Expatitis in Thailand, Is Your Glass Half Empty or Half Full?

[micmichd]

I'm afraid you're right.

When something went wrong in Thailand, many frustrated expats go home and put the blame on the country where they actually would have liked to stay.

[micmichd]

If you can fake sincerity, you've got it made. That's an old on. Was surprised to not find it in the OP. It was nearly there. "Fake it til you make it."

[PeCeDe]

Just got back from a good feed of Rat Na for 30b, in 15 minutes a cake will come out of the rice cooker.

Tomorrow we go to a national park for 4 days, then a week after we get back, to Kanchanaburi and Sangklaburi with friends from NZ, with a couple of days at another national park on the way home.

Then a week after that we fly down to Ranong and on a boat out to Koh Chang for 4 days by the sea.

2 weeks after that another 4 days in a different national park.

And can manage all that on a pension.

My cup runneth over as the saying goes.

Another one for you grouches, Smile and Thailand smiles with you.

Oh Man, don't forget the 72 virgins when you croak, It's so nice to hear of good things happening to obviously good people.

Don't expect or need the virgins, one ex virgin is enough for me, oh yea, and a camera and a fishing pole.

He he, I had a friend from the University of Alabama.. who would say that, "don't need nothin' but my dawg and a fishin' pole"

[55Jay]

The author is named "Editor".

Most cynical expats of a certain age in Chiang Mai, and a few bar owners, know him, and his twin sister, all too well.

Editor is an unemployed, work permit free, 20 something digital nomad cum blogger cum web content developer on a part-time spiritual journey to, quote, "find myself". You've likely seen around CM taking photos of soi dogs, eating sweet sticky rice & mango and wai'ing small children on the street.

Editor sat on his duff at ______ beer bar and 6 hours later, submitted this desperate, tired old chestnut to his exploitative, but equally desperate, editor at Chiang Mai rag online.

After 6 hours of free WIFI, Editor "check bin'ed" a total of 1 small Leo and 6 free buckets of ice, asked the miserable old expats for advice how to do his first tourist visa border run, then left the bar without even leaving a measly 20 Baht tip for Nok.

Quality tourists who've done more for Thailand in two weeks than all the miserable old gits who live here ever have.

I'm a 30 something, have a work permit, very likely to pay more tax than the cynics and agree with most of what the OP has written.

Noted. Thanks for sharing your details. It would be hard not to agree with OP, but that's not the point.

I see you liked my post then unliked it. Did you empathize more with Editor? He negatively impacted at least 2 people that day, which is far more harm than the gaggle of moaning old gits did to anyone. He finished slagging them off, then has the cheek to ask them for help/advice - which they readily gave.

What's up with the not so subtle air of superiority about paying taxes?

[Trouble]

I think whether the glass is half full or half empty might just depend on the circumstances that brought one to Thailand in the first place. I have travelled to Thailand for over 40 years and always enjoyed my time there. At one time I thought how great it would be to live there but as I aged and eventually retired I realized it was not the place for me. This was an individual choice based on my desires and needs. I am not sure the glass would be any more full or empty living one place or another. When I visit my expat friends in Thailand I realized that most of them are retired, live on fixed incomes and while they enjoy much of what Thailand does have to offer, most of them can never consider themselves Immigrants as someone pointed out in defining immigrants vs expats. Most of my friends enjoy a level of living that allows them a reasonable social life among their various social circles but it is for the most part among farang expats and not among the greater Thai population. I found during my visits that the heat and humidity at certain times of the year very limiting in allowing outdoor activity. The traffic and masses of humanity in Bangkok also wear me out. I chose in the end to remain in Los Angeles (also not short on traffic) where I felt I enjoyed a better lifestyle than I could enjoy in Thailand. I think there in lies the important part of what I am trying to state. I had a choice where as some do not. They go for cheap living, jobs, sex, or whatever and those things do not always work out as happily and they thought. So I do believe that individual circumstances create the glass half full/empty not necessarily the place one lives. I know expats that thoroughly enjoy living in Thailand and those that do it because they are on fixed incomes and live slightly better than if they lived in their home countries. But invariably they are always talking about the cost of things going up and where they can get the best lunch for the least cost. For most they still enjoy living in Thailand so the glass must be half full. It probably would not be for me. But I do enjoy my ability to leave home and travel for short durations and just hang out with friends in Thailand.

