Expatitis in Thailand, Is Your Glass Half Empty or Half Full?

[BB24]

This article has been great to follow today - 2 reasons:

1. Read good stories of how some Expats live and have stayed positive about the place/people (despite some bad experiences and their 'differences'); and

2. Have added a record number of names to my 'ignore list' from just one OP - and hoping to add some more later

[John Kane]

I had a big advantage when I came to Thailand because I lived for three years in Albania, two in the Dominican Republic, and a few months in Vietnam. Each had horrible disadvantages, but some great things to say about them too. So I was prepared for much worse than Thailand will ever have to offer me. I have seen real trash, really bad drivers, and horrible healthcare. In many ways Thailand still looks like a paradise. Before coming here new expats would benefit from exposure to other countries poorer than Thailand, in my opinion.

[KarenBravo]

There are thieves , corrupt officials, crooked police, scam artist, drug dealers, discrimination, double standards in every part of the World. There is no difference.

Yes there is. In the countries that most of us come from, if these miscreants are caught, they go through a legal system that actually functions and then, if they are found guilty, they are punished.

[balo]

The first thing you should know moving here is that you can't teach Thais anything even if theire wrong. If you can live with that and just keep smiling and live your life then fine.

Some of us want to do something about it, we want to pick up the trash on the beaches and roads, the locals don't care .

We want to install a proper and safe hot water tank connected to ground to avoid a future electrocution, the locals don't care or don't want to learn how to do the job properly, We think too much ?

We have the knowledge but Thais will not listen, Because this is Thailand, show respect for the culture and people and live your life , ignore the dangers, if you can.

[hawker9000]

)

This article has been great to follow today - 2 reasons:

1. Read good stories of how some Expats live and have stayed positive about the place/people (despite some bad experiences and their 'differences'); and

2. Have added a record number of names to my 'ignore list' from just one OP - and hoping to add some more later

" 2. Have added a record number of names to my 'ignore list' from just one OP - and hoping to add some more later "

The weird goals some people set for themselves... But, emm, err, uh, yeah! Well done!

(Psst. I can tell you how to edit your HOSTS file and, get this, block TV entirely!! Won't that be neat?? YEAH baby!!! Just think. Never have to worry about reading something you don't agree with on here again! Sooo cool! I can only imagine your excitement...)

[micmichd]

555

The best scam artists are Farang politicians.

[gemguy]

• Advanced Members
• 5,143 posts

Posted Today, 11:32

It's easy to form negative impressions of Thais in general. The easiest thing to dislike about them is that they don't live in an authentic experience with others. They are generally deceitful in all aspects of their relationships. To the outsider, this is not understandable. The foreigner or expat also has a negative view of Thais for their lack of responsibility and commitment. They reneg on business deals and personal promises. They manipulate the facts to suit their self absorbed interests. Thais don't read, they are not interested in classical art, music or world history.

Thais generally have little or no awareness of western culture. They live in a total state of denial about their society and its reality. They have little or no intellectual curiosity or passion about much. They have little work ethic and their sense of value is most limited to material things and money. Just look at the way Thais splay out money at any event. Random acts of truthfulness and honesty are big news in the Thai press. Thais love secrecy, exclusion, and opaqueness in society, business, and life in general. Thais rarely if ever take responsibility and never say I'm sorry, I made a mistake. When expats get together, it's easy to complain about Thais because something has always just happened that has them shaking their heads about Thais. Expats who don't complain about Thais are living in the same false reality and unauthentic life experience. Expats who never complain about Thais or Thailand are being deceitful to themselves or they've become Thai thinking in a land where Thais will never accept them for who they really are.

When it comes to Thai bashing, you take first place. You sound like a very disturbed person. I hope you get some much needed help!

There is a whole lot of truth about what he listed concerning the mentality and character of the Thais in general.

If you stay here long enough and or do business everyday with the Thai women and men you will come to understand the underlying truth of what is said in the mans post.

Cheers

[wow64]

Expatitis is in glasses?

I am only using bottles now.

