited March 3, 2015 by dendijk

[IMHO]

Does anybody have more suggestion of why the concrete shown in the picture can be of such poor quality. I have already shown pictures of the whole before but here is a very close-up from the rebar inside.

We can just pulverize the concrete by hand.

I heard suggestion of 'old' concrete(being handled to late), not curing enough, wrongly mixed.

Anybody?

Hard to tell from a photo without actually feeling the consistency of it, but my best guess is way too much sand, and not enough cement in the mix. Next suspect after that is improper curing. I suspect both happened - that is horrifically bad quality.

You absolutely must demand that gets smashed apart and rebuilt - it very clearly has zero structural integrity.

Edited March 3, 2015 by IMHO

[dendijk]

Does anybody have more suggestion of why the concrete shown in the picture can be of such poor quality. I have already shown pictures of the whole before but here is a very close-up from the rebar inside.

We can just pulverize the concrete by hand.

I heard suggestion of 'old' concrete(being handled to late), not curing enough, wrongly mixed.

Anybody?

Hard to tell from a photo without actually feeling the consistency of it, but my best guess is way too much sand, and not enough cement in the mix. Next suspect after that is improper curing. I suspect both happened - that is horrifically bad quality.

You absolutely must demand that gets smashed apart and rebuilt - it very clearly has zero structural integrity.

Yeah tell me about it. It can be broken up like blackboard chalk.

Unfortunately this is not the only place in the home where the concrete is in this shape.

If anybody is interested i will gladly send you a piece of our house renovation by Thailand Post.

Nah.... just kidding

Edited March 3, 2015 by dendijk

[dendijk]

On our house the concrete has bit of paper and wood in the beams, not fallen down, yet. At least that re bar looks OK only you should not be able to see it, sometimes they used chicken wire!

We now have alot of paper(seems like they are the cementbags) in between connections of beams. Especially those who are connected to the existing home.

[Mr Somtam]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=306111

This whole roof, steel construction, foil for isolation, roof tiles (tra chang SCG) was just over 100,000 Baht...

I think you are really being robbed by this builder!

[dendijk]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=306111

This whole roof, steel construction, foil for isolation, roof tiles (tra chang SCG) was just over 100,000 Baht...

I think you are really being robbed by this builder!

Hi Somtam,

i dunno why but your link constantly forwards me to a login page on thaivisa forums. I cannot see the picture you attached.

[dragonfly94]

thats right