Expatitis in Thailand, Is Your Glass Half Empty or Half Full?

[55Jay]

The photo used in the OP is rather suggestive but I happen to know it's possibly inaccurate from the context of this article.

The old boy in the photo, let's call him Hector, could be remembering his Thai wife who, sadly, died last year of cancer and he loves her dearly and misses her terribly. I know, that's sad, but just like that, most would consider Hector a caring, loving man, not a miserable old git who moans all day.

He could, however, be watching a dire television program about global warming, or human trafficking.

Perhaps he's solemnly fascinated by Thailand's natural world, as he watches an army of red ants carry away his ham sandwich.

Could be listening to one of his 20 mates tell a joke to the group during their weekly chin wag session at his basha. Right after this photo was taken, they all erupted into glorious laughter that would lead any observer to smile, and think they were the happiest bunch of expat retirees in Thailand.

Next time you run across someone like the author of the OP, put on a happy face for them. You know, fake it until you make it:

Some of you might decide instead to show the kid what you really think about him and his opinion about you and your life:

[Tomtomtom69]

I'm not sure anyone would be interested in my opinion, but here goes.

The original post is only someone's opinion anyway

Most depression and cynicism in life - anywhere in the world, comes from deeper issues within a person - perhaps exacerbated by outward circumstances.

Many foreigners coming here, will experience a culture shock within the first 2 years, and then, depending on their outward and inward circumstances, go on to enjoy the culture that they are living in to a greater or lesser degree.

Factors in Thailand which can go a long way to aggravating a sense of inward peace can be for any number of the following reasons:

1: Many foreigners here have come for work - they are paid by companies or missions, and they have a stable salary. Thus - they may not be living from their own collected pot of savings, and will find life here considerably better than the drudgery of a grey western climate and bureaucratic rat-race world.

2: Many expats do not speak the lingo - I have always maintained that if you don't speak the language, it is wiser to keep silent about many of the political and cultural happenings, because unless you have a thorough understanding of the historic in these areas, you will be sorely lacking in information and therefore the real truth.

3: The East is NOT the West. There are deep cultural differences that are centuries old and these most Westerners will not understand, nor adopt. These things heavily shape the indigenous people, along with the religions of the country, and are usually vastly different to the West.

4: Many foreigners come here and have ZERO understanding of the way women behave, and look only at their external beauty and do not have anything in common with them, and then can't understand when things go wrong. They lose their money and their integrity, they become jaded and disappointed and angry, but it is their own fault for being so thoroughly dim-witted in the first place.

5: Some come here and just try to "make it" by hanging around bars and gatherings, claiming to have been a big noise back in their home-country - laughable, because if they were so big - why come here? Trying to do business that has longevity with the Thais, if you have no prior experience or someone who is local and is in it with you for the long haul, is extremely rare and very difficult - this can lead to depression and frustration.

6: Inner peace - The old saying goes something along the lines of - you can't run away from your problems, because where-ever you go - there they will be with you. Many people have broken pasts - failed relationships, busted businesses, serious and crippling addictions, and they find, to their horror, that low and behold, after the Thailand honeymoon period, they are still the same persons they were before they arrived! The sun may shine, food may be cheaper, accessing your vices may be easier, but unless you are committed to dealing with your inner demons, it doesn't matter where you are- you will still be a mess inside. Clean up house!! Seek therapy and commit to seeing real and lasting change in your life.

The OP is rather vacuous and generalised. It scratches the surface on the human condition and suggests that the glass half empty scenario is attributed to the locals. Actually - it's not. It's usually to do with inner and outer turbulence, which is often financial and tied to relationship issues.

Chat with some of these people over a longer period of time - get real with them, and you will soon find out that I am correct. Many are carrying the burdens of the pain of years and years, that has not been dealt with.

They were under the illusion that moving to a tropical paradise would somehow heal all hurts and they would have reached a period of peace and contentment. Sadly we know that life isn't always like that.

My post is not to cast judgement on anyone, but merely to point out a truth.

Let's be honest here - there ARE lots of frustrating things about Thai culture - Thais often ARE immature and ill-educated - we know that is true because it's a well documented and statistical fact. This is, after all - a DEVELOPING country.

BUT - it is very possible, and probably advisable for those who have issues in these areas, to just live here peaceably amongst the good folk of Thailand, don't do business with them unless necessary, and enjoy their food and countryside etc, and don't have anything to do with girls and ladies who use bars and nightclubs for a start, as their main source of income.

If you want a fulfilling relationship with a Thai national, learn more about their culture and obviously- make sure that you have as many similarities as possible. We all know that successful relationships that have longevity are those that are built on similarities - NOT differences.

If you come from the similar financial backgrounds, have similar spiritual beliefs and similar family and moral/ethical points of view, then you are much more likely to have a successful relationship.

If you can't even speak the same language, then no matter how good the other person may look on the outside, it's unlikely that your search to mesh spiritually and emotionally, will succeed.

A person of stability and inner peace will learn how to live ANYWHERE successfully.

Lastly - don't fall into the trap of the culture of face and comparisons. It's killing Asia, and it will kill you too.

Fantastic post, well-written and especially this part:

" 2: Many expats do not speak the lingo - I have always maintained that if you don't speak the language, it is wiser to keep silent about many of the political and cultural happenings, because unless you have a thorough understanding of the historic in these areas, you will be sorely lacking in information and therefore the real truth." as well as

"If you can't even speak the same language, then no matter how good the other person may look on the outside, it's unlikely that your search to mesh spiritually and emotionally, will succeed."

Today less than 1 % of expats living here speak Thai, and less than 0.1% can read and/or write, incredible isn't it?

Although speaking the local language and understanding the local culture is a must in my opinion to adapt successfully in any country, it can also show you some very ugly sides of a society that others would never know about hence they can enjoy life in that country more freely and less worrisome, ignorance can be a great blessing is disguise here....

Where did you get these statistics from? I happen to speak fluent Thai, including reading and writing and am quite comfortable in doing so. I occasionally make contributions to Thai language posts on news sites and social media and can spot spelling mistakes and general factual errors, such as a recent news story, which appears to be hastily written for the purposes of posting to social media, where the author mentioned that a British Airways flight from Heathrow was heading for the country of Dubai. Haha...if they only knew better. There is no such country as Dubai, it's known as the UAE.