Sent from my c64

[Luxfare]

The author is named "Editor".

Most cynical expats of a certain age in Chiang Mai, and a few bar owners, know him, and his twin sister, all too well.

Editor is an unemployed, work permit free, 20 something digital nomad cum blogger cum web content developer on a part-time spiritual journey to, quote, "find myself". You've likely seen around CM taking photos of soi dogs, eating sweet sticky rice & mango and wai'ing small children on the street.

Editor sat on his duff at ______ beer bar and 6 hours later, submitted this desperate, tired old chestnut to his exploitative, but equally desperate, editor at Chiang Mai rag online.

After 6 hours of free WIFI, Editor "check bin'ed" a total of 1 small Leo and 6 free buckets of ice, asked the miserable old expats for advice how to do his first tourist visa border run, then left the bar without even leaving a measly 20 Baht tip for Nok.

Quality tourists who've done more for Thailand in two weeks than all the miserable old gits who live here ever have.

I'm a 30 something, have a work permit, very likely to pay more tax than the cynics and agree with most of what the OP has written.

[Thian]

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Personally, I find the 'head in the sand' brigade more annoying than the whiners. There is nothing wrong in seeing a place for what it is, to walk around with blinkers on makes people appear none too clever and somewhat in denial. The author of the article sounds like a bitter person himself, and etiquette is a word usually associated with politeness, so completely misused in the context that he chose for it.
The most miserable expats here are the ones who seem to have no interests. The happiest have at least 3 interests, perhaps 1 sporting and 2 intellectual. And often a full time job on top of that. Too much time on your hands is a big problem. Highest points on the misery index always go to the alcoholics and the old sex-pats. Those two groups just seem to be caught in a nightmare cycle of despair.

What a load of rubbish. Im retired at 47 have loads of time of my hands and love life and the people and the family around me. I have my 8 dogs and studio and drum room as interests and met my thai wife in the UK so can hardly be described as a sexpat as you put it. I have a standard of living I could only dream of back in the UK. If anyone is bitter it sounds like yourself. I dont need the money to work so choose to live me life as I wish. Now I know your comments were not directed at me but your generalisation is way off the mark. I know of many expats like me who love it here. Im not in denial nor do I walk around with blinkers on. Is it perfect? No such thing as perfect but compared to living in the UK? No contest. Thailand wins hands down.

Exactly, you have many interests. My case in point. And I only suggested that the sex-pats were the unhappiest people here, not that everyone here is a sex-pat.

Sure not everyone here is a sex-pat but unfortunately that's the general opinion outside of Thailand.

Real expats will think twice before marrying a Thai lady because of this. Thailand sure isn't a bad place to live but it needs police who do their job. I've never seen police on patrol and giving fines to any offenders, they only stand at checkpoints along the roads.

[Luxfare]

.......With that said.....this forum is full of negative people that have nothing better to do then criticize Thailand, the government, the people, their way of

life, and the stupid things they see. If you don't like it LEAVE! NO ONE ASKED, for your negative comments. To many instances I see where some of you gang up on another OP. Some of you old timers no what I mean. There is an old saying, which holds some truths. "If you can't say something nice to someone, its best not to say anything at all.".......My glass is not half empty, or half full.............its reached an equilibrium state.

What a strange half assed post. OK lets all say yippy to everything the Thai's do because we are living in their country.

One way of making sure nothing ever gets better is to never complain about anything.

Holes in the pavements, no problem, bikes on the pavement, no problem, 26,000 people killed on the roads every year, no problem... Its all good no ?

But you're not seeing the bigger picture. I'm from the UK and our pavements are better than here in BKK fair enough...but what would you say if the Thais said " ok we'll fix the pavements but you'll have to pay 6,000thb a month council tax like they do in the UK"?....=then you'll get those who complain about the council tax. It's the same with the Police and Taxis.....they're underpaid and therefore you get inferior service to that of our own nations where we pay more for "the service". I'd happily pay an extra 5-6,000thb a month in tax for an incorruptible police and nice pavements.....would Pattaya Pete living on a pension be happy to pay it? I'm guessing no.

