John Karr Innocent!

[TRD LOVER]

What a farce the news system in America has become...This guy will get a book and movie deal for this fiasco, SUR POP!!! He is hot property now..

I was told by my mother in Mesa AZ, that she was just sick of this John Karr story being played over and over on all her local TV channels as well as all the national news as well... days on the local news was this John Karr story.. his life and all the rest of the BS that follows someone who is in the media spotlight...

She told me by phone: "I BET YOU THIS PUNK DIDN'T DO IT AT ALL!!" My mom is so cool at 87!

All the crazy psychics said he didn't do it as it was a ploy for him to get out of Thailand FREE..she said!! Rememeber what they did to you and Nick? was her only comment...

The camera crazy paparatzzi will drive any one nuts.. I was sitting in Nick Cage's black SUV one day in LA in FEB 2000...what a freekin nightmare we had...we just could not get away from them... all because I sold Nicky a TRD puppy ... They bugged me for for interviews after the fact for 2 days.. at that same pet expo show.. It soon was just a huge hassle.

America is so caught up with "sensation" and with all the bright lights created at others..

It is so wonderful now not to own a TV or subsribe to UBC...

DVD's and THAI VISA..what a wonderful Life...I all have in Thailand...

[lecter]

Karr was implicated in a bomb plot in Bangkok.

But unfortunately he as incarcerated in the US at the time.

Thai police still believe he did it.

Karr commented in an online chat room:-

"I need a ticket home, I have no money, no one knows me"

The rest is history.

But to even slightly suggest you may have done these things, joking aside, puts you in the seriously sick department. It seems, without evidence to prove it, that he likes the young girls. Bangkok isn't the place for him, he's more of a Gary Glitter. Fortunately, across the hills in Phnom Penh, they're clamping down on these rock spiders as well.

[brahmburgers]

hate to say 'I told you so' but when I first heard of Karr, I told friends that 'giving detailad evidence of the crime was not difficult - if some nut so chose to do so. There has been at least one extremely detailed TV documentary about the Bennet case - even showing such video footage as where, exactly, an intruder's bootmarks were at a basement casement window. The documentary, by the way, gave strong evidence that exonerated the little girl's parents. I think all in all the Denver police could have done a better job from the get-go.

[Virgil]

agree ... it is actually a "puss-boilie scum-bag"

V.

puss-boilie bag

definition please.

[Virgil]

hate to say 'I told you so' but when I first heard of Karr, I told friends that 'giving detailad evidence of the crime was not difficult - if some nut so chose to do so. There has been at least one extremely detailed TV documentary about the Bennet case - even showing such video footage as where, exactly, an intruder's bootmarks were at a basement casement window. The documentary, by the way, gave strong evidence that exonerated the little girl's parents. I think all in all the Denver police could have done a better job from the get-go.

I thought Karr was being wanted by Thai police for something .... ? .... and what was he DOING in BKK anyway .... ? .... I suspect fessing up to a crime that he didn't commit in the US meant that he didn't have to pay a visit to the Bangkok Hilton.

Virg.

[Thaiquila]

hate to say 'I told you so' but when I first heard of Karr, I told friends that 'giving detailad evidence of the crime was not difficult - if some nut so chose to do so. There has been at least one extremely detailed TV documentary about the Bennet case - even showing such video footage as where, exactly, an intruder's bootmarks were at a basement casement window. The documentary, by the way, gave strong evidence that exonerated the little girl's parents. I think all in all the Denver police could have done a better job from the get-go.

I thought Karr was being wanted by Thai police for something .... ? .... and what was he DOING in BKK anyway .... ? .... I suspect fessing up to a crime that he didn't commit in the US meant that he didn't have to pay a visit to the Bangkok Hilton.

Virg.

Nope. He was under SUSPICION of POTENTIALLY molesting a specific girl. But there were no charges and presumably no crime. They were just afraid he would do it, which is understandable. You generally can't arrest someone for having the potential of doing a criminal act though. He wasn't under any danger of going to the Hilton.

[TravelBUG]

I wonder what spin the Thai authorities will put on this, as they are just too quick to extradite people on flimsey evidence if any at all? Still Karr won't be coming back to Thailand even though he did nothing wrong here!