But yes, I agree that my knowledge of Thai means that I can understand everything that's going on around me, both the good and the bad. I also understand how language is used as a weapon by some Thais, kinda like "we can keep them ignorant if we don't teach them our language and we don't learn too much of theirs".

[Nowisee]

Personally, I find the 'head in the sand' brigade more annoying than the whiners. There is nothing wrong in seeing a place for what it is, to walk around with blinkers on makes people appear none too clever and somewhat in denial. The author of the article sounds like a bitter person himself, and etiquette is a word usually associated with politeness, so completely misused in the context that he chose for it.

The most miserable expats here are the ones who seem to have no interests. The happiest have at least 3 interests, perhaps 1 sporting and 2 intellectual. And often a full time job on top of that. Too much time on your hands is a big problem. Highest points on the misery index always go to the alcoholics and the old sex-pats. Those two groups just seem to be caught in a nightmare cycle of despair.

This is probably more appropriate than the OP and most of the replies.

I have made my points on TV regarding my issues here and dislikes about thailand and the "head in the sand" brigade are uselessly helpful... the endless go back where you came from replies...hahaha.

I still don't think it's going to be a full time gig for me, as I do think my country is a much more beautiful place and full of endless opportunities. The sporting as you mention is very limited here... i.e. mountain biking, kayaking, hiking, camping and many other things I like to do.

As far as intellectual, I have yet to engage in an intellectual conversation with a thai person from here. Most have been off to the west for some period of time or are from china or philippines and have a grasp of english. Without a doubt the majority are farang from the west.

I feel I am short changing my early retirement years. Maybe in 10 years it will be different here for me... but then again, maybe another asian country will have the leg up on thailand.. I'm hoping PI gets it's shiet together as I prefer the ocean and beaches.

[dean008]

When my glass is half empty or half full I order a refill.

Seriously you can be happy about living somewhere whilst complaining about aspects of life/society you do not like/agree with, if you just accept a lot of the crap that goes on around you you are as guilty as the rest

I like it here, I have been here for about 7 years, however my wife and I plan to move to/back to the UK. Its not because we do not like it here, its because we hope to have children and I am afraid that bringing up a child in Thailand when you have the option of doing so in the UK or many other countries is inexcusable. I am looking out on a 4 lane road in BKK and there is traffic, an ambulance is stuck in that traffic and few cars are letting it pass.

We have enough money not to work, and enough will be left to our Children to allow them to live comfortably, but I want them (or him or her) educated and living in a society that is reasonably well managed. I want them to live in a society where they can report a crime to a real police officer, I want them to have rights, I want them to understand the world, I want them to get by based on their abilities not necessarily their connections, i want justice for them if they are wronged, and in the event of illness or an accident I want them to be able to get to the hospital asap and not be stuck in traffic with mindless people refusing to let their ambulance go by.

[Tomtomtom69]

The government should amedment law to protect farang husband where buying house only control 49% for tourist it's okay not alowed to buy property but with those invest in Thailand should be protected if law protected them from being throw out from the house by thier wife if they hold power to sell it. It would not be the same faith as most of the expat facing suicide or depression.

The laws should be amended to something like: if you have permanent residency or are on a long term visa and married with a Thai you should be able to own so and so much land. Thailand is still very nationalist and for some reason is scared of foreigners investing in the country or putting down roots in the country.

Having said that, there have been some major concessions made over the years, so perhaps one day things will loosen up when it comes to land ownership too. For example, up until the late 1980s, Thailand discriminated heavily against so-called "Luk-khreung" or children born of one foreign and one Thai parent. Usually this was a foreign father and a Thai mother, though not always. They weren't even given citizenship if they were born in Thailand! This was unbelievably racist, but nowadays at least not only does a luk-khreung obtain citizenship by birth if born in Thailand, usually they are also eligible for Thai citizenship if born abroad as long as at least one of the parents is Thai. They also have full rights as any other Thai citizen, including the right to purchase and own land. And despite being able to "choose" between Thai and foreign nationality at the age of 20 I think it is, a luk-khreung can retain both nationalities if they wish so there is no requirement to give up their non-Thai nationality unlike in some other countries where dual nationality is not permitted.

Another example of Thai racism that no longer applies is when a Thai citizen, usually a woman married a foreigner she would no longer be allowed to own land despite being Thai. Nowadays she retains the same rights to own land as any other Thai citizen, except she might have to prove that any funds used to purchase land are her own.

Previously foreigners could not own any sort of property in Thailand, but now they can own up to 49% of the available space of any condominium project (previously 40%) as defined in the condominium act of the 1980s I believe it first came into law. Although not talked about much but foreigners can also own freestanding houses, just not the land upon which they sit.

Foreign females married to Thai males automatically get Thai citizenship (although this is rarely talked about and therefore not many people know this) while foreign men married to Thai females can now apply for Thai citizenship after just 3 years of residence on non-immigrant extensions of stay earning at least 40000 Baht a month and a few other conditions like a certain minimum knowledge of the Thai language, etc. without having to be on permanent residency visas first! They can even retain their foreign nationality. Although it probably takes quite a few years to be granted citizenship after first applying, in theory, if you can meet the requirements for citizenship based on working here it actually takes less time to become a Thai citizen than to become a citizen of many western countries, though in practice it's not quite that easy.

[Bangel72]

Is there not a little bit or irony in whining about the whiners, but at the same time the author does seem very confident in the detail of the primary symptoms and respect to them if they have been in that situation, turned it around and the intent is to share and help others who may have found themselves in a rut.

