Expatitis in Thailand, Is Your Glass Half Empty or Half Full?

[diehard60]

I have read all the comments here and yea know I have been here for over 24 years and never have I had any of the problems that the rest of you have had. It all comes from YOU and YOUR attitude to the Thai people and to their culture. Remember you are a guest here, unless you have a Thai ID card now.

[reptile91602]

Living in Thailand is like living every day in the twilight zone, some good episodes and others disasters. Like building anything here that Hasn'nt been built by the Thais for hundreds of years. I laugh every time I see a 20 or 30 thousand baht house for sale and think of the moron that buys it thinking he has something of quality. Building anything but a teak house is a joke hear unless you have sat and watched the builders every step of the way and don't leave them for even 20 minutes which of course is just not practical.

The western music they play which is primarily 4 or 5 western bands from the 50's or 60's or all out the 1950's which was probably some of the worst music that ever came out of the US, although it did lead up to some great stuff.

The real interesting fact about picking on the thai people is that so many think they are up to par for the 21 century when they are still living in the 1950's. If they understood where they exist in the world and except it for what it is it would be difficult to find fault with them other than trying to teach them more modern ways that are helpful to their people but too many Thais are just too lazy to care.

[luckyman]

Well, some druggies and drunks aren't broke and are quite positive and happy/successful people.

Maybe don't ride shotgun in their car, but no need to tar people with the negativity brush just because they aren't your typical teatotalling snooty pants.

Thanks for sorting that out, I fully agree

[luckyman]

I'm not sure anyone would be interested in my opinion, but here goes.

The original post is only someone's opinion anyway

Most depression and cynicism in life - anywhere in the world, comes from deeper issues within a person - perhaps exacerbated by outward circumstances.

Many foreigners coming here, will experience a culture shock within the first 2 years, and then, depending on their outward and inward circumstances, go on to enjoy the culture that they are living in to a greater or lesser degree.

Factors in Thailand which can go a long way to aggravating a sense of inward peace can be for any number of the following reasons:

1: Many foreigners here have come for work - they are paid by companies or missions, and they have a stable salary. Thus - they may not be living from their own collected pot of savings, and will find life here considerably better than the drudgery of a grey western climate and bureaucratic rat-race world.

2: Many expats do not speak the lingo - I have always maintained that if you don't speak the language, it is wiser to keep silent about many of the political and cultural happenings, because unless you have a thorough understanding of the historic in these areas, you will be sorely lacking in information and therefore the real truth.

3: The East is NOT the West. There are deep cultural differences that are centuries old and these most Westerners will not understand, nor adopt. These things heavily shape the indigenous people, along with the religions of the country, and are usually vastly different to the West.

4: Many foreigners come here and have ZERO understanding of the way women behave, and look only at their external beauty and do not have anything in common with them, and then can't understand when things go wrong. They lose their money and their integrity, they become jaded and disappointed and angry, but it is their own fault for being so thoroughly dim-witted in the first place.

5: Some come here and just try to "make it" by hanging around bars and gatherings, claiming to have been a big noise back in their home-country - laughable, because if they were so big - why come here? Trying to do business that has longevity with the Thais, if you have no prior experience or someone who is local and is in it with you for the long haul, is extremely rare and very difficult - this can lead to depression and frustration.

6: Inner peace - The old saying goes something along the lines of - you can't run away from your problems, because where-ever you go - there they will be with you. Many people have broken pasts - failed relationships, busted businesses, serious and crippling addictions, and they find, to their horror, that low and behold, after the Thailand honeymoon period, they are still the same persons they were before they arrived! The sun may shine, food may be cheaper, accessing your vices may be easier, but unless you are committed to dealing with your inner demons, it doesn't matter where you are- you will still be a mess inside. Clean up house!! Seek therapy and commit to seeing real and lasting change in your life.

The OP is rather vacuous and generalised. It scratches the surface on the human condition and suggests that the glass half empty scenario is attributed to the locals. Actually - it's not. It's usually to do with inner and outer turbulence, which is often financial and tied to relationship issues.