While the Thai spin will be interesting, I want to hear the US spin....... they had enough evidence to satisfy "Probable Cause" which obtained a warrant signed by a judge, this would also suffice for extradition. ALL that is required for extradition is a warrant from elsewhere, no evidence is taken nor required, UNLESS the extradition is contested, which Karr did not.

How did the prosecutor obtain a warrant?

What do you mean he did nothing wrong? He is a peadophile, isnt that wrong enough!!!

Did anyone stop to think that he confessed to Jon Benet's murder so he could get out of a Thailand Jail, where he knows he will surely rot in hel_l..... so he can be moved to an american jail.. where they get treated better than an average citizen?

People often commit crimes in australia and America just to be put in jail becuase they get treated well... food, tv, a roof etc! beats iving on the street or paying out the ass in taxes!!

Edited August 30, 2006 by TravelBUG

[Scott]

Some comments need clarifying:

1. There has to be a chain of custody for a DNA sample to be used in prosecuting someone. That chain of custody doesn't exist in Thailand--therefore, he had to be brought back for the DNA sample to be used. Otherwise for a few thousand baht, he could have had anyone's DNA substituted for his own. For those you who might remember, this was a crucial part of the defense in the O.J. Simpson case. Lots of people had access to the blood samples etc.

2. Yes, you can get charged for pictures of your own kids in the bathtub. A friend took a picture of his 4 month old daughter being given a bath and sent it via email to his aging mother. They both got a visit from the police and were told they will be watched and monitored. The email was sent from Thailand to Canda.

Since Karr is estranged from his wife and children, they probably weren't his own children, but it's pretty easy to get nabbed on this sort of thing.

[Thaiquila]

I wonder what spin the Thai authorities will put on this, as they are just too quick to extradite people on flimsey evidence if any at all? Still Karr won't be coming back to Thailand even though he did nothing wrong here!

While the Thai spin will be interesting, I want to hear the US spin....... they had enough evidence to satisfy "Probable Cause" which obtained a warrant signed by a judge, this would also suffice for extradition. ALL that is required for extradition is a warrant from elsewhere, no evidence is taken nor required, UNLESS the extradition is contested, which Karr did not.

How did the prosecutor obtain a warrant?

What do you mean he did nothing wrong? He is a peadophile, isnt that wrong enough!!!

Did anyone stop to think that he confessed to Jon Benet's murder so he could get of a Thailand Jail, where he knows he will surely rot in hel_l..... so he can be moved to an american jail.. where they get treated better than an average citizen?

People often commit crimes in australia and America just to be put in jail becuase they get treated well... food, tv, a roof etc! beats iving on the street or paying out the ass in taxes!!

No, the only evidence yet presented is that he is pedo in FANTASY only (including his porn tastes).

In his entire life, there is still not one accusation against him that he has commited sex act crimes against children. He is clearly a pedo in his head, but there is still no evidence he is a pedo in real life.

Of course, he fits a profile of someone that either wants to or has done these crimes, but the devil is in the details, no evidence he actually has done these crimes.

In any case, he will never teach again. He likely won't ever be able to be near children again. So he will just have to wallow in his new riches and fantasy life. All in all, his madness was still a good career move. He acted the part, and the US press and Boulder DA played right along. Amazing America!

Edited August 30, 2006 by Thaiquila

[paulmw]

I wonder what spin the Thai authorities will put on this, as they are just too quick to extradite people on flimsey evidence if any at all? Still Karr won't be coming back to Thailand even though he did nothing wrong here!

While the Thai spin will be interesting, I want to hear the US spin....... they had enough evidence to satisfy "Probable Cause" which obtained a warrant signed by a judge, this would also suffice for extradition. ALL that is required for extradition is a warrant from elsewhere, no evidence is taken nor required, UNLESS the extradition is contested, which Karr did not.

How did the prosecutor obtain a warrant?

What do you mean he did nothing wrong? He is a peadophile, isnt that wrong enough!!!

Did anyone stop to think that he confessed to Jon Benet's murder so he could get of a Thailand Jail, where he knows he will surely rot in hel_l..... so he can be moved to an american jail.. where they get treated better than an average citizen?