[Expat Brad]

"I have to say, been here since 2009, and my glass has never been less than half-full and more often full to the brim. I've met expats real life who definitely did not have expatitis, but I've encountered a lot who definitely do lurking underneath the anonymity of online forums and such. Seems there is always a contingent that does nothing but attack Thailand, denigrate Thai people, and complain when things are not their way. Agree 100% with this article and its recommended cure."Having many Thai friends ,living in a small village, with expats, I hear only complaints of " its hot ! dam hot " Coming here with a plan in mind , setting myself up with my Thai wife and daughters, has been an easier struggle than anywhere else I have been in the world , love Thailand , love its people , with all its faults , i try to make little differences where i can to help eliminate any perceived ideas on expats by Thais, I give an example =

I was invited to a wedding last week , and helped out by washing glasses, picking up used cutlery , clearing tables , helping fold away the tent and tables chairs etc,

the locals where very happy to see a Farang helping out , to see that i was prepared to pitch in like them , Accepted as an equal, GET OUT WHAT YOU PUT IN ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD,"

Totally agree here the two important things are these. One, if back home was better we would be there but it isn't so we are here. Secondly for me personally trying to fit in to this society being friendly & being helpful to others goes a hell of a long way towards finding happiness in yourself.

[DaveinAsia]

I've got quite a simple explanation for this divide into 2 camps; non-whiners and whiners.

If you are a thoughtful, considerate, philosophical, concerned and emotional being you will have a hard time fitting in here.

However, if you are lacking empathy, are indifferent, self-conceited, fun loving and easy going you will fit in great.

Not saying that all Thailand lovers are sociopaths, not at all, but a lot of them are easy going, Leo drinking fun lovers.

Thailand doesn't attract too many expats (excl.expats who work in multinationals, government or NGO's) who think outside of the box because if you do you are stamped a whiner, trouble maker, depressed or bad sport by the fun lovers and that's exactly my point.

One of the reasons many farangs actually move here is to escape from being a responsible person back home, because Thailand is known for it's mai pen rai mentality.

Hence the comments if you don't like it here go back home. There is not much thoughtfulness or care for society by these ostriches. They just want to be left alone in their bubble with their glass half full and care about themselves. They automatically assume that if you complain about something Thai that you don't like it here. They can't think outside of their self-imposed box structure. I mean, who would want to complain when you can be sitting on the beach with a Leo and a nice female massaging your shoulders while you are talking bs with your mates? They can't imagine because their imagination doesn't go further than the basics of life sad to say.

They never get tired of that same old same old, year in, year out. That's something I can't get my head around. Perhaps they are easier satisfied and happy. Ignorance is bliss so they say.

They can't see the difference between caring and whining. Any criticism of society is seen as complaining. It's how they are wired. They just don't care and consider any intellectual thought as threatening to their existence in Utopia.

Bring up any interesting topic and they will try to ridicule you with dumbfounded comments.

Most of them are ego-maniacs who tap themselves on the shoulder all day long and love talking about themselves, how wonderful they are and how they have made it. If you haven't made it just as big as them or bigger you are a loser.

I've met 100's, if not 1000's of these expats over the years, from BKK to Samui to CM and Phuket. This is also how the rest of the world perceives expats living in Thailand. They see us as braindead, uncaring and useless barflies.

My advice to the farangs with half a brain who actually care about the world and other people; don't even try to convince these people and never argue with them! They are conservative in their thinking and doing and they know everything better. They are the same guys who say you should hang the mentally retarded Russian who killed the security guard.

They lack empathy and emotional intelligence and that's why they fit in better.

Anyone with a working brain who has been here for longer than 10 years can see that Thailand is not the country we fell in love with back then. I find it rather disturbing to see how greed, violence and ignorance are filling this once very chilled out nation more and more and by talking about these topics perhaps we can have more insight and then maybe do something about it. Has nothing to do with half full or half empty. Don't let them manipulate you into believing that you are negative, they don't know s-hit. Remember the 80's song by Bruce Hornsby? The way it is........ That's their life philosophy. They have convinced themselves that we can't change anything and things that we can't change should be left alone. Don't count on any of them for bettering the world, they simply don't care, only about themselves.

[Tomtomtom69]

I've got quite a simple explanation for this divide into 2 camps; non-whiners and whiners.

If you are a thoughtful, considerate, philosophical, concerned and emotional being you will have a hard time fitting in here.

However, if you are lacking empathy, are indifferent, self-conceited, fun loving and easy going you will fit in great.

Not saying that all Thailand lovers are sociopaths, not at all, but a lot of them are easy going, Leo drinking fun lovers.

Thailand doesn't attract too many expats (excl.expats who work in multinationals, government or NGO's) who think outside of the box because if you do you are stamped a whiner, trouble maker, depressed or bad sport by the fun lovers and that's exactly my point.

One of the reasons many farangs actually move here is to escape from being a responsible person back home, because Thailand is known for it's mai pen rai mentality.

Hence the comments if you don't like it here go back home. There is not much thoughtfulness or care for society by these ostriches. They just want to be left alone in their bubble with their glass half full and care about themselves. They automatically assume that if you complain about something Thai that you don't like it here. They can't think outside of their self-imposed box structure. I mean, who would want to complain when you can be sitting on the beach with a Leo and a nice female massaging your shoulders while you are talking bs with your mates? They can't imagine because their imagination doesn't go further than the basics of life sad to say.

They never get tired of that same old same old, year in, year out. That's something I can't get my head around. Perhaps they are easier satisfied and happy. Ignorance is bliss so they say.

They can't see the difference between caring and whining. Any criticism of society is seen as complaining. It's how they are wired. They just don't care and consider any intellectual thought as threatening to their existence in Utopia.

Bring up any interesting topic and they will try to ridicule you with dumbfounded comments.

Most of them are ego-maniacs who tap themselves on the shoulder all day long and love talking about themselves, how wonderful they are and how they have made it. If you haven't made it just as big as them or bigger you are a loser.

I've met 100's, if not 1000's of these expats over the years, from BKK to Samui to CM and Phuket. This is also how the rest of the world perceives expats living in Thailand. They see us as braindead, uncaring and useless barflies.

My advice to the farangs with half a brain who actually care about the world and other people; don't even try to convince these people and never argue with them! They are conservative in their thinking and doing and they know everything better. They are the same guys who say you should hang the mentally retarded Russian who killed the security guard.

They lack empathy and emotional intelligence and that's why they fit in better.

Anyone with a working brain who has been here for longer than 10 years can see that Thailand is not the country we fell in love with back then. I find it rather disturbing to see how greed, violence and ignorance are filling this once very chilled out nation more and more and by talking about these topics perhaps we can have more insight and then maybe do something about it. Has nothing to do with half full or half empty. Don't let them manipulate you into believing that you are negative, they don't know s-hit. Remember the 80's song by Bruce Hornsby? The way it is........ That's their life philosophy. They have convinced themselves that we can't change anything and things that we can't change should be left alone. Don't count on any of them for bettering the world, they simply don't care, only about themselves.

