Riding Laws for Larger Cycles

[Keesters]

^ mostly agree but there has to be CC limits or else the tollways will get cluttered scooter-food carts and old farmers riding their 2 smoke in all 3-4 lanes of traffic

And what makes you think that big bike owners are the only ones to follow road rules.

I see where you're going with this. You want the right to use tollways while nobody else can.

[Gweiloman]

^ mostly agree but there has to be CC limits or else the tollways will get cluttered scooter-food carts and old farmers riding their 2 smoke in all 3-4 lanes of traffic

And what makes you think that big bike owners are the only ones to follow road rules.

I see where you're going with this. You want the right to use tollways while nobody else can.

Maybe you have not been following the thread closely.

What some of us are saying is that "qualified" vehicles / bikes should be allowed to use the tollways. No one would ever argue that a scooter food cart should be allowed on a tollway, I think that's obvious.

Big displacement bikes? I would imagine that most would say that it's acceptable as they would have the necessary power and acceleration to keep up with the flow of traffic.

What about scooters, step thru's? It depends. If it's a 3 laned tollway, then I would say it's acceptable as slower vehicles should be keeping to the left anyway. In the case of a 2 laned tollway, yes, if there is a hard shoulder for the slower bike to ride on.

[Keesters]

^ mostly agree but there has to be CC limits or else the tollways will get cluttered scooter-food carts and old farmers riding their 2 smoke in all 3-4 lanes of traffic

And what makes you think that big bike owners are the only ones to follow road rules.

I see where you're going with this. You want the right to use tollways while nobody else can.

Maybe you have not been following the thread closely.

What some of us are saying is that "qualified" vehicles / bikes should be allowed to use the tollways. No one would ever argue that a scooter food cart should be allowed on a tollway, I think that's obvious.

Big displacement bikes? I would imagine that most would say that it's acceptable as they would have the necessary power and acceleration to keep up with the flow of traffic.

What about scooters, step thru's? It depends. If it's a 3 laned tollway, then I would say it's acceptable as slower vehicles should be keeping to the left anyway. In the case of a 2 laned tollway, yes, if there is a hard shoulder for the slower bike to ride on.

But that is not what he said. He said old farmers riding in 3-4 lanes of traffic. Bike bikes could do that as well. Don't put down the small bike a lot if us know how to drive and our bikes don't wake up the neighbors at 3am.

[andreandre]

You see, there is a way.

As an option they could provide eligible bikes with those wireless Easy Pass devices (motorcycle specific, kind of like in Singapore) and dedicate (or build one) gate at every plaza for the bikes only.

Having an easy pass would rule out the possibility of counterfeit stickers, etc. and would speed up the payment process as it's not so easy to fish for change in your pocket while wearing riding gloves.

There always is a way - at least theoretically. But it would be a very long way and many things to do before it could happen imo.

Even if you limit it too new big bikes over 650cc (it would raise a lot of trouble by owners of older and smaller bikes, but OK lets forget this for a moment), how do you want to make sure, that the brakes still work in, lets say, 5 years? Its just a matter of time till there are some unsafe big bikes on tollroads/highways. You know what some thais like to do with their bikes, they modify it till you cannot see what it once was. So you need some kind of reliable regulary checks (e.g. TÜV, or similar) and a reliable control systems (e.g. Police).

If you change laws its better to first think about consequences. Its not just laziness that nothing changes, its the state this country is in that makes any changes so difficult.

Your argument about working brakes/unsafe vehicles would also apply equally to cars, pickup trucks etc. Why single out bikes?

Also, if I'm not mistaken, isn't it that any vehicle above 3 years old needs to be inspected before the road tax can be renewed?

You are indeed mistaken.....

[Gweiloman]

^ mostly agree but there has to be CC limits or else the tollways will get cluttered scooter-food carts and old farmers riding their 2 smoke in all 3-4 lanes of traffic

And what makes you think that big bike owners are the only ones to follow road rules.

I see where you're going with this. You want the right to use tollways while nobody else can.

