Expatitis in Thailand, Is Your Glass Half Empty or Half Full?

[mikemac]

Personally, I find the 'head in the sand' brigade more annoying than the whiners. There is nothing wrong in seeing a place for what it is, to walk around with blinkers on makes people appear none too clever and somewhat in denial. The author of the article sounds like a bitter person himself, and etiquette is a word usually associated with politeness, so completely misused in the context that he chose for it.

The most miserable expats here are the ones who seem to have no interests. The happiest have at least 3 interests, perhaps 1 sporting and 2 intellectual. And often a full time job on top of that. Too much time on your hands is a big problem. Highest points on the misery index always go to the alcoholics and the old sex-pats. Those two groups just seem to be caught in a nightmare cycle of despair.

Totally agree. Two types of farangs here, those who sit and think and those who just sit.

Mind you I have no objections reading the odd rant on here, so more entertaining than the rose tinted mob. "my life is wonderful since moving here__________"

I doubt if the op would have even been written if not for people like you !

[smudger1951]

This feed is good example of the futility of forums.

[Kerryd]

My empty cup doth overflow with glad tidings and cheer ! Whilst it may lack in substance and material wealth, it holds an endless abundance of hope and dreams (and a couple shots of Jack/Coke now and then) !

[Luxfare]

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Claptrap, some people call a spade a spade and dont tart it up or pretend it doesnt exist and everything is "wonderful"

I mean ..........".Most of the problems people have experienced in Thailand came from expats – not Thais."

Seeing as the majority of people I come into contact with are Thais this is one example of claptrap, just on numbers alone its way more likely a Thai will give me a problem than an expat

Claptrap for you maybe. I come into contact with a tonne more Thais than Expat however I've only had two near fights in this country in 4 years.....one a drunken middle aged Scotsman and the other a drunken middle aged Londoner. Thailand isn't perfect but I'm guessing none of us left a perfect Paradise to come here.

[Daniel Ingalls]

.......With that said.....this forum is full of negative people that have nothing better to do then criticize Thailand, the government, the people, their way of

life, and the stupid things they see. If you don't like it LEAVE! NO ONE ASKED, for your negative comments. To many instances I see where some of you gang up on another OP. Some of you old timers no what I mean. There is an old saying, which holds some truths. "If you can't say something nice to someone, its best not to say anything at all.".......My glass is not half empty, or half full.............its reached an equilibrium state.

[loonodingle]

While I agree with the underlying message.. some parts are so 180 degree to my experiences here..

Most of the problems people have experienced in Thailand came from expats – not Thais.

That for example.. No expats have stolen from me.. No expats destroyed my villa.. No expats broke my bones.. No expats damaged my stuff and had no money to give restitution.. No expats drove illegally and had no insurance when they sent me to hospital.. It wasnt expat Doctors who assured me everything was fine and she didnt need ICU hours before my wife died.. Etc Etc etc..

Every single one of the real bad things that have happened to me.. Some of which have been life changing and traumatic.. None of those things were done by expats.

Unfortunately there's a limited amount of money going around and many are trying to hang on to their life here without the means to do it. Theft and fraud. Fake lawyers. Dodgy developers Bolier room frauds, and I bet many of the readers here will have known at least someone who has been ripped off unless u are a newbie..... still it goes on in all country's I guess. its just you find it in concentrated areas of Thailand which makes it seem worse. Pattaya, Phuket Hua Hin Etc.

[reptile91602]

""""It's easy to form negative impressions of Thais in general. The easiest thing to dislike about them is that they don't live in an authentic experience with others. They are generally deceitful in all aspects of their relationships. To the outsider, this is not understandable. The foreigner or expat also has a negative view of Thais for their lack of responsibility and commitment. They reneg on business deals and personal promises. They manipulate the facts to suit their self absorbed interests. Thais don't read, they are not interested in classical art, music or world history.

Thais generally have little or no awareness of western culture. They live in a total state of denial about their society and its reality. They have little or no intellectual curiosity or passion about much. They have little work ethic and their sense of value is most limited to material things and money. Just look at the way Thais splay out money at any event. Random acts of truthfulness and honesty are big news in the Thai press. Thais love secrecy, exclusion, and opaqueness in society, business, and life in general. Thais rarely if ever take responsibility and never say I'm sorry, I made a mistake. When expats get together, it's easy to complain about Thais because something has always just happened that has them shaking their heads about Thais. Expats who don't complain about Thais are living in the same false reality and unauthentic life experience. Expats who never complain about Thais or Thailand are being deceitful to themselves or they've become Thai thinking in a land where Thais will never accept them for who they really are.""""

