Electrical wiring in View Talay 1 & 2 condo units

[joesanunu]

And ground/earth is available, so nobody needs pipes.

I wonder actually what is not clear now that we know that ground/earth is available ?

You can ask the office for confirmation, they know what they are talking about.

What's not clear to me is *how* a ground/earth is available in the VT1 buildings:

• No earth wires in the infrastructure provided by the building. (Only live and neutral.)
• Cannot use sprinkler pipes. (Illegal and dangerous.)
• Cannot use water supply pipes. (PVC)

Other than drilling random holes looking for rebar and hoping it makes a continuous contact path to the soil, what is the solution I'm so obviously missing?

Who do I ask at the office? The ladies at the front desk couldn't even understand the log-on process for the WiFi system enough to get a technician to check the WiFi router on my floor. Is there a specific person on the maintenance staff to ask for who is competent enough with electrical wiring to provide grounding/earthing a condo unit?

Certainly there is a ground available in the utility room next to the lift shaft. Can't an electrician snake a wire in?

[sotsira]

The PVC pipes that you refer to are the stack pipes that are used for drainage only.

The steel pipes that i'm referring to are the water supply pipes that are 3/4 & 1/2 inch

in diameter that are fed in to each condo from the water meter.

These can be used as a suitable ground to earth as they are all inter connected from the

top of the building to the ground floor.

The later built VT5 C&D buildings across the road from VT2A were the first VT condo's that

were constructed with earthing cabling throughout and to each individual unit with all having

3pin sockets from shell purchase.

I have seen no evidence VT5 is grounded.

If you pop a ceiling panel up and look in each corridor there's a thick gauge green cable that runs

in to each unit and then in to the consumer unit.

From there a thinner cable is run to each outlet socket inside each unit.

[wpcoe]

What's not clear to me is *how* a ground/earth is available in the VT1 buildings:

• No earth wires in the infrastructure provided by the building. (Only live and neutral.)
• Cannot use sprinkler pipes. (Illegal and dangerous.)
• Cannot use water supply pipes. (PVC)

Other than drilling random holes looking for rebar and hoping it makes a continuous contact path to the soil, what is the solution I'm so obviously missing?

Who do I ask at the office? The ladies at the front desk couldn't even understand the log-on process for the WiFi system enough to get a technician to check the WiFi router on my floor. Is there a specific person on the maintenance staff to ask for who is competent enough with electrical wiring to provide grounding/earthing a condo unit?

Certainly there is a ground available in the utility room next to the lift shaft. Can't an electrician snake a wire in?

That sounds like it would work. I don't recall the utility room, but assume it must be locked? I'd like to see/test a grounded outlet in there.

[wpcoe]

I'm staying in a VT2B studio this week and popped up a ceiling tile in the bathroom. The water heater has NO ground/earth wire Only two single-strand wires emanate from it and they lead toward the consumer unit, which has no Safe-T-Cut either. Isn't that rather dangerous?

Looking around in the cavity above the ceiling tiles, you can't see much, because above that level it's four solid walls so you can't see beyond the perimeter of the bathroom, but I suddenly remembered what Crossy had said about maybe getting lucky and finding an I-beam to attach a ground/earth wire.

My knowledge of high-rise construction methods is pretty skanty. For those not familiar with the View Talay buildings in Jomtien, there are two 15-floor View Talay 1 buildings about 20 years old, and there are two 18(?)-floor View Talay 2 buildings about 15 years old. I guess such buildings would have steel beams, but not sure where they'd be:

1. Do the squarish vertical beams at the corners of the rooms have steeel beams in them, or just a lot of rebar?
2. Do the horizontal concrete beams have steel beams in them?
3. Are there exposed steel beams, or are they all encased in concrete?
4. Am I correct that it might be easier to drill through concrete to make contact with a beam (once I know where one is) than to drill random holes looking for rebar that might not even have a continuous path to the ground?

[joesanunu]

I'm staying in a VT2B studio this week and popped up a ceiling tile in the bathroom. The water heater has NO ground/earth wire Only two single-strand wires emanate from it and they lead toward the consumer unit, which has no Safe-T-Cut either. Isn't that rather dangerous?

Looking around in the cavity above the ceiling tiles, you can't see much, because above that level it's four solid walls so you can't see beyond the perimeter of the bathroom, but I suddenly remembered what Crossy had said about maybe getting lucky and finding an I-beam to attach a ground/earth wire.

My knowledge of high-rise construction methods is pretty skanty. For those not familiar with the View Talay buildings in Jomtien, there are two 15-floor View Talay 1 buildings about 20 years old, and there are two 18(?)-floor View Talay 2 buildings about 15 years old. I guess such buildings would have steel beams, but not sure where they'd be:

• Do the squarish vertical beams at the corners of the rooms have steeel beams in them, or just a lot of rebar?
• Do the horizontal concrete beams have steel beams in them?
• Are there exposed steel beams, or are they all encased in concrete?
• Am I correct that it might be easier to drill through concrete to make contact with a beam (once I know where one is) than to drill random holes looking for rebar that might not even have a continuous path to the ground?

They make beans from rebar and concrete here.

Does the rebar reach earth? Maybe.

[Crossy]

They make beans from rebar and concrete here.

Does the rebar reach earth? Maybe.

Is that why the beans give me such bad wind?