People often commit crimes in australia and America just to be put in jail becuase they get treated well... food, tv, a roof etc! beats iving on the street or paying out the ass in taxes!!

No, the only evidence yet presented is that he is pedo in FANTASY only (including his porn tastes).

In his entire life, there is still not one accusation against him that he has commited sex act crimes against children. He is clearly a pedo in his head, but there is still no evidence he is a pedo in real life.

Of course, he fits a profile of someone that either wants to or has done these crimes, but the devil is in the details, no evidence he actually has done these crimes.

In any case, he will never teach again. He likely won't ever be able to be near children again. So he will just have to wallow in his new riches and fantasy life. All in all, his madness was still a good career move. He acted the part, and the US press and Boulder DA played right along. Amazing America!

He may not be able to teach again!!! No with the book & film rights he can buy the school.

Paul

[Ijustwannateach]

Sex thought crimes are a controversial, emotional and marginal topic. Please try to keep things civil and sane (and preferably Thai-related), folks.

[Thaiquila]

Sex thought crimes are a controversial, emotional and marginal topic. Please try to keep things civil and sane (and preferably Thai-related), folks.

Yes, I totally agree.

I have been trying to keep this Thai related, to continually mention the damage to the reputation of Thailand brought on by American yellow journalism related to this ridiculous case.

So, in what countries of the world is THINKING and FANTASIZING about a crime, actually a crime?

[johnwills]

I agree with all the comments about the news channels, since we went 24 hours the need to MAKE news rather than report the news seems to have taken over. How else can they fill the whole day? I stopped watching Sky news in the UK after the Tusnami in S.E.Asia. I didn't like the way (in My opinion) they tried to sensationalize the telephone interviews with survivers, continually asking did you see bodies floating in the water etc etc. I only watch BBC news 24 now, even that is starting to follow suit.

[AmeriThai]

Yes, I totally agree.

I have been trying to keep this Thai related, to continually mention the damage to the reputation of Thailand brought on by American yellow journalism related to this ridiculous case.

So, in what countries of the world is THINKING and FANTASIZING about a crime, actually a crime?

Thinking and fantasizing is illegal when a person acts on those thoughts and fantasies. John Karr did just that by his 'confessions' in Thailand. I'm not sure how Thai law regards such matters but it's called, "Obstruction of Justice". By lying, even if he is delusional, his story (albeit full of holes) is misleading by claiming he was the one who killed JonBenet.

"I loved JonBenet, and she died accidentally," he said. Asked if he was an innocent man, Karr replied, "No."

Karr also had told an American investigator he had drugged Ramsey and sexually assaulted her before accidentally killing her, said a Thai police official, Gen. Suwat Thamrongsrisakul.

Karr asked police what charges he was facing, Thamrongsrisakul said. When police replied first-degree murder, Karr said: "No, it's second-degree -- it wasn't intentional," according to Thamrongsrisakul.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/08/17/ramsey.arrest/index.html

[thaigene2]

Yeah it was pretty clear to most I think that this guy was a flake and unlikely to be the real killer.

Now for that other news report about a car bomb in Bangkok capable of destroying one-square kilometer. You gotta just love the IQ level of journos that don't even question a claim like that - and keep repeating it. I asked my Thai friends if they thought a nuke was in the trunk/boot. I only got a blank stare..

[animatic]

They had probably cause for the child porn skip.

He seemed quite obsessed with Jb R,

and was linked by that gullible professor in Boulder,

and the many years of emails between them.

I am sure he likely did flip out to some extent when under questioning,

BUT a big but. his clear obsession with her, only needed a smidgeon

of prodding here to pop out.

They had enough info on him via those emails, to push the right buttons.

But not enough info to take his statements with a grain of salt,

especially with the cultural and language differences.

In any case, he is likely best off the street,

likely best to have his face WELL KNOWN everywhere,

because he seems a a "classic accident waiting to happen".

Clearly appearing to be an obsessed indidvidual

fitting the pattern of child molester or future child molester.

They have the profile down pretty solidly,

and as I understand that profile,

he is a dead ringer.