One of the best analysis of Thai people I ever read and the conclusion is right on. Even my Thai wife and family say wow that is right on!

[jarhead50200]

I love these articles, really brings out the cynical defenders, hoorah

[Traveller45]

Very good article. I wholeheartedly agree. There is, of course, a bottom line question that the article didn't mention, and that everybody should ask himself or herself before moving here: Do I LIKE it in Thailand? Do I like it in the tropics, do I like it warm? Will I miss stuff from home? Some Germans I know routinely move to Croatia, to the Baleares or somewhere else in the South for the whole holiday season, 3 months, some of them. They bring their beer and bockwurst sausage, have their TV sets set to their fav home channels, their home newspapers. I mean, do they even travel? Is not my case, all this. I love it in the tropics, and I love foreign cultures. Thai food is sublime. If ever I get tired of being in those far away places, one short trip home will do to convince me of all the right reasons why I left in the first place.

[Emster23]

My glass is neither half full nor half empty: I prefer to drink straight from the bottle. One of Buddhas noble truths is "All life is suffering" (Thailand included). Everywhere has issues, and to think you can find a place without problems is rather infantile imho.

[LALes]

Glass is 5/6 full. Get rid of Hot Season and Songkran and I'd never leave.

[Bernard Flint]

""""It's easy to form negative impressions of Thais in general. The easiest thing to dislike about them is that they don't live in an authentic experience with others. They are generally deceitful in all aspects of their relationships. To the outsider, this is not understandable. The foreigner or expat also has a negative view of Thais for their lack of responsibility and commitment. They reneg on business deals and personal promises. They manipulate the facts to suit their self absorbed interests. Thais don't read, they are not interested in classical art, music or world history.

Thais generally have little or no awareness of western culture. They live in a total state of denial about their society and its reality. They have little or no intellectual curiosity or passion about much. They have little work ethic and their sense of value is most limited to material things and money. Just look at the way Thais splay out money at any event. Random acts of truthfulness and honesty are big news in the Thai press. Thais love secrecy, exclusion, and opaqueness in society, business, and life in general. Thais rarely if ever take responsibility and never say I'm sorry, I made a mistake. When expats get together, it's easy to complain about Thais because something has always just happened that has them shaking their heads about Thais. Expats who don't complain about Thais are living in the same false reality and unauthentic life experience. Expats who never complain about Thais or Thailand are being deceitful to themselves or they've become Thai thinking in a land where Thais will never accept them for who they really are.""""

One of the best analysis of Thai people I ever read and the conclusion is right on. Even my Thai wife and family say wow that is right on!

SIR

A fairly decent post, but if true, then we should all stop moaning and except that thais are different than SOME non thais. The moaning about chinese, indians, japanese,farangs are truily gobshiiiiiites hahahahahah.

I even see some posts and the normal bar chat, is that thais hate farangs, no bloody wonder hahahahahahah.My life is great here, but i have a positive attitude,sober most of the time,and have money.

[mongoose11]

When I read the word "expatitis" in the headline I thought the article would address the issue which is much more underlying than the "cheat, lie, stupid" opinions that soon wear off when you've been here 3yrs plus say or less or more.

In fact the writer kinda comes across as a bit Tim - nice but dim - sorry.

Expatitis I thought you were going to explore - as is reflected in that man's face - is depression, loneliness, lack of money, alcohol issues, developing an unexpected routine of drinking on their own, wanting to be a part of something they can't tap into, feeling like they just need to get out there that doesn't involve drinking, a depleting self esteem, lack of drive, feel like the worlds passing them by, that they're wasting their years, watching life go on at home and see people develop careers, advance, have kids, missing the boat, not a loser but just feeling trapped and not having the dollar to get out - hence suicide.

Just saying - these are some of the issues that I would consider expatitis.

All those that walk around bitching don't hang do so for long I don't think - I mean there is a natural progression in most to develop and move on from those thoughts while still maintaining their own inner battles.

I might be way off though.

[catweazle]

My glass is more than half full for 23 years by now. Yet, I believe that it is ok, necessary and I believe human, to have a good rant from time to time. It clears the air and mind like a thunderstorm. Anyone who states it's all roses and all so wonderful over here is lying as much as a husband stating that he and his wife never had an argument in over 20 years. There are PROs and CONs in any country and the PROs in Thailand (at least to me) outweigh by far the CONs, especially if I look at Europe and the western world in general at the moment. People tend to blame others for their own shortcomings and many think that a change of location will solve all their problems, not understanding that they are carrying the problems in their heads along with them to wherever they go. I stay away from those types, and especially the ones who achieve nothing but spreading negativity. Served me well and I am still happy about and greatful for being allowed to live in this wondeful, yet strange, country.