I only have one thing to say: well said.

[KarenBravo]

I also have Thai friends, some for many years, but, I'm realistic enough to realise that I should never rely on them if trouble came my way..........

[jdinasia]

I also have Thai friends, some for many years, but, I'm realistic enough to realise that I should never rely on them if trouble came my way..........

That sucks. I have Thai friends that have pulled my biscuits from the fire more than once.

[Jonmarleesco]

'Most of the problems people have experienced in Thailand came from expats – not Thais.' They did?

[Thai at Heart]

For me, I only started to get down on the place when it was abundantly apparent how truly awful the schools were. Once it was apparent that it was no place to educate my kids, my whole perspective changed.

[Papayabokbok]

It's easy to form negative impressions of Thais in general. The easiest thing to dislike about them is that they don't live in an authentic experience with others. They are generally deceitful in all aspects of their relationships. To the outsider, this is not understandable. The foreigner or expat also has a negative view of Thais for their lack of responsibility and commitment. They reneg on business deals and personal promises. They manipulate the facts to suit their self absorbed interests. Thais don't read, they are not interested in classical art, music or world history.

Thais generally have little or no awareness of western culture. They live in a total state of denial about their society and its reality. They have little or no intellectual curiosity or passion about much. They have little work ethic and their sense of value is most limited to material things and money. Just look at the way Thais splay out money at any event. Random acts of truthfulness and honesty are big news in the Thai press. Thais love secrecy, exclusion, and opaqueness in society, business, and life in general. Thais rarely if ever take responsibility and never say I'm sorry, I made a mistake. When expats get together, it's easy to complain about Thais because something has always just happened that has them shaking their heads about Thais. Expats who don't complain about Thais are living in the same false reality and unauthentic life experience. Expats who never complain about Thais or Thailand are being deceitful to themselves or they've become Thai thinking in a land where Thais will never accept them for who they really are.

Well Said!--Im very curious about learning more and would like to subscribe to your newsletter!

Spot On as they say......I agree with your post wholeheartedly--

[Papayabokbok]

Thailand sucks. The USA sucks. Thailand sucks less so that's why I'm here.

555 Agreed!

I bounce back n forth between the two until i cant take it anymore...

All about balance and harmony--pros n cons all over i guess...

[Plutojames88]

I will begin by saying some observations here , have been enjoyable to read and thought provoking. The article itself achieved its goal by this response to it alone.

Some people thoughtfully considered the stereotypical image of the pictured man. Evoking concern at a spiral that perhaps can lead to an outcome .

Others observed "the man who needs to solve inner conflicts "

And expressed rationale along those lines .

That alcoholism , sadness and isolation were a condition far deeper than surface plights of day to day living.

Others hinted at attitude adjustment required from the individual .

And supported the premise to conclusion that its a perceptive matter.

I seem to see" curious conflicts " within a narrow definition of what constructive criticism and non constructive criticism may even look like.

To expand this in a climate politically where criticism is not really a free choice to make , it then becomes complexing to set it into a defined narrow prospective.

The expat.

Should the Expat have or be free to have opinions and complaint?

Without being questioned about his or hers attitude or need for ""adjustment?"

It then hints at a futuristic possibility that ""political" adjustments may extend to westerners who are residing in Thailand.

That penalties could well become law.

Education and or tests required to stay further.

The very innocent simple article is hinting far more deeply perhaps at xenophobic traits?

And this is just the beginning?

Should westerners living there have opinions on matters Thai?

Can we define those opinions in a manner of who is who?

Quality Expats ?

It might follow if complaint by Thais are made officially , ( in this futuristic setting) a test might be required ?

An adjustment to ""better understanding""

Polls that support this .

Expats who fail might have property seized and sold as compensation to the ""Thai people""

All sounds silly and paranoid right now.

And the article asking about your perception harmless enough?

After all the gent in the picture might have long standing issues or indeed be just having a bad day?

He may well be a happy guy , or not even an Expat.

But the face of accusation is cast.

The article suggests or hints at many things .

The alcohol consumption , and attitude being linked to observation.

Quality is being defined subtly and defence of ones own postion.

Even on this forum it has been suggested those against marshal law are just ""discontented fools without proper understanding""

I have sold up ..so maybe my understanding is based on ""other considerations"" like free speech and direction?

But I wonder where we are heading .?

How many Thais post here who are Government employees and take on western ID handles .

Certainly by what's written one must ask or wonder?

Is it not strange how some seem so similar in referencing reminders that we are ""just guests" ..""have no influence "" and ""don't understand"" ....when dealing with some subjects like elitism in Politics unfair prosecution of opponents and importance of Elections and free media and opinion?

Now we are being placed under the micro scope .

Is it us ?

Are we this person?

Do we represent poor quality Expats ?

A poll will inform us that 97.5% want unhappy Expats gone perhaps ?

Who knows what's next?

In this double speak climate , where even "thought crime is manifesting" and big brother love desired to be "compatible for future residence here.." ....could the vocal Expat days be numbered ?

That aspect of the article scares me most.

Justification ignored.

Is being critical of a Jet ski Pattaya operator in the future paramount to anti - Thai positioning that will earn you a ticket back to "adjustment class"" or deportation .....

Stay tuned and enjoy the next instalment of "" Love me or else"

83% in a poll do ...so why not you ?

The Expat is being told to basically shut up!

[micmichd]

I've heard this before - in Germany.

[Luxfare]

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I've got quite a simple explanation for this divide into 2 camps; non-whiners and whiners.

If you are a thoughtful, considerate, philosophical, concerned and emotional being you will have a hard time fitting in here.

However, if you are lacking empathy, are indifferent, self-conceited, fun loving and easy going you will fit in great.

Not saying that all Thailand lovers are sociopaths, not at all, but a lot of them are easy going, Leo drinking fun lovers.

Thailand doesn't attract too many expats (excl.expats who work in multinationals, government or NGO's) who think outside of the box because if you do you are stamped a whiner, trouble maker, depressed or bad sport by the fun lovers and that's exactly my point.