Chat with some of these people over a longer period of time - get real with them, and you will soon find out that I am correct. Many are carrying the burdens of the pain of years and years, that has not been dealt with.

They were under the illusion that moving to a tropical paradise would somehow heal all hurts and they would have reached a period of peace and contentment. Sadly we know that life isn't always like that.

My post is not to cast judgement on anyone, but merely to point out a truth.

Let's be honest here - there ARE lots of frustrating things about Thai culture - Thais often ARE immature and ill-educated - we know that is true because it's a well documented and statistical fact. This is, after all - a DEVELOPING country.

BUT - it is very possible, and probably advisable for those who have issues in these areas, to just live here peaceably amongst the good folk of Thailand, don't do business with them unless necessary, and enjoy their food and countryside etc, and don't have anything to do with girls and ladies who use bars and nightclubs for a start, as their main source of income.

If you want a fulfilling relationship with a Thai national, learn more about their culture and obviously- make sure that you have as many similarities as possible. We all know that successful relationships that have longevity are those that are built on similarities - NOT differences.

If you come from the similar financial backgrounds, have similar spiritual beliefs and similar family and moral/ethical points of view, then you are much more likely to have a successful relationship.

If you can't even speak the same language, then no matter how good the other person may look on the outside, it's unlikely that your search to mesh spiritually and emotionally, will succeed.

A person of stability and inner peace will learn how to live ANYWHERE successfully.

Lastly - don't fall into the trap of the culture of face and comparisons. It's killing Asia, and it will kill you too.

Fantastic post, well-written and especially this part:

" 2: Many expats do not speak the lingo - I have always maintained that if you don't speak the language, it is wiser to keep silent about many of the political and cultural happenings, because unless you have a thorough understanding of the historic in these areas, you will be sorely lacking in information and therefore the real truth." as well as

"If you can't even speak the same language, then no matter how good the other person may look on the outside, it's unlikely that your search to mesh spiritually and emotionally, will succeed."

Today less than 1 % of expats living here speak Thai, and less than 0.1% can read and/or write, incredible isn't it?

Although speaking the local language and understanding the local culture is a must in my opinion to adapt successfully in any country, it can also show you some very ugly sides of a society that others would never know about hence they can enjoy life in that country more freely and less worrisome, ignorance can be a great blessing is disguise here....

[KarenBravo]

Yup, let's sweep the corruption, stupidity, inept government departments, dysfunctional education system, bent cops, lying-to-save-face, etc. etc. under the carpet by not mentioning it and call anyone that does a whiner. Good idea.

When I watch a movie, I'm prepared to suspend belief as it's a necessity to enjoy the movie. The same in real life will make you a victim.

Glass half empty, or, half full?

What dummies; the glass is always full, it's just the water to air ratio we have to determine...........

Edited March 15, 2015 by KarenBravo

[muntergok]

Which are you ?

" A weary traveler was trudging along a dusty road, thinking about where he could spend the night. Far off in the distance, he saw the towering walls of a city, and he wondered if this would be a good place to seek hospitality.

As he approached the city, he saw a sage sitting under a tree.

"Tell me, good sir," said the traveler. "Do you know this city?"

"Indeed I do," said the sage.

"Then perhaps you could tell me what kind of people live here?"

"I certainly can," said the sage. "But first tell me what kind of people live in your own city."

"My own city?" said the traveler, his eyes shifting back over his shoulder. "It is an evil place. The people are nasty. They watch you all the time with suspicious eyes, and they whisper about you behind your back. Stay away if you know what's good for you."

"Well, I am afraid you are out of luck, my friend," said the sage. "Unfortunately, you will find exactly the same kind of people here."

A short while later, a second traveler approached the city. He too saw the sage under the tree and decided to inquire about the inhabitants.

"I will be glad to tell you," said the sage. "But first tell me what kind of people live in your own city."

"My own city?" said the second traveler. "It is such a wonderful place. The people are kind and considerate. They are always eager to help each other in any way they can."

