Solar Power

[IMHO]

Monthly electric bill 600-900baht depending season/months.

I wonder how long you plan to live and 36 hours a day aircon

That's a pretty low bill... we average exactly 10x that

[orpheus454]

Actually when you're as close to the equator as we are the tilt becomes a bit more complex

One of the many calculators on the net http://solarelectricityhandbook.com/solar-angle-calculator.html

Or don't tilt at all, and use the budget for angling brackets for extra panels.

http://www.businessspectator.com.au/article/2015/2/5/solar-energy/10-dumb-myths-solar-installers?utm_source=exact&utm_medium=email&utm_content=1124703&utm_campaign=cs_daily&modapt=

[khunPer]

I just got the entry level kitty set: 3,695 baht

That's going to produce some 800+ kWh to just equal investment, not including interest and maintenance, such as the storage battery.

Solar cells are great if you don't have grid available, otherwise you have to calculate carefully and consider interest loss and maintenance. I did some detailed calculation some years back when building my house, considering to place solar cells on the roof and yes, the investment is lower now, perhaps half but at that time the payback period would be in the level of 15+ years (rather 18 years). Began to think about lifetime of the equipment. Many of the popular European private installations are based on tax relief and overpriced electric from so-called green energy.

If some posters have realistic investment calculation by now for Thailand, including maintenance and other eventualities, that would be interesting to see...

In this case, the pay-back-time is one day, the day I install it. It is a gimmick and as such it doesnt make financial sense.

Sure right – 3,695 baht is just an investment in some fun, just as my payback calculation.

I was merely thinking in more serious general terms, like when investing some 200k or 300k baht in a system, when asking if someone had realistic calculations...

[IMHO]

I just got the entry level kitty set: 3,695 baht

That's going to produce some 800+ kWh to just equal investment, not including interest and maintenance, such as the storage battery.

Solar cells are great if you don't have grid available, otherwise you have to calculate carefully and consider interest loss and maintenance. I did some detailed calculation some years back when building my house, considering to place solar cells on the roof and yes, the investment is lower now, perhaps half but at that time the payback period would be in the level of 15+ years (rather 18 years). Began to think about lifetime of the equipment. Many of the popular European private installations are based on tax relief and overpriced electric from so-called green energy.

If some posters have realistic investment calculation by now for Thailand, including maintenance and other eventualities, that would be interesting to see...

In this case, the pay-back-time is one day, the day I install it. It is a gimmick and as such it doesnt make financial sense.

Sure right – 3,695 baht is just an investment in some fun, just as my payback calculation.

I was merely thinking in more serious general terms, like when investing some 200k or 300k baht in a system, when asking if someone had realistic calculations...

I did some math earlier in this thread, based on an average of just 3.5 hours of harvesting per day. Most vendors work on much higher than this, but as you can see from the solar map I posted, a lot depends on just where you are located, and how well the system is optimized.

If your willing/able to join the solar rooftop program, it all becomes much easier though - domestic systems <= 10kWh get a feed-in tarrif of 7.x Baht/unit, which brings the payback time down to 3-4 years.

[khunPer]

I just today saw a new Danish calculation of investment in Solar Cell electric – very popular in Northern Europe, but partly based on tax exemption – perhaps partial convertible...

The sample used is a 5kW installation based on 5,000kWh annual production (may be higher in Thailand), and a yearly effect decrease in solar cells of 0.5%. The installation cost is close to 400,000 thb (may be lower here) and the pay back price per kWh hour equivalent to little more than 5 thb (may likely be around 4 thb if meter runs backwards here). Furthermore an annual price increase on 2.8% per kWh is included in the calculations.

With 40% own consumption and no loan, the payback time is calculated to about 16 years, and with a 5% loan to ca. 20 years.

It shall be noted, that “own consumption” may be based on equivalent to a buying price of around 10 thb and up per kWh, whilst in Thailand you rather pay between 4 and 5 thb per kWh.

If you use less than 40% yourself and borrow money for installation, the pay back time can exceed 30 years.

