Fully Enclosed Chain for a 'Big Bike'

[Phra Ek]

I hate chains. They stretch, cause driveline lash, fling grease onto my rear wheel, need regular adjustment and eventually wear out needing a sprocket and chain replacement.

But there don't seem to be any mid market/middle weight shaft-drive street bikes any more (like the old Honda v-twins) - except for the costly BMW's and Guzzis?

The venerable Honda Cub/Wave series has had a fully enclosed chain for years and this helps to keep dirt off the chain and keep the chain lube where it belongs and I guess this extends chain life.

So why can't we have an enclosed chain on a street bike or adventure tourer?

With some clever design and use of carbon fiber, rubber bellows etc. it could look better than the steel cover on a Wave - and it could extend chain life, keep the bike cleaner and extend service intervals for the chain.

The longer life could e a big benefit for long distance tourers.

Anyone seen an after-market chain cover?

[apetley]

Becker, a German company made kits years ago. They became Hepco and Becker, specialising in luggage and as far as I know dropped the chain kits unfortunately.

[Phra Ek]

Becker, a German company made kits years ago. They became Hepco and Becker, specialising in luggage and as far as I know dropped the chain kits unfortunately.

Ah yes - just found some old details on the 'net about the Becker enclosed guard.

[BSJ]

Why not go a belt drive a la Harley, Kawasaki and Indian/Victory

It can't be that hard to do and it's proven low tech....nology.

[Longtooth]

Why not go a belt drive a la Harley, Kawasaki and Indian/Victory

It can't be that hard to do and it's proven low tech....nology.

Absolutely!!! Loved the belt drive on my Harleys. 900 cc Kawa Vulcan comes with it, I think.

[guzzi850m2]

Well the problem with drive belts is that you never know when they go.

If you ride very hard, especially very hard acceleration from 1st gear this can shorten the life on the belt a lot.

I heard of some HD riders here in Thailand that had the drive belt brake unexpected (a stone can damage them or above) and the bike had to be trucked to nearest HD dealer/mechanic for a new belt.

HD drive belts can last from everything to 1000 km but also well above 50k km.

I always carried one spare belt when I owned one and went touring but never needed it during +3 years ownership.

Yes chains are also a pain in the ass but when using really good chain lube that are not easily flung off, you chain can last a long time and you will know when it's time for a new set.

[WheresWaldo]

Well you sure touched my hot button. Back in the States, I have had many bikes, but the last one was a BMW r1150R, my first bike with a driveshaft. Man, did I fall in love with that. When I cam over here and settled on an ER6n, oh how I hated to go back to a chain. High maintenance, dirty, blah, blah, blah. I did add a Scottoiler, which makes it little more palatable.

Not so sure about the cover, though. It is easy enough to overlook chain maintenance as it is. If the chain was covered, I think I'd have a tendency to forget about it. With a Wave you can skip the chain lube for a year and get way with it, but that would never fly with an ER6n.

I'm surprised more manufacturers have not gone to a belt for road bikes. How hard would that be? Sure they can break, and stones are a risk. But if I had a belt drive bike, I'd always carry a spare belt in my side case along with the tool set I always carry. As it is, I have spare sections of chain and master links.

[AllanB]

The belt system needs to be designed into the bike at an early stage, as there are a limited number of stock belts and pulleys available, so the chances of getting all 3 correct with the correct power transmission and limited space available to fit it, is shall we say, difficult. Unless you build a new bike.

With a chain system, the sprockets are narrow and the chain can simply be cut to length to suit you centre distances.

Doing a belt conversion in the west where there are a lot of suppliers, would be extremely time consuming, in Thailand impossible, so forget that. It works for the big companies because they are not using stock parts.

Building a "sprocket box" shouldn't be difficult, making it look nice is another matter. We made a couple for our dune buggies, they did the job, indeed made it safer too, but it ruined the look of the buggy so we left it.

Remember too that as well as being versatile, a chain is the most efficient power transmission system. So I would go for a top of the range "O" ring chain, high quality sprockets and an anti-fling chain lube. This will last 20 times longer than the standard kit and be less messy too....or build a new bike from scratch....or buy another bike.