[PeCeDe]

Why are white people expats when the rest of us are immigrants?

In the lexicon of human migration there are still hierarchical words, created with the purpose of putting white people above everyone else. One of those remnants is the word “expat”.

What is an expat? And who is an expat? According to Wikipedia, “an expatriate (often shortened to expat) is a person temporarily or permanently residing in a country other than that of the person’s upbringing. The word comes from the Latin terms ex (‘out of’) and patria (‘country, fatherland’)”.

Defined that way, you should expect that any person going to work outside of his or her country for a period of time would be an expat, regardless of his skin colour or country. But that is not the case in reality; expat is a term reserved exclusively for western white people going to work abroad.

Africans are immigrants. Arabs are immigrants. Asians are immigrants. However, Europeans are expats because they can’t be at the same level as other ethnicities. They are superior. Immigrants is a term set aside for ‘inferior races’.

Don’t take my word for it. The Wall Street Journal, the leading financial information magazine in the world, has a blog dedicated to the life of expats and recently they featured a story ‘Who is an expat, anyway?’. Here are the main conclusions: “Some arrivals are described as expats; others as immigrants; and some simply as migrants. It depends on social class, country of origin and economic status. It’s strange to hear some people in Hong Kong described as expats, but not others. Anyone with roots in a western country is considered an expat … Filipino domestic helpers are just guests, even if they’ve been here for decades. Mandarin-speaking mainland Chinese are rarely regarded as expats … It’s a double standard woven into official policy.”

Is there any space in the development debate for African experts?

The reality is the same in Africa and Europe. Top African professionals going to work in Europe are not considered expats. They are immigrants. Period. “I work for multinational organisations both in the private and public sectors. And being black or coloured doesn’t gain me the term “expat”. I’m a highly qualified immigrant, as they call me, to be politically correct,” says an African migrant worker.

Most white people deny that they enjoy the privileges of a racist system. And why not? But our responsibility is to point out and to deny them these privileges, directly related to an outdated supremacist ideology. If you see those “expats” in Africa, call them immigrants like everyone else. If that hurts their white superiority, they can jump in the air and stay there. The political deconstruction of this outdated worldview must continue.

You are of course right in much of what you say... But don't paint everyone with the same brush. I don't care what you call me "Ex-Pat" is fine, Immigrant is also OK. Limey B...d, Yankee etc.I've been called everything under the Sun, and it doesn't hurt one iota.. I am what I am, genuinely sorry for what my ancestors did, but I sure as hell am not responsible for what they did. Now you have a world where people can be equal, go enjoy it.

[gandalf12]

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Personally, I find the 'head in the sand' brigade more annoying than the whiners. There is nothing wrong in seeing a place for what it is, to walk around with blinkers on makes people appear none too clever and somewhat in denial. The author of the article sounds like a bitter person himself, and etiquette is a word usually associated with politeness, so completely misused in the context that he chose for it.
The most miserable expats here are the ones who seem to have no interests. The happiest have at least 3 interests, perhaps 1 sporting and 2 intellectual. And often a full time job on top of that. Too much time on your hands is a big problem. Highest points on the misery index always go to the alcoholics and the old sex-pats. Those two groups just seem to be caught in a nightmare cycle of despair.

What a load of rubbish. Im retired at 47 have loads of time of my hands and love life and the people and the family around me. I have my 8 dogs and studio and drum room as interests and met my thai wife in the UK so can hardly be described as a sexpat as you put it. I have a standard of living I could only dream of back in the UK. If anyone is bitter it sounds like yourself. I dont need the money to work so choose to live me life as I wish. Now I know your comments were not directed at me but your generalisation is way off the mark. I know of many expats like me who love it here. Im not in denial nor do I walk around with blinkers on. Is it perfect? No such thing as perfect but compared to living in the UK? No contest. Thailand wins hands down.

Exactly, you have many interests. My case in point. And I only suggested that the sex-pats were the unhappiest people here, not that everyone here is a sex-pat.