The source, which is a very comprehensive article by Danish government organization Energy Service in the newspaper Jyllands-Posten, is unfortunately is in Danish language.

[Anthony5]

I just today saw a new Danish calculation of investment in Solar Cell electric – very popular in Northern Europe, but partly based on tax exemption – perhaps partial convertible...

The sample used is a 5kW installation based on 5,000kWh annual production (may be higher in Thailand), and a yearly effect decrease in solar cells of 0.5%. The installation cost is close to 400,000 thb (may be lower here) and the pay back price per kWh hour equivalent to little more than 5 thb (may likely be around 4 thb if meter runs backwards here). Furthermore an annual price increase on 2.8% per kWh is included in the calculations.

With 40% own consumption and no loan, the payback time is calculated to about 16 years, and with a 5% loan to ca. 20 years.

It shall be noted, that “own consumption” may be based on equivalent to a buying price of around 10 thb and up per kWh, whilst in Thailand you rather pay between 4 and 5 thb per kWh.

If you use less than 40% yourself and borrow money for installation, the pay back time can exceed 30 years.

The source, which is a very comprehensive article by Danish government organization Energy Service in the newspaper Jyllands-Posten, is unfortunately is in Danish language.

With a pay back period of 30 or even 20 years the whole project doesn't make sense.

The panels nor the inverter have a prolonged life expectancy of 20 years, and that is even without the chance of damages or defects.

Solar energy isn't viable if not subsidized by the government.

Keep in mind that the solar panels are already subsidized by the Chinese government before they reach the market, otherwise they would be more expensive.

[IMHO]

I just today saw a new Danish calculation of investment in Solar Cell electric – very popular in Northern Europe, but partly based on tax exemption – perhaps partial convertible...

The sample used is a 5kW installation based on 5,000kWh annual production (may be higher in Thailand), and a yearly effect decrease in solar cells of 0.5%. The installation cost is close to 400,000 thb (may be lower here) and the pay back price per kWh hour equivalent to little more than 5 thb (may likely be around 4 thb if meter runs backwards here). Furthermore an annual price increase on 2.8% per kWh is included in the calculations.

With 40% own consumption and no loan, the payback time is calculated to about 16 years, and with a 5% loan to ca. 20 years.

It shall be noted, that “own consumption” may be based on equivalent to a buying price of around 10 thb and up per kWh, whilst in Thailand you rather pay between 4 and 5 thb per kWh.

If you use less than 40% yourself and borrow money for installation, the pay back time can exceed 30 years.

The source, which is a very comprehensive article by Danish government organization Energy Service in the newspaper Jyllands-Posten, is unfortunately is in Danish language.

OK, now halve the price of the system - a 5kW grid tie is only going to cost 200K Baht installed here, and then give it almost double the kWh per sqm by installing it in Thailand, and I think you'll find it's pretty close to my 7 year payback calcs (no sell meter) or 4 years (with sell meter)

But I agree - it's highly unlikely I would consider doing rooftop solar in Denmark

Edited March 4, 2015 by IMHO

[IMHO]

Keep in mind that the solar panels are already subsidized by the Chinese government before they reach the market, otherwise they would be more expensive.

Are you sure about that? Current PV prices are around $0.90 per watt, with practically everyone in the industry predicting they drop below $0.40 per watt by/in 2017 (which is why I'm still fence sitting - it's been around THB30/watt retail for about 1.5-2 years now).

That's a helluva lot of subsidizing!

Edited March 4, 2015 by IMHO

[ExpatOilWorker]

I just today saw a new Danish calculation of investment in Solar Cell electric – very popular in Northern Europe, but partly based on tax exemption – perhaps partial convertible...

The sample used is a 5kW installation based on 5,000kWh annual production (may be higher in Thailand), and a yearly effect decrease in solar cells of 0.5%. The installation cost is close to 400,000 thb (may be lower here) and the pay back price per kWh hour equivalent to little more than 5 thb (may likely be around 4 thb if meter runs backwards here). Furthermore an annual price increase on 2.8% per kWh is included in the calculations.

With 40% own consumption and no loan, the payback time is calculated to about 16 years, and with a 5% loan to ca. 20 years.