[Gsxrnz]

If your chain is throwing "grease" on to your rim/tyre, that would suggest that you're over oiling it and/or using an inappropriate lube.

Always lube the chain AFTER a ride, never before. Use a dry spray lube/wax and work on the assumption that "less is more". The dry wax type is less prone to attracting dust. If you use a traditional oil (and too much of it), it soaks up the dust and becomes a grinding paste for your chain and sprockets.

Many riders also want to over adjust their chain, wrongly believing that a chain that is slightly over tight is better performing than a slightly loose\ one. An over tightened chain (even slightly tight) puts additional stress on the sprockets and the chain will stretch quicker than if correctly adjusted or even being slightly loose.

Read up on how to adjust the chain correctly. Many riders fail to lock down the adjuster nuts and axle nut in the right sequence and wind up with a tighter chain than they expected. A rubber hammer is ideal for knocking the tyre to ensure the rim settles properly as the nuts are progressively tightened and locked.

Allow for static sag of the rear suspension when setting - there's usually a midpoint setting between unladen and laden that gives you an ideal tension for your chain. Don't be inclined to adjust too frequently as this will reduce the life of the chain and sprockets. A slightly loose chain will not damage your sprockets, a tight chain will. That's assuming the chain isn't already stretched beyond manufacturers specs.

Always replace your sprockets (especially your front one) whenever you replace the chain. Even if the sprocket looks pristine, change it.

[kaorop]

If your chain is throwing "grease" on to your rim/tyre, that would suggest that you're over oiling it and/or using an inappropriate lube.

Always lube the chain AFTER a ride, never before. Use a dry spray lube/wax and work on the assumption that "less is more". The dry wax type is less prone to attracting dust. If you use a traditional oil (and too much of it), it soaks up the dust and becomes a grinding paste for your chain and sprockets.

Many riders also want to over adjust their chain, wrongly believing that a chain that is slightly over tight is better performing than a slightly loose\ one. An over tightened chain (even slightly tight) puts additional stress on the sprockets and the chain will stretch quicker than if correctly adjusted or even being slightly loose.

Read up on how to adjust the chain correctly. Many riders fail to lock down the adjuster nuts and axle nut in the right sequence and wind up with a tighter chain than they expected. A rubber hammer is ideal for knocking the tyre to ensure the rim settles properly as the nuts are progressively tightened and locked.

Allow for static sag of the rear suspension when setting - there's usually a midpoint setting between unladen and laden that gives you an ideal tension for your chain. Don't be inclined to adjust too frequently as this will reduce the life of the chain and sprockets. A slightly loose chain will not damage your sprockets, a tight chain will. That's assuming the chain isn't already stretched beyond manufacturers specs.

Always replace your sprockets (especially your front one) whenever you replace the chain. Even if the sprocket looks pristine, change it.

you're giving someone who seems a bit (DELETED) a comprehensive maintenance program. lol

Edited March 11, 2015 by seedy
troll / flaming

[andreandre]

Well the problem with drive belts is that you never know when they go.

If you ride very hard, especially very hard acceleration from 1st gear this can shorten the life on the belt a lot.

I heard of some HD riders here in Thailand that had the drive belt brake unexpected (a stone can damage them or above) and the bike had to be trucked to nearest HD dealer/mechanic for a new belt.

HD drive belts can last from everything to 1000 km but also well above 50k km.

I always carried one spare belt when I owned one and went touring but never needed it during +3 years ownership.

Yes chains are also a pain in the ass but when using really good chain lube that are not easily flung off, you chain can last a long time and you will know when it's time for a new set.

HD belts are fairly good, as long as the belt guards are left on the bike.....otherwise when tyres flick up stones etc the drive belt becomes a conveyor belt and can end up perforating the belt and weakening it..Good idea to carry a belt when touring in Thai [not so many HD belt shops around] but you still have to have specialist tools to fit it...A belt repair kit is all we ever carried between a group on a long trip..Belts on highway only bikes commonly get 100,000+ k's and the longest that i heard of was 250,000ks in the US somewhere.

[AllanB]

Well the problem with drive belts is that you never know when they go.

If you ride very hard, especially very hard acceleration from 1st gear this can shorten the life on the belt a lot.

