Paypal, experiences, special checks

[Nuddy]

Recently I had a good and bad experience with Paypal

In the end it came down in my favour so I am not bitching about it.

However I believe I need to warn others about the situation so they don't get caught.
Paypal has been great for me for years. Recently I had some angst.

About a year ago I bought some software on the internet. It was a clean and sort your windows computer and so forth. In fact I bought about 5 or 6 different programs from the same company all about 6 bucks each. One year rolled by and they demanded payment for renewal of the software, not at the original price but much inflated price and saying they had authority to charge me for it. I protested of course but it was processed any how causing USD 89.92 to my linked credit card with Paypal.

Much argument followed but to give Paypal the the quedos they eventually refunded the money to me. Thank you Paypal.

However I must warn others.

The company I bought the software from said I authorised a renewal. That set up an authority in Paypal to pay the bill the year later.

If you use Paypal you must constantly check inside Paypal that they have not set up automatic year in year out payments for you.

They don't warn you. They just charge it. You cannot talk to Paypal via email because the computers reply.
If you reply to an email from Paypal they won't hear it. They say its an un monitored email...thats bullshit of course.

I really want to say what I think of that but I am under scrutiny because of my strong words about them already.

Just check in profile and there are 2 places there that you can cancel these evil things. Just a tip as I am not critiquing due to the legal challenge.

Regards

[Sandman77]

A automatic renew of a payment after a while never happens automaticly , the user must agree this , in the first payment , if not agreed nothing will be happen!

Be informed that software , when it was only a update after a year , is a virtual item , and not protected by sellers protection , also no tracking number avalible , this is why you got your money back! For more pp question plz send pm!

[gerry123]

i have just had a post deleted i wrote about a sponsor of TV who tried the same con as you talk of

[slightlychilled]

I think you'll find that the automatic renewal has nothing to do with Paypal but more to do with T&C's of the software company you bought from.

One thing I find really unacceptable with Paypal is that if I sell something I am not allowed to charge the buyer the credit handling fee Paypal charges me. Yet if I use my credit card to pay for something such as hotels etc I am invariably charged a percentage fee on top by the vendor for credit card handling.

[Nuddy]

hello Sandman

Seems that you are in the know about my topic

Look yes I got my money back

But you have to understand how frustrating it is to get a computer reply to tell you do this do that stuff mate

Its not cool

I am assume you have a connection to Paypal.

If so tell them from me to get an email address to a human'

Why do we have to phone?

I had 10 days of upset. WAs only 92 bucks but they made it so difficult I had to persist.

Hey why should I send PM ...lets have it out here on the forum

Sandman77 is a Paypal executive?

[Nuddy]

Gerry I am not sure if you are on the same topic as me and the Paypal executive Sandman77

I thought this was a forum

Looks like Sandman has crept in to trick us. Why should I send PM??

[innerspace]

I am very familiar with paypal from all of merchant, customer and developers sides.

While I understand what you are saying and the frustration it caused you are 100% wrong in that you werent warned, you were. You may not have read the warning but it was displayed at the time of purchase.

Subscriptions will be clearly marked with the initial and future amounts which may be different.

Future payments is more risky with any amount able to deduct at any time, same as a direct debit. Only do to trustworthy companies.

Bottom line is read the itemised list of what you are approving before every purchase, same as you read the terms before signing a contract.

[Nuddy]

Ok I am here again

Innerspace is another Paypal expert.

You are correct in some things but calling me wrong...hehe...is wrong.

I did go back to the original purchase order and reply email....and ...get this ....it didn't tell me they would auto renew.

You know this is so

Don't be telling untruths here or I'll bring up the original emails after purchase.

If I have to do that then I am into you, You too are a Paypal executive

[balo]

What is the name of this "cleaner" company ? Most of them are scams and offer you malware that looks like a cleaning program.

[Nuddy]

Are you sure you want to know?

IObit

[Nuddy]

I thought it was good gear

Well it did work

I just found it unsatisfactory for my requirements'

[Sandman77]

It's up to you you send me a pm or not I got many pms in a week with specify questions!

Another scenario , what should happen when you have a automatic payment renew on paypal or on App Store, and you chancel or change your credit card?

Payment would fail , but I could imagine that paypal could begin set your account in minus , and force you to pay, german paypal very unfriendly often comes with inkasso company within last 10 years claiming the money back!

Iam not sure the do the same way here in thailand , in case off, not pay a open minus balance here in thailand when paypal it self is operating under Singapore law?

[DogNo1]

In my experience, I always get a renewal notice around two weeks before the renewal is charged from all of the companies (which I suppose I can't name.) In the case of a credit card expiring before the renewal date, I get a request to supply a valid credit card number. Charging you for an unauthorized renewal is indeed disputable. I very rarely use Pay Pal and instead pay directly by credit card. I have never had a credit card issuer refuse to refund a disputed charge. I think that the fact that all of the legitimate companies send me a renewal notice in advance speaks to the fact that unauthorized charges CAN be disputed successfully. Some unscruplous companies may try to trick you with unauthorized charges but these CAN be disputed successfully. BTW, be careful with Alibaba. Some of their merchants will charge you but not ship the item. The charges are refunded if you dispute them but it's a pain to do so. I select the merchant carefully if I buy from Alibaba.