It shall be noted, that “own consumption” may be based on equivalent to a buying price of around 10 thb and up per kWh, whilst in Thailand you rather pay between 4 and 5 thb per kWh.

If you use less than 40% yourself and borrow money for installation, the pay back time can exceed 30 years.

The source, which is a very comprehensive article by Danish government organization Energy Service in the newspaper Jyllands-Posten, is unfortunately is in Danish language.

OK, now halve the price of the system - a 5kW grid tie is only going to cost 200K Baht installed here, and then give it almost double the kWh per sqm by installing it in Thailand, and I think you'll find it's pretty close to my 7 year payback calcs (no sell meter) or 4 years (with sell meter)

But I agree - it's highly unlikely I would consider doing rooftop solar in Denmark

If I had the space (and lived in a house), I would set up a 10 KW system, that would on average produce 1,000 kWh/month which is plenty for a comfortable life. Thrown in 10 ea. 120 Ah batteries just to give the feel of independence and a few panels with another couple of batteries running a 12 V system for garden and pool lighting.

Total cost would be around 600,000 baht, it would be a great toy and be an awesome feeling to producing your own power, even for an oil-man like me.

[Anthony5]

Keep in mind that the solar panels are already subsidized by the Chinese government before they reach the market, otherwise they would be more expensive.

Are you sure about that? Current PV prices are around $0.90 per watt, with practically everyone in the industry predicting they drop below $0.40 per watt by/in 2017 (which is why I'm still fence sitting - it's been around THB30/watt retail for about 1.5-2 years now).

That's a helluva lot of subsidizing!

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-08-28/eu-says-probe-finds-chinese-solar-panel-makers-got-subsidies

US and EU are all imposing high import tariffs on solar panels and at the same time drastically reducing subsidies on installation, how do you think the prices will be able to drop a lot more taking all this into account.

Looked at the share price of PV manufacturers over the past 3 years? Those few that aren't bankrupt yet are trading at a fraction of what they were 3 years ago. Can't be from the high sales figures.

The only renewable energy that is sustainable these days is wind energy.

[yankee99]

Whats the lifespan of the batteries and cost for replacement. How many batteries are needed for a 5kw system? Do the batteries need some sort of maintenance?

[Anthony5]

Whats the lifespan of the batteries and cost for replacement. How many batteries are needed for a 5kw system? Do the batteries need some sort of maintenance?

I estimate the lifespan of a deep cycle battery in Thailand at about 5 years because of the high ambient temperatures, normal batteries much less, but a deep cycle battery is also considerable more expensive.

Since they are lead acid batteries they require the same maintenance as the one in your car.

http://www.solar-electric.com/deep-cycle-battery-faq.html#Lifespan%20of%20Batteries

These are some typical (minimum - maximum) typical expectations for batteries if used in deep cycle service. There are so many variables, such as depth of discharge, maintenance, temperature, how often and how deep cycled, etc. that it is almost impossible to give a fixed number.

• Starting: 3-12 months
• Marine: 1-6 years
• Golf cart: 2-7 years
• AGM deep cycle: 4-8 years
• Gelled deep cycle: 2-5 years
• Deep cycle (L-16 type etc): 4-8 years
• Rolls-Surrette premium deep cycle: 7-15 years
• Industrial deep cycle (Crown and Rolls 4KS series): 10-20+ years.
• Telephone (float): 2-20 years. These are usually special purpose "float service", but often appear on the surplus market as "deep cycle". They can vary considerably, depending on age, usage, care, and type.
• NiFe (alkaline): 5-35 years
• NiCad: 1-20 years

[Forkinhades]

^ If your going the battery route, then they will need replacing every 3 years max IMHO.

Grid Tie without batteries is probably the only way to quite possibly get your money back after 6 years.

I did some calcs with the UK system, and discarding the government incentive, the payback was about 17 years. Was a few years ago mind. Things have not moved on that quickly with this type of technology yet........

[Forkinhades]

^ was still writing post as Anthony5 replied.

His response is more definitive than mine in regards to batteries.