I heard of some HD riders here in Thailand that had the drive belt brake unexpected (a stone can damage them or above) and the bike had to be trucked to nearest HD dealer/mechanic for a new belt.

HD drive belts can last from everything to 1000 km but also well above 50k km.

I always carried one spare belt when I owned one and went touring but never needed it during +3 years ownership.

Yes chains are also a pain in the ass but when using really good chain lube that are not easily flung off, you chain can last a long time and you will know when it's time for a new set.

HD belts are fairly good, as long as the belt guards are left on the bike.....otherwise when tyres flick up stones etc the drive belt becomes a conveyor belt and can end up perforating the belt and weakening it..Good idea to carry a belt when touring in Thai [not so many HD belt shops around] but you still have to have specialist tools to fit it...A belt repair kit is all we ever carried between a group on a long trip..Belts on highway only bikes commonly get 100,000+ k's and the longest that i heard of was 250,000ks in the US somewhere.

Even worse if you get a stone inside the belt, could snap the belt and with no guard you would get a good "slap".

Shaft drive is best, a little loss in horsepower otherwise no downside that I know off. IWTBC.

[Phra Ek]

Thanks for all the posts.

I use a good dry/wax spray lube that I bought in the US - perhaps I'm using a bit too much as I'm worried about the dusty environment.

But I'd still prefer a shaft or even a belt - I think belt to chain conversions are quite common (for drag-bikes?) but the other way around may be a problem as others have said? The belt pulley is much wider than a chain sprocket.

I know a chain is light and efficient - but as we're not sticking to a specific racing class we could always go with a shaft drive and a bigger engine to get the same performance?

An updated version of the old shaft drive 500cc Honda Bros would be great for Thailand (but with a better name).

And I reckon the current CB500X is a step backwards from the old CX500 - which had a shaft (although it did look like a plastic maggot).

I did a Google search but couldn't find a supplier of a modern chain enclosure .... just the old Becker one.

So as I don't want to pay for a BMW or a Guzzi I'll need to keep spraying, adjusting and complaining.

[seedy]

Good info in Post #9

And always buy an excellent quality chain. Do not be fooled by the price - top quality is not cheap.

It will stretch less, so require less adjustment. It will last longer.

Cheaper in the long run.

Win-Win

[BSJ]

OK, it's not always easy to do a conversion, and I understand that, but there are companies out there that can help. There are hundreds of firms that can do rapid prototyping one offs. You need to add some space in the drive chain cover for a belt....rapid prototyping can give you what you want in days. Need some parts machined? There are thousands of companies of companies who can help. You can find em on the net, or in the Yellow pages.

All you have to do is want to do it and it will happen!

[papa al]

Always replace your sprockets (especially your front one) whenever you replace the chain. Even if the sprocket looks pristine, change it.

Why exactly?

Thanks.

[andreandre]

Always replace your sprockets (especially your front one) whenever you replace the chain. Even if the sprocket looks pristine, change it.

Why exactly?

Thanks.

I have always done so on a chain bike because it was always the understood proceedure.....reason i was told is that if you are replacing your chain is generally because it has worn out..ie stretched beyond its original specs,,,,,as it stretches over time it wears the sprockets in places where they wouldn't wear with a good chain [the rollers aren't a snug fit in the teeth any longer] so even if the sprocket may look OK its no doubt not in same shape as original...putting a new chain on such a sprocket will wear it out a lot faster...the cost of replacing the front sprocket is peanuts compared to buying another new chain a lot sooner than you would otherwise need to makes it logical...

[andreandre]

On the subject of chains...i owned a couple of Laverdas back in the '70's.. a Jota mainly for trackwork and a Mirage...they had massive 630 final drive chains fitted.....didn't see that size on many bikes that i recall...Was told that the sheer weight of the chain should make them wear faster but i got really good mileage out of them....cant remember if O ring jobs or not, but i frequently cleaned and lubed my chains...Joy of Laverdas..they had centerstand so tyre and chain checks were easy...Centerstands should be fitted to all road bikes...BS about extra weight and ground clearance issues....the advantages far outweigh any disadvantages IMO..

Edited March 14, 2015 by andreandre