"Freeway hop"

[ClareQuilty]

As some may have noticed from a previous thread, I recently purchased an old Toyota Soluna, about a 96 or 97 model. The car is doing great, but driving it at 100 kph recently I discovered that at this high speed (or higher) it has a mild case of 'freeway hop' - that is, tire or wheel hop. It seems to come from the front, and it isn't detectable any lower speeds.

The previous owner suggested new shocks all around, and another friend suggested rotating the tires. I realize it could be anything in the suspension, tires, etc., but anyone have any idea what are the most likely things - things to check first anyway?

[eeeya]

I was driving a truck in Australia looking down at a car to my left doing this.. as I was watching the wheel hopping, I witnessed the front end collapse and car skid out of control...

Personally I wouldnt be driving the car hopping at all and take it to at least a wheel/ tyre shop if not mechanic

[ClareQuilty]

Yeah that's the idea, I will take it to a shop and want to be prepared with some ideas of things for them to check - which is why I ask my question here, eeeya.

[WarpSpeed]

Try getting the balance checked first, then I'd suspect shocks if that doesn't solve your problem.

Check your tire wear accordingly to see if your tires show any of the wear above and that will give you a better idea of the problem, discounting the alignment and inflation examples for the moment as that is not likely to cause hop. But the shock example will have a cupping effect across the tread where the tire is bouncing on the road surface while driving high speeds. Actually the cupping may also likely be more on one shoulder or the other, usually more on the inside shoulder due to alignment and road grade.

Edited March 8, 2015 by WarpSpeed

[HeijoshinCool]

Slightly bent wheel form hitting a pothole. Tire balance.

[ClareQuilty]

OK, thanks guys, I will take it in for a wheel balancing soon, and perhaps at that time they can determine if one of the wheels is bent. Is there any benefit in rotating the tires while its in for the balancing? We used to think rotating was pretty important back in the day, but I'm not really familiar with these little front-wheel drive vehicles - do they require rotations?

[kartman]

So how much did the Soluna cost 45,000 ? or 65,000 ? so we can see how used prices are going.

[cumgranosalum]

Whatever you mean by hop - you need to get your tires checked.

take you car to a tire shop......

First check the the tires themselves - if they appear to be OK then have ALL the wheels balance and aligned.

If there is still a problem after this check your steering and suspension....this would include your shocks.

You might as well rotate - once the wheels are off it costs nothing to put them back in different places.

Balancing and alignment are cheap - a few hundred baht - shocks, suspension/steering parts can get more costly.......

it may be that they find a load of stuff that needs doing.

Get a couple of quotes before shelling out.

Maybe try one o the big franchises like Cockpit and get another quote from a local small business.

Edited March 9, 2015 by cumgranosalum

[cumgranosalum]

Try getting the balance checked first, then I'd suspect shocks if that doesn't solve your problem.

Check your tire wear accordingly to see if your tires show any of the wear above and that will give you a better idea of the problem, discounting the alignment and inflation examples for the moment as that is not likely to cause hop. But the shock example will have a cupping effect across the tread where the tire is bouncing on the road surface while driving high speeds. Actually the cupping may also likely be more on one shoulder or the other, usually more on the inside shoulder due to alignment and road grade.

....and if you can't see any of this? - Well - it certainly doesn't mean all clear - so don't rely on these pictures get it done properly.

Edited March 9, 2015 by cumgranosalum

[arthurwait]

Dampers are probably gone. I doubt an owner of a car that old cheap would have had them changed in years.

Tyres maybe deformed or hardened, wheels bent ?

Check all suspension mountings, links and strut tops for rust. They may have gone or weak enough to flex at higher speed/bump input.

Oh and springs and spring seats for rust failure.

Suspension bushes as well.

Edited March 9, 2015 by arthurwait

[Tywais]

Two items that immediately come to mind. Tire over pressure but most likely shocks.

[arthurwait]

Two items that immediately come to mind. Tire over pressure but most likely shocks.

You just had to didn't you ?

[Tywais]

Two items that immediately come to mind. Tire over pressure but most likely shocks.

You just had to didn't you ?

Have to get Transam something to do.

[ClareQuilty]

Thanks guys, did a little research online and it sounds like shocks are by far the most likely culprit, and since this is what the seller suggested, it might support the gathering evidence that he's an honest fellow (my colleague after all) - he kept telling me the car needed shocks, even though I hadn't test driven it fast enough to notice the 'hop' before buying it. Oh, Kartman you asked how much I finally paid - 65,000.

Now, the other thing the seller told me was that four new shocks would cost 3,000 baht all in. What do you fellows think of that claim? Sounded just a little on the cheap side to me, but it is a very economical model for parts and repair, I've heard.