[IMHO]

Whats the lifespan of the batteries and cost for replacement. How many batteries are needed for a 5kw system? Do the batteries need some sort of maintenance?

Battery lifespan is mostly about depth of discharge - everything else is completely secondary. if you only discharge your batteries 20% before recharging, they will live for more cycles than if discharged to 50%, for example.

Yes, some lead acid batteries will perform better than others, but they all have curves similar to this ^

In solar power situations, it's pretty fair to assume 1 cycle = 1 day.

In any case, you should never target more than 80% discharge, otherwise you risk spontaneous failure.

Note: that chart is from a very high quality, solar-specific battery. The kinds of batteries most commonly available in TH don't have the same cyclic performance, but they do have the same basic curve.

Edited March 5, 2015 by IMHO

[IMHO]

Keep in mind that the solar panels are already subsidized by the Chinese government before they reach the market, otherwise they would be more expensive.

Are you sure about that? Current PV prices are around $0.90 per watt, with practically everyone in the industry predicting they drop below $0.40 per watt by/in 2017 (which is why I'm still fence sitting - it's been around THB30/watt retail for about 1.5-2 years now).

That's a helluva lot of subsidizing!

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-08-28/eu-says-probe-finds-chinese-solar-panel-makers-got-subsidies

US and EU are all imposing high import tariffs on solar panels and at the same time drastically reducing subsidies on installation, how do you think the prices will be able to drop a lot more taking all this into account.

Looked at the share price of PV manufacturers over the past 3 years? Those few that aren't bankrupt yet are trading at a fraction of what they were 3 years ago. Can't be from the high sales figures.

The only renewable energy that is sustainable these days is wind energy.

There's a lot of conflicting viewpoints out there:

http://cleantechnica.com/2013/06/19/forecast-cost-of-pv-panels-to-drop-to-0-36watt-by-2017/

http://reneweconomy.com.au/2015/solar-grid-parity-world-2017

http://www.businessspectator.com.au/article/2015/1/21/solar-energy/trinas-chief-scientist-dont-expect-solar-price-plunge

http://www.solarplaza.com/article/deutsche-bank-md-expects-grid-parity-ahead-for-mex

But at the end of it, no-one's really arguing that prices won't drop, just by how much and when.

Your link is from 2013 BTW, and yes, everyone noted there seemed to be a push/policy to try and knock out non-sino competition back then

Edited March 5, 2015 by IMHO

[IMHO]

Whats the lifespan of the batteries and cost for replacement. How many batteries are needed for a 5kw system? Do the batteries need some sort of maintenance?

One more thing - battery design capacity is all about the load supported. i.e. If the load happens during sunlight harvesting hours, you don't need much battery capacity at all, for example.

LifePo4 batteries are also now quickly gaining supporters for off-grid use, and they cyclic / depth of discharge properties are much more favorable than traditional lead acid. A 3.2V 100Ah LifePo4 cell can be picked up for around USD $90, and has up to 5x the cyclic life of lead acid. Quality unknown

[Anthony5]

Whats the lifespan of the batteries and cost for replacement. How many batteries are needed for a 5kw system? Do the batteries need some sort of maintenance?

One more thing - battery design capacity is all about the load supported. i.e. If the load happens during sunlight harvesting hours, you don't need much battery capacity at all, for example.

LifePo4 batteries are also now quickly gaining supporters for off-grid use, and they cyclic / depth of discharge properties are much more favorable than traditional lead acid. A 3.2V 100Ah LifePo4 cell can be picked up for around USD $90, and has up to 5x the cyclic life of lead acid. Quality unknown

Could you give a link to such a cheap lifepo4 battery, because the cheapest I could find, from unreliable manufacturers, was 199$, and you would still need 4 of those for the equivalent 12V 100aH lead acid.

800$ not really a bargain, isn't it?

[IMHO]

Whats the lifespan of the batteries and cost for replacement. How many batteries are needed for a 5kw system? Do the batteries need some sort of maintenance?

One more thing - battery design capacity is all about the load supported. i.e. If the load happens during sunlight harvesting hours, you don't need much battery capacity at all, for example.