[Tocquinio]

Fantastic piece. Well observed

[macster]

"My glass is always full and when it gets near half way the excellent staff fill it again and again.....til i tell them to stop you're gonna get me drunk".

And yes I get frustrated just like everyone does...even whine a little. Then I think of those poor B$#%rds at home freezing their azzes off and shoveling snow til theres no place to put it all theres been so much.

and I quickly come to my senses....the grass is greener here.

my best to everyone here newcomers and oldtimers

mac

[northernjohn]

I came here thinking it was a country full of dangerous roads, scammers and hookers. I wasn't expecting the military Junta. But apart from that, no surprises. I tell a lie, only one surprise, the litter and debris scattered everywhere, beauty spots, temples, roads, beaches, sea ...... it's everywhere.

Just goes to show the Junta is only an issue in some peoples mind.

You should have been here before they came in.

Welcome to Thailand. Let us hope they don't take the 40 years that I know of to clean up the liter in the States. It was a standard joke when they first went to the moon. You could tell it was Americans by the litter.

[williet98248]

Been here twelve years. After an initial cultural adjustment my glass is definitely on the full side. I have many interests, a great gal, a few good friends. Don't hang in the bars with the whiners, braggers, and alcoholics. Drinking and complaining not for me.

[lapd]

This article has summed up 90% of the sad acts on this forum.

Yup, pretty much. That is probably why it was written.

[Luxfare]

The author is named "Editor".

Most cynical expats of a certain age in Chiang Mai, and a few bar owners, know him, and his twin sister, all too well.

Editor is an unemployed, work permit free, 20 something digital nomad cum blogger cum web content developer on a part-time spiritual journey to, quote, "find myself". You've likely seen around CM taking photos of soi dogs, eating sweet sticky rice & mango and wai'ing small children on the street.

Editor sat on his duff at ______ beer bar and 6 hours later, submitted this desperate, tired old chestnut to his exploitative, but equally desperate, editor at Chiang Mai rag online.

After 6 hours of free WIFI, Editor "check bin'ed" a total of 1 small Leo and 6 free buckets of ice, asked the miserable old expats for advice how to do his first tourist visa border run, then left the bar without even leaving a measly 20 Baht tip for Nok.

Quality tourists who've done more for Thailand in two weeks than all the miserable old gits who live here ever have.

I'm a 30 something, have a work permit, very likely to pay more tax than the cynics and agree with most of what the OP has written.

Noted. Thanks for sharing your details. It would be hard not to agree with OP, but that's not the point.

I see you liked my post then unliked it. Did you empathize more with Editor? He negatively impacted at least 2 people that day, which is far more harm than the gaggle of moaning old gits did to anyone. He finished slagging them off, then has the cheek to ask them for help/advice - which they readily gave.

What's up with the not so subtle air of superiority about paying taxes?

I liked a certain bit of your post and agreed with it however there was a certain amount of generalizing about it......the point I made about paying taxes was not intended to sound superior but just to let you know that I pay towards this nation and that I'm not some work permit free paycheck to paycheck dictator with no understanding of Thai culture.

People do have a right to complain IF treat unfairly, the problem I have is those who come here for a superior life to that they can afford in their " home" nation only to then critizise everything that isn't up to standard of their " home nation", and those who just hate everything.....an example of those types would be the negative comments made about the soi dog that moved to Scotland and built a bond with a 6 year old cerebral palsy sufferer....I mean come on ,HOW can you be negative about that unless you have something really dark inside.

Apologise about the grammar I'm on my phone and have big thumbs.

[PeCeDe]

Just got back from a good feed of Rat Na for 30b, in 15 minutes a cake will come out of the rice cooker.