He may know if he does wrong or right, escaping an insanity defense,

but also can be seen as likely tipping over the edge at some point.

He seemingly does NOT think that his sexual identification with young girls

is wrong, he seemingly thinks society is wrong for not sanctioning it.

The question is; has he or will he act on this justification to ignore societal norms,

because he thinks they are wrong.

He probably DID think he WAS with her at the time of her death,

in the sympathetic fantasy sense, he imagined and reimagined

this connection with her, until under Thai jailhouse preasure

it became a reality for him.

Or he likely stated his sympathetic fantasy and the Thai police

just took it as truth, rather than ravings of a borderline nut case.

I always thought the case was blown out of proportion in the USA press,

beauty queen status or not.

Still dead at christmas, micro beauty queen, obsessed mother

pushing her daughter into more and more contests, willing or not,

classic suburban life ripped asunder.

It certainly fit a juicy slow newsday script for tabloid TV.

Especially amid the current hue and cry about

paedophiles running rampent there.

All in all a sad chapter in the book of life.

Edited August 30, 2006 by animatic

[jbsears]

I don't think there is anyway that he will get rich off of this. American society is too conservative to allow something like that. His book deal that he has is not about this story but was from before this story. He was writing a book about child predators/crimes (or something like that) which included the jon benet story. I'm sure he will lose any book deal that he previously had due to no publishing company wanting to be associated with a pedophile (or someone society thinks is a pedophile). The is a better chance he will be raped and killed in jail like Jeffrey Dahmer unless he spends his time in solitary.

Just my thoughts.

[thaiwitchhunt]

Some of you guys are too much.....most everybody wants to protect children but when you go too far you are repeating history. Remember the salem witch hunts etc....all these news stories and now these people up in arms and want blood just for the sake of blood. Why not kill everybody and let God sort this out!

The guy is sick............he needs help not the death penality.

Try reading some past history:

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/features/97/salem/

Thats all I have on this subject

Witch(not)

[thai_time]

to be sneering and taunting the authorities with cries of "i told you so" for falling for his delusions is surely missing the point. this country is better off without him .

as for him making vast amounts of money out of this , well even i would credit the american media with more sense than to promote the story of a pornography addicted paedophile who has also confessed to the murder of a child.

I personally was talking about the US MEDIA, namely FOX and CNN.

They have been thoroughly embarassed by this rush to judgement and they deserve to be reviled for their shameless folly. These are truly not news outlets, but rather delivers of propoganda and infotainment.

As far as crediting the American media with anything, you have really got to be kidding. This guy will write at least one book or have a ghostwriter write it, and the world will eat it up. I would bet the house that within 2 years this guy will either be filthy rich or dead because I also think he is a serious suicide risk. He badly needs a very good psychiatrist and also probably a wealth management advisor.

Why do you keep defending Karr? He is a sick pervert who has wasted a lot of peoples time and played with the emotions of the childs family. I hope he goes to prison for a long time.

[Thaiquila]

to be sneering and taunting the authorities with cries of "i told you so" for falling for his delusions is surely missing the point. this country is better off without him .

as for him making vast amounts of money out of this , well even i would credit the American media with more sense than to promote the story of a pornography addicted paedophile who has also confessed to the murder of a child.

I personally was talking about the US MEDIA, namely FOX and CNN.

They have been thoroughly embarassed by this rush to judgement and they deserve to be reviled for their shameless folly. These are truly not news outlets, but rather delivers of propoganda and infotainment.

As far as crediting the American media with anything, you have really got to be kidding. This guy will write at least one book or have a ghostwriter write it, and the world will eat it up. I would bet the house that within 2 years this guy will either be filthy rich or dead because I also think he is a serious suicide risk. He badly needs a very good psychiatrist and also probably a wealth management advisor.

Why do you keep defending Karr? He is a sick pervert who has wasted a lot of peoples time and played with the emotions of the childs family. I hope he goes to prison for a long time.

You don't know if it was the child's family who actually murdered her, do you?

The truth is the chances this cold case will ever be solved are basically nil, and that means the parents will always be under a shadow of doubt.