LifePo4 batteries are also now quickly gaining supporters for off-grid use, and they cyclic / depth of discharge properties are much more favorable than traditional lead acid. A 3.2V 100Ah LifePo4 cell can be picked up for around USD $90, and has up to 5x the cyclic life of lead acid. Quality unknown

Could you give a link to such a cheap lifepo4 battery, because the cheapest I could find, from unreliable manufacturers, was 199$, and you would still need 4 of those for the equivalent 12V 100aH lead acid.

800$ not really a bargain, isn't it?

Depends on how many cycles you get out of it

Search ebay, you'll find several vendors.

[Anthony5]

Whats the lifespan of the batteries and cost for replacement. How many batteries are needed for a 5kw system? Do the batteries need some sort of maintenance?

One more thing - battery design capacity is all about the load supported. i.e. If the load happens during sunlight harvesting hours, you don't need much battery capacity at all, for example.

LifePo4 batteries are also now quickly gaining supporters for off-grid use, and they cyclic / depth of discharge properties are much more favorable than traditional lead acid. A 3.2V 100Ah LifePo4 cell can be picked up for around USD $90, and has up to 5x the cyclic life of lead acid. Quality unknown

Could you give a link to such a cheap lifepo4 battery, because the cheapest I could find, from unreliable manufacturers, was 199$, and you would still need 4 of those for the equivalent 12V 100aH lead acid.

800$ not really a bargain, isn't it?

Depends on how many cycles you get out of it

Search ebay, you'll find several vendors.

Several? I found exactly 2, one doesn't ship to Thailand and the other was indeed 90$ with an additional 400$ in shipping.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PTI-3-2v-100ah-lifepo4-prismatic-Lithium-battery-for-e-bike-golf-cart-EV-/181676518612?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a4cc3acd4

All suppliers on Chinese e-commerce sites als charge extra ordinary shipping costs.

I still wait for your link to the 90$ ones, as for sure I want to pick up a few at that price, since lifepo4 are very good batteries.

As for my comparison to lead acid was about the power they can store. a 3.2V 100aH can store 25% of the power of a 12V 100 aH.

A 12V 100 aH deep cycle lead acid battery cost 4.300 Baht delivered to your doorstep.

Edited March 5, 2015 by Anthony5

[IMHO]

Several? I found exactly 2, one doesn't ship to Thailand and the other was indeed 90$ with an additional 400$ in shipping.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PTI-3-2v-100ah-lifepo4-prismatic-Lithium-battery-for-e-bike-golf-cart-EV-/181676518612?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a4cc3acd4

All suppliers on Chinese e-commerce sites als charge extra ordinary shipping costs.

I still wait for your link to the 90$ ones, as for sure I want to pick up a few at that price, since lifepo4 are very good batteries.

As for my comparison to lead acid was about the power they can store. a 3.2V 100aH can store 25% of the power of a 12V 100 aH.

A 12V 100 aH deep cycle lead acid battery cost 4.300 Baht delivered to your doorstep.

Yeah OK, they were there with cheap shipping prices to TH a couple of weeks ago. Maybe wait a few days - alternatively go search the other usual suspects - aliexpress, dhgate etc..

As for your comparison to lead acid, two points:

LifePo4 can be discharged to 80% with no big effect in cyclic life

LifePo4 can have a cyclic life 5x more than lead acid

oh and a 3rd, LifePo4 stores much more energy per cubic whatever, than lead acid, so if space is a concern, you can store more energy in less physical space.

So to compare, you have to consider the fact you're buying less capacity to achieve the same result, and it will last longer before the cells need replacing. I'm not ready to stand by any manufacturer claims though

Edited March 5, 2015 by IMHO

[Anthony5]

Several? I found exactly 2, one doesn't ship to Thailand and the other was indeed 90$ with an additional 400$ in shipping.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PTI-3-2v-100ah-lifepo4-prismatic-Lithium-battery-for-e-bike-golf-cart-EV-/181676518612?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a4cc3acd4

All suppliers on Chinese e-commerce sites als charge extra ordinary shipping costs.