"I'm happy to tell you, my young friend," said the sage, "that you have come to the right place. Those are just the kind of people you will find here. I think you will find this city a most compatible place."

which are you ?

PS. I posted this so have dibs on the sage !

Edited March 15, 2015 by muntergok

[luckyman]

The funny thing really is actually, that the article could have been published on any expat forum in any place elsewhere in the world.

in the Caribbean, in Africa, in China every place where a lot of foreign expats live and work, you will find loads of unhappy people, unsuccessfull people, drunks and druggies.

Just because of the women here that are so motivated to get a farang (compare this to Cambodia or Laos for instance, where the women are not so easily distracted and not at all interested in Westerners for a husband), a lot of people come here just for that, women.

And therein lies the cause of 90% of the problems or unhappiness of expats in Thailand, as a 50 year old expecting that your 26 year old gf or wife really loves you for who you are...

[emilymat]

I think the article is a bit too simplistic in that it seems to suggest ex-pats (how I hate that word) are either 'happy' or 'bitter'.

I've lived here in retirement for 7 years and I would much prefer to use the word 'content' with my lot except for certain key things that nag away at me. I'll come back to that in a moment.

Having lived alone in the UK for 10 years leading up to retirement I find living alone here generally no problem. The big difference is I had a flat in the UK and a house here (rented). I would add that I wasn't lonely living alone by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, I had a very busy people orientated job and I was often delighted to get home and close the door and put my feet up. However, I think that 7 dreary winters in the UK, in a flat, would have put me 6 feet under by now!

I don't drink or go to bars, but that my decision and I have no negative view on people that do.

I have no Thai wife or g/f, as I've seen two of my mates suffer badly financially trying to live the dream.

I very much like the idea of waking up each day knowing it's going to be warm, even if it is raining.

I watch UK TV and listen to UK radio a lot. Currently I am enjoying the cricket world cup.

My Thai neighbours are very nice and so is my landlady.

I play the occasional game of golf and have a number of friends from that pastime.

Washing, cooking, cleaning etc is no problem as I did it in the UK.

In other words I am generally content with my decision to live here and have no immediate problems.

However, I'm upping sticks this summer and going to Spain. Why?

Well essentially it's economic and health. When I came here it was 71 baht to the pound and I budgeted for around that figure. (Bearing in mind my UK pension has been frozen for that period) Now, it fluctuates around 48/49 and I see no prospect of it improving.

The other reason is the cost of healthcare. I can't get health insurance (other than for 400-500 pounds per month!) simply because of age. This is a constant worry as, although I'm fit and healthy at 73, and go for long walks almost daily, I'm not stupid enough to realise that all of a sudden the worst happens. Seen it twice already with friends who moved over here at the same time as me.

I'm going to miss the weather here (Spain is a compromise - warmer than the UK and the pound is strong against the Euro and my pension will be 'unfrozen")

Sorry this has been a bit of a screed, but I wanted to point out that there is another group who are not doing cartwheels down the road because they are 'happy', or are as miserable as sin and complaining all the time.

I'll miss Thailand, with all its perceived 'faults' but I'm afraid pragmatism rules!.

By the way, an earlier poster who was, I think, 49 y.o. and 'retired' here, said he was very happy. I'm sure he is, but I suspect he has no financial concerns and can easily get health insurance. Good luck to you mate - I mean that.

[blundaman]

I wonder where you got that picture, George ... It's hilarious... well, in a way.

Indeed a photo is worth a thousand words !!

Great article, thanks.

The French writer André Gide went in 1925/26 to the Congo (then a French colony) and published a book about his trip in 1927. He was appalled by the colons attitude in pretty much every respect, and towards the locals in particular (then labelled indigènes). Gide summed up their behaviour with this remarkable pearl :

Moins le blanc est intelligent, plus le noir lui paraît bête, which means : the less intelligent a white colon is, the more he claims that blacks are stupid.

Every time I read a Thai-bashing post on this forum I think of that phrase, and I have to laugh ...