One of the reasons many farangs actually move here is to escape from being a responsible person back home, because Thailand is known for it's mai pen rai mentality.

Hence the comments if you don't like it here go back home. There is not much thoughtfulness or care for society by these ostriches. They just want to be left alone in their bubble with their glass half full and care about themselves. They automatically assume that if you complain about something Thai that you don't like it here. They can't think outside of their self-imposed box structure. I mean, who would want to complain when you can be sitting on the beach with a Leo and a nice female massaging your shoulders while you are talking bs with your mates? They can't imagine because their imagination doesn't go further than the basics of life sad to say.

They never get tired of that same old same old, year in, year out. That's something I can't get my head around. Perhaps they are easier satisfied and happy. Ignorance is bliss so they say.

They can't see the difference between caring and whining. Any criticism of society is seen as complaining. It's how they are wired. They just don't care and consider any intellectual thought as threatening to their existence in Utopia.

Bring up any interesting topic and they will try to ridicule you with dumbfounded comments.

Most of them are ego-maniacs who tap themselves on the shoulder all day long and love talking about themselves, how wonderful they are and how they have made it. If you haven't made it just as big as them or bigger you are a loser.

I've met 100's, if not 1000's of these expats over the years, from BKK to Samui to CM and Phuket. This is also how the rest of the world perceives expats living in Thailand. They see us as braindead, uncaring and useless barflies.

My advice to the farangs with half a brain who actually care about the world and other people; don't even try to convince these people and never argue with them! They are conservative in their thinking and doing and they know everything better. They are the same guys who say you should hang the mentally retarded Russian who killed the security guard.

They lack empathy and emotional intelligence and that's why they fit in better.

Anyone with a working brain who has been here for longer than 10 years can see that Thailand is not the country we fell in love with back then. I find it rather disturbing to see how greed, violence and ignorance are filling this once very chilled out nation more and more and by talking about these topics perhaps we can have more insight and then maybe do something about it. Has nothing to do with half full or half empty. Don't let them manipulate you into believing that you are negative, they don't know s-hit. Remember the 80's song by Bruce Hornsby? The way it is........ That's their life philosophy. They have convinced themselves that we can't change anything and things that we can't change should be left alone. Don't count on any of them for bettering the world, they simply don't care, only about themselves.

What a condesending, arrogant, xenophobic post. So Sigmund I guess every expat and immigrant in Thailand is in one of two categories....well let's have a look

Thoughtful and considerate- I used to be a police officer in my own community, I worked with the NAAFI in Afghanistan for 2 years serving the troops on an abysmal salary, I regularly carry out charity events and at work will take time to help where I can.

Philiosophical- no expert but I'd certainly consider myself middle-left in political issues and try to always step back and review before taking action (I read your nonsense post 5 times before I started to write this reply)

Concerned and emotional- too many incidents but one recent was taking a new born street cat with a dislocated shoulder (while I was on a night out with friends) to a 24 hr VET, paying 25,000thb to fix it up and have now taken it in...so I'd say that was pretty thoughful especially considering I'm allergic to their dander.

Now for camp 2

Lack empathy- see cat story above and I still cry like a little girl at the end of "The champ" when Jon Voight dies...hence the reason I never watch it with company.

Self conceited- you'll probably say this message is a little conceited, but I'm the first to point out my mistakes and take advice, while admittedly often the first to point out others mistakes and give advice.

Fun Loving- yeah, I'm laid back and look forward to the Friday night out with the boys as much as I did 10 years ago in the UK.

So which one am I DAVE?? I do at one time or another tick all your little self contained boxes.

I have my standpoint on this, I am one of the many who say "don't like it, then go back home" and the reason for me saying that is simple. Why come out here and stay if it's not to your liking? why would you leave your nation of birth to come to a nation in which all you see is "thainess", "corruption" or "backwards"?? The days of colonization and the crusades are over.....you either accept each nation and it's values for what they are or you don't, I mean it's not like we're living in Syria is it?- if you want to change a society so much then stay in your own "clearly not perfect" nation of birth and try to make that better. BUT NO, instead the whingers come to Thailand for the positives it offers all the while expecting Thialand to pander to what they liked from the nation they just CHOSE TO LEAVE.....it's the very definition of hypocrisy and arrogant beyond comprehension.

I was a cynic, miserable individual in the UK (My nation of birth), I hated my job, I hated the weather, I hated the fact two thirds of my salary went on tax/rent/bills, I hated the fact I was expected to work 46-50hrs a week despite being on a 39 hr contract just because I was a manager......so I did something about it....I left.

Thailand is far from perfect but we all CHOOSE to live here, why don't we all go back to our nations of birth and demand that those in power try the Bush and Blair administrations for an illegal invasion and genocide? why don't we all go back and demand bankers are held accountable when they lose money, why don't we all go back and demand that our home borders are better manned and that illegals are turned away like we would be here in Thailand, why don't we all go back and demand that politicians keep the promises that they made when campaigning, why don't we all go back and make our nations of birth the perfect level we expect in Thailand? You tell me DAVE, after all you have all the black and white views.

[bim]

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I've got quite a simple explanation for this divide into 2 camps; non-whiners and whiners.

If you are a thoughtful, considerate, philosophical, concerned and emotional being you will have a hard time fitting in here.

However, if you are lacking empathy, are indifferent, self-conceited, fun loving and easy going you will fit in great.

Not saying that all Thailand lovers are sociopaths, not at all, but a lot of them are easy going, Leo drinking fun lovers.

Thailand doesn't attract too many expats (excl.expats who work in multinationals, government or NGO's) who think outside of the box because if you do you are stamped a whiner, trouble maker, depressed or bad sport by the fun lovers and that's exactly my point.

One of the reasons many farangs actually move here is to escape from being a responsible person back home, because Thailand is known for it's mai pen rai mentality.

Hence the comments if you don't like it here go back home. There is not much thoughtfulness or care for society by these ostriches. They just want to be left alone in their bubble with their glass half full and care about themselves. They automatically assume that if you complain about something Thai that you don't like it here. They can't think outside of their self-imposed box structure. I mean, who would want to complain when you can be sitting on the beach with a Leo and a nice female massaging your shoulders while you are talking bs with your mates? They can't imagine because their imagination doesn't go further than the basics of life sad to say.

