Time to banish plastic bags in Thailand?

[BKKSnowBird]

Don't forget about straws!! You must get a straw for every drink you buy a 711.

I use to give them back but my gf now collects them. Lol

[h90]

make the bag 0.7 Baht and return give 0.4 Baht.

50 % of the problem fixed.

[fey]

Someone told me a few years ago that 7/ll alone were getting through something like 90,000,000 plastic bags a day. Now that is one big figure, 32,850,000,000 a year! I questioned those figures and personally don't think they are far off ..... but then I have never been good at maths!

its enough for continual round trips to the moon on a zip line.

something about the 'service' annoying aspect in thailand requires the bag more then other countries. i chuck it or flick it back on the counter

could write on online petition and send it to execs at 7-11 when signatures reached a million or so. tell clerks to not use bags for small single items unless requested as a caveat during training. just this could have a huge effect.

Edited March 10, 2015 by fey

[lopburi3]

Bangladesh? One might suspect this exceedingly poor countries motive a bit as about the only product they have is jute so have a reason to ban plastic.

Yes it should be easier to reuse and recycle plastic and obviously there is always room for more personable responsibility - but not many are in favor of a return to paper bags (I lived through that era). And for much of the world paper is in scarce supply.

[Keesters]

Someone told me a few years ago that 7/ll alone were getting through something like 90,000,000 plastic bags a day. Now that is one big figure, 32,850,000,000 a year! I questioned those figures and personally don't think they are far off ..... but then I have never been good at maths!

its enough for continual round trips to the moon on a zip line.

something about the 'service' annoying aspect in thailand requires the bag more then other countries. i chuck it or flick it back on the counter

Chuck or flick

That would be considered more than a little rude. Why not just learn how to say you don't want a bag in Thai. I've found most checkout personnel happy to oblige.

[RT555]

It will never happen in 50 years in Thailand.

Because nobody in the government sector will make any money doing it.....As we know it's all about padding the bank account.

[Keesters]

Bangladesh? One might suspect this exceedingly poor countries motive a bit as about the only product they have is jute so have a reason to ban plastic.

Yes it should be easier to reuse and recycle plastic and obviously there is always room for more personable responsibility - but not many are in favor of a return to paper bags (I lived through that era). And for much of the world paper is in scarce supply.

Jute bags are excellent. Paper just doesn't do it.

[fey]

Someone told me a few years ago that 7/ll alone were getting through something like 90,000,000 plastic bags a day. Now that is one big figure, 32,850,000,000 a year! I questioned those figures and personally don't think they are far off ..... but then I have never been good at maths!

its enough for continual round trips to the moon on a zip line.

something about the 'service' annoying aspect in thailand requires the bag more then other countries. i chuck it or flick it back on the counter

Chuck or flick

That would be considered more than a little rude. Why not just learn how to say you don't want a bag in Thai. I've found most checkout personnel happy to oblige.

because i dont like having to explain why i dont need a small plastic bag 10 times a day

[Keesters]

Someone told me a few years ago that 7/ll alone were getting through something like 90,000,000 plastic bags a day. Now that is one big figure, 32,850,000,000 a year! I questioned those figures and personally don't think they are far off ..... but then I have never been good at maths!

its enough for continual round trips to the moon on a zip line.

something about the 'service' annoying aspect in thailand requires the bag more then other countries. i chuck it or flick it back on the counter

Chuck or flick

That would be considered more than a little rude. Why not just learn how to say you don't want a bag in Thai. I've found most checkout personnel happy to oblige.

because i dont like having to explain why i dont need a small plastic bag 10 times a day

Good god how lazy. It is not an explanation it is a request. Very quick takes 2 seconds like saying thank you. Or don't you say that either when getting your next Chang or 99 baht brekkie.

[elgordo38]

There isn't enough wood waste for everyone to have paper bags. Japan buys wood waste (sawdust, bark) from Canada and the US by the shipload.

As UG said, that wood waste is valuable in construction and other places.

I have no idea why people think that paper grows on trees, LOL.

Manufacturing paper is a dirty process that uses a lot of minerals and chemicals. It's hard on the environment.

The US has enough land to have tree farms solely for the purpose of growing pulp for paper, and they are profitable. These are fast growing poplars. I'll attach a pic of one in E. Oregon along the Columbia River. This is private for-profit industry, owned by a large paper manufacturing company. This is 25,000 acres - (about 60,000 rai?)