[berybert]

.......With that said.....this forum is full of negative people that have nothing better to do then criticize Thailand, the government, the people, their way of

life, and the stupid things they see. If you don't like it LEAVE! NO ONE ASKED, for your negative comments. To many instances I see where some of you gang up on another OP. Some of you old timers no what I mean. There is an old saying, which holds some truths. "If you can't say something nice to someone, its best not to say anything at all.".......My glass is not half empty, or half full.............its reached an equilibrium state.

What a strange half assed post. OK lets all say yippy to everything the Thai's do because we are living in their country.

One way of making sure nothing ever gets better is to never complain about anything.

Holes in the pavements, no problem, bikes on the pavement, no problem, 26,000 people killed on the roads every year, no problem... Its all good no ?

[kannot]

This is all well and good but some of us here encounter situations that make one despair. I am heavily involved with cycle-sport here. I am a coach trainer, in a personal voluntary and free capacity, to Thai kids. I have spent five years trying to help them progress in this sport as much as I can. This year the Thai Cycling Association has defied their undertaking to the Union Cycliste Internationale and to the Olympic movement by introducing higher fees to 'farangs' for their UCI cycle racing/coaching licence. Under UCI rules the country in which you live MUST provide you with this licence. However this year the TCA want to charge 'farangs' 5 x more than Thais. This is against Article 3 of the UCI as well as the Olympic Charter's articles on equality. They also want proof of residence (fair enough) except when that proof is provided they still will not issue the licence. Why? The Thais are fed up of the foreign riders here some of whom (not me) are stronger than the Thais. Thus when UCI ranking points are on offer, the Thais don't get them all. Their answer a) doctor the results so that no foreigner appears on the official results that the UCI receives (easily checked as the podium pics and the official results don't match) and deny them a race licence. When I see this unsporting practice and the extent to which the Thais go to cheat and lie their way through my beloved sport, I just want to call it a day. If anyone tries to speak to the Police General who is the TCA's head honcho, then he just cuts the call. My Thai wife is also appalled at how Thai society (in her view) has deteriorated and people, she says, are more dishonest than ever, more greedy than ever and so on. Our house is for sale. When someone buys it, we'll go. Enough is enough.

Its really not farangs who think bad of the Thais, many Thais say the same to my Wife people greedy selfish now, all money and dont care, lazy etc

This from the few friends we have

[Zzon]

Ether your running for PM of Thailand or President of the world, your analogy is totally out of this world! But then again it's your opinion!

[Beetlejuice]

its the crumpet that drags them down into despair ,things never pan out as well as they would like due to the money demands that leave them potless

To a point but there is much more to it than that.

I agree with most of the article in the OP, but the problem being, where do they find all these positive people?

Many westerners come to Thailand believing they have found a new Utopia, an affordable paradise where they are going to find new romances, make new and exciting friends, sitting by the pool drinking gin and tonics with a dolly bird on each arm, the phone never stops ringing with invites, a party atmosphere every night of the week. Then after a couple of years the reality begins to smack them in their faces, desirable women come with a price tag, difficult to meet compatible ex-pat friends and the frustrations of the laid back, mai pen rai attitudes of the Thais.

In Thailand it is possible to be with people but still live in isolation, having no one to really relate to and no one to share the burdens of problems and concerns with if there are troubling things on the mind. Some come to Thailand to live a dream, fail or refuse to see the realities of situations and end up self destructing themselves, emotionally and financially.

What many fail to realise is that back in our home countries most of us have already established our lives around family, friends, neighbors and work colleges. Moving half way across the world starting from scratch is no easy task, especially for the older generations. All these issues should be taken seriously into consideration prior to plonking themselves here for the long term.

[kannot]

""""It's easy to form negative impressions of Thais in general. The easiest thing to dislike about them is that they don't live in an authentic experience with others. They are generally deceitful in all aspects of their relationships. To the outsider, this is not understandable. The foreigner or expat also has a negative view of Thais for their lack of responsibility and commitment. They reneg on business deals and personal promises. They manipulate the facts to suit their self absorbed interests. Thais don't read, they are not interested in classical art, music or world history.