Maybe you have not been following the thread closely.

What some of us are saying is that "qualified" vehicles / bikes should be allowed to use the tollways. No one would ever argue that a scooter food cart should be allowed on a tollway, I think that's obvious.

Big displacement bikes? I would imagine that most would say that it's acceptable as they would have the necessary power and acceleration to keep up with the flow of traffic.

What about scooters, step thru's? It depends. If it's a 3 laned tollway, then I would say it's acceptable as slower vehicles should be keeping to the left anyway. In the case of a 2 laned tollway, yes, if there is a hard shoulder for the slower bike to ride on.

But that is not what he said. He said old farmers riding in 3-4 lanes of traffic. Bike bikes could do that as well. Don't put down the small bike a lot if us know how to drive and our bikes don't wake up the neighbors at 3am.

Well, I can't answer for him although I have seen cars hogging the right lane on a tollway at 60 kph. I think the point is that we need to stay in the lane appropriate for the speed that we are travelling at.

So for small bikes (and I include my PCX in that category), I would be sticking to the left lane except when I need to overtake a slower vehicle. Immediately upon finishing the overtaking, I would pull back into the left lane. I would not be comfortable doing over 100 kph on the PCX (top speed is only around 110 kph anyway) and would definitely not be in the middle or fast lane with much faster vehicles coming up behind.

You have twice mentioned noisy pipes in this thread. All my bikes with the exception of a dedicated track bike has standard exhaust. Most MSX / KSR / Zoomers I see in Bkk have much louder pipes than my big bikes. So, noisy pipes are not exclusive to big bikes and not all big bikes have noisy pipes. Don't see the relevance about pipes on a discussion about toll ways though.

[Gweiloman]

There always is a way - at least theoretically. But it would be a very long way and many things to do before it could happen imo.

Even if you limit it too new big bikes over 650cc (it would raise a lot of trouble by owners of older and smaller bikes, but OK lets forget this for a moment), how do you want to make sure, that the brakes still work in, lets say, 5 years? Its just a matter of time till there are some unsafe big bikes on tollroads/highways. You know what some thais like to do with their bikes, they modify it till you cannot see what it once was. So you need some kind of reliable regulary checks (e.g. TÜV, or similar) and a reliable control systems (e.g. Police).

If you change laws its better to first think about consequences. Its not just laziness that nothing changes, its the state this country is in that makes any changes so difficult.

Your argument about working brakes/unsafe vehicles would also apply equally to cars, pickup trucks etc. Why single out bikes?

Also, if I'm not mistaken, isn't it that any vehicle above 3 years old needs to be inspected before the road tax can be renewed?

You are indeed mistaken.....

(DELETED)

For the benefit of other noobs and the less experienced, bikes over five years old must undergo regular inspection by official test centres

Edited March 12, 2015 by seedy
troll / flaming

[andreandre]

You guys are really just wasting your time going on and on about this issue and for what??..As the OP hinted that it would be good if things were the same road rule wise as in the west...but very little here in Thailand is same as the west...and you should be very thankful for that...the freedom to do basically as you like on the roads here is a blessing...sure, the BKK tollways bike rules are crazy and make life a bit difficult for the few who choose to live there...if its such a big issue to you that you need to vent on a forum so much...maybe a change of home base is what you need......I moved here recently and sure its confusing at first but with some guidance and local knowledge it really is all a storm in a tea cup.....the fact that once you get away from BKK you really have freedom as i said, compared to the west...hell take a look at the laws in Aus, particularly Queensland..you can barely fart if on a motorbike and you are busted big time.....appreciate the freedoms you have here as a bike rider....it wont last forever, because the laws will eventually change for the worst and only then will you realise how good you have it here right now....Thais do things very differently as most of you well know...(DELETED)..get out and ride and enjoy while you can...life is too short and unpredictable to be arguing about something you have absolutely no control over...