I still wait for your link to the 90$ ones, as for sure I want to pick up a few at that price, since lifepo4 are very good batteries.

As for my comparison to lead acid was about the power they can store. a 3.2V 100aH can store 25% of the power of a 12V 100 aH.

A 12V 100 aH deep cycle lead acid battery cost 4.300 Baht delivered to your doorstep.

Yeah OK, they were there with cheap shipping prices to TH a couple of weeks ago. Maybe wait a few days - alternatively go search the other usual suspects - aliexpress, dhgate etc..

Did you read the line in my post?

All suppliers on Chinese e-commerce sites also charge extra ordinary shipping costs.

They weren't there a few weeks ago and they wont be there in the next few weeks. A lifepo4 battery isn't cheap and the transportation cost big $ since they aren't allowed to be shipped by air.

[yankee99]

I have always found shipping by sea a lot cheaper then by air

[IMHO]

Several? I found exactly 2, one doesn't ship to Thailand and the other was indeed 90$ with an additional 400$ in shipping.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PTI-3-2v-100ah-lifepo4-prismatic-Lithium-battery-for-e-bike-golf-cart-EV-/181676518612?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a4cc3acd4

All suppliers on Chinese e-commerce sites als charge extra ordinary shipping costs.

I still wait for your link to the 90$ ones, as for sure I want to pick up a few at that price, since lifepo4 are very good batteries.

As for my comparison to lead acid was about the power they can store. a 3.2V 100aH can store 25% of the power of a 12V 100 aH.

A 12V 100 aH deep cycle lead acid battery cost 4.300 Baht delivered to your doorstep.

Yeah OK, they were there with cheap shipping prices to TH a couple of weeks ago. Maybe wait a few days - alternatively go search the other usual suspects - aliexpress, dhgate etc..

Did you read the line in my post?

All suppliers on Chinese e-commerce sites also charge extra ordinary shipping costs.

They weren't there a few weeks ago and they wont be there in the next few weeks. A lifepo4 battery isn't cheap and the transportation cost big $ since they aren't allowed to be shipped by air.

OK, here's the first hit I just got:

http://www.dhgate.com/product/rechargebal-type-lifepo4-battery-for-3-2v/215003520.html

USD $1068.07 for 3200 Wh delivered. Soldering not included

Keep searching and you'll likely find better, or pre-soldered

Edited March 5, 2015 by IMHO

[Anthony5]

I have always found shipping by sea a lot cheaper then by air

Makes some sense, but how do you explain that also on Aliexpress and DHgate they charge 3 - 400 $ to ship a 100$ battery?

Maybe it has to do with the insurance?

[IMHO]

Several? I found exactly 2, one doesn't ship to Thailand and the other was indeed 90$ with an additional 400$ in shipping.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PTI-3-2v-100ah-lifepo4-prismatic-Lithium-battery-for-e-bike-golf-cart-EV-/181676518612?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a4cc3acd4

All suppliers on Chinese e-commerce sites als charge extra ordinary shipping costs.

I still wait for your link to the 90$ ones, as for sure I want to pick up a few at that price, since lifepo4 are very good batteries.

As for my comparison to lead acid was about the power they can store. a 3.2V 100aH can store 25% of the power of a 12V 100 aH.

A 12V 100 aH deep cycle lead acid battery cost 4.300 Baht delivered to your doorstep.

Yeah OK, they were there with cheap shipping prices to TH a couple of weeks ago. Maybe wait a few days - alternatively go search the other usual suspects - aliexpress, dhgate etc..

Did you read the line in my post?

All suppliers on Chinese e-commerce sites also charge extra ordinary shipping costs.

They weren't there a few weeks ago and they wont be there in the next few weeks. A lifepo4 battery isn't cheap and the transportation cost big $ since they aren't allowed to be shipped by air.

OK, here's the first hit I just got:

http://www.dhgate.com/product/rechargebal-type-lifepo4-battery-for-3-2v/215003520.html

USD $1068.07 for 3200 Wh delivered. Soldering not included

Keep searching and you'll likely find better, or pre-soldered

Compared to your lead acid:

$1068 buys about 2500 Wh usable in LifePo4 (@80% DOD).