[Sandman77]

Bought only one time on alibaba full of fake products cheap quality!

[Sandman77]

A unauthorized credit card payment you always can claim back at your bank or visa

[katana]

Amazon do this with their Amazon Prime delivery service as well.

You agree to it thinking it's a one off, free next day delivery .

When you sign up for it, it's not made clear payments will be taken out at a later date, unless you cancel.

[Jessi]

A friend some years back had his Paypal account frozen for 6 months with over $10,000. in it all because he had his bank account in the U.S and he logged in from Thailand.

Paypal sucks...http://www.paypalsucks.com/newforums/

If the link is deleted I can PM it to you.

[chingching]

A friend some years back had his Paypal account frozen for 6 months with over $10,000. in it all because he had his bank account in the U.S and he logged in from Thailand.

Paypal sucks...http://www.paypalsucks.com/newforums/

If the link is deleted I can PM it to you.

This is a paypal scam, that has happened to me often enough. Although I am a paypal customer since 1998, I have my account frozen periodically for "random security check" or "suspicious activity" or whatever.

Paypal has 161 million accounts. Let's say they freeze 1% of their accounts at a time. If each account has an average of $100. that's 1.6million dollars that paypal can collect interest on, with no expenses for them..

I recently changed my paypal address to a u.s.a. address, and immediately got frozen. When I tried to login, the login would not work and kept asking me to verify my email, and when I did that, it just kept repeating. When I emailed paypal for advice they told me to log in, and go to "blah blah" . This happened NINE times. The last time they told me to login to get a OTP , that I could use to call them. Finally they gave me a phone number.

[Keesters]

I've seen a few of these reoccurring payment in PP. Never had a problem with them see them, know about them, remove them. Buyer (PP user) beware. It seems anything goes on the Internet from "free" until you get to the shipping/packing charges to the miriad of get rich quick schemes for $x.xx that suck you in for more and more money later. Desperately in need of regulation to protect consumers. But don't take away our freedom of speech.

[BB24]

Paypal is NOT a global company, and they are therefore not subject to any single 'rules' of customer engagement - nor do they have a set of global company policies on customer egagement. Paypal in each region is essentially a 'franchise' and they each 'own' all customers in their own geographic region. Paypal in Thailand operates out of Singapore, and they are very different to Paypal in USA or AUS/NZ or Germany etc etc etc.

Some people are clearly referring to a different Paypal practice under different regulations, than Paypal in Thailand, when they are 'advising' the OP. I find Paypal in Thailand to be very 'deceptive' and IMO its business practicies would be stamped on in USA or AUS/NZ. Likewise, Sellers can be very deceptive (especially Alibaba as noted) and they will make their purchasing look like a one off payment, and the only way you can see that it is not, is to look very closely and critically at what they put in front of you.

And that is my advice to the OP (and others). Take the view that Paypal and ALL people and companies related to internet purchasing, are two-faced lying cheats - even if you think they are not. That way you will not get 'taken for a ride' so easily and will probably not get 'ripped off'. After a while of interacting this way, you will get better and better at spotting the scams and the thieves and the liars. And you will also stop thinking that everyone 'should' be nice and honest and fair (and talk to you). For those you do trust - verify - look for their mistake (they all make them).

The internet is new and dealing with it is like walking into the old Roman Forum (markets) when there were no 'consumer' laws to help you. The only thing you have is the sign on top of the entrance gate - Caveat Emptor. Which means - Buyer Beware (you are on your own if you enter here).

[BB24]

PS - I have a Paypal account here and another one back home, plus Google, Authorise.net, Clickbank - looking at Stripe.

I use each as appropriate, and I never allow any one to be more than $100 to be in credit.

I also have 'buying' accounts on Ebay (one here and one back home), Alibaba, Lazada, Amazon, etc etc - and again I use what is appropriate.

Never keep all your eggs in one basket - spread them around and if you do drop/lose one, then you can continue with the others (while all the kings men do their job).

Anyone else like that movie? Ooops - off topic - sorry

[NoshowJones]

I am very familiar with paypal from all of merchant, customer and developers sides.

While I understand what you are saying and the frustration it caused you are 100% wrong in that you werent warned, you were. You may not have read the warning but it was displayed at the time of purchase.

Subscriptions will be clearly marked with the initial and future amounts which may be different.

Future payments is more risky with any amount able to deduct at any time, same as a direct debit. Only do to trustworthy companies.

Bottom line is read the itemised list of what you are approving before every purchase, same as you read the terms before signing a contract.

Probably written in small print or some sort of legal jargon to mislead people. I goes on all the time, even sometimes when you try to book a hotel room.

[NoshowJones]

Ok I am here again

Innerspace is another Paypal expert.

You are correct in some things but calling me wrong...hehe...is wrong.

I did go back to the original purchase order and reply email....and ...get this ....it didn't tell me they would auto renew.

You know this is so

Don't be telling untruths here or I'll bring up the original emails after purchase.