Edited March 12, 2015 by seedy
troll / flaming

[NoshowJones]

(DELETED) how can any riders who, if they keep to the left hand lane, find it hard to get in the right hand lane to make that U turn or right turn? Are they going to break that stupid rule and move out a good bit earlier?

Let's move this to the Bikes forum since it's about motor cycles rather than the bicycles that live in the Cycling forum.

Although I ride a PCX, I agree entirely with the OP. Technically, big bikes have to stay on the frontage road heading and coming from The Don Muang airport area before you hit the elevated tollway.

Even for bikes having to keep to the left, what if the rider wants to do a right hand or U turn further up the road? When is he/she allowed to move to the right? If he/she is on a busy road, they may not even get the chance to make that right hand or U turn. No other vehicles are going to let the bike out to the right hand lane.

This is just more of the low mentality that keeps Thailand a third world country.

What about the mentality of someone who posts nonsense, as high-lighted above?

Left hand, right hand... so difficult to remember which is which!

[Gweiloman]

There always is a way - at least theoretically. But it would be a very long way and many things to do before it could happen imo.

Even if you limit it too new big bikes over 650cc (it would raise a lot of trouble by owners of older and smaller bikes, but OK lets forget this for a moment), how do you want to make sure, that the brakes still work in, lets say, 5 years? Its just a matter of time till there are some unsafe big bikes on tollroads/highways. You know what some thais like to do with their bikes, they modify it till you cannot see what it once was. So you need some kind of reliable regulary checks (e.g. TÜV, or similar) and a reliable control systems (e.g. Police).

If you change laws its better to first think about consequences. Its not just laziness that nothing changes, its the state this country is in that makes any changes so difficult.

Your argument about working brakes/unsafe vehicles would also apply equally to cars, pickup trucks etc. Why single out bikes?

Also, if I'm not mistaken, isn't it that any vehicle above 3 years old needs to be inspected before the road tax can be renewed?

You are indeed mistaken.....

Thank you very much for pointing out my mistake. I have corrected it.

[Keesters]

^ mostly agree but there has to be CC limits or else the tollways will get cluttered scooter-food carts and old farmers riding their 2 smoke in all 3-4 lanes of traffic

And what makes you think that big bike owners are the only ones to follow road rules.

I see where you're going with this. You want the right to use tollways while nobody else can.

Maybe you have not been following the thread closely.

What some of us are saying is that "qualified" vehicles / bikes should be allowed to use the tollways. No one would ever argue that a scooter food cart should be allowed on a tollway, I think that's obvious.

Big displacement bikes? I would imagine that most would say that it's acceptable as they would have the necessary power and acceleration to keep up with the flow of traffic.

What about scooters, step thru's? It depends. If it's a 3 laned tollway, then I would say it's acceptable as slower vehicles should be keeping to the left anyway. In the case of a 2 laned tollway, yes, if there is a hard shoulder for the slower bike to ride on.

But that is not what he said. He said old farmers riding in 3-4 lanes of traffic. Bike bikes could do that as well. Don't put down the small bike a lot if us know how to drive and our bikes don't wake up the neighbors at 3am.

Well, I can't answer for him although I have seen cars hogging the right lane on a tollway at 60 kph. I think the point is that we need to stay in the lane appropriate for the speed that we are travelling at.

So for small bikes (and I include my PCX in that category), I would be sticking to the left lane except when I need to overtake a slower vehicle. Immediately upon finishing the overtaking, I would pull back into the left lane. I would not be comfortable doing over 100 kph on the PCX (top speed is only around 110 kph anyway) and would definitely not be in the middle or fast lane with much faster vehicles coming up behind.

You have twice mentioned noisy pipes in this thread. All my bikes with the exception of a dedicated track bike has standard exhaust. Most MSX / KSR / Zoomers I see in Bkk have much louder pipes than my big bikes. So, noisy pipes are not exclusive to big bikes and not all big bikes have noisy pipes. Don't see the relevance about pipes on a discussion about toll ways though.

No you can't answer for him. @Shurup should come on here and apologise for his rudeness to smaller motorbikes.