Sure not everyone here is a sex-pat but unfortunately that's the general opinion outside of Thailand.

Real expats will think twice before marrying a Thai lady because of this. Thailand sure isn't a bad place to live but it needs police who do their job. I've never seen police on patrol and giving fines to any offenders, they only stand at checkpoints along the roads.

Real expats like myself who have lived all over the world and in Thailand for 30 years dont care what other people think. After all we are not responsible for their limited view of the world

[Beetlejuice]

Here, there, everywhere, life is what we make it.

True to a point. But sometimes there are circumstances and other people that throw spanners into the works, no matter where we are.

[ggt]

George you do need to buy a new pair of glasses...maybe you could start a support group to sit around and lie to each other about how wonderful Thailand and the Thai really are...

[Beetlejuice]

""""It's easy to form negative impressions of Thais in general. The easiest thing to dislike about them is that they don't live in an authentic experience with others. They are generally deceitful in all aspects of their relationships. To the outsider, this is not understandable. The foreigner or expat also has a negative view of Thais for their lack of responsibility and commitment. They reneg on business deals and personal promises. They manipulate the facts to suit their self absorbed interests. Thais don't read, they are not interested in classical art, music or world history.

Thais generally have little or no awareness of western culture. They live in a total state of denial about their society and its reality. They have little or no intellectual curiosity or passion about much. They have little work ethic and their sense of value is most limited to material things and money. Just look at the way Thais splay out money at any event. Random acts of truthfulness and honesty are big news in the Thai press. Thais love secrecy, exclusion, and opaqueness in society, business, and life in general. Thais rarely if ever take responsibility and never say I'm sorry, I made a mistake. When expats get together, it's easy to complain about Thais because something has always just happened that has them shaking their heads about Thais. Expats who don't complain about Thais are living in the same false reality and unauthentic life experience. Expats who never complain about Thais or Thailand are being deceitful to themselves or they've become Thai thinking in a land where Thais will never accept them for who they really are.""""

One of the best analysis of Thai people I ever read and the conclusion is right on. Even my Thai wife and family say wow that is right on!

I try VERY hard to like the Thais I try but Im continually disappointed mainly for the above reasons I cannot and will not accept the lies/half truths and crap they often spew.

You are another one of those oppressed and persecuted ex-pats living in Thailand who believes everything in Thailand is against you.

Cannot understand why you people, the long and suffering stay here? As regards lies and crap, I don`t consider Thailand as being exceptional in that department more than anywhere else. Perhaps you should consider a change of scenery?

[timendres]

In the fine words of The Beatles: "You'd better free your mind instead".

As a previous poster so perfectly stated: You get out of it what you put into it.

And as my not so eloquent father always liked to say: That guy will always F$%@ Up a wet dream.

Every expat needs to remember that they are a foreigner in Thailand, and this adds some complexity to life. Plan and prepare and that complexity will be made simpler. Spend time learning the language and the culture. This will make you smarter and allow you to enjoy your life here more. And have realistic expectations, which will reduce your disappointments. And finally, if for whatever reasons, you find that you are just not happy living here, then accept it and make plans to try some place new.

[jdinasia]

If I took the advice in the OP of avoiding negativity, I could never log into TVF again.

[Robby nz]

Just got back from a good feed of Rat Na for 30b, in 15 minutes a cake will come out of the rice cooker.

Tomorrow we go to a national park for 4 days, then a week after we get back, to Kanchanaburi and Sangklaburi with friends from NZ, with a couple of days at another national park on the way home.

Then a week after that we fly down to Ranong and on a boat out to Koh Chang for 4 days by the sea.

2 weeks after that another 4 days in a different national park.

And can manage all that on a pension.

My cup runneth over as the saying goes.

Another one for you grouches, Smile and Thailand smiles with you.

[PeCeDe]

Just got back from a good feed of Rat Na for 30b, in 15 minutes a cake will come out of the rice cooker.

Tomorrow we go to a national park for 4 days, then a week after we get back, to Kanchanaburi and Sangklaburi with friends from NZ, with a couple of days at another national park on the way home.