[Tywais]

Now, the other thing the seller told me was that four new shocks would cost 3,000 baht all in. What do you fellows think of that claim? Sounded just a little on the cheap side to me, but it is a very economical model for parts and repair, I've heard.

That price is quite low and suspect 2nd hand or rebuilt. Found price for shocks for Ford Fiesta at 1650 each. Another US site showed Vios at $120 - $140 per shock. My previous old car I used 2nd hand on several items and always worked out well. Could also be copycat parts but at that age probably will be good for a long time either way.

[casualbiker]

I got a ford ranger done all round for about 3k. So it's doable.

[casualbiker]

Just checked B Quik..probably about 6k for all 4.

http://www.b-quik.com/en/promotion.php

[cumgranosalum]

don't get secondhand shocks!! Make sure they ARE gone first.....(the chances seem pretty high) - a rule of thumb test is to press down on the front o the car and see what happens next - if when you let go it returns to position and virtually stays there - then they may well be OK - if the car continues to bounce up and down in ever decreasing bounces, then they are pretty much gone.

you should still rebalance all the wheels and align the steering - if this is done correctly, it will be like driving a new car!

[ClareQuilty]

Just bounced it a bit today. It seemed to me the back ones were OK, but the front ones not good. I'll take it in tomorrow and encourage the idea of just doing the front ones, and rotating and balancing/aligning the tires.

[cumgranosalum]

I'd be inclined to change ALL the shocks if I was going to change any - old shocks can become less effective gradually, so you could end up with good shocks on the front and worn ones on the back which is just about as bad as none on the front and worn on the back - if that IS the situation at present.

Check bushes, steering and the rest of the suspension too.

You balance the WHEELS (and tires), not just the tires.

[Bung]

Shocks. Your basically driving just on springs hence the bouncing. No damping. Get your brake pads and suspension and steering bushings checked while you are at it.

[Tywais]

I'd be inclined to change ALL the shocks if I was going to change any

I also agree with that, change all 4 if it ends up the shocks are the problem.

[ClareQuilty]

I went on an hour's journey today, and the car drove pretty well at 80-90 kph on the way. I tried to show the bounce to the fellow in the passenger seat by going 100 kph at times, but to be honest it wasn't very noticable or consistent. After the journey, I took it to B-Quick, where I had them remove the tires in order to rotate and spin balance them (a 300 baht operation). I'd already had another shop look at the shocks, so I knew the diagnosis was they were all bad, but B-Quick also comfirmed this. They also showed me that the front brake pads, while not yet gone, were very low. While the tires were off I had a look at those, and in my opinion, while they showed no signs of unusual wear patterns, they didn't look like they had a tremendous amount of tread left either.

The other shop had quoted 8,600 for a full set of 4 new shocks (or struts as they're called), while B-Quick quoted about 6,000. The first shop uses Kyocera or whatever, so presumably a better brand than what B-Quick was offering. In any case, this was much higher than I'd been hoping for/lead to believe, and I hadn't the money to spend so will delay the shocks till after income-tax time, but will probably have the brakes done soon (was a bit shocked to find those were to be 1,250 baht per each!)

After the spin balancing and rotation I must say the car drove very well on the way home, just as it had before but perhaps slightly better, straight, true, no vibrations, and at least with my fat friend in the passenger seat helping to weigh us down, not much repetition of the 'freeway-hop' at 90-100.

[cumgranosalum]

I don't know the car - probably "struts" on the front and ordinary shocks on the rear......... shop about a bit - I'm sure you'll get a better price. What region are you in?

Edited March 13, 2015 by cumgranosalum

[casualbiker]

I would double check what BQuick use.. they are a large chain which could explain the cheaper prices. According to that price list I posted they show as "Toyota " brand. The brakes are more important than the shocks.. Definitely do the brake pads... the shocks can wait a while!

Edited March 13, 2015 by casualbiker

[cumgranosalum]

I don't see the reasoning behind this.

yuor break pads are "OK" at present? - yet your socks are not?

Have you had the balancing and alignment done?

[wprime]

First do a wheel alignment to see if that's your problem, B Quik will usually do this for free.

[cumgranosalum]

First do a wheel alignment to see if that's your problem, B Quik will usually do this for free.

BTW - this is a good way to check the bushes etc as if there is excessive wear, your wheels won't align properly.

[ClareQuilty]

Yes, had the tire rotation and balancing done, car drives fine. Just a slight hop at high speeds due to bad shocks. Will replace when I can afford it - struts or shocks, whatever they are, they're pricier than I expected.

The brakes are down to 1/4 of whatever they're supposed to be, according to the mechanic. Not gone, but in need of imminent replacement. Perhaps this week or next. Seems brake pads are pretty expensive as well.

[kartman]

How much are the pads ? how much is your budget for running a car?