Seriously, I would be more surprised if the re-bar didn't reach ground. With such a massive interconnected grid even with poor (wired) joints between the bars a path to ground is more likely than not. In our house the roof structure is actually a better ground than the 2m rod I bashed in (measured with an earth resistance meter).

If one is wondering about how the re-bar in the piles is electrically earthed Google "Ufer ground", very popular (or even required) by US building codes.

[wpcoe]

Well, looks like it'll be back to "drilling for rebar!" Is there a science to locating rebar encased on concrete so you find it in one drilling?

In the building I'm in now, I opened random hallway cabinets that grant access to the plumbing shaft to see if *maybe* someone had run a ground/earth wire down to the dirt, but, no dice.

[RichCor]

Well, looks like it'll be back to "drilling for rebar!" Is there a science to locating rebar encased on concrete so you find it in one drilling?

In the building I'm in now, I opened random hallway cabinets that grant access to the plumbing shaft to see if *maybe* someone had run a ground/earth wire down to the dirt, but, no dice.

I would hope you'd be able to rent some type of sensor device to help locate rebar or steel beam/girder.

Read somewhere about someone downloading an smartphone app that repurposed the magnetic sensor used for compass direction into a Near-Field Metal detector. My smartphone doesn't have the magnetic north chip so I couldn't try it out to see how well it works (or if it works at all)

Google Search: Smartphone metal detector

As for drilling random holes hoping to strike gold (or ground) ...I'm cringing at the thought of anyone drilling holes in a load-bearing structural support column or header. Let me know before you begin so I can crawl into a corner, close my eyes, fold my arms around myself and whimper.

Though something tells me you won't have been the first owner in one of these buildings to do this. I guess the issue depends on what's the primary element holding up the structure: the concrete, the rebar, or an actual steel beam finished with concrete.

Visiting Chiang Mai this week I've had a chance to look at the construction of several older buildings ... I've seen a few places where rebar is just left penetrating out from a few horizontal concrete headers. I always believed that was a bad idea (rust intrusion compromising the structure), but if you did have one just sticking out you could test it against Neutral and see if it would provide a working networked (interconnected) Ground.

[sotsira]

Well, looks like it'll be back to "drilling for rebar!" Is there a science to locating rebar encased on concrete so you find it in one drilling?

In the building I'm in now, I opened random hallway cabinets that grant access to the plumbing shaft to see if *maybe* someone had run a ground/earth wire down to the dirt, but, no dice.

VT2 A&B are plumbed with galvanised steel pipes throughout the building.

It would be much easier to run an earth from the heater to one of these steel pipes.

That's the way it's done by most of the other condo owners that have safety in mind

together with an 32AMP RCD (residual current device) fitted in to the supply LIVE & NUETRAL

wires to the water heater.

Here's some info about the difference between RCD's & ELCB's

http://electrical-engineering-portal.com/working-principle-of-earth-leakage-circuit-breaker-elcb-and-residual-current-device-rcd

Here's a diagram:

And here's what an RCD looks like:

[wpcoe]

I would hope you'd be able to rent some type of sensor device to help locate rebar or steel beam/girder.

In the USA I could easily find a tool rental place, but honestly I've never seen/heard of one in Thailand. Are there any (consumer friendly ones, not industrial tractor rentals...) here?

Read somewhere about someone downloading an smartphone app that repurposed the magnetic sensor used for compass direction into a Near-Field Metal detector. My smartphone doesn't have the magnetic north chip so I couldn't try it out to see how well it works (or if it works at all)

Google Search: Smartphone metal detector

Those apps look promising. One, though, said: "Usage is simple: Open this app on your device, and move it around. The magnetic field level will constantly fluctuate. That's it!" and my immediate thought was, "Great. If that's the case how do you know when you've located metal?"

As for drilling random holes hoping to strike gold (or ground) ...I'm cringing at the thought of anyone drilling holes in a load-bearing structural support column or header. Let me know before you begin so I can crawl into a corner, close my eyes, fold my arms around myself and whimper.

Though something tells me you won't have been the first owner in one of these buildings to do this. I guess the issue depends on what's the primary element holding up the structure: the concrete, the rebar, or an actual steel beam finished with concrete.

I posted that idea a couple times wondering if I were off base thinking drilling multiple holes in structural concrete might be a Bad Thing, but you're the first to bite. Thanks for the confirmation.

Visiting Chiang Mai this week I've had a chance to look at the construction of several older buildings ... I've seen a few places where rebar is just left penetrating out from a few horizontal concrete headers. I always believed that was a bad idea (rust intrusion compromising the structure), but if you did have one just sticking out you could test it against Neutral and see if it would provide a working networked (interconnected) Ground.

In the studio where I popped up the bathroom ceiling, I was half-hoping to see exposed rebar, but didn't. Maybe after the entire unit's ceiling were ripped out, the odds would increase, but as you say, exposed rebar is not really a Good Thing to have. Just, in my case, a Convenient Thing to use.

[wpcoe]

VT2 A&B are plumbed with galvanised steel pipes throughout the building.

It would be much easier to run an earth from the heater to one of these steel pipes.

That's the way it's done by most of the other condo owners that have safety in mind

together with an 32AMP RCD (residual current device) fitted in to the supply LIVE & NUETRAL

wires to the water heater.

But, what happens a few years down the road if the building replaces the metal pipes with PVC like VT1 did a couple years back? (I wonder what their reason was, actually.)

Thanks for the further info about RCDs & ELCBs. One of these days I just might make a permanent grasp of the idea, rather than having to continually review it.