If I have to do that then I am into you, You too are a Paypal executive

Paypal is always best to be avoided, they messed me about something terrible when I tried to open a simple account.

[Brit_Doggie]

No issues with paypal it's the software company that requires annual fees to keep the software legit,just like if you use avg business internet security etc

Now why you think i love the pb among others if it's there to be had get it cough cough.

[Keesters]

I am very familiar with paypal from all of merchant, customer and developers sides.

While I understand what you are saying and the frustration it caused you are 100% wrong in that you werent warned, you were. You may not have read the warning but it was displayed at the time of purchase.

Subscriptions will be clearly marked with the initial and future amounts which may be different.

Future payments is more risky with any amount able to deduct at any time, same as a direct debit. Only do to trustworthy companies.

Bottom line is read the itemised list of what you are approving before every purchase, same as you read the terms before signing a contract.

Probably written in small print or some sort of legal jargon to mislead people. I goes on all the time, even sometimes when you try to book a hotel room.

And may not be in your first language.

[Keesters]

Ok I am here again

Innerspace is another Paypal expert.

You are correct in some things but calling me wrong...hehe...is wrong.

I did go back to the original purchase order and reply email....and ...get this ....it didn't tell me they would auto renew.

You know this is so

Don't be telling untruths here or I'll bring up the original emails after purchase.

If I have to do that then I am into you, You too are a Paypal executive

Paypal is always best to be avoided, they messed me about something terrible when I tried to open a simple account.

Don't have a problem with them. Got shutdown twice. Once when hacked and reoccurring payment was placed on my account. PP caught it and froze me while they investigated. When unfreezing a short time later they apologized. Second time was accessing PP from Cambodia. That set of all the alarms for them and they froze account and requested ID. Sent them photo of my Thai DL and they unfroze saying that they wouldn't freeze again if I make regular visits there. All in all I find their customer service for Thai PP in Singapore excellent. Something the Thai service companies could learn from.

I have friends in US and NZ who get PP transactions in tens of thousands of dollars per year. They swear by it. Their general opinion is you'll only get trouble from PP if you give them trouble.

Edited March 9, 2015 by Keesters

[ozyjon]

I no longer use e-bay or pay pal, the old scams and

new scams continue to evolve, i don't have the time

or patience to deal with it,, my consumerism is

dwindling by the day.

[timendres]

I think you'll find that the automatic renewal has nothing to do with Paypal but more to do with T&C's of the software company you bought from.

One thing I find really unacceptable with Paypal is that if I sell something I am not allowed to charge the buyer the credit handling fee Paypal charges me. Yet if I use my credit card to pay for something such as hotels etc I am invariably charged a percentage fee on top by the vendor for credit card handling.

You have to build this fee into your price, and I see many companies do exactly that. Some call it a "processing fee" and tack it onto the bill. Others just build it into the price without highlighting the fact.

[Equalizer]

I think you'll find that the automatic renewal has nothing to do with Paypal but more to do with T&C's of the software company you bought from.

One thing I find really unacceptable with Paypal is that if I sell something I am not allowed to charge the buyer the credit handling fee Paypal charges me. Yet if I use my credit card to pay for something such as hotels etc I am invariably charged a percentage fee on top by the vendor for credit card handling.

So cover the expense in the sales price

[Equalizer]

Paypal is NOT a global company, and they are therefore not subject to any single 'rules' of customer engagement - nor do they have a set of global company policies on customer egagement. Paypal in each region is essentially a 'franchise' and they each 'own' all customers in their own geographic region. Paypal in Thailand operates out of Singapore, and they are very different to Paypal in USA or AUS/NZ or Germany etc etc etc.

Some people are clearly referring to a different Paypal practice under different regulations, than Paypal in Thailand, when they are 'advising' the OP. I find Paypal in Thailand to be very 'deceptive' and IMO its business practicies would be stamped on in USA or AUS/NZ. Likewise, Sellers can be very deceptive (especially Alibaba as noted) and they will make their purchasing look like a one off payment, and the only way you can see that it is not, is to look very closely and critically at what they put in front of you.

And that is my advice to the OP (and others). Take the view that Paypal and ALL people and companies related to internet purchasing, are two-faced lying cheats - even if you think they are not. That way you will not get 'taken for a ride' so easily and will probably not get 'ripped off'. After a while of interacting this way, you will get better and better at spotting the scams and the thieves and the liars. And you will also stop thinking that everyone 'should' be nice and honest and fair (and talk to you). For those you do trust - verify - look for their mistake (they all make them).

The internet is new and dealing with it is like walking into the old Roman Forum (markets) when there were no 'consumer' laws to help you. The only thing you have is the sign on top of the entrance gate - Caveat Emptor. Which means - Buyer Beware (you are on your own if you enter here).

Complete rubbish. Consumer rights are embraced by companies like PayPal simply because they have no choice. Most transactions are done via credit card and so it makes no difference that PayPal is simply the payment gateway, the consumer has the rights afforded by the credit card they paid with. This is why from November last year you now have 180 days to dispute a transaction in PayPal rather than the 45 days before. This brings it in line with most credit card companies. It is quite the opposite and i would say that businesses are at more risk doing business on line than the consumer.