Used plastic bags are valuable and are bought by recyclers to make many plastic consumer items.

The problem is the Thai culture. There's no culture against litter and no culture of recycling. It takes decades to change that.

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Sorry to bust your balloon but we unfortunately do not have decades left. We are at the tipping point right now.

[h90]

It will never happen in 50 years in Thailand.

Because nobody in the government sector will make any money doing it.....As we know it's all about padding the bank account.

maybe greenpeace could pay a few million under the table.....But on the other hand, greenpeace is already very similar to the Thai government....also only filling the own pockets....

[h90]

There isn't enough wood waste for everyone to have paper bags. Japan buys wood waste (sawdust, bark) from Canada and the US by the shipload.

As UG said, that wood waste is valuable in construction and other places.

I have no idea why people think that paper grows on trees, LOL.

Manufacturing paper is a dirty process that uses a lot of minerals and chemicals. It's hard on the environment.

The US has enough land to have tree farms solely for the purpose of growing pulp for paper, and they are profitable. These are fast growing poplars. I'll attach a pic of one in E. Oregon along the Columbia River. This is private for-profit industry, owned by a large paper manufacturing company. This is 25,000 acres - (about 60,000 rai?)

Used plastic bags are valuable and are bought by recyclers to make many plastic consumer items.

The problem is the Thai culture. There's no culture against litter and no culture of recycling. It takes decades to change that.

b.jpg

bo.jpg

boa.jpg

Sorry to bust your balloon but we unfortunately do not have decades left. We are at the tipping point right now.

You must be very young, because we are on the tipping point since 40 years.

Since 40 years I hear in a few years there won't be oil anymore, all trees will die, ozone will kill us while the ozone hole makes us blind and the sea will increase so many cm that we are all under water.

In fact nothing happened.

The plastic bags are an annoyance and spoil everything but they won't crash the planet.

[timber]

In B.C. Canada. Bring your own bag, get a brown paper bio-degradable bag or buy a plastic bag.

Got to be practical. If you want a bag pay for it. Give the customer a chance to refuse a plastic bag.

Educate the kids. When the kids are properly educated can have a significant influence on the parents.

[Keesters]

There isn't enough wood waste for everyone to have paper bags. Japan buys wood waste (sawdust, bark) from Canada and the US by the shipload.

As UG said, that wood waste is valuable in construction and other places.

I have no idea why people think that paper grows on trees, LOL.

Manufacturing paper is a dirty process that uses a lot of minerals and chemicals. It's hard on the environment.

The US has enough land to have tree farms solely for the purpose of growing pulp for paper, and they are profitable. These are fast growing poplars. I'll attach a pic of one in E. Oregon along the Columbia River. This is private for-profit industry, owned by a large paper manufacturing company. This is 25,000 acres - (about 60,000 rai?)

Used plastic bags are valuable and are bought by recyclers to make many plastic consumer items.

The problem is the Thai culture. There's no culture against litter and no culture of recycling. It takes decades to change that.

b.jpg

bo.jpg

boa.jpg

Sorry to bust your balloon but we unfortunately do not have decades left. We are at the tipping point right now.

You must be very young, because we are on the tipping point since 40 years.

Since 40 years I hear in a few years there won't be oil anymore, all trees will die, ozone will kill us while the ozone hole makes us blind and the sea will increase so many cm that we are all under water.

In fact nothing happened.

The plastic bags are an annoyance and spoil everything but they won't crash the planet.

The bags won't crash the planet we will if we don't stop them and all the others damages to our environment we are making.

[Keesters]

In B.C. Canada. Bring your own bag, get a brown paper bio-degradable bag or buy a plastic bag.

Got to be practical. If you want a bag pay for it. Give the customer a chance to refuse a plastic bag.

Educate the kids. When the kids are properly educated can have a significant influence on the parents.

Paper doesn't last long enough. Nothing wrong with a good long lasting strong jute or sisal bag like our forefathers used before plastic. Where the hell did we get into the habit of using plastic bags instead of what we had before. It happened in my time but I don't remember it.

[Keesters]

In B.C. Canada. Bring your own bag, get a brown paper bio-degradable bag or buy a plastic bag.

Got to be practical. If you want a bag pay for it. Give the customer a chance to refuse a plastic bag.

Educate the kids. When the kids are properly educated can have a significant influence on the parents.

Now there's a novelty. Educate the kids and let them educate the parents. In my time it was my parents who educated me about such things as this. School was mainly the 3 Rs.