Then a week after that we fly down to Ranong and on a boat out to Koh Chang for 4 days by the sea.

2 weeks after that another 4 days in a different national park.

And can manage all that on a pension.

My cup runneth over as the saying goes.

Another one for you grouches, Smile and Thailand smiles with you.

Oh Man, don't forget the 72 virgins when you croak, It's so nice to hear of good things happening to obviously good people.

[mikeinbangkok]

A well written article and to the point. Life is all about choices we made and the decisions that we take. I have lived in Thailand as an expatriate for 20 years. I have had a wonderful experience, my family is happy, we had a very comfortable life. I have numerous friends from different parts of the world who, like me have lived here for many years and appreciate the good things. As an International company, we have never had any shortage of applicants for any vacant position that would be available. So much so, our company, once even had to force long staying expatriates to move to other locations so that new comers could have a chance to work here in Thailand.

Of course you have negatives, like anywhere else. I have lived in several countries and we have experienced problems that we have not experienced in Thailand.

The Thai people have treated us with respect, taken care of me and my family and our company is very happy to have operations here. Most of us have purchased apartments here where we live which is proof of our contentment and living conditions here.

So the glass , even if not full, has never been empty. Wherever you go, I doubt of you could find a full glass. C'est la vie! Such is life...

[lvr181]

Is there a "heaven" or only places to live, with different warts and all?

[PeCeDe]

A well written article and to the point. Life is all about choices we made and the decisions that we take. I have lived in Thailand as an expatriate for 20 years. I have had a wonderful experience, my family is happy, we had a very comfortable life. I have numerous friends from different parts of the world who, like me have lived here for many years and appreciate the good things. As an International company, we have never had any shortage of applicants for any vacant position that would be available. So much so, our company, once even had to force long staying expatriates to move to other locations so that new comers could have a chance to work here in Thailand.

Of course you have negatives, like anywhere else. I have lived in several countries and we have experienced problems that we have not experienced in Thailand.

The Thai people have treated us with respect, taken care of me and my family and our company is very happy to have operations here. Most of us have purchased apartments here where we live which is proof of our contentment and living conditions here.

So the glass , even if not full, has never been empty. Wherever you go, I doubt of you could find a full glass. C'est la vie! Such is life..

Your glass is definitely full, maybe even flowing over, and more power to you! Congratulations, "C'est La Vie" doesn't quite describe what you have, perhaps more like you worked damned hard to get what you have, and are reaping the rewards. I have found nothing but respect from the Thai people, and love them every day.

[Robby nz]

Just got back from a good feed of Rat Na for 30b, in 15 minutes a cake will come out of the rice cooker.

Tomorrow we go to a national park for 4 days, then a week after we get back, to Kanchanaburi and Sangklaburi with friends from NZ, with a couple of days at another national park on the way home.

Then a week after that we fly down to Ranong and on a boat out to Koh Chang for 4 days by the sea.

2 weeks after that another 4 days in a different national park.

And can manage all that on a pension.

My cup runneth over as the saying goes.

Another one for you grouches, Smile and Thailand smiles with you.

Oh Man, don't forget the 72 virgins when you croak, It's so nice to hear of good things happening to obviously good people.

Don't expect or need the virgins, one ex virgin is enough for me, oh yea, and a camera and a fishing pole.

[Benmart]