They never get tired of that same old same old, year in, year out. That's something I can't get my head around. Perhaps they are easier satisfied and happy. Ignorance is bliss so they say.

They can't see the difference between caring and whining. Any criticism of society is seen as complaining. It's how they are wired. They just don't care and consider any intellectual thought as threatening to their existence in Utopia.

Bring up any interesting topic and they will try to ridicule you with dumbfounded comments.

Most of them are ego-maniacs who tap themselves on the shoulder all day long and love talking about themselves, how wonderful they are and how they have made it. If you haven't made it just as big as them or bigger you are a loser.

I've met 100's, if not 1000's of these expats over the years, from BKK to Samui to CM and Phuket. This is also how the rest of the world perceives expats living in Thailand. They see us as braindead, uncaring and useless barflies.

My advice to the farangs with half a brain who actually care about the world and other people; don't even try to convince these people and never argue with them! They are conservative in their thinking and doing and they know everything better. They are the same guys who say you should hang the mentally retarded Russian who killed the security guard.

They lack empathy and emotional intelligence and that's why they fit in better.

Anyone with a working brain who has been here for longer than 10 years can see that Thailand is not the country we fell in love with back then. I find it rather disturbing to see how greed, violence and ignorance are filling this once very chilled out nation more and more and by talking about these topics perhaps we can have more insight and then maybe do something about it. Has nothing to do with half full or half empty. Don't let them manipulate you into believing that you are negative, they don't know s-hit. Remember the 80's song by Bruce Hornsby? The way it is........ That's their life philosophy. They have convinced themselves that we can't change anything and things that we can't change should be left alone. Don't count on any of them for bettering the world, they simply don't care, only about themselves.

What a condesending, arrogant, xenophobic post. So Sigmund I guess every expat and immigrant in Thailand is in one of two categories....well let's have a look

Thoughtful and considerate- I used to be a police officer in my own community, I worked with the NAAFI in Afghanistan for 2 years serving the troops on an abysmal salary, I regularly carry out charity events and at work will take time to help where I can.

Philiosophical- no expert but I'd certainly consider myself middle-left in political issues and try to always step back and review before taking action (I read your nonsense post 5 times before I started to write this reply)

Concerned and emotional- too many incidents but one recent was taking a new born street cat with a dislocated shoulder (while I was on a night out with friends) to a 24 hr VET, paying 25,000thb to fix it up and have now taken it in...so I'd say that was pretty thoughful especially considering I'm allergic to their dander.

Now for camp 2

Lack empathy- see cat story above and I still cry like a little girl at the end of "The champ" when Jon Voight dies...hence the reason I never watch it with company.

Self conceited- you'll probably say this message is a little conceited, but I'm the first to point out my mistakes and take advice, while admittedly often the first to point out others mistakes and give advice.

Fun Loving- yeah, I'm laid back and look forward to the Friday night out with the boys as much as I did 10 years ago in the UK.

So which one am I DAVE?? I do at one time or another tick all your little self contained boxes.

I have my standpoint on this, I am one of the many who say "don't like it, then go back home" and the reason for me saying that is simple. Why come out here and stay if it's not to your liking? why would you leave your nation of birth to come to a nation in which all you see is "thainess", "corruption" or "backwards"?? The days of colonization and the crusades are over.....you either accept each nation and it's values for what they are or you don't, I mean it's not like we're living in Syria is it?- if you want to change a society so much then stay in your own "clearly not perfect" nation of birth and try to make that better. BUT NO, instead the whingers come to Thailand for the positives it offers all the while expecting Thialand to pander to what they liked from the nation they just CHOSE TO LEAVE.....it's the very definition of hypocrisy and arrogant beyond comprehension.

I was a cynic, miserable individual in the UK (My nation of birth), I hated my job, I hated the weather, I hated the fact two thirds of my salary went on tax/rent/bills, I hated the fact I was expected to work 46-50hrs a week despite being on a 39 hr contract just because I was a manager......so I did something about it....I left.

Thailand is far from perfect but we all CHOOSE to live here, why don't we all go back to our nations of birth and demand that those in power try the Bush and Blair administrations for an illegal invasion and genocide? why don't we all go back and demand bankers are held accountable when they lose money, why don't we all go back and demand that our home borders are better manned and that illegals are turned away like we would be here in Thailand, why don't we all go back and demand that politicians keep the promises that they made when campaigning, why don't we all go back and make our nations of birth the perfect level we expect in Thailand? You tell me DAVE, after all you have all the black and white views.

The perfect response to these moaning people I thought Id left behind in the UK. I agree with you 100%. Why travel half way across the world if your just going to negativley spew bile on everything Thai. Do things frustrate me here. Sometimes yes but when these expats come on here and state all Thais are the same is without doubt racsist. 80% of Thais I know are lovely caring people. 80% of expats I meet especailly from the UK are moaners who I give a wide berth. My life and standard of living here in Thailand is hugely better than anything I had of 40 years in the UK. And for that I am grateful to have discovered this wonderful country. Warts and all. Before I get accused by these small minded people of having my head buried in the sand. Far from it. I love life here. End of.

[micmichd]

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I've got quite a simple explanation for this divide into 2 camps; non-whiners and whiners.

If you are a thoughtful, considerate, philosophical, concerned and emotional being you will have a hard time fitting in here.

However, if you are lacking empathy, are indifferent, self-conceited, fun loving and easy going you will fit in great.

Not saying that all Thailand lovers are sociopaths, not at all, but a lot of them are easy going, Leo drinking fun lovers.

Thailand doesn't attract too many expats (excl.expats who work in multinationals, government or NGO's) who think outside of the box because if you do you are stamped a whiner, trouble maker, depressed or bad sport by the fun lovers and that's exactly my point.

One of the reasons many farangs actually move here is to escape from being a responsible person back home, because Thailand is known for it's mai pen rai mentality.