8 of your lead acid cost about the same money, and have 9600Wh - of which you're going to have 1920Wh - 4800wh usable, depending on the DOD/cyclic life you aim for.

Based on manufacturer claims, the LifePo4 will give up to 5x the cycles though.

As noted, I'm not going to stand by any of these claims though

[Anthony5]

Several? I found exactly 2, one doesn't ship to Thailand and the other was indeed 90$ with an additional 400$ in shipping.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PTI-3-2v-100ah-lifepo4-prismatic-Lithium-battery-for-e-bike-golf-cart-EV-/181676518612?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a4cc3acd4

All suppliers on Chinese e-commerce sites als charge extra ordinary shipping costs.

I still wait for your link to the 90$ ones, as for sure I want to pick up a few at that price, since lifepo4 are very good batteries.

As for my comparison to lead acid was about the power they can store. a 3.2V 100aH can store 25% of the power of a 12V 100 aH.

A 12V 100 aH deep cycle lead acid battery cost 4.300 Baht delivered to your doorstep.

Yeah OK, they were there with cheap shipping prices to TH a couple of weeks ago. Maybe wait a few days - alternatively go search the other usual suspects - aliexpress, dhgate etc..

Did you read the line in my post?

All suppliers on Chinese e-commerce sites also charge extra ordinary shipping costs.

They weren't there a few weeks ago and they wont be there in the next few weeks. A lifepo4 battery isn't cheap and the transportation cost big $ since they aren't allowed to be shipped by air.

OK, here's the first hit I just got:

http://www.dhgate.com/product/rechargebal-type-lifepo4-battery-for-3-2v/215003520.html

USD $1068.07 for 3200 Wh delivered. Soldering not included

Keep searching and you'll likely find better, or pre-soldered

You're joking right?

So you just consider it a matter of soldering a few wires, and right than you can use it?

By the way, does anyone else experience the same incredible lag to access ebay and DHgate for the past few weeks?

[IMHO]

You're joking right?

So you just consider it a matter of soldering a few wires, and right than you can use it?

By the way, does anyone else experience the same incredible lag to access ebay and DHgate for the past few weeks?

Hey! no changing the argument mid stream like that - that's not fair

[Anthony5]

Yeah OK, they were there with cheap shipping prices to TH a couple of weeks ago. Maybe wait a few days - alternatively go search the other usual suspects - aliexpress, dhgate etc..

Did you read the line in my post?

All suppliers on Chinese e-commerce sites also charge extra ordinary shipping costs.

They weren't there a few weeks ago and they wont be there in the next few weeks. A lifepo4 battery isn't cheap and the transportation cost big $ since they aren't allowed to be shipped by air.

OK, here's the first hit I just got:

http://www.dhgate.com/product/rechargebal-type-lifepo4-battery-for-3-2v/215003520.html

USD $1068.07 for 3200 Wh delivered. Soldering not included

Keep searching and you'll likely find better, or pre-soldered

Compared to your lead acid:

$1068 buys about 2500 Wh usable in LifePo4 (@80% DOD).

8 of your lead acid cost about the same money, and have 9600Wh - of which you're going to have 1920Wh - 4800wh usable, depending on the DOD/cyclic life you aim for.

Based on manufacturer claims, the LifePo4 will give up to 5x the cycles though.

As noted, I'm not going to stand by any of these claims though

I was talking about deep cycle batteries in my quote.

http://www.solar-electric.com/deep-cycle-battery-faq.html#Lifespan%20of%20Batteries

Deep cycle batteries are designed to be discharged down as much as 80% time after time, and have much thicker plates.

[yankee99]

I have always found shipping by sea a lot cheaper then by air

Makes some sense, but how do you explain that also on Aliexpress and DHgate they charge 3 - 400 $ to ship a 100$ battery?

Maybe it has to do with the insurance?

My guess a pallet of batteries would be the same shipping as one battery about 400 by sea. A direct quote from the seller would be needed