I am not really defending Karr. He is what he is.

What I am criticizing is the Boulder DA and the American media, especially their disgusting and false characterizations of Thailand.

This all could have and SHOULD have been dealt with quietly in Thailand by obtaining whatever DNA sample they needed in Thailand. They could have also determined there was no evidence he was in Boulder at the date of the crime. As far as the authorities fears that Karr was a danger to children, the Thai authorities could have dealt with him as they do other other farang sex crims in Thailand. Trouble is, it appears he never actually committed a sex crime in Thailand, unless you believe having twisted mental fantasies and writing emails is a sex act.

The law at least in the US does not call thought a crime, though I respect that Thailand may have a different standard.

You say you hope he goes to prison for a long time. That is valid. I hope you are consistent about this though. Does that mean you also hope that all people convicted of misdemeanors in California should go to prison for a long time, or just him because he is some kind of scapegoat to you? And, he is still under the law, an innocent man, as he hasn't been convicted yet even of those misdemeanors. He has a defense for those charges and he deserves his day in court.

BTW, I support the ACLU in the US and don't appreciate ANY individual being railroaded or scapegoated by mob mentality. He should be treated like any other defendant in court. And what I am hearing is that in California the charges against him are not much serious than an auto infraction. In most other US states, that is not the case, but he faces the charges in California.

And if he makes big bucks out of this, he has every legal right to do so. He is most probably very insane, but his insanity was mirrored by the bungling of the Boulder DA and the rabid American media.

Edited August 30, 2006 by Thaiquila

[Papa_Lazarou]

Our Father

Who art in Heaven

Hallowed by thy name

Please don't let me get stuck in an elevator

With Thaiquila

Amen.

[Thaiquila]

Our Father

Who art in Heaven

Hallowed by thy name

Please don't let me get stuck in an elevator

With Thaiquila

Amen.

Meaning what? Are you violent or something? Of course, just thinking about it is OK.

Interesting that people who are always talking about God are the most violent.

Edited August 30, 2006 by Thaiquila

[Papa_Lazarou]

Not violent, just worried about my poor ear 'oles.

"Anyway Papa Laz, let me tell ya something......"

...5 hours later with no rescue in sight....

"......and I just wanna say this...."

Edited August 30, 2006 by Papa_Lazarou

[Thaiquila]

Busted.

Touche.

Edited August 30, 2006 by Thaiquila

[jdinasia]

well TQ ... I don't think 1 year in jail and a significant fine FOR EACH OF THE 5 COUNTS is minimal. Sadly this happened prior to the Ferderal Amber Alert law which could have assured much more severe penalties!

[Thaiquila]

well TQ ... I don't think 1 year in jail and a significant fine FOR EACH OF THE 5 COUNTS is minimal. Sadly this happened prior to the Ferderal Amber Alert law which could have assured much more severe penalties!

If you say so, not really aware of the all the implications of that legislation.

I just think he should be treated like any other person facing those charges, and getting the full sentence for each charge would be highly unusual. That kind of overcharging is usually just a prosecution strategy for negotiation, a starting point, as it were. It is much more likely he will get time served or under a year total.

I have read that would be typical for a case of this kind in California (time served, he already was in the clink for 5 months).

Also, if under the law, they can mandate psychiatric help, clearly that would be a good thing.

Edited August 30, 2006 by Thaiquila

[jdinasia]

Time served would NOT be a typical sentence of someone that fled prosecution. In fact, consecutive sentences would be!

[Thaiquila]

Time served would NOT be a typical sentence of someone that fled prosecution. In fact, consecutive sentences would be!

Well, you're the expert I suppose. The media which I also don't trust is reporting that fleeing misdemeanor charges is also just a misdemeanor. Meaning not serious consequences. I just don't think he should get special treatment, good or bad, for being famous.

[jdinasia]

yeppers ... another 1 year and 10kUSD fine I think! plus it becomes a 'mitigating' <wrong word when applied to the prosecution> factor in sentencing

[Snake V]

ah, i forget american justice.

innocent until proved guilty, well, lets see what next.

American justice "Innocent until proven guilty" .... that's so pre 911, especially if you aint a white boy.