Thais generally have little or no awareness of western culture. They live in a total state of denial about their society and its reality. They have little or no intellectual curiosity or passion about much. They have little work ethic and their sense of value is most limited to material things and money. Just look at the way Thais splay out money at any event. Random acts of truthfulness and honesty are big news in the Thai press. Thais love secrecy, exclusion, and opaqueness in society, business, and life in general. Thais rarely if ever take responsibility and never say I'm sorry, I made a mistake. When expats get together, it's easy to complain about Thais because something has always just happened that has them shaking their heads about Thais. Expats who don't complain about Thais are living in the same false reality and unauthentic life experience. Expats who never complain about Thais or Thailand are being deceitful to themselves or they've become Thai thinking in a land where Thais will never accept them for who they really are.""""

One of the best analysis of Thai people I ever read and the conclusion is right on. Even my Thai wife and family say wow that is right on!

I try VERY hard to like the Thais I try but Im continually disappointed mainly for the above reasons I cannot and will not accept the lies/half truths and crap they often spew.

[DM07]

Ain't stereotyping and easy-way-out-solutions fun?

[bannork]

It's nearly 6.00 pm and the birds have been singing for the last half hour. The day has been a scorcher as March and April always are, but if you stay out of the sun and catch the breeze it's bearable .Mother emailed earlier from the UK, damn cold she said- tell me something new.

Family are fine, The 2 year old grandson is playing outdoors with his cousins, riding a broom, the three of them think they're on a plane or motorbike, i'm not sure. Neighbours wander round, the usual grannies and aunts. There's always humour in the air, sometimes voices are lowered( gossip time) but laughter is always breaking out.

It's been mentioned already, but it's undoubtedly true- if you have interests- a job, hobbies, farming, intellectual pursuits- whatever grabs your fancy- then you're halfway to contentment already.

Secondly, once you get to over 50 for example, you need a family, a warm environment and surroundings- i'm lucky in that apart from my own family, my wife has a lovely sister and brothers with great nephews and nieces and now their offspring. This sort of thing can be luck- i know some farangs who have married into dysfunctional families- their error was impatience- they were too eager to settle down and didn't really grasp who they were marrying and would be living with.

In my view if you have these 2 things life in Thailand is wonderful.

[reptile91602]

""""It's nearly 6.00 pm and the birds have been singing for the last half hour. The day has been a scorcher as March and April always are, but if you stay out of the sun and catch the breeze it's bearable .Mother emailed earlier from the UK, damn cold she said- tell me something new.

Family are fine, The 2 year old grandson is playing outdoors with his cousins, riding a broom, the three of them think they're on a plane or motorbike, i'm not sure. Neighbours wander round, the usual grannies and aunts. There's always humour in the air, sometimes voices are lowered( gossip time) but laughter is always breaking out.

It's been mentioned already, but it's undoubtedly true- if you have interests- a job, hobbies, farming, intellectual pursuits- whatever grabs your fancy- then you're halfway to contentment already.

Secondly, once you get to over 50 for example, you need a family, a warm environment and surroundings- i'm lucky in that apart from my own family, my wife has a lovely sister and brothers with great nephews and nieces and now their offspring. This sort of thing can be luck- i know some farangs who have married into dysfunctional families- their error was impatience- they were too eager to settle down and didn't really grasp who they were marrying and would be living with.

In my view if you have these 2 things life in Thailand is wonderful.""""

Again an article that spews the truth. I am one of thelucky ones as well by luck I assure you. If my wife wasn't a good Thai wife I would never be in this country. Iwould do my best to look elsewhere yet would I really ever find something better. It alweays comes back to family.

[Foxman888]

Why are white people expats when the rest of us are immigrants?

In the lexicon of human migration there are still hierarchical words, created with the purpose of putting white people above everyone else. One of those remnants is the word “expat”.

What is an expat? And who is an expat? According to Wikipedia, “an expatriate (often shortened to expat) is a person temporarily or permanently residing in a country other than that of the person’s upbringing. The word comes from the Latin terms ex (‘out of’) and patria (‘country, fatherland’)”.

Defined that way, you should expect that any person going to work outside of his or her country for a period of time would be an expat, regardless of his skin colour or country. But that is not the case in reality; expat is a term reserved exclusively for western white people going to work abroad.

Africans are immigrants. Arabs are immigrants. Asians are immigrants. However, Europeans are expats because they can’t be at the same level as other ethnicities. They are superior. Immigrants is a term set aside for ‘inferior races’.

Don’t take my word for it. The Wall Street Journal, the leading financial information magazine in the world, has a blog dedicated to the life of expats and recently they featured a story ‘Who is an expat, anyway?’. Here are the main conclusions: “Some arrivals are described as expats; others as immigrants; and some simply as migrants. It depends on social class, country of origin and economic status. It’s strange to hear some people in Hong Kong described as expats, but not others. Anyone with roots in a western country is considered an expat … Filipino domestic helpers are just guests, even if they’ve been here for decades. Mandarin-speaking mainland Chinese are rarely regarded as expats … It’s a double standard woven into official policy.”