Tomorrow we go to a national park for 4 days, then a week after we get back, to Kanchanaburi and Sangklaburi with friends from NZ, with a couple of days at another national park on the way home.

Then a week after that we fly down to Ranong and on a boat out to Koh Chang for 4 days by the sea.

2 weeks after that another 4 days in a different national park.

And can manage all that on a pension.

My cup runneth over as the saying goes.

Another one for you grouches, Smile and Thailand smiles with you.

Oh Man, don't forget the 72 virgins when you croak, It's so nice to hear of good things happening to obviously good people.

Don't expect or need the virgins, one ex virgin is enough for me, oh yea, and a camera and a fishing pole.

He he, I had a friend from the University of Alabama.. who would say that, "don't need nothin' but my dawg and a fishin' pole"

and of course his family.

[cardinalblue]

In my years of living in Thailand my quality of life was higher than had I been working in my home country...one can find a niche and do things not available at the same rate in their home country...

That said there are valid reasons why thailand is ranked by the WHO and other organizations in that overall 60 - 70 country ranking across env social economic health and political factors...over the last 30 years thailand's progress has been stuck in that the newly developed country label and seemed to have reached their full potential in growth and development...

[Robert24]

I recommend 2 things that hopefully helps people stay positive:

1) travel regularly outside of Thailand which helps you keep things in perspective.

2) stay busy, be it open a business, get a job, take care of Children whatever it may be. I can ensure you if you are busy, you will be much happier than when you don't know what to do with your time.

[Shaunduhpostman]

Simplistic, shallow, negative and dismissive. The Op is adopting a paranoid and defensive stance of someone who just adds to the problem. If someone's negativity is contagious then by extension you shouldn't watch movies or listen to music or read anything or look at an ugly picture or someone with poor taste in clothing! Any of that might be construed as negative. How ridiculous.

So what if you had to listen to someone bitching? So you become unhappy for two minutes or two hours or rare cases two days, in any case eventually you get over it. Perhaps you need to ask yourself, why does this person's complaint bother me? If the complaint isn't justified, what's the problem? Let it go, it is bs. If the complaint is legitimate, then also, again, what is the problem? It might be someone trying to be helpful or asking for help. What's wrong with that?

How many of these people afflicted with expatitis could there be in Chiang Rai? I can't imagine there are any more unpleasant westerners there than back in Scrumfield, West Newfoundland. What is the issue? Are you suggesting that we get into a brand new kind of snit all the time worrying that someone or something will infect us with ex-patitis? Sounds like a recipe for unhappiness to me.

I think we can find a good side to all the whiners and unhappy ex-pats. They are not just garbage. Not to me anyway. They all have something worthwhile to say and have had many experiences and I am sure have had a rich and colorful life and in many cases continue to do so. The OP seems to be none too interested in any of that. Jealousy issues? Just a bit too thick to get your head around any of it or sort the wheat from the chaff? Too hung up by your upbringing to accept others who are differnt maybe? It also seems he is suggesting that we just throw anyone away in the garbage that we don't like and that's all it is at the end of the day, just about not liking people. And liking people or not is just your subjective opinion nothing more, it is not grounds to start some kind of a boycott.

Of course, you need to take care of number one first, but surely we are not all so personally/emotionally/spiritually impoverished and ungenerous that we can't at least try and see our fellow men who are down and out with more interest than just brushing them off and saying they have expatitis. Of course the internet and all the amazing things to see and do in Thailand and all the wonderfull perfect people here who are so much nicer and more charming than westerners don't leave you any time to try and see Mr. Grouchy The Grumpuss' heart of gold still there even after he spent all his money in Nana plaza 10 years ago. So what if he did, it's actually funny on a certain level.

I personally like much of the caterwauling on here or anywhere I hear it and do it myself. It isn't all negative. The squeaky wheel gets the oil and we re surrounded by a society that has been forbidden to even constructively complain and that just enables more injustice and pain. People have a right to be negative and complain. It doesn't just come out of thin air.

[Lissos]

"Familiarity breeds contempt", a saying that I reckon sums this whole thing up.