But it might work if you can get the Thai schools on board.

[opalred]

i think making bags out of jute good idea then thay can smoke them

[wileycoyote]

Yes ,charging is a feefor plastic bags is the only way forward ,to reduce production & pollution

[JDGRUEN]

If anyone wants plastic bags to disappear from Thailand ... then instead of gnashing teeth or griping about it ... spend the energy to Crowd Fund the solution I posted about in this post...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/807110-time-to-banish-plastic-bags-in-thailand/#entry9165884

Plastic bottles are collected all over Thailand and recycled - because there is a market... the same can happen to plastic bags...

Remember all the positions, policies and even propaganda of those who believe that they are Environmentalist or Greenies - cannot always be forced on others. Creating a clean industry to bury the plastic bag waste in usable hybrid 'Lumber' is more achievable than ridding Thailand of plastic bags. And my proposal also creates a system that uses fewer trees for lumber.

The same can be done for waste Styrofoam ... it can be collected - ground into a semblance of the EPS beads that it was made from... Then the ground EPS (Expanded Polystyrene) can be used in making very lightweight cement building blocks or in used as lightweight pour in place cement infill walls in construction. Years down the road when the structures are old and demolished the rubble can be used as landfill for new construction ...

Find solutions instead of fighting windmills...

One of my Thai kids grandma was a garbage picker. She said there was no money in plastic bags and Styrofoam anymore and didn't bother collecting it. I save all my bottles glass and plastic. When the bin gets full I watch out for the mute garbage picker who works my area. I put the bin outside for her to sort through. When she's done I bring the bin back in. All the plastic bottles have been transferred to my regular garbage bin and she only took the glass.

Down in Ban Amphur near to the beach there was the one and only plastic bag recycling place I've seen. They would wash, scrub and dry the bags before selling them on. It has been closed now for at least six months.

I've noticed a trend in packing of electronic and electrical goods recently in that they don't seem to use Styrofoam so much. Recycled paper in egg carton shape seems to be the current trend. And in Thailand if you have something delivered and it involves a box the guys will wait and take away the empty carton for you. Had that with new TV and fridge recently.

When and Where there is an upstream market - plastic bags and Styrofoam will have a collection system from bottom to top. Right now there really isn't a Thailand upstream market to reprocess these materials into something useful that also captures the material and for all intents and purposes removes it from the environment for eternity. Other countries have developed these industries and markets - Why? Because they can be money makers.

In my area every plastic and glass bottle is collected and moved upstream for reuse or recycling.- few escape the collectors. Small cottage industries are in play collecting beer bottles - packaging them into proper branded cases and then sent to the bottling companies.

One other industry that would have a great use as it does in other countries is processing unwanted glass (that is not wanted for direct reuse such as beer bottles) can be processed into 'cullett' glass. This cullett making process produces small glass chips that magically are not sharp on the edges. Cullett is use in making new glass and excess cullett is used in combination with asphalt to make Glassphalt used to pave roads instead of other mined aggregate stone.

So - here are three industries that Crowd Funding could be used for environmental purposes of capturing a waste material and turning into something useful - while at the same time ridding it from the environment for all intents and purposes ( taking it out of circulation).

The engineering technology is well known and in use in many countries to turn - Number 1 - plastic bags - ground and mixed with cellulosic materials (saw dust substitutes) into lumber that last for 30 years. Number 2 is recycled Styrofoam to make lightweight concrete (ground EPS mixed with sand and cement and water) for pour in place construction of infill walls instead of those little red bricks - or make lightweight cement/EPS blocks for similar use. Third is recycled glass that is not ReUsed directly for its original purpose - turned into cullett then use to make glass and to make Glassphalt to pave roads.

If you do not know what Crowd Funding is -- look it up ... The loan methods found in Crowd Funding could fund these enterprises and clean up Thailand and creating.

By putting efforts into Crowd Funding to solves these problems - solutions arrive - benefits appear. Energy used up in pissing and moaning about prohibiting plastic bags can better be used to create achievable solutions.. solutions that have side benefits. But - I know it is too close to Capitalism and some shudder at the thought.

By the way Keesters my post is not really directed to you ... it was just an opportunity to further explain my ideas on the sugject

[Keesters]

i think making bags out of jute good idea then thay can smoke them

You're welcome to try but I don't think it will have the effect you desire. Jute & hemp. Same plant but different parts of it.

Jute is the stem. Hemp is the leaf and flower.