Is there any space in the development debate for African experts?

The reality is the same in Africa and Europe. Top African professionals going to work in Europe are not considered expats. They are immigrants. Period. “I work for multinational organisations both in the private and public sectors. And being black or coloured doesn’t gain me the term “expat”. I’m a highly qualified immigrant, as they call me, to be politically correct,” says an African migrant worker.

Most white people deny that they enjoy the privileges of a racist system. And why not? But our responsibility is to point out and to deny them these privileges, directly related to an outdated supremacist ideology. If you see those “expats” in Africa, call them immigrants like everyone else. If that hurts their white superiority, they can jump in the air and stay there. The political deconstruction of this outdated worldview must continue.

Are Australians, Poles, Romanians, and Bulgarians known as expats or immigrants in the uk? To people in the uk i am an expat, but living in another country the people of that said country would term me as an immigrant.

uness its Thailand of course where we're non immigrants.

[nithisa78]

Here, there, everywhere, life is what we make it.

[MaxLee]

"Expatitis in Thailand, Is Your Glass Half Empty or Half Full?"

Expatitis, are Falang suddenly an unwanted species in Thailand???

[micmichd]

When I read the word "expatitis" in the headline I thought the article would address the issue which is much more underlying than the "cheat, lie, stupid" opinions that soon wear off when you've been here 3yrs plus say or less or more.

In fact the writer kinda comes across as a bit Tim - nice but dim - sorry.

Expatitis I thought you were going to explore - as is reflected in that man's face - is depression, loneliness, lack of money, alcohol issues, developing an unexpected routine of drinking on their own, wanting to be a part of something they can't tap into, feeling like they just need to get out there that doesn't involve drinking, a depleting self esteem, lack of drive, feel like the worlds passing them by, that they're wasting their years, watching life go on at home and see people develop careers, advance, have kids, missing the boat, not a loser but just feeling trapped and not having the dollar to get out - hence suicide.

Just saying - these are some of the issues that I would consider expatitis.

All those that walk around bitching don't hang do so for long I don't think - I mean there is a natural progression in most to develop and move on from those thoughts while still maintaining their own inner battles.

I might be way off though.

[micmichd]

Yeah, when I first read "expatitis" I thought to myself:

OMG, now they found a word for it. Is it contagious or not?

[hawker9000]

This has got to take the prize for troll thread of the year. Really? Can't find anything better to do than moan about moaners? Well, the terminally self-righteous need a hobby, too, I guess.

[menorah]

From the lazy and misspelt article headline and initial picture caption, this is nothing more than a Troll story designed to provoke 'outraged' reaction.

Generalising expat's as mostly prior tourists with a yearning for an 'easy life' fails to embrace the many thousands who remain in Thailand after completion of work contracts or because they have sound knowledge and experience of the country and have actually chosen to be there having considered their decision with utmost care.

In my personal experience, spanning many years, I never came across any expat' who, having failed at assimilation with the country and culture, then became an activist seeking to 'dismantle the kingdom' in revenge for his / her failure.

There have been many times during my own relationship with Thailand when I've bemoaned my situation, the country's politics,' bad' driving or the food in Big C food hall ! For all of this I still believe Thailand offers great opportunities to anyone with intelligence, imagination, motivation and money.

Life is what you make it and does indeed feel better with 'a hop, skip and a jump' in your daily activities but that's an unsustainable 'Utopian' outlook and for many other reasons expatriated persons fail or succeed at home or abroad.

To all 'the winners', I say well done and good luck, to all the 'losers', I say well done for trying and good luck and for those thinking to embark on the 'adventure' I say, do your 'homework' first, take time out to sample different locations, be bold and of course...Good Luck.

[bikerbri]

If you haven’t moved to Thailand yet, understand quite clearly that Thailand is a place and like any place it has its share of problems. Those problems and the solutions to them are usually different to the problems and solutions in their home country.

Can anyone tell me the difference? There are thieves , corrupt officials, crooked police, scam artist, drug dealers, discrimination, double standards in every part of the World. There is no difference.The only difference is that where I came from there are laws,which are for the most part are accepted by the population and where they aren't something is done about it. Telling people to go back to their own countries is the usual calling of people who love to bury their heads in the sand and whose glass may be half full but its doubtful that they are happy with their lot. Or could it be that Chiang Rai is some kind of utopia we all need to visit when we are too old to complain?