Once foreigners get too famliar with Thailand and Thais ways (for better or worse), it seems to be a human trait to focus more on the negatives that then become an amplified irritant in daily life. I apply the same to Thai perception of foreigners. None of us are a novelty anymore. We come in masses each year, they become more and more familiar with us and in doing so the negative irritants on them about things we do (or don't do) grow. For this reason I agree with Robert24's recommendation in a way, in my case being that I dont' settle in Thailand. I visit it, and usually some years apart. Even doing so, I noticed the focus on negatives creeping in as I became more and more familiar with things. Its gonna happen. i can think of countries I used to go to each year, which then suddenly ceased. Occasionally that initial magic can be revived by visiting again years later, but not always. Observations mentioned in the article, I recognise from speaking to expats not only in Thailand but in other parts of the world. It is just the way of things.

[rct99q]

Just curious now. If say a Thai passport holder had the same freedom of movement as say a UK, US, AUS or Cad does how many Thai spouses would stay in Thailand. My wife and children have moved back to the West and she loves it. No turning back for her I think. Great for the kids, he loves how "modern" things are, but the only slight drawback is the extended family. I have a wonderful set of in laws who believe it or not I miss seeing, but my wife still prefers it here.

Although getting a visa was not all that difficult for us i know some expats who have either tried and unsuccesful or have not bothered to try.

My son who carries an irish passport has said he would prefer to not return to Thailand as well. He loves school, the girls love his asian/farang mixed look, and he even prefers western food over Thai food.

Maybe we are not the norm but i suspect that given the chance of freedom of movement more mixed families would move back to the west.

[BudRight]

What would someone think if this article was written about US immigrants? That they were a nationalist prig?

This is basically a way to tell people to 'shut up' for failing to notice the glorious, delusional perfection that is Thailand.

I hope you all get a gold star before you're deported.

[Altalake]

We have been in Asia on and off for more than 40 years and my wife (Caucasian) was brought up in Malaysia. We have been pretty well all over SE Asia and frankly Phuket is our favourite. The People make it so for us - sense of humour and the food is tops.

But it is becoming very expensive tho' - however, where else would one go? Bali? Penang? No sir, not for us.

[poweratradio]

A lot of the ranters love to attack "the Thai Chinese" and/or "hi-so" and attribute their wealth to being corrupt scammers, etc.

Yet these same ranters have been scammed by their in-laws from Isaan, etc. who are not the "hi-so" Thai Chinese.

Not just ranters but envious ranters, if you ask me...

Seem to recall from years ago that the majority of members claimed to be married to Chinese Thais. In fact declared most were PHDs, champion athletes, beauty queens and company directors.

Not only that but their skins were so white that whitening creams actually made them darker.

As to the bedroom, don't even go there.

Now as to the OP, some good advice there.

Theyre still around, with the my wife is well educated line.

Isn't a Thai University Bachelor of Arts degree considered well educated. Student loans start in Middle school and continue through University to help the family. Thought every girl here has a B.A. or a Masters which is how the salaries are dictated.

[poweratradio]

Personally, I find the 'head in the sand' brigade more annoying than the whiners. There is nothing wrong in seeing a place for what it is, to walk around with blinkers on makes people appear none too clever and somewhat in denial. The author of the article sounds like a bitter person himself, and etiquette is a word usually associated with politeness, so completely misused in the context that he chose for it.

The most miserable expats here are the ones who seem to have no interests. The happiest have at least 3 interests, perhaps 1 sporting and 2 intellectual. And often a full time job on top of that. Too much time on your hands is a big problem. Highest points on the misery index always go to the alcoholics and the old sex-pats. Those two groups just seem to be caught in a nightmare cycle of despair.

Your views are your own for sure but as of this writing I see 7 others agree with you but I am afraid your head is also in the sand.