Pipes has a part in the thread because as a car driver also I find it quite quiet while travelling on a tollway. So if big bikes are to join us then at least keep your noise to the same level.

I appreciate that not all big bike pipes are equal but many, especially the HDs are deafening. I have been given reasons before that it is so we can be heard and an accident avoided. Well if you consider yourself equal to the car and therefore entitled to use tollways. Be equal with the amount of noise you make. While I agree some small bike may be modified and noisy I have yet to see one out if the factory that would wake me at 3am like the very inconsiderate HDs do. And just so you know there are about 20 motorbikes, all scooters, waves etc, all within 30 metres mostly new, all owned by younger Thais who work at night who never manage to wake me or my neighbours when they return at 2am. It is the 2 HDs that do that. One if the HD owners has managed to persuade his girlfriend to rev rev rev until the Honda wave is screaming before she takes off down the street.

[CharlieH]

There appears to be certain members here that take great delight in trolling with their remarks, bating and generally trying to wind people up.

Let me be clear. There will now be zero tolerance. If you cant abide by the rules, show a little mutual respect for each other, then I hope you enjoy the posting holidays that will follow.

[wantan]

To the Harley problem:

Yes, indeed, especially Harley group rides on tollways/highways, blocking all lanes while going 70kmh and making deathly noise. How to prevent such thing from happening? Exclude Harleys by law? Would become a crazy law

[Shurup]

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^ mostly agree but there has to be CC limits or else the tollways will get cluttered scooter-food carts and old farmers riding their 2 smoke in all 3-4 lanes of traffic

And what makes you think that big bike owners are the only ones to follow road rules.

I see where you're going with this. You want the right to use tollways while nobody else can.

Yes the tollways should be opened for a 1000cc and above bikes only so the few of us can reign the tollways!

No you can't answer for him. @Shurup should come on here and apologise for his rudeness to smaller motorbikes.
Pipes has a part in the thread because as a car driver also I find it quite quiet while travelling on a tollway. So if big bikes are to join us then at least keep your noise to the same level.
I appreciate that not all big bike pipes are equal but many, especially the HDs are deafening. I have been given reasons before that it is so we can be heard and an accident avoided. Well if you consider yourself equal to the car and therefore entitled to use tollways. Be equal with the amount of noise you make. While I agree some small bike may be modified and noisy I have yet to see one out if the factory that would wake me at 3am like the very inconsiderate HDs do. And just so you know there are about 20 motorbikes, all scooters, waves etc, all within 30 metres mostly new, all owned by younger Thais who work at night who never manage to wake me or my neighbours when they return at 2am. It is the 2 HDs that do that. One if the HD owners has managed to persuade his girlfriend to rev rev rev until the Honda wave is screaming before she takes off down the street.

Apologize??

Since you've mentioned you're a car driver, you don't get what we are discussing here. It's not about the engine size but about the bikes being able to safely keep up with the traffic flow, which scooters can't. If you ask me, a CBR/Ninja 250 is already fast enough for this. They can comfortably cruise at the highway speed and have plenty of power left to accelerate out of that speed. These archaic bike laws were written when the largest displacement bike was a Honda Wave, and they never changed the rules.

Your noisy pipes comments I will leave alone as they're not a topic of discussion.

[Shurup]

To the Harley problem:

Yes, indeed, especially Harley group rides on tollways/highways, blocking all lanes while going 70kmh and making deathly noise. How to prevent such thing from happening? Exclude Harleys by law? Would become a crazy law

This simply comes to enforcing the laws that already in place - noise levels and staying in line appropriate for your speed. But we all know it's too much work for the Thai police.

[Gweiloman]

Keep left (or right for US and Continental European drivers) unless overtaking

This law is generally applicable on highways, expressways and dual carriageways (tollway merely means one of these but with toll charges). It does not make sense whatsoever in built up or urban areas.