[Wat dee]

Thainess,well not just Thailand,its a global problem. Lets go back to using paper bags.

Great idea, too many trees blocking view anyway.

[Keesters]

If anyone wants plastic bags to disappear from Thailand ... then instead of gnashing teeth or griping about it ... spend the energy to Crowd Fund the solution I posted about in this post...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/807110-time-to-banish-plastic-bags-in-thailand/#entry9165884

Plastic bottles are collected all over Thailand and recycled - because there is a market... the same can happen to plastic bags...

Remember all the positions, policies and even propaganda of those who believe that they are Environmentalist or Greenies - cannot always be forced on others. Creating a clean industry to bury the plastic bag waste in usable hybrid 'Lumber' is more achievable than ridding Thailand of plastic bags. And my proposal also creates a system that uses fewer trees for lumber.

The same can be done for waste Styrofoam ... it can be collected - ground into a semblance of the EPS beads that it was made from... Then the ground EPS (Expanded Polystyrene) can be used in making very lightweight cement building blocks or in used as lightweight pour in place cement infill walls in construction. Years down the road when the structures are old and demolished the rubble can be used as landfill for new construction ...

Find solutions instead of fighting windmills...

One of my Thai kids grandma was a garbage picker. She said there was no money in plastic bags and Styrofoam anymore and didn't bother collecting it. I save all my bottles glass and plastic. When the bin gets full I watch out for the mute garbage picker who works my area. I put the bin outside for her to sort through. When she's done I bring the bin back in. All the plastic bottles have been transferred to my regular garbage bin and she only took the glass.

Down in Ban Amphur near to the beach there was the one and only plastic bag recycling place I've seen. They would wash, scrub and dry the bags before selling them on. It has been closed now for at least six months.

I've noticed a trend in packing of electronic and electrical goods recently in that they don't seem to use Styrofoam so much. Recycled paper in egg carton shape seems to be the current trend. And in Thailand if you have something delivered and it involves a box the guys will wait and take away the empty carton for you. Had that with new TV and fridge recently.

When and Where there is an upstream market - plastic bags and Styrofoam will have a collection system from bottom to top. Right now there really isn't a Thailand upstream market to reprocess these materials into something useful that also captures the material and for all intents and purposes removes it from the environment for eternity. Other countries have developed these industries and markets - Why? Because they can be money makers.

In my area every plastic and glass bottle is collected and moved upstream for reuse or recycling.- few escape the collectors. Small cottage industries are in play collecting beer bottles - packaging them into proper branded cases and then sent to the bottling companies.

One other industry that would have a great use as it does in other countries is processing unwanted glass (that is not wanted for direct reuse such as beer bottles) can be processed into 'cullett' glass. This cullett making process produces small glass chips that magically are not sharp on the edges. Cullett is use in making new glass and excess cullett is used in combination with asphalt to make Glassphalt used to pave roads instead of other mined aggregate stone.

So - here are three industries that Crowd Funding could be used for environmental purposes of capturing a waste material and turning into something useful - while at the same time ridding it from the environment for all intents and purposes ( taking it out of circulation).

The engineering technology is well known and in use in many countries to turn - Number 1 - plastic bags - ground and mixed with cellulosic materials (saw dust substitutes) into lumber that last for 30 years. Number 2 is recycled Styrofoam to make lightweight concrete (ground EPS mixed with sand and cement and water) for pour in place construction of infill walls instead of those little red bricks - or make lightweight cement/EPS blocks for similar use. Third is recycled glass that is not ReUsed directly for its original purpose - turned into cullett then use to make glass and to make Glassphalt to pave roads.

If you do not know what Crowd Funding is -- look it up ... The loan methods found in Crowd Funding could fund these enterprises and clean up Thailand and creating.

By putting efforts into Crowd Funding to solves these problems - solutions arrive - benefits appear. Energy used up in pissing and moaning about prohibiting plastic bags can better be used to create achievable solutions.. solutions that have side benefits. But - I know it is too close to Capitalism and some shudder at the thought.

By the way Keesters my post is not really directed to you ... it was just an opportunity to further explain my ideas on the sugject

Too technical. Save it for a lecture and those who should be interested like the government. But as I said before no upstream market for plastic bags and Styrofoam so the garbage pickers don't collect. Seeing less and less Styrofoam thee days but more and more plastic. One Styrofoam foam I'd like to see got rid of is that used mby the travelling food vendors. Every day these guys come down my street and the Thais pour out their houses and buy noodle soup whatever sold in. Styrofoam bowl. Those bowls because they are so light end up being blown all over the street if they are not placed in a garbage bin properly. All these houses have reuseable bowls I'm sure. Why they don't take them out to the vendor and get their noodles put in them I do not know. Too lazy to wash them clean later, don't care about the environment, or just plain stupid. Take your pick.