Hence the comments if you don't like it here go back home. There is not much thoughtfulness or care for society by these ostriches. They just want to be left alone in their bubble with their glass half full and care about themselves. They automatically assume that if you complain about something Thai that you don't like it here. They can't think outside of their self-imposed box structure. I mean, who would want to complain when you can be sitting on the beach with a Leo and a nice female massaging your shoulders while you are talking bs with your mates? They can't imagine because their imagination doesn't go further than the basics of life sad to say.

They never get tired of that same old same old, year in, year out. That's something I can't get my head around. Perhaps they are easier satisfied and happy. Ignorance is bliss so they say.

They can't see the difference between caring and whining. Any criticism of society is seen as complaining. It's how they are wired. They just don't care and consider any intellectual thought as threatening to their existence in Utopia.

Bring up any interesting topic and they will try to ridicule you with dumbfounded comments.

Most of them are ego-maniacs who tap themselves on the shoulder all day long and love talking about themselves, how wonderful they are and how they have made it. If you haven't made it just as big as them or bigger you are a loser.

I've met 100's, if not 1000's of these expats over the years, from BKK to Samui to CM and Phuket. This is also how the rest of the world perceives expats living in Thailand. They see us as braindead, uncaring and useless barflies.

My advice to the farangs with half a brain who actually care about the world and other people; don't even try to convince these people and never argue with them! They are conservative in their thinking and doing and they know everything better. They are the same guys who say you should hang the mentally retarded Russian who killed the security guard.

They lack empathy and emotional intelligence and that's why they fit in better.

Anyone with a working brain who has been here for longer than 10 years can see that Thailand is not the country we fell in love with back then. I find it rather disturbing to see how greed, violence and ignorance are filling this once very chilled out nation more and more and by talking about these topics perhaps we can have more insight and then maybe do something about it. Has nothing to do with half full or half empty. Don't let them manipulate you into believing that you are negative, they don't know s-hit. Remember the 80's song by Bruce Hornsby? The way it is........ That's their life philosophy. They have convinced themselves that we can't change anything and things that we can't change should be left alone. Don't count on any of them for bettering the world, they simply don't care, only about themselves.

What a condesending, arrogant, xenophobic post. So Sigmund I guess every expat and immigrant in Thailand is in one of two categories....well let's have a look

Thoughtful and considerate- I used to be a police officer in my own community, I worked with the NAAFI in Afghanistan for 2 years serving the troops on an abysmal salary, I regularly carry out charity events and at work will take time to help where I can.

Philiosophical- no expert but I'd certainly consider myself middle-left in political issues and try to always step back and review before taking action (I read your nonsense post 5 times before I started to write this reply)

Concerned and emotional- too many incidents but one recent was taking a new born street cat with a dislocated shoulder (while I was on a night out with friends) to a 24 hr VET, paying 25,000thb to fix it up and have now taken it in...so I'd say that was pretty thoughful especially considering I'm allergic to their dander.

Now for camp 2

Lack empathy- see cat story above and I still cry like a little girl at the end of "The champ" when Jon Voight dies...hence the reason I never watch it with company.

Self conceited- you'll probably say this message is a little conceited, but I'm the first to point out my mistakes and take advice, while admittedly often the first to point out others mistakes and give advice.

Fun Loving- yeah, I'm laid back and look forward to the Friday night out with the boys as much as I did 10 years ago in the UK.

So which one am I DAVE?? I do at one time or another tick all your little self contained boxes.

I have my standpoint on this, I am one of the many who say "don't like it, then go back home" and the reason for me saying that is simple. Why come out here and stay if it's not to your liking? why would you leave your nation of birth to come to a nation in which all you see is "thainess", "corruption" or "backwards"?? The days of colonization and the crusades are over.....you either accept each nation and it's values for what they are or you don't, I mean it's not like we're living in Syria is it?- if you want to change a society so much then stay in your own "clearly not perfect" nation of birth and try to make that better. BUT NO, instead the whingers come to Thailand for the positives it offers all the while expecting Thialand to pander to what they liked from the nation they just CHOSE TO LEAVE.....it's the very definition of hypocrisy and arrogant beyond comprehension.

I was a cynic, miserable individual in the UK (My nation of birth), I hated my job, I hated the weather, I hated the fact two thirds of my salary went on tax/rent/bills, I hated the fact I was expected to work 46-50hrs a week despite being on a 39 hr contract just because I was a manager......so I did something about it....I left.

Thailand is far from perfect but we all CHOOSE to live here, why don't we all go back to our nations of birth and demand that those in power try the Bush and Blair administrations for an illegal invasion and genocide? why don't we all go back and demand bankers are held accountable when they lose money, why don't we all go back and demand that our home borders are better manned and that illegals are turned away like we would be here in Thailand, why don't we all go back and demand that politicians keep the promises that they made when campaigning, why don't we all go back and make our nations of birth the perfect level we expect in Thailand? You tell me DAVE, after all you have all the black and white views.

The perfect response to these moaning people I thought Id left behind in the UK. I agree with you 100%. Why travel half way across the world if your just going to negativley spew bile on everything Thai. Do things frustrate me here. Sometimes yes but when these expats come on here and state all Thais are the same is without doubt racsist. 80% of Thais I know are lovely caring people. 80% of expats I meet especailly from the UK are moaners who I give a wide berth. My life and standard of living here in Thailand is hugely better than anything I had of 40 years in the UK. And for that I am grateful to have discovered this wonderful country. Warts and all. Before I get accused by these small minded people of having my head buried in the sand. Far from it. I love life here. End of.

[micmichd]

I'm from Heidelberg, West Germany. I love the buildings and the mountains, but the natives are disgusting. They consider me to be a monument, nice to look at, nice for squeezing out money. I worked in International Banking IT, and I was forced to be a workaholic.

When I told them I would leave and go to Thailand to live with a woman there, they all wanted "my best": My money, my property, my soul. They are still after it, and they get more and more disgusting. Now they are afraid I could come back for revenge and kill them. Some already went to police, just in case.

That's probably how "terrorists" are made.

What a difference in Thailand. Here it's life that counts.

Many Farangs say Thais are materialistic. Are they?

Guess Thais consider money as a necessary evil, a medium for exchange. Not more.

Whereas in Germany they made money their god, a worshipped value in itself.

I don't care about Germany anymore. My lawyers care about my property I left over there, and even if these robbers would get away, I would still not come back. I can't stand their smell anymore, their dog-like behaviour in a desperate rat race.