On the same subject, I recently read 'Burmese Days', George Orwell's first novel published in 1934, based on his experience as a member of the British Police force in the North of Myanmar (then called Burma). I can't recommend it highly enough to expats or would-be expats.

Got to agree with you, Orwell's "Burmese Days" is an absolutely spiffing read squire, very funny too... I bet the Monty Python crew found plenty of inspiration in his pages, should be required reading for all TVF members ..or any Python fan for that matter

Read allaboutit right'ear http://www.george-orwell.org/Burmese_Days/0.html

[strapper1]

• Advanced Members
• 5,143 posts

Posted Today, 11:32

It's easy to form negative impressions of Thais in general. The easiest thing to dislike about them is that they don't live in an authentic experience with others. They are generally deceitful in all aspects of their relationships. To the outsider, this is not understandable. The foreigner or expat also has a negative view of Thais for their lack of responsibility and commitment. They reneg on business deals and personal promises. They manipulate the facts to suit their self absorbed interests. Thais don't read, they are not interested in classical art, music or world history.

Thais generally have little or no awareness of western culture. They live in a total state of denial about their society and its reality. They have little or no intellectual curiosity or passion about much. They have little work ethic and their sense of value is most limited to material things and money. Just look at the way Thais splay out money at any event. Random acts of truthfulness and honesty are big news in the Thai press. Thais love secrecy, exclusion, and opaqueness in society, business, and life in general. Thais rarely if ever take responsibility and never say I'm sorry, I made a mistake. When expats get together, it's easy to complain about Thais because something has always just happened that has them shaking their heads about Thais. Expats who don't complain about Thais are living in the same false reality and unauthentic life experience. Expats who never complain about Thais or Thailand are being deceitful to themselves or they've become Thai thinking in a land where Thais will never accept them for who they really are.

When it comes to Thai bashing, you take first place. You sound like a very disturbed person. I hope you get some much needed help!

[Commerce]

I only just read the OP, and following posts. I am utterly disgusted at this racist thread about expats, and the perceived author's ideas about what any ex-pat thinks about Thailand and/or our lives here. I see there is no name attached to this pathetic ramble, so I simply say whoever created it: you are a dip-stick! You have no idea about love or respect, and you (come forth and name yourself) are a disgrace to Thailand and its attitudes that you attempt (negatively) to support. Shame on you!

As for my glass, well I just filled it because I can. Now go do what your measly salary pays you to do, and write (if you can) something that carries support (cited) and relevancy to all the ex-pats who live in Thailand and pay large amounts of money, continuously, to maintain our uninvited stay. When you achieve that, which I very much doubt you can, send me a PM. Until then......... GO DO ONE... PREFERABLY IN THE TOILET, ALONE! ...........

[fey]

The author is critical of thailand expats specifically. The theory would occur anywhere regardless of country.

They need to look at why they are targeting one group of people.

Do complainers have the right to be here, sure they do. Telling them to go home and be unhappy there is nobody's solution.

Seems to be doing to thailand expats the same thing they are being sccused of doing to the thais, interesting.

Edited March 15, 2015 by fey

[HerbalEd]

This article has summed up 90% of the sad acts on this forum.

I doubt it's anywhere near 90% ... but there's definitely a significant number who fit the description.

[Commerce]

The author is critical of thailand expats specifically. The theory would occur anywhere regardless of country.

They need to look at why they are targeting one group of people.

It's fairly clear that the author is a noob head, or prawn slinger!

Edited March 15, 2015 by Commerce

[Commerce]

This article has summed up 90% of the sad acts on this forum.

I doubt it's anywhere near 90% ... but there's definitely a significant number who fit the description.

Care to name a few?

[loonodingle]

The bottom line for Brits is thinking about the uk enviro, nightlife for example. Some big old barmaid trying to serve 4 customers at the same time or a bevy of lithe honeys all but pouring the drink down your neck. and u can have that if you want. Na Hands....LOL.... Amazing Thailand. Why sit in your home countrys waiting to die of old age. Go to Thailand and live your life in the warm weather with everything on tap. You may die younger but hey what a life!!!!