[Keesters]

Thainess,well not just Thailand,its a global problem. Lets go back to using paper bags.

You've not really given this much thought have you. Paper is not the answer.

[Wat dee]

It will never happen in 50 years in Thailand.

Because nobody in the government sector will make any money doing it.....As we know it's all about padding the bank account.

Road sides are lot cleaner than 25 years ago. 25 years ago, it was norm to dump your shit road side. It still happens but not like it used to. Now people actually have rubbish bins, 25 years ago the yard was it.

Getting there...

[kannot]

Neither plastic bags or paper bags are required.

In Canada, we now use tote bags made of cotton, hemp, heavy-gauge plastic, almost any material.

Plastic bags are still available (if you forget your tote) but there is a nominal charge for them.

One supermarket chain that I go to maintains a bin near check-out where they put the empty boxes that their products arrive in. This system works very well.

Remembering to take your tote along takes a bit of getting used to. But the benefits to the planet make it a great cause.

Even though what you are buying has been flown half way round the world eh? ITS NOT THE BAGS thats are the problem, its the people using them and how they use/discard them

The bags are the problem. Take away the bag and you take away the problem of discarding them. If I go on a regular shopping trip I can return home with maybe 20 or more bags. All of which I have no use for. The garbage truck people would rather I not tie my crap up in bags. Just put the crap in my bin they say. Easier for them to sort through to find anything of value. Some of the bags I get might be very small just big enough to hold a drink can. What use does that have for the future except to go to the land fill. While I agree with you about irresponsible bag deposal take away the bag and you take away the problem of disposing of it.

My local tesco express has a garbage bin outside the door. It is constantly overflowing with plastic bags little tiny small ones that maybe held a stick of gum. There are so many the overflow ends up being blown down the street. None of these bags were need. They got used for just a few seconds. Please don't tell me the bag is not the problem where it most certainly is.

put a billion bags in a warehouse and lock the door?? the bags arent the problem its the mis use and disposal thats the problem, in that case take away the human and the problem is gone.

And where do you think that bin full of crap ends up anyway?

[kannot]

Thainess,well not just Thailand,its a global problem. Lets go back to using paper bags.

You've not really given this much thought have you. Paper is not the answer.

Paper breaks down easily and is much better.

[bobonzo]

Thais this Thais that...plastic isn't only a problem in Thailand.

[kannot]

In B.C. Canada. Bring your own bag, get a brown paper bio-degradable bag or buy a plastic bag.

Got to be practical. If you want a bag pay for it. Give the customer a chance to refuse a plastic bag.

Educate the kids. When the kids are properly educated can have a significant influence on the parents.

Now there's a novelty. Educate the kids and let them educate the parents. In my time it was my parents who educated me about such things as this. School was mainly the 3 Rs.

But it might work if you can get the Thai schools on board.

The whole system teaches not to question older folk so it wont work......kids telling parents not to drop rubbish.......its simple really , many people here simply do not care on iota about ANYTHING except he who cant be mentioned and who could do a lot to stop this but it seems the whole..........I cant go there

Anyway Thais dont give a damn and its "their" country as they like to proclaim daily at 8 and 6! The fact their crap ends up on others beaches means bugger all to them.

What matters is if they can drop it without anyone seeing them do it , although here by me they dont care about that either, out the window or off the bike, crap is everywhere

[Jai Dee]

One flame post and one anti-Thai post have been removed from this thread.

[96tehtarp]

It will never happen in 50 years in Thailand.

Because nobody in the government sector will make any money doing it.....As we know it's all about padding the bank account.

Road sides are lot cleaner than 25 years ago. 25 years ago, it was norm to dump your shit road side. It still happens but not like it used to. Now people actually have rubbish bins, 25 years ago the yard was it.

Getting there...

I remember more than ten years ago.. my house fronts on a major river in Thailand and has a veranda with nice sunsets every night. I recall watching all the garbage bags, diapers, you name float their way down river. Then, there was no garbage collection. Now we have garbage collection, at least that's some improvement. It's still not enough because all those plastic bags and containers, and batteries go to a landfill somewhere.