Underpasses

Ridiculous law. What reason can there be for not allowing bikes (regardless of displacement) for not using underpasses

Bridges / elevated roads

Same as above unless it is deemed to dangerous for bikes (due to low barriers, the possibility of the biker falling over the barrier onto the road below)

[Keesters]

To the Harley problem:

Yes, indeed, especially Harley group rides on tollways/highways, blocking all lanes while going 70kmh and making deathly noise. How to prevent such thing from happening? Exclude Harleys by law? Would become a crazy law

No don't exclude them modify them so they make less noise as I believe many US states are now doing. Would reducing noise pollution be a crazy law. I think not.

Blocking all lanes is probably covered in present law so nothing special for HDs there.

Just noise.

[Keesters]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

^ mostly agree but there has to be CC limits or else the tollways will get cluttered scooter-food carts and old farmers riding their 2 smoke in all 3-4 lanes of traffic

And what makes you think that big bike owners are the only ones to follow road rules.

I see where you're going with this. You want the right to use tollways while nobody else can.

Yes the tollways should be opened for a 1000cc and above bikes only so the few of us can reign the tollways!

No you can't answer for him. @Shurup should come on here and apologise for his rudeness to smaller motorbikes.

Pipes has a part in the thread because as a car driver also I find it quite quiet while travelling on a tollway. So if big bikes are to join us then at least keep your noise to the same level.

I appreciate that not all big bike pipes are equal but many, especially the HDs are deafening. I have been given reasons before that it is so we can be heard and an accident avoided. Well if you consider yourself equal to the car and therefore entitled to use tollways. Be equal with the amount of noise you make. While I agree some small bike may be modified and noisy I have yet to see one out if the factory that would wake me at 3am like the very inconsiderate HDs do. And just so you know there are about 20 motorbikes, all scooters, waves etc, all within 30 metres mostly new, all owned by younger Thais who work at night who never manage to wake me or my neighbours when they return at 2am. It is the 2 HDs that do that. One if the HD owners has managed to persuade his girlfriend to rev rev rev until the Honda wave is screaming before she takes off down the street.

Apologize??

1426165536953.jpg

Since you've mentioned you're a car driver, you don't get what we are discussing here. It's not about the engine size but about the bikes being able to safely keep up with the traffic flow, which scooters can't. If you ask me, a CBR/Ninja 250 is already fast enough for this. They can comfortably cruise at the highway speed and have plenty of power left to accelerate out of that speed. These archaic bike laws were written when the largest displacement bike was a Honda Wave, and they never changed the rules.

Your noisy pipes comments I will leave alone as they're not a topic of discussion.

So you feel it fair to insult one group of riders. Mod opinion please.

[Keesters]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

^ mostly agree but there has to be CC limits or else the tollways will get cluttered scooter-food carts and old farmers riding their 2 smoke in all 3-4 lanes of traffic

And what makes you think that big bike owners are the only ones to follow road rules.

I see where you're going with this. You want the right to use tollways while nobody else can.

Yes the tollways should be opened for a 1000cc and above bikes only so the few of us can reign the tollways!

No you can't answer for him. @Shurup should come on here and apologise for his rudeness to smaller motorbikes.

Pipes has a part in the thread because as a car driver also I find it quite quiet while travelling on a tollway. So if big bikes are to join us then at least keep your noise to the same level.

I appreciate that not all big bike pipes are equal but many, especially the HDs are deafening. I have been given reasons before that it is so we can be heard and an accident avoided. Well if you consider yourself equal to the car and therefore entitled to use tollways. Be equal with the amount of noise you make. While I agree some small bike may be modified and noisy I have yet to see one out if the factory that would wake me at 3am like the very inconsiderate HDs do. And just so you know there are about 20 motorbikes, all scooters, waves etc, all within 30 metres mostly new, all owned by younger Thais who work at night who never manage to wake me or my neighbours when they return at 2am. It is the 2 HDs that do that. One if the HD owners has managed to persuade his girlfriend to rev rev rev until the Honda wave is screaming before she takes off down the street.

Apologize??