[AloisAmrein]

I really do not see any valuable reason for settling down in Thailand, despite the fact that my wife is Thai. Why should I live in a country that:

• is a military dictatorship
• has no press and media freedom
• has Internet censored
• has bad living quality, even in socalled tourist centres (Pattaya, Phuket etc.)
• does not have a good educational system
• has no conscience about environmental issues, garbage everywhere
• has one of the highet road mortality in the world
• threats foreigners mainly as a walking bank
• has no International cuisine, except in BKK and CNX
• is becoming more dangerous every year
• has very restrict immigration laws, every European country is better
• does not grant residency for husbands of Thai wife
• is racist in a large extent against all foreigners, regardless if from other Asian countries or from the West

I prefer to live in Europe, beautiful, nice, save, high living quality etc.

When I visit Thailand, I stay a few days then I move on to Laos, much nicer and friendlier.

[Luxfare]

I really do not see any valuable reason for settling down in Thailand, despite the fact that my wife is Thai. Why should I live in a country that:

• is a military dictatorship
• has no press and media freedom
• has Internet censored
• has bad living quality, even in socalled tourist centres (Pattaya, Phuket etc.)
• does not have a good educational system
• has no conscience about environmental issues, garbage everywhere
• has one of the highet road mortality in the world
• threats foreigners mainly as a walking bank
• has no International cuisine, except in BKK and CNX
• is becoming more dangerous every year
• has very restrict immigration laws, every European country is better
• does not grant residency for husbands of Thai wife
• is racist in a large extent against all foreigners, regardless if from other Asian countries or from the West

I prefer to live in Europe, beautiful, nice, save, high living quality etc.

When I visit Thailand, I stay a few days then I move on to Laos, much nicer and friendlier.

Europe?? The same Europe that allows free borders, corrupt EU officials, took a major part in the illegal invasion of Iraq and has a massive uprising of far right political parties gaining votes?? That same Europe? Yeah sounds like a haven of morals and fairness.

[Thomas Hannah]

When there is something good to talk about thailand.Then people will change there conversations.The problem is.Its getting worse.and will never get better.I have walked away and gone elsewere.Now my conversations are only grumpy.when someone mentions thailand.

[DogNo1]

Is expatitis something like foxnewsitis or EIBitis (Rush Limbaugh)? It seems that in many places, negative bashing of people really sells. Many years ago I read Karl Popper's " All Life is Problem Solving." I think that it's helped me to understand that life's events are actually problems to be dealt with. Some of them are dismaying but if you can figure out how to solve them with the least unpleasantness to yourself and others, you will probably be pleased with the result. I am when I solve a problem smoothly.

[MJP]

Have wholesome interests and wholesome friends. Keep busy, productive and positive. Avoid vices. Don't drop your guard and don't get drawn into scams or the wrong circles. Never flaunt wealth, it will attract problems and hazards. Don't bother trying to keep up with the Jones', find fulfillment in simple pleasures.

Never commit more than you can afford to lose and above all never get trapped there, always have a way out.

Drive a Volvo or a large lorry or something like that. Something with lots of crash protection.

[redandyellow]

its the crumpet that drags them down into despair ,things never pan out as well as they would like due to the money demands that leave them potless

With women anywhere, nothing ever pans out as well as you would like.

Perhaps you personally need to sample a much larger sample size, before you attempt to Blanket Policy over 3 Billion people, and tar them with the same brush in one fell swoop.

A lot of us found a great one, right here in Thailand believe it or not, like Costas for example, who may have fallen slightly out of favor in some eyes, for his OWN little Blanket Policy - on Thai men recently .

Signed,

The Bias and the Reality

[Broeno]

The mind-body connection can help you too. Smile and walk in a happy way and you can lift yourself up. Think positively and your face and body will reflect that happiness. Fake it until you make it.

Your glass must be really half empty, but you fake its half full. Keep on faking untill reality catches up with you.

Keep on projecting your opinion to others untill your glass is empty.

Maybe there is hope for you as farang philosopher.

[fey]

I've traveled to over sixty countries and been an expat in several third-world countries ... and there's always a significant amount of bitter whining expats. I don't know that Thailand has a lot more or if I just see a concentration on tv.com.