This is all well and good but some of us here encounter situations that make one despair. I am heavily involved with cycle-sport here. I am a coach trainer, in a personal voluntary and free capacity, to Thai kids. I have spent five years trying to help them progress in this sport as much as I can. This year the Thai Cycling Association has defied their undertaking to the Union Cycliste Internationale and to the Olympic movement by introducing higher fees to 'farangs' for their UCI cycle racing/coaching licence. Under UCI rules the country in which you live MUST provide you with this licence. However this year the TCA want to charge 'farangs' 5 x more than Thais. This is against Article 3 of the UCI as well as the Olympic Charter's articles on equality. They also want proof of residence (fair enough) except when that proof is provided they still will not issue the licence. Why? The Thais are fed up of the foreign riders here some of whom (not me) are stronger than the Thais. Thus when UCI ranking points are on offer, the Thais don't get them all. Their answer a) doctor the results so that no foreigner appears on the official results that the UCI receives (easily checked as the podium pics and the official results don't match) and deny them a race licence. When I see this unsporting practice and the extent to which the Thais go to cheat and lie their way through my beloved sport, I just want to call it a day. If anyone tries to speak to the Police General who is the TCA's head honcho, then he just cuts the call. My Thai wife is also appalled at how Thai society (in her view) has deteriorated and people, she says, are more dishonest than ever, more greedy than ever and so on. Our house is for sale. When someone buys it, we'll go. Enough is enough.

A very unfortunate story and sad to hear that.

This is Thailand's loss and such incidents are probably not the exception. Unfortunately, lying, cheating, greed, extorting; doping, prejudice, bigotry, payoffs and bribes are world-wide practices.

God luck to wherever your travels take you and yours.

[twozeds]

"It's easy to form negative impressions of Thais in general. The easiest thing to dislike about them is that they don't live in an authentic experience with others. They are generally deceitful in all aspects of their relationships. To the outsider, this is not understandable. The foreigner or expat also has a negative view of Thais for their lack of responsibility and commitment. They reneg on business deals and personal promises. They manipulate the facts to suit their self absorbed interests. Thais don't read, they are not interested in classical art, music or world history.

Thais generally have little or no awareness of western culture. They live in a total state of denial about their society and its reality. They have little or no intellectual curiosity or passion about much. They have little work ethic and their sense of value is most limited to material things and money. Just look at the way Thais splay out money at any event. Random acts of truthfulness and honesty are big news in the Thai press. Thais love secrecy, exclusion, and opaqueness in society, business, and life in general. Thais rarely if ever take responsibility and never say I'm sorry, I made a mistake. When expats get together, it's easy to complain about Thais because something has always just happened that has them shaking their heads about Thais. Expats who don't complain about Thais are living in the same false reality and unauthentic life experience. Expats who never complain about Thais or Thailand are being deceitful to themselves or they've become Thai thinking in a land where Thais will never accept them for who they really are."

​well stated…have to agree on this one

[sirineou]

Very insightful

" Finally, these bitter, sad expats rejoice in problems or difficulties that Thailand or Thai people experience. They actually want Thailand to be corrupt or in an economic downturn or experience other problems. Then the expat can laugh a bitter angry laugh and say, “See, just what I told you.”

It is really a human coping mechanism designed to deflect blame from once self and direct it towards others

[mikeinbangkok]

A well written article and to the point. Life is all about choices we made and the decisions that we take. I have lived in Thailand as an expatriate for 20 years. I have had a wonderful experience, my family is happy, we had a very comfortable life. I have numerous friends from different parts of the world who, like me have lived here for many years and appreciate the good things. As an International company, we have never had any shortage of applicants for any vacant position that would be available. So much so, our company, once even had to force long staying expatriates to move to other locations so that new comers could have a chance to work here in Thailand.

Of course you have negatives, like anywhere else. I have lived in several countries and we have experienced problems that we have not experienced in Thailand.

The Thai people have treated us with respect, taken care of me and my family and our company is very happy to have operations here. Most of us have purchased apartments here where we live which is proof of our contentment and living conditions here.

So the glass , even if not full, has never been empty. Wherever you go, I doubt of you could find a full glass. C'est la vie ! Such is life...

[micmichd]

Very insightful

" Finally, these bitter, sad expats rejoice in problems or difficulties that Thailand or Thai people experience. They actually want Thailand to be corrupt or in an economic downturn or experience other problems. Then the expat can laugh a bitter angry laugh and say, See, just what I told you.

It is really a human coping mechanism designed to deflect blame from once self and direct it towards others

[The Deerhunter]

If you can fake sincerity, you've got it made. That's an old on. Was surprised to not find it in the OP. It was nearly there. "Fake it til you make it."