1426165536953.jpg

Since you've mentioned you're a car driver, you don't get what we are discussing here. It's not about the engine size but about the bikes being able to safely keep up with the traffic flow, which scooters can't. If you ask me, a CBR/Ninja 250 is already fast enough for this. They can comfortably cruise at the highway speed and have plenty of power left to accelerate out of that speed. These archaic bike laws were written when the largest displacement bike was a Honda Wave, and they never changed the rules.

Your noisy pipes comments I will leave alone as they're not a topic of discussion.

Totally missing the point. Never said anything about which bikes should or should not be allowed. Said that if bikes, probably big did make it to the tollways then there noise limits should be the same as cars. Read again, this time properly. A valid comment for a topic headed "riding laws for larger cycles."

You don't have to agree but you do have to be civil and not rude and offensive as before.

Edited March 12, 2015 by Keesters

[Gweiloman]

Totally missing the point. Never said anything about which bikes should or should not be allowed. Said that if bikes, probably big did make it to the tollways then there noise limits should be the same as cars. Read again, this time properly. A valid comment for a topic headed "riding laws for larger cycles."

You don't have to agree but you do have to be civil and not rude and offensive as before.

Come now gentleman, I think this argument is barking up the wrong tree and will likely get the thread closed if it keeps heading south like this.

I read carefully the posts and responses of both of you and I think there has been some classic miscommunication.

keesters asked Shurup for an apology for insulting small bike riders but then, Shurup never insulted small bike riders in the first instance.

"mostly agree but there has to be CC limits or else the tollways will get cluttered scooter-food carts and old farmers riding their 2 smoke in all 3-4 lanes of traffic"

does not constitute an insult, merely an observation. I think it's pedantic to jump on the phrase "there has to be CC limits" when the actual point is about incompetent riders not keeping to their respective lanes. Of course there are many competent small bike riders, especially on this board. Some of us have been riding for over 30 years and are still living to tell the tale - if we were incompetent, we would not be around today.

So, I don't think Shurup need to apologise for anything. But the misunderstanding about the above statement led to keesters stating that Shurup wants the right to us tollways while nobody else can. However, once you accept that Shurup was not insulting small bike riders, then keesters statement is no longer valid.

Regarding noisy exhausts. An exhaust is as noisy in a small soi as it is on the tollway. So, noise really does not come into play when discussing about which vehicles are allowed or not on a tollway.

I would however like to see vehicles (mostly pickups, trucks and buses) belching out huge plumes of toxic fumes being impounded though.

Can someone remind me what this topic is about?

[macknife]

You have a real hang up with noise don't you... Perhaps you should have your overly sensitive ears checked.

Yes I know some bikes are noisy esp' HDs but not much worse, if at all, than the big noisy trucks that use the tollways. Anyway, it's hardly an issue as tollways aren't usually in residential areas.

The simple fact is, the laws are outdated and any bike over 250 should be allowed. There aren't that many and it wouldn't take much to train tollway staff or police(who are actually quite knowledgeable about bikes) as to what these bike models are. Yes some bikes are modified to look bigger but it's illegal to modify your bike so they simply won't be allowed on.

[Shurup]

Totally missing the point. Never said anything about which bikes should or should not be allowed. Said that if bikes, probably big did make it to the tollways then there noise limits should be the same as cars. Read again, this time properly. A valid comment for a topic headed "riding laws for larger cycles."

You don't have to agree but you do have to be civil and not rude and offensive as before.

Don't get stuck on the topic title and read the OP. Nothing about the engine noise! We are talking about the left lane rule, tollways and under/overpass, that's it. If you're not happy with noisy HDs then start your own topic to discuss it and don't derail this one.

Thank you!

[Keesters]

Noise is an important factor when it comes to the enjoyment of travelling on a tollway. If big noisy bikes ever get allowed to use them then part of that enjoyment is taken away and I shall probably use them far less. If you do not see noise as a factor then that only shows your true colors in having no respect for your fellow road users. Goodnight.

Edited March 12, 2015 by Keesters

[seedy]

CLOSED - at the request of the OP