Thailand might not be perfect all the time, but Thailand is developing.

I also went through changes, so guess Thailand's the right place for me.

Kob cun kap.

[micmichd]

I'm from Heidelberg, West Germany. I love the buildings and the mountains, but the natives are disgusting. They consider me to be a monument, nice to look at, nice for squeezing out money. I worked in International Banking IT, and I was forced to be a workaholic.

When I told them I would leave and go to Thailand to live with a woman there, they all wanted "my best": My money, my property, my soul. They are still after it, and they get more and more disgusting. Now they are afraid I could come back for revenge and kill them. Some already went to police, just in case.

That's probably how "terrorists" are made.

What a difference in Thailand. Here it's life that counts.

Many Farangs say Thais are materialistic. Are they?

Guess Thais consider money as a necessary evil, a medium for exchange. Not more.

Whereas in Germany they made money their god, a worshipped value in itself.

I don't care about Germany anymore. My lawyers care about my property I left over there, and even if these robbers would get away, I would still not come back. I can't stand their smell anymore, their dog-like behaviour in a desperate rat race.

Thailand might not be perfect all the time, but Thailand is developing.

I also went through changes, so guess Thailand's the right place for me.

Kob cun kap.

[mikeinbangkok]

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I also have Thai friends, some for many years, but, I'm realistic enough to realise that I should never rely on them if trouble came my way..........

That sucks. I have Thai friends that have pulled my biscuits from the fire more than once.

I am alive today, after having a massive cardiac arrest because of my Thai colleagues who rushed me in time to the hospital and the Thai doctors and their staff who saved me and took care of me. I was in the U.S and had to go to the hospital for an emergency. Waited for over an hour to get my Insurance sorted out before a Doctor saw me. Nuff said!

[micmichd]

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I also have Thai friends, some for many years, but, I'm realistic enough to realise that I should never rely on them if trouble came my way..........

That sucks. I have Thai friends that have pulled my biscuits from the fire more than once.

I am alive today, after having a massive cardiac arrest because of my Thai colleagues who rushed me in time to the hospital and the Thai doctors and their staff who saved me and took care of me. I was in the U.S and had to go to the hospital for an emergency. Waited for over an hour to get my Insurance sorted out before a Doctor saw me. Nuff said!

[micmichd]

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I also have Thai friends, some for many years, but, I'm realistic enough to realise that I should never rely on them if trouble came my way..........

That sucks. I have Thai friends that have pulled my biscuits from the fire more than once.

I am alive today, after having a massive cardiac arrest because of my Thai colleagues who rushed me in time to the hospital and the Thai doctors and their staff who saved me and took care of me. I was in the U.S and had to go to the hospital for an emergency. Waited for over an hour to get my Insurance sorted out before a Doctor saw me. Nuff said!

[micmichd]

Still, there's one question that comes to my mind when I think about a typical Pattaya scene:

How many male Farangs really made friends with male Thais?

[Smurkster]

When it's all said and done Thailand just isn't really that much of a cool and exotic place to live for me anymore, I guess unfortunately I am half empty...March 21st 2015 will be my last day here, I enjoyed many parts of it but honestly if I never return in my lifetime it still won't be a long enough time to be away..

yes I know there is going to be the "don't let the door"....blah blah but just being honest and giving an honest answer to a question posed.

[luckyman]

It's easy to form negative impressions of Thais in general. The easiest thing to dislike about them is that they don't live in an authentic experience with others. They are generally deceitful in all aspects of their relationships. To the outsider, this is not understandable. The foreigner or expat also has a negative view of Thais for their lack of responsibility and commitment. They reneg on business deals and personal promises. They manipulate the facts to suit their self absorbed interests. Thais don't read, they are not interested in classical art, music or world history.

Thais generally have little or no awareness of western culture. They live in a total state of denial about their society and its reality. They have little or no intellectual curiosity or passion about much. They have little work ethic and their sense of value is most limited to material things and money. Just look at the way Thais splay out money at any event. Random acts of truthfulness and honesty are big news in the Thai press. Thais love secrecy, exclusion, and opaqueness in society, business, and life in general. Thais rarely if ever take responsibility and never say I'm sorry, I made a mistake. When expats get together, it's easy to complain about Thais because something has always just happened that has them shaking their heads about Thais. Expats who don't complain about Thais are living in the same false reality and unauthentic life experience. Expats who never complain about Thais or Thailand are being deceitful to themselves or they've become Thai thinking in a land where Thais will never accept them for who they really are.

Wow, my respect and compliments to Noitom because this comment must be the best post in this whole thread and on this subject in general.

[luckyman]

For me, I only started to get down on the place when it was abundantly apparent how truly awful the schools were. Once it was apparent that it was no place to educate my kids, my whole perspective changed.

+1

[Smurkster]

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It's easy to form negative impressions of Thais in general. The easiest thing to dislike about them is that they don't live in an authentic experience with others. They are generally deceitful in all aspects of their relationships. To the outsider, this is not understandable. The foreigner or expat also has a negative view of Thais for their lack of responsibility and commitment. They reneg on business deals and personal promises. They manipulate the facts to suit their self absorbed interests. Thais don't read, they are not interested in classical art, music or world history.

Thais generally have little or no awareness of western culture. They live in a total state of denial about their society and its reality. They have little or no intellectual curiosity or passion about much. They have little work ethic and their sense of value is most limited to material things and money. Just look at the way Thais splay out money at any event. Random acts of truthfulness and honesty are big news in the Thai press. Thais love secrecy, exclusion, and opaqueness in society, business, and life in general. Thais rarely if ever take responsibility and never say I'm sorry, I made a mistake. When expats get together, it's easy to complain about Thais because something has always just happened that has them shaking their heads about Thais. Expats who don't complain about Thais are living in the same false reality and unauthentic life experience. Expats who never complain about Thais or Thailand are being deceitful to themselves or they've become Thai thinking in a land where Thais will never accept them for who they really are.

Wow, my respect and compliments to Noitom because this comment must be the best post in this whole thread and on this subject in general.

I think this post unfortunately is 100% especially the part about lack of intellectual curiosity or the inability to be accountable for their actions