[HerbalEd]

I've traveled to over sixty countries and been an expat in several third-world countries ... and there's always a significant amount of bitter whining expats. I don't know that Thailand has a lot more or if I just see a concentration on tv.com.

[Commerce]

I've traveled to over sixty countries and been an expat in several third-world countries ... and there's always a significant amount of bitter whining expats. I don't know that Thailand has a lot more or if I just see a concentration on tv.com.

So have I. But I have also used the internet since its inception, and am able to realise that most website posters don't really post what their true motions are. In fact, I'd go one further: the majority of posters post for fun, for reaction, to test their own knowledge, learn about things they never have before, and don't represent true colours of what is really happening. I see you didn't learn as much as you thought you did about your perception of whining, of what is real or not on the internet, and your own perspectives gained from the internet. Good Luck - especially in your final country - prob back home to the US I believe, seeing as us Brits spell travelled correctly, with 2 'l's.

Edit: Why did I pick up on your Americanism? You are generalising all ex-pats living in Thailand into one box, as per your own perception. Think about that, and recognise how wrong you are (recognize - if you didn't understand the latter).

Edited March 15, 2015 by Commerce

[northernphil]

I was watching Thailands Got tallent last night , the older prog. with that lovely LB Bell Nunita. Look at the comments in English about her/him. Then be thankfull that those folk who commemted don't want to live here. They dispise the place but have never been here , couldn't find TOS on a large map of the world. I bloody hope I wasn't as blinkered as they are before coming here. Now my home and I love it Ladyboys 'n all.

[mango66]

download.png

that curve is wrong,

you never ever will rach a level of satisfaction, similar high to honeymoon !!

reality is 10 times lower than honey moon,

but to see the reality you need years and you need a thai family !!

[Commerce]

I was watching Thailands Got tallent last night , the older prog. with that lovely LB Bell Nunita. Look at the comments in English about her/him. Then be thankfull that those folk who commemted don't want to live here. They dispise the place but have never been here , couldn't find TOS on a large map of the world. I bloody hope I wasn't as blinkered as they are before coming here. Now my home and I love it Ladyboys 'n all.

We all have our own little problems, sweetie.

[mango66]

This article has summed up 90% of the sad acts on this forum.

I doubt it's anywhere near 90% ... but there's definitely a significant number who fit the description.

you should look better on absolute figures and not on a %age of something !!

[Luxfare]

Haha haha Love it......it's pretty much described about 70% of the TVF posters.

[KarenBravo]

Yup, let's sweep the corruption, stupidity, inept government departments, dysfunctional education system, bent cops, lying-to-save-face, etc. etc. under the carpet by not mentioning it and call anyone that does a whiner. Good idea.

When I watch a movie, I'm prepared to suspend belief as it's a necessity to enjoy the movie. The same in real life will make you a victim.

Glass half empty, or, half full?

What dummies; the glass is always full, it's just the water to air ratio we have to determine...........

Now, you may think that from my above post that I'm one of those who are bitter and twisted and may ask the question why do I stay in Thailand?

My answer is that the OP infers that this is an either/or situation. It ain't.

I've lived in SE Asia for 35 years and in Thailand for thirty of them.

I am very happy. Why? I like the weather, the geography and way of life.

True...over the years, I have grown more cynical, but, I think this is natural as you gain more knowledge and insight into how this country works.

Every time I get to the stage where I'm on a real downer about the locals, one of them does something for me so gob-smackingly kind and selfless, something that just wouldn't happen in my own country, that my faith is restored.

I guess what I'm saying is that you can moan and complain, and yet, still be very happy here. If I didn't point out things that I think are wrong and just kept quiet because of worrying what other people think of me, then, I would lose my self-respect.

[LivinLOS]

While I agree with the underlying message.. some parts are so 180 degree to my experiences here..

Most of the problems people have experienced in Thailand came from expats – not Thais.