So have I. But I have also used the internet since its inception, and am able to realise that most website posters don't really post what their true motions are. In fact, I'd go one further: the majority of posters post for fun, for reaction, to test their own knowledge, learn about things they never have before, and don't represent true colours of what is really happening. I see you didn't learn as much as you thought you did about your perception of whining, of what is real or not on the internet, and your own perspectives gained from the internet. Good Luck - especially in your final country - prob back home to the US I believe, seeing as us Brits spell travelled correctly, with 2 'l's.

Edit: Why did I pick up on your Americanism? You are generalising all ex-pats living in Thailand into one box, as per your own perception. Think about that, and recognise how wrong you are (recognize - if you didn't understand the latter).

could also be plants posting to keep people viewing ads

[redandyellow]

I completely agree with this article. It really is time to leave the bitter and twisted outlook in the past. It seems that even on this forum some are simply not happy no matter what happens and in fact the statement "They actually want Thailand to be corrupt or in an economic downturn or experience other problems" resinates with me because that way they can justify their distain for the military and say "I told you so" They want to hard for the Thai people to suffer and for the economy to fail just so they can say those 4 simple words.

I stand shoulder to shoulder with my family who stands shoulder to shoulder with our village who do not share any bitter and twisted outlook. They see a bright future and see the positive in Thai life. Thai or farang we share the same view that Thailand is a great place to live and has been shown the corruption is declining and the country has a bright future ahead of it.

Lets hope the bitter and twisted see the glass as half full in the future and remember we do want corruption to reduce and the economy to improve no matter who is attributed to the success of it.

Look no further than the following examples of what the bitter and twisted say.

If the Junta did not hold a trail for yinglucks impeachment the comments would be “This is a feature of most totalitarian regimes”. When they do hold a trail the comments are “Show trial - a feature of most totalitarian regimes”

When the Junta do not offer social security for poor families with children the comments are “The Junta do not care about the poor” When the do introduce it the comments are “That'a a dozen more pints of Lao Kao for Pa!”

When the Junta remove 5 students at a speech in Khon Kaen the comments are “they will never be seen again” When they are seen again and free without charge the comments are “only let go because the Jurassic junta did not appreciate that the clip of them being removed by gun toting thugs would go viral world wide so quickly I expect”

When the Junta say they wont have a referendum for the constitution the comments were “This is typical of a military take over where the voice of the people is squashed” When the Junta change there stance and have a referendum for the constitution the comments are “This will be a rigged referendum and all will be forced to vote yes”

When Prayut and his team did not declare assets the comments were “The PTP are way more democratic and transparent because they did declare their assets”. When Prayut and his team do declare their assets the sarcastic comments are “No doubt all those outstanding members of society have earned their money through hard labor and honesty”.

Before the Junta arrest one of their own the comments are "The Junta are corrupted and would never arrest within their own ranks" When the Junta arrest one of their own. It is a PR stunt.

If the police chief was not reinstated it would be a conspiracy by the DEM's and the courts. When he is, it is nepotism.

When the Junta found a small amount of weapons it was "An insignificant weapons find" When they found 10% of all weapons finds in 14 years it is "A fake news story".

Before the Junta paid the rice farmers it was "They don't care about the farmers" When they paid the farmers it was "They are a populist Junta"

Time to see the good in Thailand and Thai's. The majority of Thai's heart is in the right place and they only want to see a bright peaceful and happy future. That is an outlook that some farangs need to adopt as well.

Trust you Jamie to make this political and spew your sycophantic nonsense.

You're like clockwork.

I respect your view point no matter how condescending it may be.

When faced with the stark illogical thought processes of those that made those comments (which come directly from TVF members) that reply is to be expected. It is simply unable to be rebutted.

Have a lovely evening my friend.

Jamie I have refuted your claims in other threads only to be met by silence or your posts end up getting deleted (I wonder Why)

This thread is full of posts talking about their personal feelings and connections to this wonderful country. Yours was the first properly political one. It's really not the place for it.

You do make this place interesting though I'll give you that! Enjoy your weekend sir

And the winner is....kiss your sister! ( A Draw )

Signed,

A Mexican Standoff