That for example.. No expats have stolen from me.. No expats destroyed my villa.. No expats broke my bones.. No expats damaged my stuff and had no money to give restitution.. No expats drove illegally and had no insurance when they sent me to hospital.. It wasnt expat Doctors who assured me everything was fine and she didnt need ICU hours before my wife died.. Etc Etc etc..

Every single one of the real bad things that have happened to me.. Some of which have been life changing and traumatic.. None of those things were done by expats.

[mango66]

• Advanced Members
• 5,143 posts

Posted Today, 11:32

It's easy to form negative impressions of Thais in general. The easiest thing to dislike about them is that they don't live in an authentic experience with others. They are generally deceitful in all aspects of their relationships. To the outsider, this is not understandable. The foreigner or expat also has a negative view of Thais for their lack of responsibility and commitment. They reneg on business deals and personal promises. They manipulate the facts to suit their self absorbed interests. Thais don't read, they are not interested in classical art, music or world history.

Thais generally have little or no awareness of western culture. They live in a total state of denial about their society and its reality. They have little or no intellectual curiosity or passion about much. They have little work ethic and their sense of value is most limited to material things and money. Just look at the way Thais splay out money at any event. Random acts of truthfulness and honesty are big news in the Thai press. Thais love secrecy, exclusion, and opaqueness in society, business, and life in general. Thais rarely if ever take responsibility and never say I'm sorry, I made a mistake. When expats get together, it's easy to complain about Thais because something has always just happened that has them shaking their heads about Thais. Expats who don't complain about Thais are living in the same false reality and unauthentic life experience. Expats who never complain about Thais or Thailand are being deceitful to themselves or they've become Thai thinking in a land where Thais will never accept them for who they really are.

When it comes to Thai bashing, you take first place. You sound like a very disturbed person. I hope you get some much needed help!

can just agree with you,

15 years thai life experiance !

[tcris52]

If you've lived here long enough, you would know that the glass is only an illusion.

[yellowboat]

If all of your eggs are in the Thai basket, you will lose most of the time. Happiest people are those have interests in other parts of Asia or world.

Thailand use to be a great place to develop a business and execute it else where. Sadly it is not anymore.

[55Jay]

The author is named "Editor".

Most cynical expats of a certain age in Chiang Mai, and a few bar owners, know him, and his twin sister, all too well.

Editor is an unemployed, work permit free, 20 something digital nomad cum blogger cum web content developer on a part-time spiritual journey to, quote, "find myself". You've likely seen around CM taking photos of soi dogs, eating sweet sticky rice & mango and wai'ing small children on the street.

Editor sat on his duff at ______ beer bar and 6 hours later, submitted this desperate, tired old chestnut to his exploitative, but equally desperate, editor at Chiang Mai rag online.

After 6 hours of free WIFI, Editor "check bin'ed" a total of 1 small Leo and 6 free buckets of ice, asked the miserable old expats for advice how to do his first tourist visa border run, then left the bar without even leaving a measly 20 Baht tip for Nok.

Quality tourists who've done more for Thailand in two weeks than all the miserable old gits who live here ever have.

[mango66]

The funny thing really is actually, that the article could have been published on any expat forum in any place elsewhere in the world.

in the Caribbean, in Africa, in China every place where a lot of foreign expats live and work, you will find loads of unhappy people, unsuccessfull people, drunks and druggies.

Just because of the women here that are so motivated to get a farang (compare this to Cambodia or Laos for instance, where the women are not so easily distracted and not at all interested in Westerners for a husband), a lot of people come here just for that, women.

And therein lies the cause of 90% of the problems or unhappiness of expats in Thailand, as a 50 year old expecting that your 26 year old gf or wife really loves you for who you are...

my one is only 24 compared,

and she loves me and have born me 2 nice childrens !

But my view about thailand has not increased like OP thinking,

its down on the reality, how Thais are !!

Even you try to have just the few percent good ones around you,

the daily life needs that you have to deal every day with the bad ones and their bad bahavier !!